Re: [Climate Activists-SC] In California, Cap-and-Trade = Environmental Injustice but cap and share is different, GREAT AND JUST
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V Jacobi
Dec 20, 2019, 1:50:05 AM12/20/19
to Mark Mortensen, Osc_earth Action, ClimateActivists-SC@googlegroups com
thanks Mark for the added cap and share details, well said. So folks who use very little energy, by choice ideally, or due to the limits of their finances, can have more money available for other things
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"Climate Change is not just another issue in this complicated world of
proliferating issues. It is the issue that, unchecked, will swamp all other issues."
Warmly,
"Climate Change is not just another issue in this complicated world of
proliferating issues. It is the issue that, unchecked, will swamp all other issues."
- Ross Gelbspan in The Heat Is On
On 2019-12-19 22:34, Mark Mortensen wrote:
Right. James Hansen recommends, as do others, a fee and dividend approach such as what is seen in Alaska (for very different purposes, but same principle). A fee and dividend (carbon gets charged a fee per ton at the point of extraction, such as mine or well, and the fees are distributed to taxpayers to offset the increased costs due to the dividend. Essentially, it puts a price on carbon, which we need to do, but also provides money to citizens to offset the increased costs passed on by the increased cost of products with carbon in it.
On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 6:00 PM V Jacobi <vja...@sonic.net> wrote:however, cap and dividend or cap and share/pay is different from cap and trade
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Warmly,Roni
www.OurGreenChallenge.org
"Climate Change is not just another issue in this complicated world of
proliferating issues. It is the issue that, unchecked, will swamp all other issues."- Ross Gelbspan in The Heat Is On
On 2019-12-19 13:38, Kamran Nayeri wrote:
👍
On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 10:35 AM <gigh...@videosparkproductions.com> wrote:I agree with Mr. Prasad on this issue. Books and articles have been
published that explain how the "Cap and Trade" method to mitigate
environmental destruction works for corporations, but not for the
environment.
On 2019-12-18 14:16, 'Kamal Prasad' via ClimateActivists-SC wrote:
> "The pay-to-pollute scheme also swaps environmental justice for
> pollution, a raw deal that hurts already over-burdened lower-income
> communities and people of color so that corporate polluters can fatten
> their bottom lines. "
>
> https://www.foodandwaterwatch.org/insight/california-cap-and-trade-environmental-injustice
>
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Walter Alter
Dec 20, 2019, 1:31:41 PM12/20/19
to V Jacobi, Mark Mortensen, Osc_earth Action, ClimateActivists-SC@googlegroups com
So Carbon Futures end up being traded like any other commodity, subject to thee vagaries of the market or the manipulations of the market. By making carbon emissions into a "money" or at least a money maker, the impulse then becomes to magnify the quantity of that "money" by making the emissions standards higher and higher. That's the same as demanding a higher interest on a loan after the loan is agreed upon, that interest then becoming an asset on the lenders' books allowing him to wield even more financial power, the kind of feedback loop that is an oligarch's wet dream. The stink of corruption is going to turn our ideals into just another cesspool of greed.
Meanwhile the 3rd World, in the EARLY STAGES of becoming modern industrialized nations, are causing 90% of all carbon emissions on the planet presently. Where are our environmentalist organizers in China, Viet Nam, India, Africa, Latin America? Our environmentalist organizers are applying all the pressure in Europe and North America and Australia, exactly WHERE IT IS NOT NEEDED. The 3rd World has dragged their feet about environmentalism all along due to the correct impression that environmental demands will keep them locked in grinding poverty and debt, unable to industrialize and produce enough wealth to join the 1st World nations in their progressive programs.
We should be helping them to complete their steps into the modern world so they can adopt our progressive values and enjoy the quality of life that we enjoy, a quality of life that allows us to worry about such things as the environment. In this the BRICS infrastructure development financing bank should be supported and allowed to flourish as the enemy of the Wall St./City of London globalist fascist asset stripping banker mafia. Yah, I know, banking...woo, conspiracy, taboo. Get a grip, watch this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpG-r9FnnXY and adopt a strategy that will actually fix things. You probably never heard of the BRICS investment bank. Yah, I know, banking, not the same optics as holding a baby harp seal in your arms.
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