BUSH was RIGHT, Affirmative Racism down in flames.:)
bob johnson
Michigan's Affirmative Action suit. The federal judge shot it down just like
Jeb Bush has been trying to tell people, but they all thought they knew
better.
I't s a wonderfull day, it only took 25 years to stop something that never
should have been allowed to exist in the first place.
Just one more small morsel of learning for lefty's...:)
D Thompson
"bob johnson" <noneofyou...@goto.com> wrote in message
news:Rfsw6.19$Ua4....@nntp3.onemain.com...
> Just heard that AP and the New York Times has the story on the University
of
> Michigan's Affirmative Action suit. The federal judge shot it down just
like
> Jeb Bush has been trying to tell people, but they all thought they knew
> better.
>
> I't s a wonderfull day, it only took 25 years to stop something that
never
> should have been allowed to exist in the first place.
You must admit that if this makes it a wonderful day for you, maybe you have
some self esteem problems. The suit was external to your everyday life and
had nothing to do with you, or you with it. Why would this make it a
wonderful day?
> Just one more small morsel of learning for lefty's...:)
Actually a post like this is evidence that some right wing whackos need to
get a grip on reality. One instance of one federal judge deciding against
what was a bad law is hardly evidence of the entire idea of affirmative
action being wrong.
Thus, one small morsel of reality for the intellectually challenged right.
John
___>^..^<___
"bob johnson" <noneofyou...@goto.com> wrote in message
news:Rfsw6.19$Ua4....@nntp3.onemain.com...
> Just heard that AP and the New York Times has the story on the University
of
> Michigan's Affirmative Action suit. The federal judge shot it down just
like
> Jeb Bush has been trying to tell people, but they all thought they knew
> better.
>
> I't s a wonderfull day, it only took 25 years to stop something that
never
> should have been allowed to exist in the first place.
And how would you have proposed to solve the problem it was designed for?
> Just one more small morsel of learning for lefty's...:)
As opposed to the RRs who want a return to slavery.
bob johnson
"D Thompson" <da...@txeylzeport.com> wrote in message
news:Mztw6.51$dz2.1...@nntp1.onemain.com...
> You must admit that if this makes it a wonderful day for you, maybe you
have
> some self esteem problems.
Well, first I'd suggest you learn how to write a sentence, according to you
either I "must have" or "maybe". Ya can't have it both ways.
Secondly, your theory about self esteem is hogwash, and it would certainly
be fun
to see you support such lack of logic.
>The suit was external to your everyday life
Why?? Because you say so?? I think otherwise, and I know
considerable more about my life than you do. So just exactly where is it
that you think
your knowledge about relevance to my life comes from?
and
> had nothing to do with you, or you with it.
More asnine assumptions.
Why would this make it a
> wonderful day?
Because I've read the affirmative action document, and on page one
it says what it's going to do, and all the pages thereafter do the opposite.
It was garbage from day one.
As to why it going down would make it a good day, because anything
that beats some constitutional sense into the what's left of this country
is a good thing. I'm damn tired of feigned ignorance being used for
unconstitutional intrusions by govt. just because a majority are
ignorant.
>
> > Just one more small morsel of learning for lefty's...:)
>
> Actually a post like this is evidence that some right wing whackos need to
> get a grip on reality.
Look Bud, your mutually exclusive sentence, and statements based on
something between absurdity and nothingness speak pretty well for yourself.
One instance of one federal judge deciding against
> what was a bad law is hardly evidence of the entire idea of affirmative
> action being wrong.
This is the second one.
sel of reality for the intellectually challenged right.
>
>
I'd suggest intelectually challenged isn't something you ought to bring up.
John
--
___>^..^<___
"Ben L." <ne...@langN0SPAMlotz.com> wrote in message
news:3ac26799...@news.potlnd1.or.home.com...
> "D Thompson" <da...@txeylzeport.com> wrote:
>
> >You must admit that if this makes it a wonderful day for you, maybe you
have
> >some self esteem problems.
>
> Just like MLK had self esteem problems dreaming about all people to be
> judged as individuals?
>
> > The suit was external to your everyday life and
> >had nothing to do with you, or you with it. Why would this make it a
> >wonderful day?
>
> When injustice ends somewhere, justice can spread everywhere.
>
> >> Just one more small morsel of learning for lefty's...:)
> >
> >Actually a post like this is evidence that some right wing whackos need
to
> >get a grip on reality. One instance of one federal judge deciding against
> >what was a bad law is hardly evidence of the entire idea of affirmative
> >action being wrong.
>
> It is just the thing needed to get a ruling of nationwide effect. A
> non-right-wing judge makes a careful decision, well written, and sets
> the process in motion. This may very well be the beginning of the end
> of affirmative racism.
And what's your solution to ending racial discrimination?
bob johnson
"John" <jk...@anon.net> wrote in message
news:5bww6.6648$JS5.1...@e3500-chi1.usenetserver.com...
> --
> ___>^..^<___
>
> "bob johnson" <noneofyou...@goto.com> wrote in message
> news:Rfsw6.19$Ua4....@nntp3.onemain.com...
> > Just heard that AP and the New York Times has the story on the
University
> of
> > Michigan's Affirmative Action suit. The federal judge shot it down just
> like
> > Jeb Bush has been trying to tell people, but they all thought they knew
> > better.
> >
> > I't s a wonderfull day, it only took 25 years to stop something that
> never
> > should have been allowed to exist in the first place.
>
> And how would you have proposed to solve the problem it was designed for?
The 14th Ammendment would have worked fine, but that wasn't the point. The
point was some wanted a scam to put themselves over others, and
it worked just that way.
> As opposed to the RRs who want a return to slavery.
Another instant replay device for the DNC I see.
Try thinking for yourself sometime.
bob johnson
"Ben L." <ne...@langN0SPAMlotz.com> wrote in message
news:3ac26799...@news.potlnd1.or.home.com...
> "D Thompson" <da...@txeylzeport.com> wrote:
>
have
> >some self esteem problems.
>
> judged as individuals?
Ya know, I've never been able to figuire out why the left thinks MLK was one
of them. I'll agree that he had some of the better ideas at the time, but
those ideas were almost totally in opposition to what the left stands for.
Obviously MLK probably couldn't stomach repubs at the time because much of
the discrimination came form there, but that doesn't make him a lefty. He
was to smart for that!:)
John
___>^..^<___
"bob johnson" <noneofyou...@goto.com> wrote in message
news:_sww6.111$Eo1....@nntp2.onemain.com...
>
> "John" <jk...@anon.net> wrote in message
> news:5bww6.6648$JS5.1...@e3500-chi1.usenetserver.com...
> >
> > "bob johnson" <noneofyou...@goto.com> wrote in message
> > news:Rfsw6.19$Ua4....@nntp3.onemain.com...
> > > Just heard that AP and the New York Times has the story on the
> University
> > of
> > > Michigan's Affirmative Action suit. The federal judge shot it down
just
> > like
> > > Jeb Bush has been trying to tell people, but they all thought they
knew
> > > better.
> > >
> > > I't s a wonderfull day, it only took 25 years to stop something that
> > never
> > > should have been allowed to exist in the first place.
> >
> > And how would you have proposed to solve the problem it was designed
for?
>
> The 14th Ammendment would have worked fine,
But it didn't. And the 14th Amendment enshrines discrimination based on
sex.
>but that wasn't the point. The
> point was some wanted a scam to put themselves over others, and
> it worked just that way.
The question still stands - how do you propose to solve the problem of
discrimination?
Not Tellin'
correct in defeating the politics of victimization. How do "we" solve
the discrimination problem? "We" don't... "We" can't...
Opportunists like Jesse Jackson, Maxine Waters, Kwiesi Mfumi, et al will
do everything they can to continue discrimination and bigotry in our
nation. The perception of these horrors are central to their continued
success. "We" can't overcome them.
The only people in our nation who can solve the problem are those who
have subscribed to their own victimization. They will have solved the
problem when they stand as responsible individuals against the
recognized and real injustices they face. They will have solved the
problem when they disclaim and denounce the opportunists who maintain
the rhetoric of oppression under the banners of Rainbow/Push, NAACP, etc.
You've got to walk that lonesome valley by yourself...
In article <cdww6.6659$JS5.1...@e3500-chi1.usenetserver.com>, "John"
John
___>^..^<___
"Not Tellin'" <Monkey...@NoSpamAtAll.com> wrote in message
news:MonkeyShines-A08D...@news.newportnet.com...
> I have read this whole exchange. Jeb Bush and the courts were absolutely
> correct in defeating the politics of victimization. How do "we" solve
> the discrimination problem? "We" don't... "We" can't...
>
> Opportunists like Jesse Jackson, Maxine Waters, Kwiesi Mfumi, et al will
> do everything they can to continue discrimination and bigotry in our
> nation. The perception of these horrors are central to their continued
> success. "We" can't overcome them.
>
> The only people in our nation who can solve the problem are those who
> have subscribed to their own victimization. They will have solved the
> problem when they stand as responsible individuals against the
> recognized and real injustices they face. They will have solved the
> problem when they disclaim and denounce the opportunists who maintain
> the rhetoric of oppression under the banners of Rainbow/Push, NAACP, etc.
>
> You've got to walk that lonesome valley by yourself...
>
You're full of shit too. Do remember your "solution" when it's you that
gets stopped for 'driving while white', and it's you that's required to sit
in the back of the bus, and it's you that can't even get an interview for
that good job.
D Thompson
>
> "D Thompson" <da...@txeylzeport.com> wrote in message
> news:Mztw6.51$dz2.1...@nntp1.onemain.com...
> >
> > "bob johnson" <noneofyou...@goto.com> wrote in message
>
> > You must admit that if this makes it a wonderful day for you, maybe you
> have
> > some self esteem problems.
>
> Well, first I'd suggest you learn how to write a sentence, according to
you
> either I "must have" or "maybe". Ya can't have it both ways.
> Secondly, your theory about self esteem is hogwash, and it would certainly
> be fun
> to see you support such lack of logic.
You don't make one bit of sense. Just what are you blathering about? You're
not only a conservanazi, but a grammarnazi as well. Usually when someone
starts bitching about sentance construction it means they really don't have
much to back up their original mindless claims.
> >The suit was external to your everyday life
>
> Why?? Because you say so?? I think otherwise, and I know
> considerable more about my life than you do. So just exactly where is it
> that you think
> your knowledge about relevance to my life comes from?
>
> and
> > had nothing to do with you, or you with it.
>
> More asnine assumptions.
Well, proof I'm wrong would certainlt prove you right, but it sure looks
like I'm not.
Go ahead. Show me that I'm wrong. Show me how it directly changed your
everyday life.
> Why would this make it a
> > wonderful day?
>
> Because I've read the affirmative action document,
Really? The "document"?
and on page one
> it says what it's going to do, and all the pages thereafter do the
opposite.
> It was garbage from day one.
Most judges, save one, say you're wrong. What's your background that makes
you an expert in civil rights law? Your opinion on it's merits really don't
matter.
> As to why it going down would make it a good day, because anything
> that beats some constitutional sense into the what's left of this country
> is a good thing. I'm damn tired of feigned ignorance being used for
> unconstitutional intrusions by govt. just because a majority are
> ignorant.
This is rather amusing. You question my logic and then claim your minority
opinion is exceptional in some way without any proof. I guess we should all
just accept your ruling on the matter.
>
> >
> > > Just one more small morsel of learning for lefty's...:)
> >
> > Actually a post like this is evidence that some right wing whackos need
to
> > get a grip on reality.
>
> Look Bud, your mutually exclusive sentence, and statements based on
> something between absurdity and nothingness speak pretty well for
yourself.
Where's the mutually exclusive part? You are a major idiot and a blowhard.
There is nothing mutually exclusive about a right winger and a whacko.Every
sentance you produce is proof of that.
> One instance of one federal judge deciding against
> > what was a bad law is hardly evidence of the entire idea of affirmative
> > action being wrong.
>
> This is the second one.
The second what? You don't really comminicate well yourself, buddy.
>
> sel of reality for the intellectually challenged right.
> >
> >
>
> I'd suggest intelectually challenged isn't something you ought to bring
up.
And I don't think a mental lightweight and a paranoid jackass such as
yourself should really be considered much of a judge in the "intellectual"
category.
Then again - you just prove my point about what kind of idiot voted for
George Bush. Very stupid ones...
Bill Shatzer
-snips-
> The remaining petty incidents and insults that people of various
> groups face is of minimal effect on the opportunities that people have
> for advancement in life.
"Petty"?
"Minimal"?
Never been black yerself, I gather?
Indeed, never even talked to a black person?
You need to come down off of the lily-white West Hills and experience
the real world. Maybe even walk a mile in someone else's mocassins.
Peace and justice,
--
Bill Shatzer -bsha...@orednet.org -or- aw...@freenet.carleton.ca-
"Cave ab homine unius libri"
Glenworthy@xteleport.com Henry Glenworthy
> "bob johnson" <noneofyou...@goto.com> wrote
> >I't s a wonderfull day, it only took 25 years to stop something
> >that never should have been allowed to exist in the first place.
> And how would you have proposed to solve the problem it was
> designed for?
What "problem"? The sole problem is allowing unqualified
applicants entrance into colleges.
> > Just one more small morsel of learning for lefty's...:)
> As opposed to the RRs who want a return to slavery.
Yeah, sure, you betcha. What did Swilly J. Klintoon do
about the >actual< "slaves" in prisons due to the absurd
and counter-productive "War on (Some) Drugs"? Nothing.
--
"History is a better guide than good intentions.
Jeane Kirkpatrick
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
D Thompson
"Ben L." <ne...@langN0SPAMlotz.com> wrote in message
> "bob johnson" <noneofyou...@goto.com> wrote:
>
> >Obviously MLK probably couldn't stomach repubs at the time because much
of
> >the discrimination came form there, but that doesn't make him a lefty. He
> >was to smart for that!:)
>
>
> The civil rights acts had more opposition from Dems than from Repubs.
True, but this is, and always has been a moderate/liberal vs. conservative
issue. The difference is that back then there was more of a mix in both
parties - now it's polarized.
So it's really the conservatives that are harboring racists in their ranks
that attack equality. And these days that also means republicans.
c...@teleport.com
ne...@langN0SPAMlotz.com (Ben L.) wrote:
> Maybe you need to lay off the race-baiting, and borderline hate
> speech.
Cummon Bennie. Remember when you accused me of racist remarks and then
said it was just a little funny comment?
Pot Kettle Black
D Thompson
"Ben L." <ne...@langN0SPAMlotz.com> wrote in message
> "D Thompson" <da...@txeylzeport.com> wrote:
>
> >So it's really the conservatives that are harboring racists in their
ranks
> >that attack equality.
>
> "opposing equality."
Where did I do that, Benson? I merely stated that conservatives harbor
racists. Many racists have very similar beliefs in other areas as other
conservatives and republicans so I guess pandering for their votes is
explainable.
D Thompson
"Ben L." <ne...@langN0SPAMlotz.com> wrote in message
> "D Thompson" <da...@txeylzeport.com> wrote:
>
> >I merely stated that conservatives harbor
> >racists.
>
> votes of minority racists, huh?
>
> > Many racists have very similar beliefs in other areas as other
> >conservatives and republicans so I guess pandering for their votes is
> >explainable.
>
> because they want a tax cut too, this makes conservatives racist?
You walk right into these sometimes...
So because of a few racists (and certainly fewer than the conservatives) you
claimed in a previous post that liberals were racist.
You're either a hypocrite or your short term memory isn't very good
> McCarthy would be proud!
Of the continuing legacy of the republican party and its path toward a new
RR McCarthyism, I'm sure he feels vindicated. There are several articles
written by your so-called "compassionate" conservatives crowing that
McCarthy was right. Maybe you should read them, hmmm?
John
___>^..^<___
"Ben L." <ne...@langN0SPAMlotz.com> wrote in message
news:3ac5ce3f...@news.potlnd1.or.home.com...
> "John" <jk...@anon.net> wrote:
>
> >As opposed to the RRs who want a return to slavery.
>
> More ignorant hatred from the left.
More lies and obfuscation from the right.
John
___>^..^<___
"Ben L." <ne...@langN0SPAMlotz.com> wrote in message
news:3ac6ce69...@news.potlnd1.or.home.com...
> "John" <jk...@anon.net> wrote:
>
> >The question still stands - how do you propose to solve the problem of
> >discrimination?
>
> Please detail the acts and effects of this "Problem" that you are so
> intent on keeping alive?
Take the challenge, Ben - make up like a black man for a month and then come
back and tell us there's no problem.
John
___>^..^<___
"Ben L." <ne...@langN0SPAMlotz.com> wrote in message
news:3ac3cd6f...@news.potlnd1.or.home.com...
> "John" <jk...@anon.net> wrote:
>
> >And what's your solution to ending racial discrimination?
>
> Institutional discrimination against blacks is essentially unknown in
> higher ed admissions, and even is affirmative racism were banned,
> those in power would still hold their biases to try to increase black
> numbers.
>
> The remaining petty incidents and insults that people of various
> groups face is of minimal effect on the opportunities that people have
> for advancement in life.
Tell you what, Ben, apply makeup to yourself so that you look like a black
man for a month, go out and circulate among people and do your daily
business, then come back and tell us there's no discrimination. What! You
say someone already did that? And just what did he find?
John
___>^..^<___
"Ben L." <ne...@langN0SPAMlotz.com> wrote in message
news:3acb6d8c...@news.potlnd1.or.home.com...
> "D Thompson" <da...@txeylzeport.com> wrote:
>
> >So it's really the conservatives that are harboring racists in their
ranks
> >that attack equality.
>
> It is laughable that you equate those who oppose affirmative action as
> "opposing equality."
So the question is whether you can't see the inequality - or you do see it,
but you just don't care because it's someone else's problem?
D Thompson
If you've read enough of his posts you'd know that it's because it is
someone else's problem.
"It's not my problem" is of course the mantra of the libertarian crowd.
Bill Shatzer
On Thu, 29 Mar 2001, Ben L. wrote:
> aw...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Bill Shatzer) wrote:
> >"Petty"?
> >"Minimal"?
> Minimal *effect*. Having a woman cross the street or clutch her purse
> out of fear, or being occasionally ignored by taxicabs must be
> unpleasant, but they do not account for the problems in black
> culture/society regarding education/advancement/economics.
If this is your perception of the totally of the problems experienced by
minorities, you've not, as you claim, been either talking -or- listening.
> >Never been black yerself, I gather?
> I guess I should just leave all race issues to blacks, since I am
> incapable of learning by any means other than direct experience.
I suspect, bennet, that you are just plain incapable of learning by any
means, period. You've repeatedly proven that.
> Heaven forbid I learn about black experiences from black authors and
> black friends.
"Black friends"? If such exist (which I doubt), they are either terribly
forgiving sorts or you must not disclose much of yer political and social
philosophy with them.
> >Indeed, never even talked to a black person?
> Better still, I listen to them.
See above. A claim which I seriously question. Tell me, bennet, just how
many black clients do you have? Hispanics? American Indian? How many
blacks live within, oh, six blocks of yer west hills mansion?
> >You need to come down off of the lily-white West Hills and experience
> >the real world.
> Maybe you need to lay off the race-baiting, and borderline hate
> speech.
You are free to identify what you consider "race-baiting and borderline
hate speech". Do you deny that yer West Hills neighborhood is anything
-but- lily white?
> But you leftists need to keep racial hatred and fear alive to hold
> your juicy political power, so I can understand why you make these
> comments.
And, you are free to identify the "racial hatred" component as well.
[It does seem that some correlary of Godwin's Law oughta be applicable
here.]
Peace and justice,
D Thompson
"Ben L." <ne...@langN0SPAMlotz.com> wrote in message
> "John" <jk...@anon.net> wrote:
>
> >> >As opposed to the RRs who want a return to slavery.
> >>
> >> More ignorant hatred from the left.
> >
> >More lies and obfuscation from the right.
>
Compassionate Conservatives
Uniter not a divider
arsenic
Carbon Dioxide
Tax cut
economy
Campaign finance
John Ashcroft
States rights
Individual's rights
jdcope
D Thompson
"Ben L." <ne...@langN0SPAMlotz.com> wrote in message
> "D Thompson" <da...@txeylzeport.com> wrote:
>
> >"It's not my problem" is of course the mantra of the libertarian crowd.
>
> who have them is actually better for those people in the long run, not
> to mention society.
So the victims can solve their own problems - and the ones who caused the
problems don't even have to answer to their peers.
Sounds like the usual selfish me-first I don't want to pay for it it's not
my problem I only want to be left alone and not participate in society
unless I need something illogical claptrap from the libertarians.
You not being one, though you sometimes claim to be when convenient.
D Thompson
"Ben L." <ne...@langN0SPAMlotz.com> wrote in message
Maybe you have some proof to back up this rather simplistic claim of your
own.
BTW - I forgot to add the lies about Clinton trashing the Whitehouse offices
and stealing from Air Force 1.
Please forgive me.
bob johnson
"John" <jk...@anon.net> wrote in message
> The question still stands - how do you propose to solve the problem of
> discrimination?
I don't think there is a problem of discrimination, aside from affirmative
racism.
bob johnson
D Thompson
Affirmative action in it's present form may not be the answer, but to claim
that discrimination is no longer a problem in this country is either
incredible ignorance, blind denial, or racism.
Take your pick
bob johnson
"Ben L." <ne...@langN0SPAMlotz.com> wrote in message
> "bob johnson" <noneofyou...@goto.com>
>
> Careful, Bob!
>
> The civil rights acts had more opposition from Dems than from Repubs.
Oh yeah? Well just exactly how is it that the left claims to be the guardian
of our supposed civil rights?
D Thompson
Run Away! Run Away!
Can't defend your own stupid statements so you turn your tail and plonk me.
Bob Tiernan
On Fri, 30 Mar 2001, bob johnson wrote:
> Well just exactly how is it that the left claims to be the
> guardian of our supposed civil rights?
It's simply a matter of repeating lies over and over again
until believe them. This is yet another example of why
all modern governments are influenced a great deal by
Joseph Goebbles.
Bob T.
John
___>^..^<___
"Ben L." <ne...@langN0SPAMlotz.com> wrote in message
news:3ac7203b....@news.potlnd1.or.home.com...
> "John" <jk...@anon.net> wrote:
>
> >So the question is whether you can't see the inequality - or you do see
it,
> >but you just don't care because it's someone else's problem?
>
> Where is there unequal treatment?
Take the challenge, Ben - make yourself black for a month and then tell us
there's no discrimination.
John
___>^..^<___
"bob johnson" <noneofyou...@goto.com> wrote in message
news:pB6x6.257$Cx5....@nntp3.onemain.com...
Take the challenge - makeup yourself to look like a black man for a month
and then come back to us about the "lack" of discrimination.
bob johnson
Why is it that every time you come up with some idea, it's always somebody
ELSE has to do something?? I see no reason why anybody would
do something the guy trying to pawn the idea off won't do. Seems to me you
shoul dbe the first to do it, you're the one suggesting it.
John
--
___>^..^<___
"Ben L." <ne...@langN0SPAMlotz.com> wrote in message
news:3ac618da....@news.potlnd1.or.home.com...
> "D Thompson" <da...@txeylzeport.com> wrote:
>
> >Affirmative action in it's present form may not be the answer, but to
claim
> >that discrimination is no longer a problem in this country is either
> >incredible ignorance, blind denial, or racism.
>
> If you are talking about small or rare acts of discrimination, fine.
> It exists, is as frequent by minorities as toward them, has minimal
> effect on the opportunities for essentially all minorities.
Take the challenge, Ben - paint yourself up as a black man for a month and
then come back and tell us there's no discrimination.
> We are talking here about individuals crossing the street to avoid a
> black man, fearing crime, cabs not stopping for blacks, and jerks
> using epithets when angry (e.g. "f***ing jew bas***d" -Hillary
> Clinton).
Except that Hillary never said that. Widely reported by RR news, but
entirely false.
>Those things have essentially no effect on opportunities
> for education or jobs.
>
> If you think there is anti-black discrimination in educations
> admissions or hiring (assuming Affirmative Racism were prohibited),
> then you have some persuading to do. I don't believe that those in
> power to make these decision will avoid hiring an equally qualified,
> presentable, etc. black person. Fact is, most in power would be
> delighted to bend over backwards to take the black, all things being
> equal, after the decades of preferences that have made it socially
> normal and desirable to do so. Wouldn't you? Wouldn't the admit
> department at Berkeley?
Remove the carrots and sticks and what would happen?
John
___>^..^<___
"bob johnson" <noneofyou...@goto.com> wrote in message
news:5tax6.531$Iu3.5...@nntp1.onemain.com...
>
> "John" <jk...@anon.net> wrote in message
> news:Nmax6.4076$BC6.1...@e3500-chi1.usenetserver.com...
> > "Ben L." <ne...@langN0SPAMlotz.com> wrote in message
> > news:3ac7203b....@news.potlnd1.or.home.com...
> > > "John" <jk...@anon.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > >So the question is whether you can't see the inequality - or you do
see
> > it,
> > > >but you just don't care because it's someone else's problem?
> > >
> > > Where is there unequal treatment?
> >
> > Take the challenge, Ben - make yourself black for a month and then tell
us
> > there's no discrimination.
>
> Why is it that every time you come up with some idea, it's always somebody
> ELSE has to do something?? I see no reason why anybody would
> do something the guy trying to pawn the idea off won't do. Seems to me you
> shoul dbe the first to do it, you're the one suggesting it.
>
We've already done it and found there was a lot of discrimination. You can
find numerous studies being conducted that continue to show discrimination
in our society - "racial profiling" is just one.
bob johnson
> and then come back to us about the "lack" of discrimination.
If your idea is so good you do it, personally I think it's silly.
Reguardless of the events involved, the outcome will be slanted to the
participant's preference.
I would like to see you come up with some evidence of all this racism that
you seem to claim is standing in the way of people's career.
I've been around quite a bit, and until about 5 years ago I hadn't seen
it. Even then it was the guys
that ended up in jail for burning that stuff in the black guy's yard in
Gresham.(They were amazing dunderheads, I figuire half of them were govt.
employees.)
John
___>^..^<___
"bob johnson" <noneofyou...@goto.com> wrote in message
news:qzax6.375$Cx5....@nntp3.onemain.com...
---------------------------------------
What do we know about discrimination? I don't think all employers
discriminate. I think there's a lot of variation in the degree to which
employers discriminate based on where they're located and the nature and
character of the establishment. But which kinds of employers are more likely
to discriminate than others? I think we know something about that. I've
found some of that in my own research.
For instance, the size of the establishment matters a lot. The smaller the
establishment the more likely it is to engage in discrimination. It's very
clear if you look at the hiring patterns of who hires more minorities versus
who doesn't.
http://frontpage.nyec.aa.psiweb.com/racismpanel.htm
-----------------
One of the keys to undoing racism is to take action as individuals. Here
are a few suggestions about what we as individuals can do.
Becoming Part of the Solution
Face the Facts -- Undoing racism is about getting past the denial.
Show what it takes -- Undoing racism is about you.
Reach out to others -- Undoing racism is about your community, your nation
http://www.nyec.org/undoing_racism_.htm
----------------
The Subtle Clues to Racism
A white sociologist's nine criteria for spotting veiled bias become key to a
lawsuit over tenure. Hanging in the balance is a black professor's career
But he doesn't think this jury would have believed him had he not been
white. He thinks--and his black colleagues have told him--the jury probably
would have thought a minority professor self-serving if he said such things.
This, he figures, is why he got back into doing race research. To do
his part.
http://www.latimes.com/news/state/updates/lat_prof010111.htm
D Thompson
"Ben L." <ne...@langN0SPAMlotz.com> wrote in message
claim
> >that discrimination is no longer a problem in this country is either
> >incredible ignorance, blind denial, or racism.
>
> It exists, is as frequent by minorities as toward them, has minimal
> effect on the opportunities for essentially all minorities.
>
> black man, fearing crime, cabs not stopping for blacks, and jerks
> using epithets when angry (e.g. "f***ing jew bas***d" -Hillary
> for education or jobs.
>
> If you think there is anti-black discrimination in educations
> admissions or hiring (assuming Affirmative Racism were prohibited),
> then you have some persuading to do. I don't believe that those in
> power to make these decision will avoid hiring an equally qualified,
> presentable, etc. black person. Fact is, most in power would be
> delighted to bend over backwards to take the black, all things being
> equal, after the decades of preferences that have made it socially
> normal and desirable to do so. Wouldn't you? Wouldn't the admit
> department at Berkeley?
And if we abandoned affirmative action all together as some here suggest?
The crossing the street to avoid little brown people and not wanting blacks
in your neighborhood would turn back around from insulting personal behavior
to become discrimination in the job/education force.
Affirmative action needs to stay in some form - not only to benefit those
little brown people some don't like but to punish institutionalized racists
that claim discrimination is not a problem.
Though it may be used against me, I dream of a day when we can tell a joke
about someone's color, sex, or sexual orientation and have it mean no more
than someone's weight, laziness, or drug use.
This day is no where near close.
D Thompson
"Ben L." <ne...@langN0SPAMlotz.com> wrote in message
> "D Thompson" <da...@txeylzeport.com> wrote:
>
> >And if we abandoned affirmative action all together as some here suggest?
> >The crossing the street to avoid little brown people and not wanting
blacks
> >in your neighborhood would turn back around from insulting personal
behavior
> >to become discrimination in the job/education force.
>
> away the more qualified black in favor of the less-qualified white.
Having lived in the south myself I can tell you this claim of yours is
absolute ignorance on your part. It was done, and is still done, all the
time. Turning a blind eye to it's existance doesn't solve the problem - but
I suspect you could really care less about the problem anyway.
>
> >Affirmative action needs to stay in some form - not only to benefit those
> >little brown people some don't like but to punish institutionalized
racists
> >that claim discrimination is not a problem.
>
> Where is the evidence of institutionalized racism?
Go somewhere other than lily-white Portland for a good example. The west
isn't as bad but in the south and east it exists.
>
> (And nice little implied accusation that anyone who denies racism
> would be a significant factor in hiring or admissions is himself a
> racist, you McCarthyist.)
If the shoe fits, Ben. Making a claim that racism either doesn't exist or
isn't a problem is either ignorance, selfishness, or racism.
BTW - the McCartyism claim is pretty baseless. How is claiming racism exists
McCartyistic? Maybe you need to pick up a history book and brush up a tad.
> >Though it may be used against me, I dream of a day when we can tell a
joke
> >about someone's color, sex, or sexual orientation and have it mean no
more
> >than someone's weight, laziness, or drug use.
> >
> >This day is no where near close.
>
> When the government stops treating some races like losers and victims,
> it will change.
I don't disagree, but claiming racism doesn't exist won't help.
bob johnson
That's a good place to start, because I reather suspect you "know" some
things that I don't believe.
I don't think all employers
> discriminate.
Ditto, fact I rather suspect damn few if any do.
I think there's a lot of variation in the degree to which
> employers discriminate based on where they're located and the nature and
> character of the establishment.
Not only that, but there are cultural aspects about different races
generally, and depending onw what buisness you're in, some of them may be a
better fit in your endeavor than others. That wouldn't necessarilly be
racism, just good buisness.
But which kinds of employers are more likely
> to discriminate than others? I think we know something about that. I've
> found some of that in my own research.
>
> For instance, the size of the establishment matters a lot. The smaller the
> establishment the more likely it is to engage in discrimination.
Well, actually at one point I had something to do with hiring at a local
small buisness(using the word buisness very loosley) and they definitely had
policies in place that were very racist. Because of them we had to do a
national search, and the guy we ended up with was a lying scamming worthless
cretin. Before you get all excited, it was KBOO radio, and the racist policy
mandated "people of color"(another lefty moron position, white and black are
the ABSENCE of color) That is racist.
It's very
> clear if you look at the hiring patterns of who hires more minorities
versus
> who doesn't.
Why?? What could that possibly show?? If ya
want me to believe racism is going on show where
a more qualified candidate was refused for a lesser
qualified one.
>
> http://frontpage.nyec.aa.psiweb.com/racismpanel.htm
>
> -----------------
> One of the keys to undoing racism is to take action as individuals. Here
> are a few suggestions about what we as individuals can do.
>
> Becoming Part of the Solution
> Face the Facts -- Undoing racism is about getting >past the denial.
Yeah, well there's one small problem with that little scenario. By planting
the idea that denial is common it invites people to merrily go on believing
whatever they conjure up instead of holding out for fact.
>
> Show what it takes -- Undoing racism is about >you.
And I'm doing my part, I'm trying to show those that
haven't figured out that they are the cause of the problem.
>
> Reach out to others -- Undoing racism is about your community, your nation
> http://www.nyec.org/undoing_racism_.htm
>
> ----------------
> The Subtle Clues to Racism
> A white sociologist's nine criteria for spotting veiled bias become key to
a
> lawsuit over tenure. Hanging in the balance is a >black professor's career
I don't think a case involving tenure is much relevant.
Tenure agreements are agreed to by the party's involved, and has little to
do with denying a job in the first place.
>
> But he doesn't think this jury would have believed him had he not been
> white. He thinks--and his black colleagues have told him--the jury
probably
> would have thought a minority professor self->serving if he said such
things.
Well with the Jesse Jacksons of the world, it's not like one has to imagine
such.
John
___>^..^<___
"Ben L." <ne...@langN0SPAMlotz.com> wrote in message
news:3ac8191f....@news.potlnd1.or.home.com...
> "John" <jk...@anon.net> wrote:
>
> >Remove the carrots and sticks and what would happen?
>
> Evidently, you think the Berkeley admit committee are racists
> constrained only by the law.
>
> I agree that they are probably racists, except that they would prefer
> blacks and hispanics to whites and asians.
Would you like a little cheese to go with that while whine?
bob johnson
Is that the most usefull thing you can come up with??
Looks like an admission that your a racist to me.
John
___>^..^<___
"bob johnson" <noneofyou...@goto.com> wrote in message
news:sqtx6.963$jc2.3...@nntp2.onemain.com...
No, but your statement of: "Not only that, but there are cultural aspects
about different races generally, and depending onw what buisness you're in,
some of them may be a better fit in your endeavor than others" is blatant
racism.
John
___>^..^<___
"Ben L." <ne...@langN0SPAMlotz.com> wrote in message
news:3ac8706...@news.potlnd1.or.home.com...
> "bob johnson" <noneofyou...@goto.com> wrote:
>
> > I think there's a lot of variation in the degree to which
> >> employers discriminate based on where they're located and the nature
and
> >> character of the establishment.
> >
> >Not only that, but there are cultural aspects about different races
> >generally, and depending onw what buisness you're in, some of them may be
a
> >better fit in your endeavor than others. That wouldn't necessarilly be
> >racism, just good buisness.
>
> And let's not forget that discrimination is ALREADY ILLEGAL! One can
> sue, one can get the eager government to sue or prosecute.
Ben, you and Bob are outright racist.
jdcope
> Take the challenge, Ben - make yourself black for a month and then tell us
> there's no discrimination.
>
How about just being a "White Christian Hetero Male"...you'll get all the
discrimination you need in this PC, affirmative-racism society...
Jon
John
--
___>^..^<___
"jdcope" <jdc...@email.msn.com> wrote in message
news:enyp4YouAHA.354@cpmsnbbsa07...
That's BS. If you experience discrimination it's not because of your race -
but because you wear your racism on your sleeve.
D Thompson
I've always found the conservative's revisionist idea that being intolerant
of racists, bigots, and zealots makes you a racist, bigot, or zealot
yourself to be laughable. To go even further and make it into being against
white males is pathetic, and a direct insult to white males.
I won't even get into the christian and heterosexual part of your remark.
That you have to identify yourself as either is another arguement entirely.
Christians and heterosexuals have it so rough these days.
>
> Jon
>
>
>
>
bob johnson
news:3aca4dee...@news.potlnd1.or.home.com...
> "John" <jk...@anon.net> wrote:
>
> >No, but your statement of: "Not only that, but there are cultural aspects
> >about different races generally, and depending onw what buisness you're
in,
> >some of them may be a better fit in your endeavor than others" is blatant
> >racism.
No it is not, and the fact that you can't follow even that has suggestions
in itself. I happen to be in a place right now where the most important
trait is punctuality. The person in this position has been here everyday,
six days a week, NEVER having been late, for the last 6 years. There are
cultural aspects to different races, and while certainly there are
exceptions within any race, the tendencys do tend to stack up after awhile.
It also just so happens I've been employed in an organization that existed
solely to promote races other than mine.(I was the only white person) I
don't know whether or not they frely admit theese differences, but do know
that in internal conversations it came up, and was described as cultural
differences. The attitude was there wasn't anything they or anybody else
could do about them.
Now whether you accept this or not is up to you, but my bet is it doesn't
fit your construct and you won't be able to handle realilty, again.
You know, this type of behavior has a considerable resemblance to those
defending and
those wanting to jail Milosevic. One side says one's lying, the other sez
the other is.
I suggest it's time to grow up and go with fact.
bob johnson
> --
> ___>^..^<___
>
> "Ben L." <ne...@langN0SPAMlotz.com> wrote in message
>
> Ben, you and Bob are outright racist.
Nope, we just deal in fact, whether we or you or anybody else likes it or
not.
bob johnson
That's not true. I once considered becoming a fireman. Because of
affirmative racism, I would have been forced to work with people that got
their position not through qualification, but racism. On top of that, if I
had become one, I'd have to put my life on the line at the hands of those
that were less than the best, which is why I didn't.
So, now if you'll go back and look through you past posts, you'll find
where you stated I'd never expierienced discrimination. This proves you
wrong,
and I'd hope in the future you'd learn to consider facts and what you KNOW
before trying to pass it off.
Bill Shatzer
On Fri, 30 Mar 2001, bob johnson wrote:
> "John" <jk...@anon.net> wrote in message
> > The question still stands - how do you propose to solve the problem of
> > discrimination?
> I don't think there is a problem of discrimination, aside from affirmative
> racism.
How would you distinguish discrimination from "affirmative racism"? Seem
about the same thing to the folks on the receiving end, I would think.
And, is not there a problem with non-race based discrimination as well?
Peace and justice,
John
--
___>^..^<___
"bob johnson" <noneofyou...@goto.com> wrote in message
news:XD3y6.1774$jc2.5...@nntp2.onemain.com...
I certainly can't abide YOUR "reality" - I find it racist.
>
> You know, this type of behavior has a considerable resemblance to
those
> defending and
> those wanting to jail Milosevic. One side says one's lying, the other sez
> the other is.
> I suggest it's time to grow up and go with fact.
>
I've already told you what you are.
End of thread.
John
___>^..^<___
"bob johnson" <noneofyou...@goto.com> wrote in message
news:7G3y6.1775$jc2.5...@nntp2.onemain.com...
Those are only "facts" in YOUR "reality".
End of thread.
John
___>^..^<___
"bob johnson" <noneofyou...@goto.com> wrote in message
news:oL3y6.169$9q6....@nntp1.onemain.com...
>
> "John" <jk...@anon.net> wrote in message
> news:vHHx6.14299$BC6.3...@e3500-chi1.usenetserver.com...
> >
> > "jdcope" <jdc...@email.msn.com> wrote in message
> > news:enyp4YouAHA.354@cpmsnbbsa07...
> > >
> > > "John" <jk...@anon.net> wrote in message
> > > news:Nmax6.4076$BC6.1...@e3500-chi1.usenetserver.com...
> > >
> > > > Take the challenge, Ben - make yourself black for a month and then
> tell
> > us
> > > > there's no discrimination.
> > > >
> > > How about just being a "White Christian Hetero Male"...you'll get all
> the
> > > discrimination you need in this PC, affirmative-racism society...
> > >
> > That's BS. If you experience discrimination it's not because of your
> race -
> > but because you wear your racism on your sleeve.
>
> That's not true. I once considered becoming a fireman. Because of
> affirmative racism, I would have been forced to work with people that got
> their position not through qualification, but racism.
In other words, you've determined the qualifications of people you've never
met - based on whether they qualified for an Affirmative Action program --
that is blatant racism.
End of thread.
bob johnson
never
> met - based on whether they qualified for an Affirmative Action program --
> that is blatant racism.
>
> End of thread.
No it's not, you don't get to make lame brained unsubstantiated assertions,
say the thread is over
and try to sneek that garbage bye.
Who do you think I talked to about the job????
Why do you think it became clear???
Fact of the matter was the guy I talked to was enough to convince me I
wasn't going that way.
You're right in as much as I don't know the merits of how he got his job, I
only know that I was unimpressed to the point I wasn't willing to devote
much of my life sentenced to a group that I had no reason to believe was
much better than him.
bob johnson
never
> met - based on whether they qualified for an Affirmative Action program --
> that is blatant racism.
>
> End of thread.
Well, just to let you know what you have just done, I'm going to describe
the situation a little farther.
I was working as the only white person in a place that had probably
15-20 employees, and 200-300
clients. Now remember, I'm the only white. I was there for 2-3 years. Most
of the staff and several of the clients PAID ME to do some of their things
for them. Now, according to you, I'm a blatant racist.
So, either ALL of those people were/are extremely dumb, or the equivalent of
the KKK hiring the NAACP on an ongoing basis has occured.
I hope you're proud of yourself.
Just for grins, remember the case awhile back where the KKK won the right to
post a sign denoting their maintenance of a section of highway??? It seems
the state couldn't prevent them from that, however they COULD rename the st,
it's now the "Rosa Parks Freeway"!!:)))
jdcope
They are facts in everyone's reality...most ignore it, dont care, or are
just in denial.
I really think you need to remove the blinders and stop believing everything
you hear or read in the media.