Has anyone seen good candidate for OpenPnp conversion for sale ? ( EU, preferably using cheap Yamaha feeders)

[Jarosław Karwik]

.. recently got some industrial space and got appetite for bigger machine with standard feeders.

Does not have to be operational, preferable smaller then bigger.

[Marek T.]

You can try http://www.pcbtechnology.pl
They trade with used machines and sometimes have interesting offers.

[Jarosław Karwik]

Thanks,

I will have to ask them as they do not provide prices online.

[Jarosław Karwik]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124100010683?ViewItem=&item=124100010683

Chinese, company does not exist anymore. But looks like it wóuld be simple job to convert it to OpenPnp

[Marek T.]

I was talking to them some two-three years ago and wanted to buy this machine. Given up because of lack of machine CE certificate and potential troubles at custom clearance. I think they still exists. It's not private company but belongs to the Chinese government, so don't think it may fall in socialistic reality...
https://boreytech.en.ecplaza.net

[Jarosław Karwik]

I will try to negotiate price - and 30 feeders is enough for me, the machine may even fit trough my office doors :-) instead of workshop.

Do you know if they use standard Yamaha feeders ?

[Marek T.]

I've had some manual for this machine, I'll search it. But it seems it's yamaha feeders using.
Btw:
Vision System: Automatic Correction, Aligning On the Fly, Auto-Insertion.

[Marek T.]

I've mailed you the files PM.

[Jarosław Karwik]

Thanks, it helps much.

There are indeed Yamaha feeders ( 30 pcs) . The machine is quite simple model - with steppers (not servos like in their material), but still show reasonable potential.

Will have to think more about it.

[Marek T.]

From one point of view, 30 feeders is near $1000, so you get nicely looking machine for ~$1500.

But from another side, I have seen an offers of old Philips for free (cost of shipment) together with bank of feeders.

Used shafts etc for sure, but solid construction and motors. Chinese quality is always unknown.

Maybe you need to wait for some occasion if it's not urgent.

[Jarosław Karwik]

There are only 12 feeders included - just the machine does have 30 slots. 

I am not in a hurry - I do have working system. The seller does not want to lower price , I will wait if he sells it - if not then I will send him counteroffer.

I was hoping to find such old Philips with feeders - that would be perfect. Even if such Chinese machine is usually easier to modify then older professional machine .

[Marek T.]

Some time ago Paul Kelly wanted to rid off his Philips machine probably for free. But from Australia...

Also CriS has told that have some Philips to sell. I have sent him an email to ask. He's in Europe.

[Balázs buglyó]

Marek an old one will be inteesting for me too .

In in Europe too.

Balazs 

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[Jarosław Karwik]

Australia is at least 2-3k$ away from Europe :-(

Lets keep eyes open.

What kind of servo drives do these Philips machines use ? Is it recoverable or you need to put new ones ?

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[Marek T.]

There is controller board 30x30cm with tones of ttl chips and processor like 8080. And two boards 15x30cm, each one containing two drivers (in my machines one driver is not used). Driver boards don't contain any processors. Just the main controller board is responsible both for placement and drivers control, it's heart of everything. It's a pity (because it works perfectly smoothly and silently) but I couldn't use it for Openpnp. I added some shity Hungarian drivers which never could tune so good to get it working like original drivers.

Everything is designed and marked by Yamaha Japan, generally these machines are Yamaha not any Philips. As I know the drivers were made in cooperation with SanyoDenki like the motors used there.

I can take and send you later some photos if you want to see it.

[Jarosław Karwik]

Well, if you could make some pictures (of your machine) then it would give me some preview what kind of work it is. My friend buys a lot of Delta servos, I could borrow some for testing, although I would like to avoid large overhaul of the machine - here chinese machines are easier to fix - even if mechanically they are much weaker.

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[Marek T.]

No problem, I'll send you tomorrow or on Wed.

[Marek T.]

Just I've found some in my smartphone, sent by email.

[Jarosław Karwik]

Got offer for Philips CSM 60 with feeders.

This one has mechanical ( lever type),

Anything special to look at ? ( except obvious state of mechanical parts )

[Marek T.]

Condition of the C axis. There is small ball (2mm) which locks an axis to allow simultaneousli rotate driving and up-down moving. It's sensible, when is used too much it gets high C clearance and looses possibility to keep C position as is excepted. It's hard to regenerate or to find the parts to replace. In my case I have thrown it away and built new C driving, and replaced the nozzle into the Juki at the occasion. Of course, you can remove all original head completely and mount there a head like from Peter Betz - what is maybe quite good idea.

Maybe better write PM if you need some more technical details, probably we'll get better technical communication in native language...

[Jarosław Karwik]

Just bought Philips CSM 66 :-) with feeders.

Now the real fun begins.....

[Marek T.]

Congrats! Waiting for effects :-)

[Jarosław Karwik]

Already ordered Peter's  head kit :-)

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[Marek T.]

I think it best decission. Even if something will be wrong you may count on his reasonable help and solution.

My only concern, and reason why I didn't decide to use it but stayed with original pneumatic, is the speed which seems be rather slow.

@Peter, if you read it, have you ever measured the time consumped on the move between the top and bottom position?

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[Jarosław Karwik]

I will make dedicated electronic for it - with Trinamic drivers. Should be quite fast then - but i guess still slower then pneumatic

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[Maple_Dude]

Where do you go to get 30 feeders for 1000$? I've only seen Yamaha (and clone) feeders for ~100$ each...

[Jarosław Karwik]

I have got 40 mechanical 8mm feeders for my Philips CSM 66 for about 300$ :-) and the machine itself ( operational, only 3500h on hour meter) for less  1500$

The feeders and machine itself was bought from a guy who loves it and collects machines for SMT business ( he does some small production), but cannot resist buying things when he finds something interesting ( then his wife complains so he sells ... to have more space for new things)

He has got more - if somebody is interested I can arrange more  ( mainly in EU as shipping is expensive otherwise).

I have also (bought before) full set of DIMA feeders ( about 50 pcs 8mm and 20 more which can be fixed) . These were a bit bore expensive ( like 25$ each), but I also got their holders - you can just attach it to your machine and use immediately ( that was my idea for upgrading my previous machine - now both feeders and machine are for sale)

These DIMA feeders are easilly ( with 3D printer) convertible for 12 and 16mm width

 

[Bill Ruckman]

It's certainly possible for used feeders.  I have recently purchased 42 Siemens Siplace 2*8mm electric feeders for about $1400 (includes shipping).  That's about $33 per component lane.

[Mike M.]

I have West side of pnp with DIMA feeders and East I am working on with Siemens Siplace 2x8mm (18eur for tween feeder-1unit)

[Mike M.]

On Saturday, 14 March 2020 11:59:42 UTC+1, Mike M. wrote:
> I have West side of pnp with DIMA feeders and East I am working on with Siemens Siplace 2x8mm (18eur for tween feeder-1unit)

Thanks to Bill I will be soon in action with Siplace feeders

Mike

[Jim]

Hey Mike, your machine is getting bigger and heavier.

How heavy is the west block?

Jim

[Iceturf]

Hey Bill, if you don't mind me asking  -  where did you get the feeders from? 

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[Mike M.]

Hello Jim,
Nice to see you following my progress :-)
The DIMA feeders side is not so heavy becouse the feeder to feeder distance takes more space per feeder as Siplace feeders which are very heavy on East side....
Mike

[Mike M.]

@Yaroslaw
Have you been able to get DIMA feeders doing a 2mm tape advancing?
Mike

[Jarosław Karwik]

I get them on Monday - then I can check.   There is original versions of these feeders with 2mm advance - the difference is only in one small metal wheel which can be laser cut ( that is what I heard from somebody owning such feeder)

[Mike M.]

To my knowlage the 2mm advancing feeders have additional spring - see attached

[Iceturf]

Hey Mike, that is a neat looking machine? Care to share more photos or details? 

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[Jim]

I like how you make all that improvments over the years. 

My fully loaded south block (28 slots) has about 48kg (incl. bus bar, connector block, cables) and i had to make some reinforcements to machine frame.

Have you found a solution for the tip changer (maybe your "merry-go-round" design) ?

Jim

[Mike M.]

Hi
I am not at home or with my machine ... there are some of my posts in here - google OpenPnP and my posts...
you will find as well my YouTube page and some older versions of my PnP which was based on LightPlacer quite some years ago..

[Mike M.]

Hi Jim,
I will need to talk with Bill for that magic Wheel Juki changer to work with OpenPnP - it works as stand alone version now only!
Will keep you updated ! :-)

[Mike M.]

[Iceturf]

Nice rubber washers on the Juki Nozzles - do they make for a good air seal?

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[Mike M.]

Good observation Mr.Ice. 100% to my head design.
:-)
Mike

[Balázs buglyó]

Hi Mike! I saw your machine. Maybe i missed but where did you buy the feeeders? Can you give some info about them? The cost of them the speeds etc. Are they user or brand new?

Waiting for your replay 

Balazs

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[Balázs buglyó]

Bill are you planning to sell them? Or have you got any info how can i buy them . I know im not able to find at the ebay. I found 200Eur / pc

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[Mike M.]

Used Siplace feeders 2x8mm eBay - you need to google more...
DIMA I purchased from eBay Klinecaitung - I my surce still has some

[Mike M.]

Link to purchase
https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-bestandsliste.html?userId=4629712
Mike

[Balázs buglyó]

Thanks. 

Yeah i know. I already strated to make a deal. But im new in it.

Can you tell me how do you control it? Have you got your own program?

If i will able to buy some can you share some info ? :)

00330037-07 Do i need to buy this? 

Thanks

Balazs 

Mike M. <mike....@gmail.com> (időpont: 2020. márc. 15., V, 10:16) ezt írta:

Used Siplace feeders 2x8mm  eBay - you need to google more...
DIMA I purchased from eBay Klinecaitung - I my surce still has some

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[Mike M.]

DIMA with Smoothieboard (? What you have?) is very simple to control
You need to purchase a digital servo to trigger the feeder
I am on my mobile now but could send some more details next week
Mike

[Jarosław Karwik]

I have over 50 DIMA 8mm feeders for sale - plus holders for them. Also around 20 which can be fixed. PM me if you are interested.

[Balázs buglyó]

I have some 3d controller with marlin but it doesnt metter. 

I started to negotiate to the siemens siplace. 

I forget to mentioned :) 

But Dima is also welcome if im not able to reach my goal

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[Mike M.]

For DIMA feeders see video here;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOffg7-mMO0
Mike

For Siplace - Bill R is still working on feeder control - Jason will hopefully add it to OpenPnP soon.
Mike

[Jarosław Karwik]

Nice idea with that servo - works nicely when feeders or on the side. I planned pneumatic actuator, but this seems even eaiser.

[Mike M.]

Yes it is very simple solution because servo travels with X axis and you do not need additional Stepper motor.
If the feeders would be infront a bridge with additional stepper would be needed to drive the servo to triggering location.... (This is as well possible with a bit more of hardware!)
Mike

[Bill Ruckman]

For the Siemens feeders, I have designed a controller board. Details are here: 

https://github.com/bilsef/SchultzController

I’m still working on the documentation. 

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[Balázs buglyó]

About the Siemens  feeders. Can you provide model number? maybe i missed but i did not see them.
Looking for 8mm tape. 0402 0603

Thanks

Balazs 

2020. március 15., vasárnap 16:12:08 UTC+1 időpontban Bill Ruckman a következőt írta:

For the Siemens feeders, I have designed a controller board. Details are here: 

https://github.com/bilsef/SchultzController

I’m still working on the documentation. 

On Sun, Mar 15, 2020 at 7:15 AM Balázs buglyó <buglyo...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have some 3d controller with marlin but it doesnt metter. 

I started to negotiate to the siemens siplace. 

I forget to mentioned :) 

But Dima is also welcome if im not able to reach my goal

Mike M. <mike...@gmail.com> (időpont: 2020. márc. 15., V, 15:12) ezt írta:

DIMA with Smoothieboard (? What you have?) is very simple to control
You need to purchase a digital servo to trigger the feeder
I am on my mobile now but could send some more details next week
Mike

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[Jarosław Karwik]

Check this - 3x for 120$

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Siemens-00141096-03-Siplace-SMT-2x8mm-Feeders-3for1price/333156431838?hash=item4d91abb7de:g:iYgAAOSwR69csqoD

[Marek T.]

Jarek, do you have the one on your hands maybe? Can you measure the size between bottom feeder surface (mounting plate top level) and pick level?

[Mike M.]

Hi all,

For Siemens Schultz Controller we know that this Siemens feeders models will work with Open PnP:

-  PL EA 1

- L&A EA 1

and  AUT 5

(Bill please add your model if you have different than I have ?)

Hight from base plate is a bit less than 100mm

See pictures enclosed

Mike

On Sunday, 15 March 2020 16:12:08 UTC+1, Bill Ruckman wrote:

For the Siemens feeders, I have designed a controller board. Details are here: 

https://github.com/bilsef/SchultzController

I’m still working on the documentation. 

On Sun, Mar 15, 2020 at 7:15 AM Balázs buglyó <buglyo...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have some 3d controller with marlin but it doesnt metter. 

I started to negotiate to the siemens siplace. 

I forget to mentioned :) 

But Dima is also welcome if im not able to reach my goal

Mike M. <mike...@gmail.com> (időpont: 2020. márc. 15., V, 15:12) ezt írta:

DIMA with Smoothieboard (? What you have?) is very simple to control
You need to purchase a digital servo to trigger the feeder
I am on my mobile now but could send some more details next week
Mike

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[Jarosław Karwik]

I donot - this was just seen on eBay. But this model seems to be supported, although these units on sale are not tested .

[Marek T.]

Thanks Mike!

[John deGlavina]

Ha, funny I just bought the last of those. (there were 9 dual feeders left)