A decision to make RAMPS+ arduino or smoothieboard?

[zendesigner]

Hi,

Maybe best a question for AJF. 

I blew up my ramps somehow when testing my steppers on my K40. So i ordered a new one. 

And it has arrived and so has a Smoothieboard that i ordered some weeks ago. :-)

So my question is now, go straight with the smoothieboard, or use the arduino ramps combo?

Kan smoothieboard do cutting now already ? i read somewhere not yet.  And what is the workflow and plugins? 

Or maybe best stick with the ramps/arduino and inkscape plugin ? 

Thanks

Bart

[Arthur Wolf]

A laser cutter was actually the first machine Smoothie ran on, years ago.

There are many happy Smoothieboard/K40 users.

Most use Cambam, but inkscape plugins, other open-source solutions, fusion360, etc, are known to work.

[Jason Barnett]

As Arthur Wolf said, a Smoothieboard will cut fine, but raster engraving is not yet implemented (it's in the works). There are work-arounds to convert images into gcode and get the same basic results.

I have just switched to a Azteeg X5 mini (Smoothieboard clone), from a Moshiboard, and have been using Inkscape with Turnkey Terrany's plugin. https://github.com/TurnkeyTyranny/laser-gcode-exporter-inkscape-plugin

For engraving, I have been using this plugin for Inkscape. https://github.com/305engineering/Inkscape

Arthur just suggested a stand-alone Python program, which can be found here. http://fablabo.net/wiki/Raster2Gcode

You can find a Smoothieware Laser guide here. http://smoothieware.org/laser-cutter-guide

[ajf]

Well, I'm pretty much done with RAMPS/Arduino for CNC/3D printing.  Would absolutely recommend going with Smoothie.  Couple of things to keep in mind though: 

You'll probably need a logic level shifter to interface with your laser PSU, minor issue as they are cheap to buy/build.

At most you only need 3 stepper drivers for a laser, so if you have Smoothieboard with more drivers they're kind of wasted.

I'm actually going to swap out the Azteeg X5 mini I currently have on my laser with a AZSMZ board I have on hand since it has pololu style headers.

regards,

aj

[zendesigner]

HI All, 

Thanks very much.  I ordered a lvel converter from nearby.  this one , i hope it's ok.  http://www.benl.ebay.be/itm/Adafruit-4-channel-I2C-safe-Bi-directional-Logic-Level-Converter-/181764109661?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item2a51fc355d 

I'll go with the smoothie board then.   AJ i read somewhere you were working on a Fusion plugin ?  I've downloaded Autodesk fusion and like it. Inkscape seems complicated to me and also throws an error on my machine because the new version is not W8.1 compliant.  My laser pc is W10 even.

If you can send me a picture (is you should have it)  on where to take the PWM signal go through the converter to the PSU it would be great. 

I have the same psu as this one.

https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-9/1517500_10153506858734066_9074308662197231535_n.jpg?oh=897a54d20708c7575e34c7d89b35e2bd&oe=56113D5C 

Thanks for your help.

Bart

[ajf]

On Friday, July 17, 2015 at 1:35:09 PM UTC-7, zendesigner wrote:

HI All, 

Thanks very much.  I ordered a lvel converter from nearby.  this one , i hope it's ok.  http://www.benl.ebay.be/itm/Adafruit-4-channel-I2C-safe-Bi-directional-Logic-Level-Converter-/181764109661?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item2a51fc355d 

Yeah, that should work fine.  

 

I'll go with the smoothie board then.   AJ i read somewhere you were working on a Fusion plugin ?  I've downloaded Autodesk fusion and like it. Inkscape seems complicated to me and also throws an error on my machine because the new version is not W8.1 compliant.  My laser pc is W10 even.

I'll send you the current version of the F360 plugin privately in a minute. Still haven't confirmed with Autodesk if it's okay to share publicly, they wrote the original version and it carries a copyright notice so I don't want to step on any toes...

 

If you can send me a picture (is you should have it)  on where to take the PWM signal go through the converter to the PSU it would be great. 

I have the same psu as this one.

https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-9/1517500_10153506858734066_9074308662197231535_n.jpg?oh=897a54d20708c7575e34c7d89b35e2bd&oe=56113D5C 

 

My PSU is a little different than yours, but not too much. The vendor's site for your PSU has a diagram that looks applicable though some of the labels are in Mandarin.  You will want to connect  the pin marked "IN" on the PSU to the pin you setup in Smoothie config as 'laser_module_pin' and then connect the "L" (low active) fire pin on the PSU to another available pin on Smoothie through the shifter.  The wiring of the shifter is pretty straight forward and you should get a diagram with it or can reference the Sparkfun site, basically you just need to provide 5v (from the PSU) and 3.3v (from Smoothieboard) and ground to the respective sides.

Here is a snippet of my Smoothie config which shows how to set up the fire pin as a switch that responds to M3/M5, which will be needed to make it work with the F360 and Inkscape plugins.  Please note that I'm using an Azteeg X5 mini board, so your pin assignmnets on a Smoothieboard may be different.

Also, just a reminder, be very careful when trying this out the first time.  It's a good idea to have an easy way to kill power to everything should anything go wrong.  Hopefully this doesn't seem condescending, but there are a lot of dangers here and if anyone comes here via a search I like to encourage a bit of caution!

Please let me know if you need any more info, and when you get a up running!

[zendesigner]

Hi all, 

The smoothieboard is up and running :-) .  First played around with the config and by adding endstops and thermisistors.  That worked easy.  Also the website instructions are awesome. 

Then build it into my laser and tested the steppers.  Work great from the start even if i couldn't determine the stepper current and make like described on the website. The make a huge noise though at slow speeds.  

Cut out some more room for the usb and ethernet port on the side of the K40. 

And already calibrated using the manual fire button and jogging the steppers.  Turned out i needed 157steps/mm for X and Y. Made this perfect calibration square. 

Here are the pics. 

https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/t31.0-8/11229386_10205850405237652_4748198580954743171_o.jpg
https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/11751969_10205850405597661_5290604146445222629_n.jpg?oh=717cbc133737f89117e055d233148863&oe=561D7EAD

https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/1782158_10205850405997671_4177765569395740415_n.jpg?oh=d553180ec3496ec591037e67003157d8&oe=5616854A

https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/t31.0-8/11709795_10205850406237677_3677000153018253897_o.jpg

https://youtu.be/Vl2iLGEXzE4

Now on to studying autodesk on how to create send to the board   ;-)

[Arthur Wolf]

Hey.

This is very nice !

Something you may like : I made a replacement plate, for the one that has all the buttons, that includes the RRD GLCD, and a slot for the external SD card.

It's in a cambam file, here : https://www.dropbox.com/s/q8qmj5z84epm7zk/laser-plate-3.cb?dl=0

Cheers.

[zendesigner]

Hi Arthur, 

Thanks very much, probably the first thing we are going to make. :-)

AJ, 

Can't get the plugin installed i'm afraid i have to rely on your help again. 

Bart

[ajf]

Bart,

Looks like you are using Windows, here is a link re installing posts. Basically you just need to find the .../CAM360/DATA/POSTS directory on your system and drop the .cps file in it, or, I think, you can use the button marked with the black arrow in the pic attached below.

I'm on a Mac and the install process is a little different, but let me know if you still can't get it going and I'll see what else I can come up with.

Also, the Autodesk forums are a great place to get help with various aspects of F360, plus there are lots of great videos on their Youtube channels.

regards,

aj

[ajf]

Oh, and you'll need to setup a tool for the laser.  You do this in the "tool library" tab that's available when you are in CAM mode.  Attached is in export of my tool which you should be able to import to get you started.

[zendesigner]

thanks very much AJ, 

The tool is wat i was missing.  I was able to find the post process script location. 

Unfortunatly my PSU has died on me just an hour ago.  So need to figure that out first. It gets 220 at the poles and if i turn it on it can be heard ticking like a clock slightly.  But no green light and no 24 power :-(.

two steps forward. one step back :-)

[Arthur Wolf]

That sounds like the tube having died ( at least from the time that happened to me ).

Check if it's not damaged, and if all the wiring is still ok.

[ajf]

Hmm, I haven't had a dead tube, but why would that knock out the 24v on the PSU?  My PSU has a fuse on the board, Bart's probably does too - maybe that's the problem...

regards,

aj

[zendesigner]

just a small update.
Supplier is sending me a new psu , so just waiting for the moment. 

Gives me time to try fusion 360. I'll post some questions about that in another post. 

Bart

[ajf]

Cool!

[Gareth McClean]

Sorry for being late to the party on this message but I only recently picked up a laser cutter/engraver.

I started a ramps conversion but before I go much further I'd like to know if it is worth while or am I better off just ordering a smoothie-board.

I have a basic RAMPS board working but there are a few outstanding issues, like the laser firing on a home and engraving not working form Inkscape. The laser accidentally firing is concerning but easily fixed. however before sinking more time into this project and potentially finding other bugs can someone please tell me if it is possible to build a working system with the board that is capable of cutting and engraving or at least explain why everyone seems to be switching to other platforms?

Also to those people that have switched to smoothie firmware, I have read posts saying it will and will not engrave, which is correct?

BTW I am not a fan of the RAMPS hardware but it is cheap and I happened to have one spare, that is why I am currently using it.

[ajf]

Though I have become a huge fan of Smoothie over the past year, many people are successfully using RMAPS/Marlin for their conversions. I think both the firing on home and engraving issues can be addressed by using the latest recommended Marlin version and Inkscape plugin.

Note that, even though Smoothie doesn't support raster engraving yet (it's in the works), there are workarounds as Arthur (father of Smoothie & laser enthusiast) pointed out in this thread.

I don't want to disparage RAMPS or Marlin, they have both served me well in the past.  However, a couple of points which I think are important:  

1.) The cost differential. I like to consider the overall cost of use.  And, I think hands down, even if you compare the most expensive Smoothieboard (5Xc) and compare it to the cheapest RAMPS/Arduino clone, Smoothie wins just it terms of the time saved in tinkering with configuration.

2.) Assuming you have Pololu style motor drivers on hand, there are a couple of Smoothie compatible boards out there that compare relatively well in terms of initial cost to RAMPS/Arduino clones.  I will not link them, simply because I don't think they have been good contributors to the community in terms of respecting the opensource requirements, but I'm sure you can find them...

regards,

aj

[Gareth McClean]

Thanks for the reply.

Based on your comments I'll play with the ramps board a bit more and see how I get on before makin a decision on how to move forward.

Your suggestion in a different thread to drop the laser power on a home command should be easy to implement if necessary :-)

[ajf]

Honestly, I only had Marlin running for a few days on my laser before switching to Smoothie.  Thought I had modded LMN's fork to explicitly turn off the laser while homing, but looking at the code I still have I don't see that now... May have implemented a workaround in my fork of the Inkscape plugin which I was also working on at the time.  At any rate, I'd suggest going with Turnkey's Marlin fork and corresponding Inkscape plugin if you aren't already.

[Andrew Fisher]

Just to throw my 2c in as I've been working with Marlin / RAMPs for a month or so now cutting more or less most days of the week building robot parts. It's been pretty reliable. You'll see a few posts from me querying various config options and this was largely that the Marlin config wasn't really tuned for the specifics of my cutter. I also didn't really have a good time with the inkscape plugin so went / stayed with CamBam which I know well. 

I'm actually using a fork of the LMN Marlin fork and it appears to have much simplified / K40 settings in place. I'll post a link later when I get to the machine I'm using and can get the git remote. Once I switched to that many of the "issues" were just resolved. From there a couple more tweaks for speed defaults and my cutter is zipping along quite nicely. 

I suspect at some point I'll "grow out" of the RAMPs set up but for the moment as I had the boards and motor drivers available it was a good option to go with while I sort other parts of the cutter out and spread the costs.

[zendesigner]

Hi Finally will be getting back on track with my build. I managed to blow up the PSU a few weeks ago probably cause it couldn't handle the load from my led lights ?? 
SO i ordered a new PSU that will arrive this evening. 

I chose to go with the smoothieboard basically after experimenting with all the possibilities it has. I not just added the two steppers motors, but also planning for a Z axis motor in future and maybe a rotating axis on another channel. It also has 2 temperature probes that are attached, one is embedded in the waterflow. 

So will be asking some advice to reprogram the smoothiefile to enable these soon. I would like the laser to turn off when for example water temp reaches 40 Celsius. 

Further i've been experimenting a litlle with fusion 360. it appears they are building also a specific part of their software for laser cutting. IT also can't be used with AJ's plugin unfortunatly. So i just tested the plugin with the help of AJ and it produces Gcode without a problem. 

Just i need to learn a lot more in fusion on how to make a path, decide the options for cutting etc... 

First i will be getting my PSU back online

Zen

[ajf]

Great! Hope you get up and running soon.

I have LEDs in my machine, the adhesive backed strip kind, run them off of one of the small MOSSFETs of my Azteeg X5 mini which is powered directly from the 24v of the PSU.  Haven't had any issues.  Use the following switch in my config:

switch.leds.enable                           true            #

switch.leds.input_on_command                 M42              #

switch.leds.input_off_command                M43              #

switch.leds.output_pin                       2.5              #

switch.leds.max_pwm                          110

The max_pwm is there to limit the output because the LEDs are 12v.

The WLPC (waterjet/laser/plasma cutting) feature in F360 is still in preview.  I haven't been able to get it to work with my post processor or with the generic Smoothie one that Autodesk is now including in F360.  Have been in touch with an Autodesk engineer about the issue and they are looking in to it...

The regular 2D Contour operation works fine with my laser post and the generic one, though the latter doesn't actually output gcode which is compatible with Smoothie.

regards,

aj

[zendesigner]

HI Aj, 

Thanks for the input for the leds. I'll probably be running them now through a relay and let them be attached to a seperate 12v power supply. 

I also tried with theWLPC and  smoothie plugin they have now but i always get this error in the post processing part. 

error: Radius compensation mode is not supported.

[Gareth]

I eventually had time this weekend to work the Ramps conversion and the good news is I now have it working for both cutting and raster engraving using the Inkscape plugin.


Part of my issue was due to optical end stops on my K40. Unfortunately my Mega2560 has an LED "L" tied directly to D13 which was putting too much load on the internal pull-up. While there are many ways I could have fixed this I opted to simply remove the LED. Note: newer boards seem to have a buffer for the LED.

I also added some code to disable the laser on a home to negate the accidental firing issue and for reasons I do not yet understand I also had to define LASER_PERIPHERALS. I am not using this feature but without enabling it homing would not work correctly (Specifically it looks like I need to pull-up pins 4 and 11 for some reason).


I also checked the stock Chinese Laser controller and it uses a PWM frequency of 2.5Khz so I used that in my config file.


So far I have just the laser to design and build a new prototype panel for the device but that involved around 20 test runs using paper while I experimented with different designs before committing to some hardboard. All in all not bad once I figured Inkscape out.


All that is left now to rewire the thing properly and see if I can use my standard design package as an alternative to Inkscape. 

Andrew: Would be intrested in looking at your recommended LMN Fork of the Marlin code if you can paste a link.

 

[zendesigner]

HI , 

FInally have been able to work on the laser again.  The PSU has been changed and it took about 4 weeks with some push to the manufacturer to get it here. But they came through in the end.

Got hit with import tax of 34€  on a 25$ RMA item, which was also nice. thank you Belgian government.And then took some more weeks to find a break from my work schedule to tinker with the laser again. 

So yesterday i hooked up the psu again , rearranged the electrics as i bought a stronger water pump + a flow indicator. The PSU now only powers the tube and smoothieboard and i added another 12v PSU from an old dell server to act for the water pump , flow meter and led lighting. 

I again realigned the mirrors and i'm now back to were we left off. 

Still to do:

•  calibrate the steppers for correct mm.
  
• Put in the logical level converter and send the burn command via pwm and the smoothie board.
• Figure out how to do some test runs
• design and burn me a new acrylic panel to put all my buttons and lcd in.
• Figure out on how to shut down smoothie automatically when my sensor in the water circuit senses +30 celcius. 
• figure out on how install the honeycomb bed (has arrived)
• decide if i keep going in upgrading and make a automated Z bed, or not. 
• make a rotary engraver? 

i'll post a picture later :-)

AJ , do you know if the Fusion bug is solved already ? 

Zen

[ajf]

Please see here.

[zendesigner]

Hi, 

It took some time due to work and waiting for the PSU replacement but finally i was able to do a first test cut fully produced by Fusion 360 and excecuted on the smoothieboard. 

you can see the video here   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cd8Wl4o_Ik

Now still needs some more experimenting and tweaking. And also a honeycombbed installed. And i also want to create a rotary engraver. 

Stay tuned ;-)

Zen