Urgent: anyone knows the systems aspects of getting X11 up and running ?

[micheldenis]

Hi,

Need to make a customer demo tomorrow morning and have a major
problem:

We got an Ubuntu 10.04 LTS Server version installed, and then
installed Java, Wonderland etc.. as usual.

But X11 apps do not get in-world, thought there's no error message
anywhere in the various logs.

Reading the Ubuntu docs it looks that the X11 stuff is not installed
on Ubuntu "server versions".

So I did a "sudo apt-get install x-window-system-core" which installed
xorg's several packages.

But after that and a reboot, X11 apps still don't work in Wonderland !

Do you know whether there is anything else to do ? Like modifying a
config file for getting X11 to start ? or else ?

Thanks in advance for your help,
-michel

[nick.rathke]

Hi,

I usually do

sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop

or

sudo aptitude install --without-recommends ubuntu-desktop

for Gnome desktop

if you want KDE I believe it is

sudo apt-get install kubuntu-desktop


I have not tried these on a 10.04 server...

You can also Google " ubuntu install desktop"

-Nick

[Michel DENIS]

Hi Nick,

Do you mean that I need to install the full desktop software for running a WL server that just needs X11 Server up and running ?
I need no GUI etc because that's a distant central server accessed from Windows desktops

Thanks,
-michel

nick.rathke a écrit :

-- 
Michel DENIS
Président, Internet 3 Solutions SAS
Tél: 06.72.87.17.50
michel...@internet3solutions.com
http://www.internet3solutions.com/

[Josmas Flores]

Michel, are you accessing the server via remote ssh or something similar?
The thing is that if you are accessing the server directly and you
have a desktop, then X11 is already working, and the problem may be
somewhere else?

Nick's advice on installing Gnome is a good one, if you don't have a
window manager already running.

cheers,
José

[Michel DENIS]

Hi José,

The Wonderland server is with an internet services provider, where this time we got a "Ubuntu server" installed instead of a "Ubuntu desktop" software.
I access the server using ssh for installing.
The server is: Ubuntu server version, and my clients are Windows.
I wonder why Gnome is required on a Wonderland server, if I already added the x-windows-core packages on the server ?

Thanks,
-michel

Josmas Flores a écrit :

[nick.rathke]

Hi Michel,

I don't think that you need the full desktop, but I think that having at least running a Window Manager would be helpful.

-Nick

[Michel DENIS]

Wondering: is an install of X11 automatically modifying the startup scripts on the server for starting X11, or should I create a xorg.conf or similar and/or also modify some auto-starting scriptis on the server ?

thanks,

-michel

Josmas Flores a écrit :

Michel, are you accessing the server via remote ssh or something similar?
The thing is that if you are accessing the server directly and you
have a desktop, then X11 is already working, and the problem may be
somewhere else?

Nick's advice on installing Gnome is a good one, if you don't have a
window manager already running.

cheers,
José

On 1 November 2011 20:05, nick.rathke <nick....@gmail.com> wrote:
  

[Josmas Flores]

oops! I think we hit send at the same time!

Michel, even if you don't need a full desktop, if you are in a hurry
for that meeting tomorrow I'd give it a go :)

There are ways of getting XApss on a a headless server but wouldn't
know how to do it, but if you search the forums for something like
'headless xapss' you might get something out of that.

cheers,
José

[nick.rathke]

Hi,

I agree with Jose, loading Gnome or KDE would be the path of least
resistance to make a dead line.

-Nick

On 11/1/11 2:16 PM, Josmas Flores wrote:
> oops! I think we hit send at the same time!
>
> Michel, even if you don't need a full desktop, if you are in a hurry
> for that meeting tomorrow I'd give it a go :)
>
> There are ways of getting XApss on a a headless server but wouldn't
> know how to do it, but if you search the forums for something like
> 'headless xapss' you might get something out of that.
>
> cheers,

> Jos�

>
> On 1 November 2011 20:10, Josmas Flores<josmas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Michel, are you accessing the server via remote ssh or something similar?
>> The thing is that if you are accessing the server directly and you
>> have a desktop, then X11 is already working, and the problem may be
>> somewhere else?
>>
>> Nick's advice on installing Gnome is a good one, if you don't have a
>> window manager already running.
>>
>> cheers,

>> Jos�

[nick.rathke]

Hi Michel,

I just checked on one of my visualization servers (not running Ubuntu) and Gnome is loaded even thought the Gnome manager (gdm) is not running. I'll have to build a Ubuntu server VM and see how X apps work there without X installed but given that your in France ( I am GMT - 6:00) it might not be in time for your deadline.

-Nick

[Jonathan Kaplan]

On our ec2 servers (which use a version of Ubuntu server), we use apt-get to install the following packages:

python-software-properties
sun-java6-jdk
subversion
ant
zip
unzip
x11-common
x11-apps
x11-session-utils
xfonts-75dpi
xfonts-100dpi
xfonts-base
firefox
openoffice.org

We don't do any additional setup, and X11 apps work well.

On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 1:19 PM, nick.rathke <nick....@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

I agree with Jose, loading Gnome or KDE would be the path of least resistance to make a dead line.

-Nick

On 11/1/11 2:16 PM, Josmas Flores wrote:

oops! I think we hit send at the same time!

Michel, even if you don't need a full desktop, if you are in a hurry
for that meeting tomorrow I'd give it a go :)

There are ways of getting XApss on a a headless server but wouldn't
know how to do it, but if you search the forums for something like
'headless xapss' you might get something out of that.

cheers,

José

On 1 November 2011 20:10, Josmas Flores<josmas...@gmail.com>  wrote:

Michel, are you accessing the server via remote ssh or something similar?
The thing is that if you are accessing the server directly and you
have a desktop, then X11 is already working, and the problem may be
somewhere else?

Nick's advice on installing Gnome is a good one, if you don't have a
window manager already running.

cheers,

José

[Michel DENIS]

Jonathan,

Thanks.
Do you mean you installed these packages but all configurations to get X11 started at each boot is done automatically, ie you just do a set of "apt-get" ?

-michel

Jonathan Kaplan a écrit :

[Michel DENIS]

Hi Nick,

Following your recommendations the install of U. desktop is now complete, and I'll reboot the server, just in case.
Hopefully X11 will start automatically and ready to be picked up by SAS ?!

Thanks,
-michel

nick.rathke a écrit :

Hi Michel,

[Josmas Flores]

As far as I know you can do just the one 'apt-get' and add all the
packages after it in the same line (no need for commas or anything,
just one space to separate them). It should take care of dependencies
and configuration for you.

cheers,
José

[nick.rathke]

Hi Michel,

Let me know if things aren't working, I have a install running right now and can try to help.

-Nick

[Michel DENIS]

Hello,

Ubuntu desktop is now installed, the reboot is done.
SAS is running.
I insert a "gedit" and a "firefox", with the correct paths.
Messages in all logs look normal.

But ..
- cells are actually created in WL (objects editor) with numbers, but their X11 apps do not come visibly
- there are no "xremwin" processes running in the system
- there are no processes containing the names as they should like "gedit", "firefox"

Strange .. ?

[nick.rathke]

This one I'll have to leave for someone who know more about running apps in OWL then I do.

-Nick

[Michel DENIS]

thanks for your help Nick

nick.rathke a écrit :

[Ric Moore]

On 11/01/2011 04:19 PM, nick.rathke wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I agree with Jose, loading Gnome or KDE would be the path of least
> resistance to make a dead line.

I don;'t recommend KDE at all. I used it for years and years, but lately
it's loaded down with precess intensive applications that you cannot
remove with out removing KDE. To heck with them. I'm running XFCE as
it's lighter weight than either KDE or Gnome, even on my machine with 6
processors and 16 GIGs of ram. I just want all of that for my own use
and not for some feature I neither want nor need.

But, that's my two cents worth, :) Ric

--
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
http://linuxcounter.net/user/44256.html

[Michel DENIS]

I tried to "ssh -X" to the server and (on my client desktop):
- gedit is coming normally
- firefox comes only after 2 minutes
- chromium comes partly, with lots of error messages

So I think that X11 is at least partly working in the server. But something seems to be broken or so regarding X11.

But in WL nothing again is coming visible, though the cells (objects editor) are there but "empty"

Logs look correct, though not talking about X11 apps I have tried to insert.
Only a console message saying:
1 nov. 2011 22:37:14 org.jdesktop.wonderland.client.cell.ChannelComponent messageReceived
ATTENTION: No listener for message class org.jdesktop.wonderland.common.cell.messages.CellServerComponentMessage from cell org.jdesktop.wonderland.modules.xremwin.client.cell.AppCellXrw status VISIBLE

I think I will take some rest and try again "something" the hours before my show tomorrow morning.

Thanks to all of you !

-michel

Josmas Flores a écrit :

As far as I know you can do just the one 'apt-get' and add all the
packages after it in the same line (no need for commas or anything,
just one space to separate them). It should take care of dependencies
and configuration for you.

cheers,
José

On 1 November 2011 20:45, Michel DENIS <michel....@gmail.com> wrote:
  

[Jonathan Kaplan]

Michel,

If the logs are all normal, it's hard to tell what is going on.  The best way to debug is to reset the Wonderland server so that you have no shared apps (do a full cold restart by doing "stop all", restore a snapshot, then "start all"). Then from a command line, go to the directory ~/.wonderland-server/0.5-dev/run/shared_application_server/run. In that directory, run the command "./bin/runxremwin :2".  This will start the shared app X server. Finally, run an X11 app from the world. You should see messages about the application in the command line window.  Those errors should help debug the issue.

[Jonathan Kaplan]

Correct. No configuration or startup changes other than using apt-get to install the packages.

Note that starting the system X server is not necessary for Wonderland. Every time you launch an app using the SAS, it starts a private X server (Xvfb-xremwin) for that particular application.

[Michel DENIS]

Jonathan,

I did this, and now the X11 apps really come in-world !
Fyi there's no strange message in the logs.

Do you know how can it be that starting it manually like you said gives good results, while the other way it does not work ?

Thanks,

-michel

Jonathan Kaplan a écrit :

Michel,

[Jonathan Kaplan]

No, I can't explain that. The SAS should call the exact same runxremwin script as you did. Maybe the cold restart helped things?

[Michel DENIS]

Yes maybe the cold restart.
What I also did is:
- to remove the "open office converter" subsystem, that was there previously.
- remove the container and the security applied to the place (cockpit room)
Who knows, because one of the above ?!
I will try to find some time to investigate .. after my show of today

Cheers,

[Michel DENIS]

Hi,

Fyi I delivered by customer demo with lots of success today, X11 apps
went fine in-world, etc...

Thanks to all of you who helped diagnose the issue of last night.

Btw the customer gave some small input for enhancements, based on what
AssembLive/Unity3D permits:
- a double-click on on object should bring to Best View
(RightClick+Select is not natural)
- when a user takes control of an app, this should also bring the app
to Best View automatically (because attention is on it)

What do you think ?

-michel

[Josmas Flores]

Michel, congrats on the presentation!

I think the input is very appropriate. Best view is the best thing
since slice bread and many users don't ever get to use it cause they
cannot find it 'naturally'. Not sure double click is the best
combination (although if it's a standard, then it would be good) but
deffo better access to it would be fantastic. Automatically setting it
on taking control is another great idea imo.

I think this deserves an enhancement request (with high priority!)

cheers,
José

[Nicole Yankelovich]

Michel,

Hope your demo went well. Let us know!

Nicole.

[Nicole Yankelovich]

Michel,

[Ignore my earlier message...I didn't see that you had sent this report
since it was in a different thread. Glad to hear that your demo went well!]

I definitely like the idea of integrating Best View into take control.
Please file an RFE on this one.

I agree that making Best View more apparent would be good, but any key
sequence is going to be "hidden." Having both double-click and a right
click menu would certainly be worth trying, but I'm not sure anyone will
naturally figure out the double-click. Perhaps we need something like
the Navigation help HUD window that lists all the key sequences
associated with the modules that are installed on the server. So, for
example, if EZMove is installed, the Option-key to move documentation
could be added to the help pane.

Nicole.

On 11/2/11 8:22 AM, Josmas Flores wrote:
> Michel, congrats on the presentation!
>
> I think the input is very appropriate. Best view is the best thing
> since slice bread and many users don't ever get to use it cause they
> cannot find it 'naturally'. Not sure double click is the best
> combination (although if it's a standard, then it would be good) but
> deffo better access to it would be fantastic. Automatically setting it
> on taking control is another great idea imo.
>
> I think this deserves an enhancement request (with high priority!)
>
> cheers,

> Jos�

[Ric Moore]

On 11/02/2011 08:22 AM, Josmas Flores wrote:
> Michel, congrats on the presentation!
>
> I think the input is very appropriate. Best view is the best thing
> since slice bread and many users don't ever get to use it cause they
> cannot find it 'naturally'. Not sure double click is the best
> combination (although if it's a standard, then it would be good) but
> deffo better access to it would be fantastic. Automatically setting it
> on taking control is another great idea imo.
>
> I think this deserves an enhancement request (with high priority!)

I concur and add my vote! Anything to make it easier for the non-geek
client. :) Ric

[Michel DENIS]

Hello Nicole,

Just something simple and natural: 90% of population in the world (please note I don't say North America & UK/IRL) are using Windows (most of them enforced ie a fact, but that's another discussion), ie they work with click and double-click most of the time, sometimes also with right-click, but .. followed by item-click.
So here .. double-click is a possibility, another one being .. just a .. click !? (imagine..).
Imagine an object .. you want to see it better .. what do you do naturally ? You click and then you double-click, but you do NOT right-click.
Look at objects with text or so which are most of the time not in front of you: do you want people to walk around to get in front of objects to get a good view ?
The assumption (I'm hearing a lot, but it is quite disruptive maybe) I'd like to make is that a "beta" user should land in the world, click on a chair which make him/her seated and from there follow the meeting/training. Of course Ctrl-Mouse & Shit-Ctrl-Mouse enable to look around, and the mouse roller enables to zoom in, but it will never be the same as the Best View !

Just my 2 cents,
-michel
ps: one cannot assume that EZmove in installed unless it is in the stable trunk and by default built in in the script.

Nicole Yankelovich a écrit :

Michel,

[Ignore my earlier message...I didn't see that you had sent this report since it was in a different thread. Glad to hear that your demo went well!]

I definitely like the idea of integrating Best View into take control. Please file an RFE on this one.

I agree that making Best View more apparent would be good, but any key sequence is going to be "hidden." Having both double-click and a right click menu would certainly be worth trying, but I'm not sure anyone will naturally figure out the double-click. Perhaps we need something like the Navigation help HUD window that lists all the key sequences associated with the modules that are installed on the server. So, for example, if EZMove is installed, the Option-key to move documentation could be added to the help pane.

Nicole.

On 11/2/11 8:22 AM, Josmas Flores wrote:

Michel, congrats on the presentation!

I think the input is very appropriate. Best view is the best thing
since slice bread and many users don't ever get to use it cause they
cannot find it 'naturally'. Not sure double click is the best
combination (although if it's a standard, then it would be good) but
deffo better access to it would be fantastic. Automatically setting it
on taking control is another great idea imo.

I think this deserves an enhancement request (with high priority!)

cheers,

José

On 2 November 2011 11:59, Michel DENIS<michel....@gmail.com>  wrote:

Hi,

Fyi I delivered by customer demo with lots of success today, X11 apps went
fine in-world, etc...

Thanks to all of you who helped diagnose the issue of last night.

Btw the customer gave some small input for enhancements, based on what
AssembLive/Unity3D permits:
- a double-click on on object should bring to Best View (RightClick+Select
is not natural)
- when  a user takes control of an app, this should also bring the app to
Best View automatically (because attention is on it)

What do you think ?

-michel