0816 Automatic Feeder update

[Michael G.]

Hi!

Just had success with my updated feeders on plastic tapes. It seems a small feature after cover tape peeling does the trick to prevent parts from jumping out. Will experiment further and test whether it works at least 99% reliable ;) Paper tapes don't have the problem of jumping parts with this feeder design.

I uploaded the currentmost version as SolidWorks, STL and STEP-files to my page: https://docs.mgrl.de/maschine:pickandplace:feeder:automaticfeeders

Most of the documentation was updated to correspond to the current version already, some parts will be updated soon.

Anthony built one feeder (older version) already and we made a BOM for the US which I will check again and add to the page soon for easier sourcing.

Going to start to build some more feeder of the latest version now... If anybody would like to start these feeder, too, don't hesitate to contact me if you're missing details.

-michael

[Anthony Webb]

This looks really good! Are the STL files uploaded for the new 1.6 feeder? I’d like to print a few more this weekend.

Sent from my iPhone

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[Gregory Davill]

Amazing work! 

I've ordered a set of parts form aliexpress to make up a few to test. 

Very excited to have some of these feeders running!

Great work with the documentation too!

[Anthony Webb]

For me, sourcing the parts, including the springs, was a pretty daunting piece of this.  And I found that I ended up buying an entire bulk pack of stuff for just a few items.  Now that I've been through the process I can see it isn't so bad.  

My 11 year old son has offered to put together an easy bag of parts for those of you who are looking for an easy way out to source the exact parts needed at one stop :)  I'll try and post up a tindie link in the coming days.  Additionally, we have the spreadsheet with the amazon links and such for the different parts we bought that I think will be coming to Michaels instructions as well.  

Its definitely worth the exercise to print and assemble one of these to see how it works.  The more mindshare thinking about this problem and learning what works and what doesnt, the better the solutions we can uncover.

On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 9:56 PM, Robert Waters <rbrt...@gmail.com> wrote:

This is great. I printed one out but don't have the springs yet. Seems to work pretty well from what I can tell so far. A US source of parts would be handy. 

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[Michael G.]

Yes, the stls for 8mm are latest version 1.6.

[Michael G.]

Yeah, it needs many parts. I added most of the links to the bom table on the page now. but is amazon a reliable source for all those parts? e.g. the N20 motors are not in stock any more... If there is a better source, I would be happy to add it.
if you found other/better sources since we made the document, I would be happy if you could send me updated links or what you were missing else.

Am Samstag, 16. Dezember 2017 07:09:44 UTC+1 schrieb Anthony Webb:

For me, sourcing the parts, including the springs, was a pretty daunting piece of this.  And I found that I ended up buying an entire bulk pack of stuff for just a few items.  Now that I've been through the process I can see it isn't so bad.  

My 11 year old son has offered to put together an easy bag of parts for those of you who are looking for an easy way out to source the exact parts needed at one stop :)  I'll try and post up a tindie link in the coming days.  Additionally, we have the spreadsheet with the amazon links and such for the different parts we bought that I think will be coming to Michaels instructions as well.  

Its definitely worth the exercise to print and assemble one of these to see how it works.  The more mindshare thinking about this problem and learning what works and what doesnt, the better the solutions we can uncover.

On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 9:56 PM, Robert Waters <rbrt...@gmail.com> wrote:

This is great. I printed one out but don't have the springs yet. Seems to work pretty well from what I can tell so far. A US source of parts would be handy. 

On Friday, December 15, 2017 at 9:10:50 PM UTC-5, Gregory Davill wrote:

Amazing work! 

I've ordered a set of parts form aliexpress to make up a few to test. 

Very excited to have some of these feeders running!

Great work with the documentation too!

On Saturday, December 16, 2017 at 9:11:20 AM UTC+10:30, Michael G. wrote:

Hi!

Just had success with my updated feeders on plastic tapes. It seems a small feature after cover tape peeling does the trick to prevent parts from jumping out. Will experiment further and test whether it works at least 99% reliable ;) Paper tapes don't have the problem of jumping parts with this feeder design.

I uploaded the currentmost version as SolidWorks, STL and STEP-files to my page: https://docs.mgrl.de/maschine:pickandplace:feeder:automaticfeeders

Most of the documentation was updated to correspond to the current version already, some parts will be updated soon.

Anthony built one feeder (older version) already and we made a BOM for the US which I will check again and add to the page soon for easier sourcing.

Going to start to build some more feeder of the latest version now... If anybody would like to start these feeder, too, don't hesitate to contact me if you're missing details.

-michael

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[Michael G.]

Attached a photo of a finished, but still open feeder with some paper tape loaded and a animation showing the pick-place of a paper tape I just took (sorry for having the pick place out of focus ;).

if somebody wants to start a feeder in europe, I offer some unassembled controller-pcb plus one feeder-pcb I already have here for evaluation. you only need headers in a minimal version to get it working.
if you are interested, send me your address via private message and I will send them via Deutsche Post to you.

[bobgee...@gmail.com]

Michael,

I (like everyone else here) am super impressed with the work. Your documentation is truely excellent as well which is equally important, especially for novices like me.

I have only recently got a 3d printer up and running so now I am looking to start on my feeders. The timing of you releasing this is great for me.

I have got many of the parts sitting in baskets on eBay and Aliexpress, just waiting for me to click checkout. I was just looking at the pcb just now and it is quite expensive to order from OSHpark (although super convenient), because you have to order at least 3x of the large board and they are $40+ on their own.

I was then thinking maybe I would order a run of the boards if there are enough people here who need some. I then saw your last post about having some left over?

I am in the UK and don't mind sorting some out for and shipping them from here, but I can't promise anything will be quick as I tend to do things quite slowly. I.e. if I order pcb, maybe I get them in 2-3 weeks and takes 1-2 weeks to get to people outside of UK after that if I post simple airmail.

So, just on the pcb, Michael, roughly how many have you got lying around? If it isn't enough for everyone out there, I can order some for a good price from China or happy to leave it to you if you want to order more and ship them out to people.

The only other arkward part for sourcing are the springs. It seems quite wasteful if everyone is ordering those selection kits which by my reckoning only let you make 10 feeders and then have a whole load of spare springs left over. I might look around if I can find the springs we need on their own, again only if you haven't already got a box full, and if there are others out there who need them? Anthony, let me know if you get this sorted as well, no point loads of people trying to source the same stuff.

I will probably be back to you soon with more questions on the BOM, but for now I am looking at the PCB and have got motors and springs ready to order.

One thing that does spring to mind immediatley, It isn't totally clear to me how the system mounts to the machine and how I need to arrange my extruded aluminium frame. I will need to order some parts for this as my frame as it currently is, definitely will not work. I have downloaded your machine step file and will try to look at it later, so I might get back to you with questions about this.

Thanks again, really looking forward to having a go at making some of these!

[Robert Waters]

Anthony, count me as a customer for the parts kits. 

[Robert Waters]

I have already placed an order for the PCBs (3) and would be happy to 1/3 the cost and send 1 to you when they come in.

[Michael Gröne]

Hi,

Am 16.12.2017 um 16:52 schrieb bobgee...@gmail.com:
> I have got many of the parts sitting in baskets on eBay and Aliexpress,
> just waiting for me to click checkout. I was just looking at the pcb
> just now and it is quite expensive to order from OSHpark (although super
> convenient), because you have to order at least 3x of the large board
> and they are $40+ on their own.
>
> I was then thinking maybe I would order a run of the boards if there are
> enough people here who need some. I then saw your last post about having
> some left over?

I would recommend just get the small pcbs from oshpark. the other are
too expensive there. I have let made some in china already and have in
total 9 left over for the group.

> The only other arkward part for sourcing are the springs. It seems quite
> wasteful if everyone is ordering those selection kits which by my
> reckoning only let you make 10 feeders and then have a whole load of
> spare springs left over. I might look around if I can find the springs
> we need on their own, again only if you haven't already got a box full,
> and if there are others out there who need them? Anthony, let me know if
> you get this sorted as well, no point loads of people trying to source
> the same stuff.

I just took a sortiment because I didn't know at the very beginning
which springs would work. Now I have at least the dimensions of the
springs but not the force constant. maybe I can do some measurements and
look for a specialised shop. but think: the sortiment is about 7€, you
can get 20 feeder out of them (multiple springs work). I would guess one
can't get these cheaper in single pieces?

> One thing that does spring to mind immediatley, It isn't totally clear
> to me how the system mounts to the machine and how I need to arrange my
> extruded aluminium frame. I will need to order some parts for this as my
> frame as it currently is, definitely will not work. I have downloaded
> your machine step file and will try to look at it later, so I might get
> back to you with questions about this.

yes, the whole machine model should help to make it clear. the feeder
therein are a bit outdated now, but the mounting has not changed.

[n.a.m...@gmail.com]

Hallo Michael,

Thank you for this awesome work! I like it very much.
What model 3D printer are you using to make these?

Regards,
Niels.

Attached a photo of a finished, but still open feeder with some paper tape loaded and a animation showing the pick-place of a paper tape I just took (sorry for having the pick place out of focus ;).

if somebody wants to start a feeder in europe, I offer some unassembled controller-pcb plus one feeder-pcb I already have here for evaluation. you only need headers in a minimal version to get it working.
if you are interested, send me your address via private message and I will send them via Deutsche Post to you.

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[Michael Gröne]

I print all parts with one of my three homemade prusa i3 mk2.

[Bernd Walter]

Looks nice.
What width are they?
Both the pneumatic Yamaha as well as the Siplace use ~32mm for 12/16mm and ~16mm for a 8mm lane, modern feeder designs are slimmer.

Even after looking on your design page, I still don't understand the adjustable spring tensioner.
It pushes the tape down?
Almost all commercial design pushes the tape up against the pick opening frame to have a consistent pick height.
Only a 56mm feeder pushes it down, but they push the transport sides down (>=32mm have holes on both sides), which also results a consistent height.

What I don't like with your design is that has parts much higher than the pick location.
This can be a real pain with stuffed pick heads, which I already have with the CL feeders.
I can't locate the camera over the pick location without ramming my nozzles into the feeder.

As a side note:
I've noticed your reel holder.
The siplace feeders don't have a reel holder, so this would come handy for me.
What type of rods to you use?

Btw:. If you are ever near Moers and like to see the different feeder types I have live plus...

[Anthony Webb]

I am printing mine with a prusa mk2. Regarding how to mount them. They will attach to a stick of 40mm extrusion. Here is a pic of an example of that

Sent from my iPhone

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[Cri S]

You could use the less then 5Euro Mega sensor shield v2.0 for
connecting 32 servos.
In case smoothie don`t have a free heater pin, Hign side switch with
mosfet costs 3Euro
as arduino single channel pcb or solder a logik level power mosfet
with resistor itself
on the board.

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[Anthony Webb]

Bernd, you are correct about the feeder height above the pick spot. I am attaching a photo of the issue. You can see that in my design if I try to put the down facing camera over the part, the nozzles collide with the feeder. Easy fix on my case was to move he feeders to the rear, problem solved. 

Sent from my iPhone

[Michael Gröne]

Am 16.12.2017 um 17:20 schrieb Bernd Walter:
> Looks nice.
> What width are they?
> Both the pneumatic Yamaha as well as the Siplace use ~32mm for 12/16mm
> and ~16mm for a 8mm lane, modern feeder designs are slimmer.

overall width of one feeder at 8mm tape → 13.5mm, 12mm tape → 16mm, 16 →
20mm

> Even after looking on your design page, I still don't understand the
> adjustable spring tensioner.

the spring next to the servo motor is just to keep the tape in place by
adding some friction. The lane height is adjusted at the position, where
the cover tape peels off. you can insert a small M2 screw to screw down
the lever arm a bit to lower the lane's height. not optimal but better
than nothing.

> It pushes the tape down?

no, the bottom of the tape is always the same. but the upper bound of
the lane will get lower.

> Almost all commercial design pushes the tape up against the pick opening
> frame to have a consistent pick height.

wanted to do that first, but I didn't get such small features below the
tape printed well. maybe in future releases it could be revised.

> What I don't like with your design is that has parts much higher than
> the pick location.
> This can be a real pain with stuffed pick heads, which I already have
> with the CL feeders.
> I can't locate the camera over the pick location without ramming my
> nozzles into the feeder.

jeah, thats annoying, you're right. for my machine it is possible to
reach the pick location by camera but one must take care not to drive
sidewards.

> As a side note:
> I've noticed your reel holder.
> The siplace feeders don't have a reel holder, so this would come handy
> for me.
> What type of rods to you use?

I used 10mm aluminium rods from Hornbach in one version and in another
version I used 8mm stell rods, nothing special...

> Btw:. If you are ever near Moers and like to see the different feeder
> types I have live plus...

seeing a working feeder in real life would have made the design probably
much better ;)

[Michael Gröne]

I have mounted mine a little different but that doesn't matter... I made
a little "podest" below the feeder to have them a little higher than the
machine table. camera can reach the pick location

Am 16.12.2017 um 17:30 schrieb Anthony Webb:
> Bernd, you are correct about the feeder height above the pick spot. I am
> attaching a photo of the issue. You can see that in my design if I try
> to put the down facing camera over the part, the nozzles collide with
> the feeder. Easy fix on my case was to move he feeders to the rear,
> problem solved.
>

> image1.jpeg
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 16, 2017, at 9:20 AM, Bernd Walter <be...@bwct.de

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[Michael G.]

hmm, I think I could add a compile time option to support that board, too if anybody would like to use that.
the feedback line would be left out then (state of microswitch is checked on a fourth line, to check whether tape is tensioned properly).

[Bernd Walter]

On Saturday, December 16, 2017 at 5:33:52 PM UTC+1, Michael G. wrote:

Am 16.12.2017 um 17:20 schrieb Bernd Walter:
> Looks nice.
> What width are they?
> Both the pneumatic Yamaha as well as the Siplace use ~32mm for 12/16mm
> and ~16mm for a 8mm lane, modern feeder designs are slimmer.

overall width of one feeder at 8mm tape → 13.5mm, 12mm tape → 16mm, 16 →
20mm

That's a slim design.

> Even after looking on your design page, I still don't understand the
> adjustable spring tensioner.

the spring next to the servo motor is just to keep the tape in place by
adding some friction. The lane height is adjusted at the position, where
the cover tape peels off. you can insert a small M2 screw to screw down
the lever arm a bit to lower the lane's height. not optimal but better
than nothing.

Ah

> It pushes the tape down?

no, the bottom of the tape is always the same. but the upper bound of
the lane will get lower.

> Almost all commercial design pushes the tape up against the pick opening
> frame to have a consistent pick height.

wanted to do that first, but I didn't get such small features below the
tape printed well. maybe in future releases it could be revised.

Ah - ok, yes that's difficult to print.

> What I don't like with your design is that has parts much higher than
> the pick location.
> This can be a real pain with stuffed pick heads, which I already have
> with the CL feeders.
> I can't locate the camera over the pick location without ramming my
> nozzles into the feeder.

jeah, thats annoying, you're right. for my machine it is possible to
reach the pick location by camera but one must take care not to drive
sidewards.

 

Have to think about it.
I'm in need of more 12mm feeders, but only the front side has the nozzles first.
That is where my pneumatic feeders are and I also intend to put some siplace on the front.
The back side is already full with siplace.
And the sides can only hold short and flat feeders, since that's the moving area for the head.
And with 4 nozzles in a row they also need some freedom.
But to add to my problems: the side rail structure is lower than the pick height, so I can't use long feeders on the side either.
Right now I have a drag block on the left side within the movement area, the rest is on the outside.

> As a side note:
> I've noticed your reel holder.
> The siplace feeders don't have a reel holder, so this would come handy
> for me.
> What type of rods to you use?

I used 10mm aluminium rods from Hornbach in one version and in another
version I used 8mm stell rods, nothing special...

Oh - I should have looked at your files first.
You have different versions for 8, 10 and 12mm.
I will definitively print one.
8mm steel rods is something I have on stock, as well as 12mm, but I don't like to use
the expensive 12mm for that.
The length is about 1m for 48 reels - with 8mm I will have to use more of the mounts, but this should be possible.

> Btw:. If you are ever near Moers and like to see the different feeder
> types I have live plus...

seeing a working feeder in real life would have made the design probably
much better ;)

I know it is not very near to where you live.
But it is also very hard to show some of the design patterns on camera.

[Anthony Webb]

As a word of caution, the latest 1.6 feeder is having some issues with paper tapes.  It appears that perhaps the gap between the wiper and where the peel happens is too large, and sometimes parts that stick to the tape can peel up through that gap, or at least be twisted such that they do not stay in the pocket.  The second issue is that the wiper does not appear to be staying down on the tape.  Nothing that a heat gun and some tweaking wont fix, but I think something that we can definitely improve in the next revision. 

Here is the 1.6 feeder (before our modifications) in action https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLnt17mUnvY

Note that the previous version, feeding the same exact tape for us, was and still is flawless, so it is just the addition of this wiper that appears to be giving fits.

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[Michael G.]

not too bad to hear that, because, the adjustment of the lane width is not optional any more. the nominal lane height changed from 1mm (old version) to 1.25mm (version 1.6) to allow for thicker paper tapes (for caps). the feature you call wiper here is made flexible in order to adapt to different tapes. I documented it not properly, it seems. Here is what I mean in pictures: https://docs.mgrl.de/maschine:pickandplace:feeder:automaticfeeders#troubleshooting  M2x8 screwed down completely makes the lane height very small. make sure you don't clamp the tape.

I got the feeder version 1.6 working with paper tapes as well as with plastic tapes flawlessly (with that little screw inserted).

hope it works now for you, too?

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[Anthony Webb]

Sorry we missed the adjustment!  After tweaking on it we are in MUCH better shape.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0HI_-Fan2c

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[Michael G.]

to lower the barrier to start with the feeder (from electronics point of view), I added support for the cheap board cris mentioned. the firmware will support both boards, the board you can order from oshpark (called it native shield) or you can use the arduino mega sensor shield v2.0. a little comparison between the shields is on the updated page: https://docs.mgrl.de/maschine:pickandplace:feeder:0816feeder:controller#controller-shield_for_arduino_mega

-michael

[Trampas Stern]

One idea for the cover tape is to use the same servo.

The image above is a design I was working on, however the ratchet system on the bottom was a pain to get working. Therefore I was going to look at using a clutch bearing:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/10pcs-HF0306-One-Way-Bearing-Miniature-Needle-Rollers-Bearings-3x6-5x6mm/301801195118?hash=item4644c0c66e:g:~AEAAOSwYHxWJLW6

The Yamaha CL feeders use clutch bearings for the tape system and it works well. The basic idea is that the the spring (red in image above) pulls the take up wheel and the amount of tension on the spring sets the cover take up tension.   Then using clutch bearing and pinch roller like the CL feeders would be a great addition to your feeder. 

Trampas

[Trampas Stern]

here is a video. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqBgeK5qOzo

In the video I was using the system as a take up reel and you can see the take up wheel ratcheting being poor, again with clutch bearings it would be a lot better. Also a pinch wheel system would be better so you don't have to empty the take up reel. 

[Michael G.]

balint had a similar design. I did not have much luck with these small ratchets printed. thats why it is with a separate motor now...
I love the design with the feeder finger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qJp1j-rdVU
but it's patented recently, so I don't know how to handle that... and whether it can be printed?

[Trampas Stern]

The small ratchets is a problem, but with the clutch bearings you don't need small ratchet. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArWzMyBTSK0

The Yamaha feeders have two clutch bearings one on the center wheel and one on the black wheel.  This allows ratcheting using just the bearings. 

You could use two clutch bearings like Yamaha does or you can make a larger ratchet and one clutch bearing. I was going to do the larger ratchet and a clutch bearing as the mechanics seemed easier, but both would work. 

Like you,  I also like the finger method. I tried making a finger from sheet metal as well as exacto blade, however I found that it is really tricky to get the clearance just right so it lifts the cover tape and but does not cut into the paper. 

Trampas

[Bernd Walter]

On Thursday, December 21, 2017 at 12:18:47 PM UTC+1, Trampas Stern wrote:

The image above is a design I was working on, however the ratchet system on the bottom was a pain to get working. Therefore I was going to look at using a clutch bearing:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/10pcs-HF0306-One-Way-Bearing-Miniature-Needle-Rollers-Bearings-3x6-5x6mm/301801195118?hash=item4644c0c66e:g:~AEAAOSwYHxWJLW6

The Yamaha CL feeders use clutch bearings for the tape system and it works well. The basic idea is that the the spring (red in image above) pulls the take up wheel and the amount of tension on the spring sets the cover take up tension.   Then using clutch bearing and pinch roller like the CL feeders would be a great addition to your feeder. 

Some older Siplace feeders use the same.
They use a reel to pickup, which I don't like, but the transmission is clutch bearing for the 8m as well as the 12/16mm feeders and motor driven on anything wider than that.
The transport motor pushed a rod to the back and this tensions a spring loaded system, which rotates the roller via a clutch bearing.
The 8mm feeders even are way more clever, they use a single motor for 2 tapes.
Each direction has a clutch bearing to drive a single side, so depending on the motor direction either the left or the right line is driven.

[Michael G.]

I made a video with machine and feeder in action :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6GtYSvUlHI

[Arie Lashansky]

Hi Michael

Thanks For your design.

I see the Files are now version 1.7   can you please update what changed 1.6 to 1.7.

I have Printed almost 10 sets using 1.6 version  while I wait for parts from Ali express  N20 motors Springs and rc servo

and arduino Mega .

 

I  coat the Build Surface with ABS slurry as the parts are so big they will warp if not done.The Parts are a Pain to Remove

but do not warp. The Pins need a bit of cleaning with a knife and sandpaper  to Fit .

On my Printer the main parts need to put at about 60 degrees so the fit the Build Platform. The Print Time is closer to 8 hours on my Printer after spitting up the Parts 50mm per second .

Arie

[Michael G.]

i, for changes please see https://docs.mgrl.de/maschine:pickandplace:feeder:0816feeder:mechanics#changelog
there were only minor improvements addressing an issue anthony had, see attached.
the pushdown pin and the advancing lever have now another form, to help finding the hole better, but not giving too much force on the tape from above in full advanced state.
another one is that the gap was shrinked where the cover tape is peeled off.

would suggest to leave everything as is with the feeder you have in 1.6 and preferrably use these with paper tapes.
version 1.7 might work better for plastic tapes if one had issues with 1.6 previously.
if you would really like to upgrade from 1.6 to 1.7 you can reprint the little spring and the advancing lever. the other parts don't matter.

you could use the "split"function in slic3r to do so.

[Michael G.]

just pushed minor firmware update. I had issues with all feeder advancing if they were enabled and power turned on afterwards. hopefully they stand still now except they shall not ;)
https://github.com/mgrl/0816-feeder-firmware

michael

[Michael G.]

small update to version 1.71: the cover tape removal unit is now parametric and grows with the feeder for 12/16mm tapes.
nothing else changed. interface between cover tape removal unit and feeder remains the same, so there is no problem to mix newly printed parts with older parts...

[Olyozz]

has any one had success making this yet ?

On Friday, 15 December 2017 22:41:20 UTC, Michael G. wrote:

Hi!

Just had success with my updated feeders on plastic tapes. It seems a small feature after cover tape peeling does the trick to prevent parts from jumping out. Will experiment further and test whether it works at least 99% reliable ;) Paper tapes don't have the problem of jumping parts with this feeder design.

I uploaded the currentmost version as SolidWorks, STL and STEP-files to my page: https://docs.mgrl.de/maschine:pickandplace:feeder:automaticfeeders

Most of the documentation was updated to correspond to the current version already, some parts will be updated soon.

Anthony built one feeder (older version) already and we made a BOM for the US which I will check again and add to the page soon for easier sourcing.

Going to start to build some more feeder of the latest version now... If anybody would like to start these feeder, too, don't hesitate to contact me if you're missing details.

-michael

[Anthony Webb]

Hi Olyozz,

I have built several of these feeders, they are awesome and have been working flawlessly for our last few projects.

Thanks,

Anthony

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[Roger Gipson]

I am really impressed with this feeder.  Is there any place to get more of the printed models?  I would like to print the head and the latest camera lighting.  Thank you.

[Patricio Cohen Sch.]

Hello Michael,

Excellent work, congratulations.

This is my first attempt to build my own PnP machine and I intend to use your feeders in my design.

I have purchased the Smoothieboard for the motor section. 

Is it possible to use your feeder design in addition to the Smothieboard in the same machine?

Thank you very much

Patricio

[Michael G.]

Hi,

the feeder has it's own controller. it's independent from the motion controller. in openpnp you add just another subdriver to the g-code-driver for the feeder as described here: https://docs.mgrl.de/maschine:pickandplace:feeder:0816feeder:controller#setup_controller_in_openpnp

[Michael G.]

hi roger,

you mean the models of the machine itself? these are available as stp-file here: https://docs.mgrl.de/maschine:pickandplace

[tecfacet]

Really cool project.

I am interested in the lighting for top camera.

This there a 3d model for this bracket?  I was impressed.

Thank you,

Roger

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[Paul Jones]

FYI I’ve been working on a connection board which would take the place of your native shield to remove the need for the feeder pcb and associated tedious/bulky wiring. It’s basically a 35cm ruler with 25 x 6 pin headers evenly spread along it’s length, connected to I2C IO expanders and PWM drivers. This way the servos can plug in directly without cutting and soldering the cables, and the switch and motor only need to be soldered on one end.

I’ll likely connected the I2C to the RPI I use for network cameras as it’s right next to it on my machine, and then I can operate the feeders via ethernet (my whole machine uses ethernet).

I’ll put the kicad files on github when I’m finished.

 

Ps. Your mechanical design for the feeders is genius!

 

Paul.

 

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[Michael G.]

Sounds great! May I add it to the wiki page when it's finished?

[Marek T.]

Paul, for those who don't use kicad appreciated if you also put gerbers/drl and pdf on the git!

[Patricio Cohen Sch.]

Hello Michael,

Thank you very much for the info.

Have a nice day.

Patricio

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[Peter Betz]

On Friday, December 15, 2017 at 10:09:44 PM UTC-8, Anthony Webb wrote:

My 11 year old son has offered to put together an easy bag of parts for those of you who are looking for an easy way out to source the exact parts needed at one stop :)  I'll try and post up a tindie link in the coming days.  Additionally, we have the spreadsheet with the amazon links and such for the different parts we bought that I think will be coming to Michaels instructions as well.  

Parenting win!! Getting him involved with business is awesome and this would be such a great way to do it!  I'm still trying to get my feeder working (close now!) but I would certainly buy parts for a few of these ones if there was a parts kit to buy.

Peter.

[Jason von Nieda]

Count me in for buying some parts kits!

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[yu yf]

Hello my friend

   I made an autofeeder based on your design, and at the same time I produced Native Shield. Now, I have some problems. I can't use the actuator to read the vacuum inductance.  Thank you 

[Michael Gröne]

Hi,

I'm currently for holidays and have no Access to my data. What do you see in the logs after M143 A0 on console? Is the regex right?

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[Michael G.]

But found parts of my machine.xml:

<command head-mountable-id="ACT1501948780856" type="ACTUATOR_READ_COMMAND">
<text><![CDATA[M144 A0]]></text>
</command>
<command head-mountable-id="ACT1501948802499" type="ACTUATOR_READ_COMMAND">
<text><![CDATA[M144 A1]]></text>
</command>
<command head-mountable-id="ACT1501948802499" type="ACTUATOR_READ_REGEX">
<text><![CDATA[value:(?<Value>-?\d+\.{0,1}\d*)]]></text>
</command>
<command head-mountable-id="ACT1501948780856" type="ACTUATOR_READ_REGEX">
<text><![CDATA[value:(?<Value>-?\d+\.{0,1}\d*)]]></text>
</command>

[yu yf]

Thank you very much, it's working！

[Marius Liebenberg]

Can someone tell me what is the size of the extrusion that the feeder fits unto. I cannot open the design in Solidworks as mine is very old.

[Michael G.]

You should be able to open the stp files in solidworks, don't you? Could add a drawing next Monday to the wiki.

[Anthony Webb]

I believe 20x40 works

On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 8:40 AM, Marius Liebenberg <mdlca...@gmail.com> wrote:

Can someone tell me what is the size of the extrusion that the feeder fits unto. I cannot open the design in Solidworks as mine is very old.

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[Marius Liebenberg]

I have not tried that yet but I will. I am using Fusion 360 mostly these days so that might also be an option. I was not going to edit anything but just print it as you supplied it.

[Marius Liebenberg]

Excellent. That is the size of my frame.

On Wednesday, April 18, 2018 at 8:22:20 PM UTC+2, Anthony Webb wrote:

I believe 20x40 works

On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 8:40 AM, Marius Liebenberg <mdlca...@gmail.com> wrote:

Can someone tell me what is the size of the extrusion that the feeder fits unto. I cannot open the design in Solidworks as mine is very old.

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[Michael G.]

For stl files there is a great free viewer available: https://www.3d-tool.de/de_free-viewer-download.htm

It has some functions to analyze the model and it is very intuitive to use...

[Marius Liebenberg]

Thanks for the link. It's the best looking free software that I have seen in a long time. And it works great.

[Олександр Киричук]

Michael G.

Hello.

Thanks for the work you've done. I plan to use your feeders, but I have a problem: in SolidWorks, I can not change the value in the equations for model sweep under the 10mm, 24mm tape and others. What could be the problem?

[Michael G.]

have you seen that image on the site?

https://docs.mgrl.de/_detail/maschine:pickandplace:feeder:feeder_base_equation-editor.png

you should change only the first two values if you need to...

[Олександр Киричук]

Thank you. Already figured out. The problem was in my localization of SolidWorks. Because of this program produced a syntax error

понеділок, 23 липня 2018 р. 16:23:46 UTC+3 користувач Michael G. написав:

[X Y]

Hello, I want to make one for testing it, but am not sure how the cover tape removal unit is assembled. 
Is there a pin needed to hold the ball bearing? How is the gear wheel fixed to the motor axis?

Would be very nice to have any ideas on that. The rest is superb! Great docs, I really look forward to using it. 

[Michael G.]

Hi,

the gear should press-fit onto the n20-motor. I heared from somebody already that it was a bit loose on his printer. maybe overextrude a little bit if it's too loose. the other gear with the bearing inside gets fixed by a simple screw. the hole on one side is smaller than on the other so that the screw holds without a nut or something else.

[Marius Liebenberg]

I just modified the back n20 motor bracket to fit a continuous servo in place of the N20. I am sure that one only needs to take up the slack and the power might not be needed. Any ideas before I start printing?

[X Y]

Thank you very much. I got one feeder printed tonight, came out perfect in ABS. The parts fit well, but I found some small things we can do better already :-) I will add a few tweaks to get the n20 fixed without screws, and will enlarge the small fin on the feeder pin so I can use it with big fingers.

I got the STEP-files and they open up in Inventor 2013 perfectly. So I can tweak it now. Great work!

This is a really amazing design, and I am sure it will work perfect. Thank you very much for your work, this will solve a huge problem for me.

If I can do anything for you, I would be glad to help.

[Jonathan Oxer]

I've made a few of these feeders recently too, and I love them. Fantastic work, Michael!

I made a few changes by importing the STEP file into Fusion 360 and editing it there, so it's probably not practical to share these changes back directly. Changes I made:

 * Changed the clearance on the motor mount to allow use of the reversed gearbox version of the N20 sold by RobotDigg: https://www.robotdigg.com/product/927/Reverse-output-N20-geared-motor. This dramatically reduces the width of the motor assembly, which makes clearance between the feeders easier.

* Moved the back screw hole for the top spring backwards so it's directly over the servo shaft, and enlarged it so a screwdriver can go through to the servo horn while it's in place.

* Increased the width of the servo body space by 0.5mm on both sides, because I had a whole box of 9g servos left over from another project and they didn't quite fit.

* Decreased the size of the hole in the spur gear to make it fit more tightly onto the motor.

I also designed my own version of the controller shield, because I didn't need the vacuum sensors and I wanted to add an OLED screen to display events, part counts, etc.

I assembled one shield with the OLED fitted directly for testing feeders, and another shield with the OLED on a 4-pin cable (same as the feeders) so it could be mounted inside a 3D printed case on the front of the machine between 2 banks of feeders for permanent use.

My machine ("Miklmaekit") is currently undergoing a total rebuild to incorporate the feeders and replace the head assembly so it's not functional right now, but I'm hoping to have it back running soon. I'll be printing about another 20 of Michael's awesome feeders once the rest of the machine is updated.

Cheers

Jonathan Oxer

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[Marius Liebenberg]

 I am trying to get the cost reduced with this mod. Is there any reason that the servo will not be able to take up the tape slack?

[Michael G.]

glad to hear it's mostly working, thank you for your kind words.

will look through your modifications later and maybe I revise some of the parts then.

@jonathan: may I use some of your photos on the documentation site?

[Олег Перевышин]

Good job!

Share a link to your changes. I think it will be very good, to repeat your option.

понедельник, 27 августа 2018 г., 14:53:28 UTC+3 пользователь Jonathan Oxer написал:

[X Y]

There is a small flaw in the design which will lead to jumping parts I think. While placing thousands of Rs and Cs I found out that it is essential that the tape is kept from moving up or down. When the head picks up a part it presses it slightly down, some paper tapes are very thin and the part is punched through. Plastic tapes start to vibrate, which leads to parts jumping out. So I always cared for having some kind of support beneath the tapes.

In this feeder, the tape is pressed down a bit, but under the part pockets there is no support.

I changed the plans to include a wedge which presses to the bottom of the tape: It uses a spring to force the tape upward and fits all kind of 8mm tapes. 

I just printed one of them, and can check them today.

[Michael G.]

in older iterations I had some bottom support, too. but it was only on the side where no pockets are, since one can't ever know how deep the pockets will be and the resulting force.

have you seen the feature to adapt the line-height, see docs.mgrl.de. you can put a small M2 screw into the hole and push the plastics a little lower to make the line smaller for plastic tapes. was working for me...

[X Y]

I have seen that, but I often have paper tapes with very thin bottom, and my liteplacer pushes small parts through the paper now and then. I made my wedge now and it works perfect :-)

The wedge holds the tape perfectly to the top of the guide, so pickup height is also always the same, the parts sit there very solid now, fixed at both sides. 

A small video showing my first feeder is at https://youtu.be/FhZrJKbWxCo   Great design, really. For me the first really working printable feeder.

[Marius Liebenberg]

Are you willing to share the mods you made? What CAD did you use?

[X Y]

I use Inventor 2013 currently. I could transfer it to Fusion360 maybe. I will print a few of them and test everything, there are still a few things I will change to smooth things out. 

Then I would be happy to share it.

[Marius Liebenberg]

Thanks a lot for that. Fusion 360 will be great

[Jonathan Oxer]

Hi Michael,

Sure, feel free to use whatever you like. Those were quick photos I just took on my phone to show the motor mount change, but I plan to take better photos and document the changes once I've made a bit more progress and done some testing. I have my changes in Fusion 360 so if I can figure out how to share the design, I'll do it. I've only just started using Fusion 360 so I'm fumbling my way through it without really knowing what I'm doing. Unfortunately it's probably very hard to merge changes in the same way that source code can be merged. Maybe it'll be useful though.

Once again, thanks for your amazing work on this feeder.

Cheers

Jon

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[Michael G.]

just took over some changes from jonathan and updated the files. Version changed to 1.75. there are no breaking changes so one could combine new and old parts as you like...

[carl....@alumni.ubc.ca]

I'm planning to put an order in for some of Michael's native shields in the coming week. Likely be ordering from China so minimum 5-10 boards. Wondering if there's any interest from others for some of the native shields? I could always kick the order numbers up if need be, and will have a few spares at the very least.

[carl....@alumni.ubc.ca]

Ended up being dirt cheap to order 25 boards ($36 USD shipped) so I will have plenty of extras that I'll be happy to sell at cost.

[Robert Waters]

Id be in for a board.

[carl....@alumni.ubc.ca]

Boards arrived. Silkscreen got messed up but otherwise they look good. Anyone who would like a board can message me privately and I will get them sent out.

[Friedrich Mäckle]

Hi Michael,

I wanted to give some feedback (no criticism!) on the feeder, I now built 5 of them (Version 1.75), and they all seem to work, altough I did not use them in production yet. Also I printed the reel holder and the strip feeder, great stuff!

The feeders were printed using PLA, so there might be differences.

1. There seems to be a screw missing from the BOM, for the cover tape removal unit one needs a M3 * ~16mm screw

2. The inner diameter for mounting to the n20 motor is way too large on my print, I glued them for now

3. The M3 fixation screws are hard to screw in, but I know that is at the limit of 3D printing and will vary by material and printer

4. The small piece to block the cover tape tensioner is rather useless in my opinion, also one would not need them. I would not mind the plastic, but the part is rather fragile and could ruin a print if the part comes loose from the bed. I would recommend removing it from the print ready assemblies.

5. The retraction angle of the servo (Tower Pro Servos) at 0° is not really working for me, I had to slightly angle the mounting position of the pusher assembly outwards so it will reach 0° better. This is no problem when operated manually from the console using the set angle command, but when used from openpnp in a quick order of reatracting and advancing it does not seem to reach the first position. Maybe it would help to include a tip in the instructions because adjusting the mechanics seems easier to me than to fiddle around with the software parameters (anyways the servo goes to minimum 0°).

6. The Pin can easily made from wire nails (Drahtstift), I found matching ones which I then cut with the saw and used a hammer to put them in

Wishlist:

7. I feel that there should be another screw on the bottom near the feeder pcb since there is only one and the cables stuffed into the feeder will push the cover plate outwards

8. It would be great if the feeder would not raise that much on the back. I have Peters Head and inspecting the pickup location is at the absolute limit. The nozzle could get stuck in the cover tape and I have already lowered the position of the feeder to the maximum pick distance. I think it would no real issue if the feeder was longer.

9. Cable Management: I think this is somehow dependent of the machine, but I think the way it is shown in the pictures does not work out. I now guided the cables behind the mounting position. I have no idea how to solve it but I feel this could be improved.

10. Mounting could also be improved, screwing the feeders to the rail is okay, but could be better, I just pressed them together with an angle on both sides of the rail

Thanks for this design, maybe it is the best available 3D printable design yet. I would absolutely recommend it as it has solved the advancing mechanism reliably without parts jumping. If more people start printing those it could really bring OpenPNP forward.

Best, Friedrich

[Paul Jones]

I’m in the process of building a few of these myself. I changed all the screws to be M3 as that’s what I’ve got in stock, and I use a thread tap to thread all the holes. I even run the tap through the microswitch so I don’t need any nuts.

 

Paul.

 

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[Marius Liebenberg]

Michael, on version 1.7 there was a change to the slot size where the cover tape is fed through. It ended up being 0.2mm. I printed the unit with 0.4mm nozzle with 0.2mm layer. Most things work ok it's just the little slot that I dont get right. What was the reason for you to go that small please?

[Michael G.]

Hi,

I found it to be best as small as possible to keep the parts within the pockets. Maybe you could postprocess the slot with a knife? I use 0.4mm nozzle, too and have no problems at all...

[Michael G.]

Hi Friedrich,

thanks for the effort to put a list of possible enhancements here. I will look into that later and try to integrate as much as possible.

michael

[Balázs buglyó]

.

[Balázs buglyó]

Dear Michael.

I know that this is not a right place , but can you share you PNP machine design files too? 
Your head is very cool and i would like to build my own pnp too. 
I found a step file on the blog, but i think it is not the same as you show on your blog. 
The head jpg and the step file are different. 

Thanks for your help 

Balazs 

[Michael G.]

Hi Balazs,

the images and the step-file should show the same head. what images exactly do you mean? by blog you mean the wiki-pages, right?

[Balázs buglyó]

Hi!

https://docs.mgrl.de/_detail/maschine:pickandplace:openpnp-head.png?id=maschine%3Apickandplace and the https://docs.mgrl.de/_media/maschine:pickandplace:full-machine-assembly.zip is not the same.
I think this is not a problem just i want to get every info about it. The gear is different.
By the way your design is really cool i have many parts at home i plan to build a pnp. 
If i have question about the vacum system can i ask it on an another forum or private  ? :) 

[Marius Liebenberg]

Hi Michael

I imported the STEP files into Solidworks and made some changes. Only when I exported the part as an STL did I notice that the base did not import correctly. It has some error the makes inner surface not render at all. Can you assist with some advise please?

P.S. I tried the 12mm part as well with the same result.

[Michael G.]

you're right, I changed the gear, because I found there were massive vibrations on the z-axis, but the change didn't help. Then I switched from a4988 driver to tmc2100 driver with 256x microstepping interpolated and it's fine. don't know the cause of vibrations....

[Michael G.]

Hi Marius,

since the last edit I think I updated the solidworks version to 2017/2018. maybe that is causing issues with your version? I will look into that issue and try to reimport the files into my solidworks...

[Marius Liebenberg]

Hi Michael

I just tried to import the very oldest STEP files that I have of the project and it gives the same error. I think the oldest version I have is the v1.6.

[Michael G.]

okay, so it seems to have never worked... will try to find other export options, but I guess I can't do much about it.

[Marius Liebenberg]

I imported the base part into Fusion 360 and then exported it as a STP file. That imported into Solidworks perfectly. I made the changes in SW and exported as a STL. Seems to be OK.

Shall I send you the STP file or can I publish it somewhere together with the other couple of changes I made?

[Michael G.]

sure, just attach the files as you like