Dimmable Led

[nico]

Dear list,
i'm asking you some advice about hardware made to dimm led and led
themselves...
it's the early begining of a project where i'll need to dim several LED
(via DMX) and i would like to dim each of them separately.
it's not for theater, but rather a kind of 'installation'.

can you advise me also about LED material (3colours) that have enough
lumens and that can be dimmable.

many thanx in advance,
best regards,
Nicolas

[Peter Stuge]

nico wrote:
> i'm asking you some advice about hardware made to dimm led and led
> themselves...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse-width_modulation

> it's the early begining of a project where i'll need to dim several LED
> (via DMX) and i would like to dim each of them separately.
> it's not for theater, but rather a kind of 'installation'.
>
> can you advise me also about LED material (3colours) that have
> enough lumens and that can be dimmable.

Define "enough" - what do you want to light?

Depending on the installation, you may be able to use ready-made
strips of low-power, but individually controllable, LEDs.

http://www.adafruit.com/products/306

//Peter

[Michael Markstaller]

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Really, as a short answer: it's complicated and frustrating *if you
want to do it really right*

First thing to ask is wether you want to dim some "constant voltage"
strips (*1) -> PWM is rather easy, Simon has made an excellent project
(Arduino RGB-Mixer)
Or real power-LEDs (350,700mA)

I have some of them operational (CREE MC-E) -getting these reliable
working for years requires some electronics-knowledge (which I don't have)
So I went to get in-fixture drivers from eldoled (with DMX, driven by
ola for sure ;))

But it's an interesting topic, I don't think that outside of DIY,
geeks, ola and/or <$1000 there are many real sane solutions for this
on this planet :o

Michael

*1) which is (in temrs of the LED) crap, these burn Voltage into heat
with resistors, any LED wants a constant current, never a voltage..

- --
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[Matt Pelmear]

Are you looking for commercial hardware or hobbyist/DIY hardware?

If you're going the commercial-grade route, there are a number of
smaller control outfits that manufacture DMX controlled DC PWM dimmers
primarily intended to drive LEDs.
[dimmers from a quick google search:]
http://www.interstellar.com/products.html ("DC Dimmer 4CH")
http://www.digitallighting.com/protocolfolder/pd%20dimmer%20packs.html
http://celestialaudio.com/ca_dmx_32_nfet/index.html
LED strips are everywhere.

If you want to go the hobbyist-grade route:
Adafruit has a ton of LED stuff (as previously mentioned)
Sparkfun has a ton of LED stuff
Seeedstudio has a ton of LED stuff

The commercial stuff, of course, will be better quality in most cases,
while the hobbyist stuff will be cheaper.

Are you looking for strips of RGB LEDs to control as a whole, strips to
control each led individually, or a bunch of single LEDs to be controlled?
As Peter mentioned, you should also specify what you mean by "enough
lumens".

-Matt

[machosehead]

Your specifications were vague enough, maybe deliberately so. RGB
pixels are becoming popular with hobbyists.
http://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/701799/209889132-449802558/12mm-WS2801-pixel-module-IP66-DC5V-input-full-color.html
They are relatively cheap. Whether they are bright enough for you I
can't say. They do come with different LED modules based on the same
controller chip. You can buy a DMX controller/power supply or build a
DIY project. I recently built this:
http://doityourselfchristmas.com/forums/showthread.php?15286-DMX-to-WS2801-Pixel-Bridge

-MH

[nicolas]

I was well inspired by asking here ;-)
many thanx for your answers!!
and so let's go further

it's for a professional project so there's money that can be invest
(more or less ...), therefor i'll choose commercial stuff as Matt
Pelmear spot on.
i've looked at this board http://celestialaudio.com/ca_dmx_32_V2_nfet/index.html
wich seem to fit well for what i've to do.
as i can chain DMX, i can use 4 or 5 (or more) boards in 'serial'.

now regarding the LED themselves.
i think i need RVB Led to be able to change colors (this for example
http://www.led1.de/shop/lng/en/prolight-power-rgb-led-3-watt-star-6-pin-108-lumen.html).
to work with this kind of material, do you think i need a driver
(http://www.led1.de/shop/lng/en/highpower-leds/prolight-power-leds/
prolight-power-rgb-leds/solarox-pwmconstant-current-source-ksq350-for-
power-leds-350ma-9-40v-dimmable.html), or celestialaudio board will
fit well?
in case of celestialaudio, each LED will require 3 outputs, right?

another question,
http://wn.com/VU_LM3915
do you think this kind of material is controllable via DMX ?

best regards,
NIcolas

[Stefan Krüger]

Hello Nicolas,

On Friday, March 30, 2012 7:02:39 AM UTC+2, nicolas wrote:

I was well inspired by asking here ;-)
many thanx for your answers!!
and so let's go further

it's for a professional project so there's money that can be invest
(more or less ...), therefor i'll choose commercial stuff as Matt
Pelmear spot on.
i've looked at this board http://celestialaudio.com/ca_dmx_32_V2_nfet/index.html
wich seem to fit well for what i've to do.
as i can chain DMX, i can use 4 or 5 (or more) boards in 'serial'.

now regarding the LED themselves.
i think i need RVB Led to be able to change colors (this for example
http://www.led1.de/shop/lng/en/prolight-power-rgb-led-3-watt-star-6-pin-108-lumen.html).
to work with this kind of material,  do you think i need a driver
(http://www.led1.de/shop/lng/en/highpower-leds/prolight-power-leds/
prolight-power-rgb-leds/solarox-pwmconstant-current-source-ksq350-for-
power-leds-350ma-9-40v-dimmable.html), or celestialaudio board will
fit well?
in case of celestialaudio, each LED will require 3 outputs, right?

for high power leds (like the first link) you need constant current drivers. for every led-chip (color)  one and so you need 3 channels.

just look at http://www.dmx4all.de/DMX4ALL-LED-Driver/DMX-LED-Dimmer-16xRGB::512.html its like the dmx to pwm that you have linked to.
but with 16*RGB = 64channels in total and much cheaper ;-)
the dmx4all products are really good! (use theme @work often..)
this dimmer for example has the dmx and constant current part ready combined together and has four channels.
 

another question,
http://wn.com/VU_LM3915
do you think this kind of material is controllable via DMX ?

best regards,
NIcolas

 what do you want to control -
in the video there is a VU Level meter -
so it is controled by an audio Signal-
do you want to map audio to some light?
or do you want to control some normal single leds (like the leds in the video?)

sunny greetings

stefan

[nico]

Stefan,
thank you for participating at this...

Le 02/04/12 16:42, Stefan Krüger a écrit :

Hello Nicolas,

On Friday, March 30, 2012 7:02:39 AM UTC+2, nicolas wrote:

I was well inspired by asking here ;-)
many thanx for your answers!!
and so let's go further

it's for a professional project so there's money that can be invest
(more or less ...), therefor i'll choose commercial stuff as Matt
Pelmear spot on.
i've looked at this board http://celestialaudio.com/ca_dmx_32_V2_nfet/index.html
wich seem to fit well for what i've to do.
as i can chain DMX, i can use 4 or 5 (or more) boards in 'serial'.

now regarding the LED themselves.
i think i need RVB Led to be able to change colors (this for example
http://www.led1.de/shop/lng/en/prolight-power-rgb-led-3-watt-star-6-pin-108-lumen.html).
to work with this kind of material,  do you think i need a driver
(http://www.led1.de/shop/lng/en/highpower-leds/prolight-power-leds/
prolight-power-rgb-leds/solarox-pwmconstant-current-source-ksq350-for-
power-leds-350ma-9-40v-dimmable.html), or celestialaudio board will
fit well?
in case of celestialaudio, each LED will require 3 outputs, right?

for high power leds (like the first link) you need constant current drivers.

do you have links that points to current driver?

for every led-chip (color)  one and so you need 3 channels.

yep

just look at http://www.dmx4all.de/DMX4ALL-LED-Driver/DMX-LED-Dimmer-16xRGB::512.html its like the dmx to pwm that you have linked to.
but with 16*RGB = 64channels in total and much cheaper ;-)

why 3*16 = 64 channels?
ooh you count the ground for each led isn't it?

the dmx4all products are really good! (use theme @work often..)
this dimmer for example has the dmx and constant current part ready combined together and has four channels.
 

another question,
http://wn.com/VU_LM3915
do you think this kind of material is controllable via DMX ?

best regards,
NIcolas

 what do you want to control -
in the video there is a VU Level meter -
so it is controled by an audio Signal-
do you want to map audio to some light?
or do you want to control some normal single leds (like the leds in the video?)

let's say with 16 Leds plugged in one DMX channel, each 16 steps, leds are lighting...
in other words,
0 = 0 Led
1->16 = 1 led
16->32 = 2 leds
32->48 = 3Leds, etc...

best regards

sunny greetings

stefan

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[Stefan Krüger]

given later in original posting :-)
http://www.dmx4all.de/DMX4ALL-LED-Driver/DMX-LED-Dimmer-350-700mA::594.html
or without the dmx -
just constant current drivers with pwm input:
http://www.leds.de/en/Accessories/Power-supplies/Constant-current-supply.html (and for the complete  newer datasheet in german see pwm pad )
other option is this one:
Recom RCD-48 (pdf)

for every led-chip (color)  one and so you need 3 channels.

yep

just look at http://www.dmx4all.de/DMX4ALL-LED-Driver/DMX-LED-Dimmer-16xRGB::512.html its like the dmx to pwm that you have linked to.
but with 16*RGB = 64channels in total and much cheaper ;-)

why 3*16 = 64 channels?
ooh you count the ground for each led isn't it?

sorry - ist 48ch ;-) reading mistake^^

the dmx4all products are really good! (use theme @work often..)
this dimmer for example has the dmx and constant current part ready combined together and has four channels.
 

another question,
http://wn.com/VU_LM3915
do you think this kind of material is controllable via DMX ?

best regards,
NIcolas

 what do you want to control -
in the video there is a VU Level meter -
so it is controled by an audio Signal-
do you want to map audio to some light?
or do you want to control some normal single leds (like the leds in the video?)

let's say with 16 Leds plugged in one DMX channel, each 16 steps, leds are lighting...
in other words,
0 = 0 Led
1->16 = 1 led
16->32 = 2 leds
32->48 = 3Leds, etc...

hm - i think you can do something like this with an diy version with an arduino and some shift-registers just an idea - dont know if this is the right idea for the conzept...
 

[Peter Stuge]

nicolas wrote:
> it's for a professional project so there's money that can be invest

This helps.

> now regarding the LED themselves.
> i think i need RVB Led to be able to change colors (this for example
> http://www.led1.de/shop/lng/en/prolight-power-rgb-led-3-watt-star-6-
> pin-108-lumen.html).

I think I still don't understand the umfang of your installation is.
Do I understand correctly that your goal is 16 x ~30 lumen avgerage?

> http://wn.com/VU_LM3915
> do you think this kind of material is controllable via DMX ?

The question is unclear: The video demonstrates an audio based LED
controller. You ask if the "material" can be controllable by DMX.
I would answer no, the LM3915 is controlled by audio.

If you have no particular interest in designing a small
microcontroller system with a DMX receiver and control software and
hardware which connects to LED drivers such as the
http://www.led1.de/shop/lng/en/highpower-leds/prolight-power-leds/prolight-power-rgb-leds/solarox-pwmconstant-current-source-ksq350-for-power-leds-350ma-9-40v-dimmable.html
then I would suggest to stay with ready-made (expensive) building
blocks that you can simply plug together to get DMX control over
individual LEDs, and then do grouping in the controller instead.

//Peter

[nico]

Le 02/04/12 21:39, Peter Stuge a �crit :

> nicolas wrote:
>> it's for a professional project so there's money that can be invest
> This helps.
>
>
>> now regarding the LED themselves.
>> i think i need RVB Led to be able to change colors (this for example
>> http://www.led1.de/shop/lng/en/prolight-power-rgb-led-3-watt-star-6-
>> pin-108-lumen.html).
> I think I still don't understand the umfang of your installation is.
> Do I understand correctly that your goal is 16 x ~30 lumen avgerage?

nope, my goal is to have enough lumen per led.
in the link above, they say 108lm...

>
>
>> http://wn.com/VU_LM3915
>> do you think this kind of material is controllable via DMX ?
> The question is unclear: The video demonstrates an audio based LED
> controller. You ask if the "material" can be controllable by DMX.
> I would answer no, the LM3915 is controlled by audio.

ok,
rephrasing gives : with what kind of DMX controler would you achieve that.

>
> If you have no particular interest in designing a small
> microcontroller system with a DMX receiver and control software and
> hardware which connects to LED drivers such as the
> http://www.led1.de/shop/lng/en/highpower-leds/prolight-power-leds/prolight-power-rgb-leds/solarox-pwmconstant-current-source-ksq350-for-power-leds-350ma-9-40v-dimmable.html
> then I would suggest to stay with ready-made (expensive) building
> blocks that you can simply plug together to get DMX control over
> individual LEDs, and then do grouping in the controller instead.

i've ever made the software, and i think i will go with links previously
posted on this thread

Nicolas
>
>
> //Peter
>

[Peter Stuge]

nico wrote:
>> Do I understand correctly that your goal is 16 x ~30 lumen avgerage?
>
> nope, my goal is to have enough lumen per led.

You didn't explain what you consider enough, or what you want to
light, so it's difficult for anyone to provide a really good answer.
This can be very frustrating for people wanting to help.

> in the link above, they say 108lm...

Yes, that fits. It's three LEDs per package, R, G, and B, and they're
about 30 lumen each on average. Considering each individual colour's
lumen may actually be much more relevant than the total or the
average, all depending on what you want to light and how you want to
light it.

>>> http://wn.com/VU_LM3915
>>> do you think this kind of material is controllable via DMX ?
>> The question is unclear: The video demonstrates an audio based LED
>> controller. You ask if the "material" can be controllable by DMX.
>> I would answer no, the LM3915 is controlled by audio.
> ok,
> rephrasing gives : with what kind of DMX controler would you
> achieve that.

To achieve *what* exactly? Generate DMX signals from an audio
signal, or controlling some small LEDs from a DMX signal, or both, or
neither? You write "DMX controler" which would be the unit generating
the DMX communication, ie. the lighting desk - I'm not sure that's
what you mean? Please try to be much more specific about your idea?
I'm thoroughly confused.

Are you using the video as an example of some concrete technical
parameters (LM3915, audio input, small LEDs, etc..) or just as a
conceptual reference, instead of saying "I want to blink LEDs" ?

Specifically, the video shows nothing related to DMX, and nothing
related to driving high-power LEDs, which is what I think your
question was really about.

If I was lighting an "installation" and had some budget I would
design my own LED driver with a small microcontroller to control
it. The microcontroller would receive DMX from the DMX controller,
or use some other protocol from whatever controller there was.

I am absolutely not suggesting that this is the way everyone else
should do it, quite the contrary, it only makes sense for someone
who likes to develop things and also has the right experience and
toolbox - otherwise the project will quite easily become much too
expensive, or take much too long, or both.

> i think i will go with links previously posted on this thread

All right! I'm glad that you've gotten some helpful suggestions! :)

//Peter