Officers Resignations over the Emancipation Proclamation

[Tim]

In relation to my previous post, that of Capt. Putnam and his resignation from the Army in protest of this act, I was wondering something. Did this warrant a Dishonorable Discharge and in consequence not eligible for Pension? Seems to me I read that somewhere.

[Richard Lemmers]

If that was the case, then former Captain Putnam of the 31st O.V.I., Company H, put one over the government because on www.footnote.com the card referencing his pension record is shown.  So he had a pension which you can check at the National Archives in D.C. --- On Wed, 7/13/11, Tim <cbj...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Richard Lemmers]

Tim: You might be thinking about the 128th Illinois Infantry, a regiment raised in November 1862 and disbanded by orders from General Grant in April 1863.  That unit had massive desertions over a five month period because of opposition to Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation.  While the 128th lost 1 officer and 34 men to disease during its short existence it suffered 700 desertions.  The Colonel, Robert Hundley, and a number of other staff officers were dismissed from service.  What was left of the regiment was transferred over to the 9th Illinois.  Very few, only about half a dozen, of the field and staff from the 128th Illinois received pensions after the war, presumedly because they were not any of those dismissed. Its hard for us to realize today that many northerners from Lincoln's home state despised the idea of ending slavery, even though it helped end the war and was the right thing to do. A distant relative in my wife's maternal great great great grandmother's family, Nannie E. Smith, wrote a letter to a Mrs. R.J. Sharpe of Kentucky from Nannie's home in New Salem, Indiana, on February 7, 1863, in which she blasted the Lincoln administration and abolitionists, blaming them for the war and the draft which at that point had not as yet claimed any of her brothers.  She said she hoped that none of them would have to "go fight to free the durn Negroes."  Nannie Smith was a very distant relative of my wife's great great great maternal grandmother Martha Jane Ewalt, whose husband served in the Confederate cavalry in Missouri were they owned at least one or two slaves.  The Ewalt's had a cousin in the Union Army's 25th Ohio who was a Abolitionist.  It was one of the families split by the war. Richard

--- On Wed, 7/13/11, Tim <cbj...@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Tim <cbj...@gmail.com> Subject: Officers Resignations over the Emancipation Proclamation To: ohio-in-the...@googlegroups.com Date: Wednesday, July 13, 2011, 10:28 PM

[Anne Alt]

Richard:  I find this all fascinating to say the least--   Since you are so knowledgeable-- I was able to find where my great great grandfather William J. Williams and his brother Morris Williams (from Radnor, Delaware County, Ohio)--or possibly Troy Twp -- where they had signed up for the draft --- I know that Morris did serve -- and had pension, etc; however it is William J. Williams that I am in a quandry over.  His grave has a GAR star on it.. and I always leave flowers on his grave in Radnor Cemetery for him, but I can find nowhere where he might have served and have also found no record of a pension for him or his wife Lydia Ann Williams... I have checked grave info for vets and cannot find anything on him.  Wm J. Williams was born in 1819 in Wales and nothing in his obituary states he served either.. So If you can suggest some other way of determining why he would have a GAR star on his grave, I'd appreciate your thoughts, ideas and suggestions. --- On Thu, 7/14/11, Richard Lemmers <gtnps.ra...@yahoo.com> wrote:

[Greg Biggs]

Hello,

It has been a long time since I read this book but I recall that the
unit history of the 8th Ohio made mention of the discontent in the Army
of the Potomac when the Emancipation was announced. You might check
that source.

Greg Biggs

[Richard Lemmers]

Anne: If you already have searched the 5 Civil War soldier pensions for the 5 soldiers from Ohio who were named William J. Williams and none match your ancestor as to date of birth and death and place of residence then there are only a few other remote possibilities.  But in case you did not known of these 5 listed, the units they belonged to were... Battery C, First Ohio Heavy Artillery Company E, 27th Ohio Infantry Company B, 62nd Ohio Infantry Company E, 123rd Ohio Infantry (This one was promoted to corporal.  The others were all privates. Company K, 167th Ohio Infantry National Guard As far as I am aware none of the companies of these units were from Delaware County, but that doesn't matter if your ancestor was drafted.  I know of a soldier from Toledo who was drafted and served in a company that was from the north-east part of the state. The other possibility is that his middle initial was not listed on his pension.  There are 144 listings of Civil War soldiers from Ohio named William Williams and only five have the middle initial J.  Most do not have a middle initial given. Richard --- On Thu, 7/14/11, Anne Alt <celtica...@yahoo.com> wrote:

[Richard Lemmers]

Anne: Currently I don't have an active account with www.footnote.com but if someone did they could see a full sized image of the pension record card for an individual soldier.  I think ancestry.com has images of the cards too.  Those cards usually have the date of the veterans death on them.  Since your William J. Williams died on October 15, 1909 (I saw the info on his on Find A Grave using the info you had provided, birth 1819, died in Radnor, Delaware Co., Ohio) there would be an excellent chance that a deceased Civil War veteran from Ohio named William Williams whose date of death was October 15, 1909, as shown on his pension card, would be your relative. A diligent search could help narrow the field.  Several years ago, with the help of a cousin in Ohio, we were trying to find which Union veteran named John Adams of Ohio was our relative.  There were quite a few who we weeded out in our search and finally we found him based on his date of birth and death which we knew, and it turned out to be Private John Adams, Company D, 23rd Ohio, who had two brothers, Orin and Henry, in other regiments and to whom I'm related since they were all nephews of one of my great great grandmothers, Anna Christina Zimmer Froeliech. 15 years ago I had no idea that I had any relatives in the Civil War even though I was a long time student of that history.  With the help of the sources available on the Internet we have found five great great or great great great uncles and several first cousins that fought for the Union from Ohio and Indiana.  We even found distant cousins who were veterans from other states.  It just takes time and a willingness to search.  I also spent a number of very long days looking at records in the National Archives. Good luck.

Richard --- On Thu, 7/14/11, Anne Alt <celtica...@yahoo.com> wrote:

[jeff Branstrator]

Please stop any response to me and take me off any mailing list you have.

Thank you

Jeff Branstrator

[Anne Alt]

Richard:  Thanks so much for writing back and including information on Wm J Williams-- as well as giving some very interesting history on your own searches.. it makes me not feel quite so alone in my own searching.   I have the resources at Rutherford B Hayes Presidential Library--and have poured through the volumes of the rosters--but once again they don't give much... and as noted, William J Williams might as well be "John Smith" because of all the variations it could be.   I don't belong to Footnote; however I do belong to Ancestry dot com and have looked (putting in the pertinent info on Wm J Williams) along with Lydia's name etc, but didn't get a response that seemed to "fit"... But will check it out.. I feel very inadequate in that it seems like I search but get only tidbits.    With regard to Edward J. Bruner/Brunner the "musician" in his 30's serving from central Ohio, I have ordered the full military records on this man--hoping that there will be something I can go on to link him with who I am looking for and hopefully will give me a date of death--otherwise I'm going to think he may well have deserted (not a good thing) or that he decided to be a Southern sympathiser... or maybe he was one who "resigned" due to the Emancipation Proclamation...    Thanks once again for your info on my behalf.. apparently I put in too much info that didn't match exactly on Ancestry and that is why nothing came up for me...   Ray Ann

[Anne Alt]

Hi Richard:   Utilizing the search engine on Ancestry and only using William Williams and date of death--and Lydia A (his wife), I was able to find a William Williams who was listed in 1892 as having become an invalid... and Lydia A Williams filing as his widow--- Sadly although this sounds like a perfect "shoe in", as a Private in the 4th Ohio Cavalry, in Company K---it is not.  I found the roster for Company K and William Williams was age 22 in 1864---which does not coincide with 1819 as date of birth--and although the name Lydia A Williams was my great great great grandmother, this one listed was a widow ----and my Lydia died prior to William... so this is the stuff I'm faced with...   I really thought I had it --- until I realized that my Lydia died in 1902 and Wm J died in 1909...   I'm back to the old drawing board, once again...

--- On Fri, 7/15/11, Richard Lemmers <gtnps.ra...@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Richard Lemmers <gtnps.ra...@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Officers Resignations over the Emancipation Proclamation To: ohio-in-the...@googlegroups.com

Date: Friday, July 15, 2011, 8:29 AM

[Jan Myers]

Anne,

 

Please excuse my jumping in here, but I have found something that may help you.

 

Go to Ancestry.com and find the “Civil War Pension Index: General Index to Pension Files 1864-1934

 

Hope this helps.

 

Jan

 

 

 

---

[Anne Alt]

Thank you-- I welcome all thoughts, ideas, comments..   I went on Ancestry and ran the gammet and found the pension info which lists Lydia A. Williams as the widow--- when in fact, Wm J Williams outlived his wife Lydia--so my guess is that the pension card must be for another William Williams with a wife named Lydia who died after him.  In addition, the pension card said that William Williams was considered an Invalid in what looked to be 189_ (hard to read) and I had not heard thru the family nor did it give any indication on his lengthy obituary that he had been incapacitated.. but then one never knows.   That pension card stated William Williams (whose wife was Lydia) was with 4th Ohio Cavalry--Company K---however when I looked at the actual roster, the Wm Williams in the 4th Ohio Cav--Co. K was not born in 1819...    Therein lies the problem-- or at least my personal problem with Ancestry-- I can put info into  the search but it will give thousands of "hints" that don't even come close and I have to wade through page after page seeing names that don't even come close to William Williams... what is up with that???.  My other option is to "exact" everything and then I get nothing.. it's a frustrating situation.   I keep plugging away--have sent to NARA for two military files--I guess if I hit "paydirt" is was worth it--otherwise I've dumped $50 .. another sad situation..   --- On Sat, 7/16/11, Jan Myers <trueb...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hope this helps.   Jan

A diligent search could help narrow the field.  Several years ago, with the help of a cousin in Ohio , we were trying to find which Union veteran named John Adams of Ohio was our relative.  There were quite a few who we weeded out in our search and finally we found him based on his date of birth and death which we knew, and it turned out to be Private John Adams, Company D, 23rd Ohio, who had two brothers, Orin and Henry, in other regiments and to whom I'm related since they were all nephews of one of my great great grandmothers, Anna Christina Zimmer Froeliech. 15 years ago I had no idea that I had any relatives in the Civil War even though I was a long time student of that history.  With the help of the sources available on the Internet we have found five great great or great great great uncles and several first cousins that fought for the Union from Ohio and Indiana .  We even found distant cousins who were veterans from other states.  It just takes time and a willingness to search.  I also spent a number of very long days looking at records in the National Archives.

Good luck. Richard --- On Thu, 7/14/11, Anne Alt <celtica...@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Anne Alt <celtica...@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Officers Resignations over the Emancipation Proclamation To: ohio-in-the...@googlegroups.com Date: Thursday, July 14, 2011, 12:57 PM Richard:  I find this all fascinating to say the least--   Since you are so knowledgeable-- I was able to find where my great great grandfather William J. Williams and his brother Morris Williams (from Radnor, Delaware County, Ohio)--or possibly Troy Twp -- where they had signed up for the draft --- I know that Morris did serve -- and had pension, etc; however it is William J. Williams that I am in a quandry over.  His grave has a GAR star on it.. and I always leave flowers on his grave in Radnor Cemetery for him, but I can find nowhere where he might have served and have also found no record of a pension for him or his wife Lydia Ann Williams... I have checked grave info for vets and cannot find anything on him.  Wm J. Williams was born in 1819 in Wales and nothing in his obituary states he served either.. So If you can suggest some other way of determining why he would have a GAR star on his grave, I'd appreciate your thoughts, ideas and suggestions. --- On Thu, 7/14/11, Richard Lemmers <gtnps.ra...@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Richard Lemmers <gtnps.ra...@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Officers Resignations over the Emancipation Proclamation To: ohio-in-the...@googlegroups.com Date: Thursday, July 14, 2011, 8:18 AM Tim:

You might be thinking about the 128th Illinois Infantry, a regiment raised in November 1862 and disbanded by orders from General Grant in April 1863.  That unit had massive desertions over a five month period because of opposition to Lincoln 's Emancipation Proclamation.  While the 128th lost 1 officer and 34 men to disease during its short existence it suffered 700 desertions.  The Colonel, Robert Hundley, and a number of other staff officers were dismissed from service.  What was left of the regiment was transferred over to the 9th Illinois .  Very few, only about half a dozen, of the field and staff from the 128th Illinois received pensions after the war, presumedly because they were not any of those dismissed.

[Jan Myers]

Anne,

 

I found a William J Williams in the US Civil War Draft Registration Records, 1863-1865 from Radnor, Delware, OH.  This person was 44 at the time.

 

Is the GAR star on his headstone or is it one that is on a metal rod and pushed into the ground? 

[Judy Miller]

Don't go with "exact" or you will probably get very little info.
Try different spellings of the names. My ancestry is the Clingaman family. However, in Germany or whatever country they had no C in their alphabet so it was Klingman, Klingaman, Klingerman, etc. The Americanized version was Clingman, Clingeman, etc.
Try different years as well. Everything online said my great-great grandfather had died in 1891 but after going to the cemetery, the gravestone read 1853.

It takes time, patience and experimentation I'm finding out.
I will do a little looking if you don't mind.
Good luck,
Judy

[Judy Miller]

I meant to say he died in 1851 when in fact he died in 1853 or at least that is what it reads.

The town my great grandfather and his brother enlisted in has since been renamed. That is another issue. It takes time and patience as I wrote before. I don't have a lot of patience but it is rewarding when it pays off.
Judy

[OVVI]

On Jul 16, 5:05 pm, "Jan Myers" <trueblue...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Anne,
>
> I found a William J Williams in the US Civil War Draft Registration Records,
> 1863-1865 from Radnor, Delware, OH.  This person was 44 at the time.
>
> Is the GAR star on his headstone or is it one that is on a metal rod and
> pushed into the ground?  
>
> Jan
>
>   _____  

Hope you dont mind another "voice" weighing in on your search. My
first thought is that if W. Williams grave has a GAR flagholder, it is
possible that it is mismarked. I am the Graves Registration officer
for the Ohio Dept of the Sons of Union Veterans of the Civil War and I
can tell you that I have been in many cemeteries throughout Ohio and
the amount of graves mismarked is large. In many cases, the cemetery
caretakers take up the flagholders when they mow and then they dont
remember which grave it needs to be returned to. Then the GAR marker
gets stuck in a random grave and it can be marked wrong for years.
The SUVCW has done extensive grave registrations for Delaware
County and our records have no entry for William J. Williams. The
1890 Veterans Census (accessed thru Ancestry.com) has a William G.
Williams who was Chaplain for the 145th OVI. This Williams was a
member of the GAR Post (Torrence #60) at Delaware and is buried at Oak
Grove Cemetery.
Im beginning to suspect that your W J Williams registered for the
draft in 1864 but wasnt taken. Those who were drafted were not
immediately assigned to units but were sent enmass to places like
Chattanooga where they were given to units who were in need of
replacements.

Kent Dorr
Graves Registration
Ohio Dept SUVCW

[Anne Alt]

Hi Jan:   I found the same information -- Wm J is listed right next to his brother Morris--   The GAR star is on a metal rod pushed into the ground.  I was suprised to have seen this--but it is only in recent years that I located where he was buried there in Radnor Cemetery--it is a small headstone and covered with lichens--so it was hard to read..  Having known of his more "advanced" age, and never having heard thru the family that he had served nor having read any account in his obituary, I was surprised to see the GAR star beside his headstone.    Ray Ann

--- On Sat, 7/16/11, Jan Myers <trueb...@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Jan Myers <trueb...@gmail.com> Subject: RE: Wm J Williams-- Hi Jan--thanks for jumping in.. To: ohio-in-the...@googlegroups.com Date: Saturday, July 16, 2011, 5:05 PM Anne,

I found a William J Williams in the US Civil War Draft Registration Records, 1863-1865 from Radnor, Delware , OH .  This person was 44 at the time.

Is the GAR star on his headstone or is it one that is on a metal rod and pushed into the ground?

Jan

From: ohio-in-the...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ohio-in-the...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Anne Alt Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2011 4:48 PM To: ohio-in-the...@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: Wm J Williams-- Hi Jan--thanks for jumping in..

Thank you-- I welcome all thoughts, ideas, comments..

I went on Ancestry and ran the gammet and found the pension info which lists Lydia A. Williams as the widow--- when in fact, Wm J Williams outlived his wife Lydia --so my guess is that the pension card must be for another William Williams with a wife named Lydia who died after him.  In addition, the pension card said that William Williams was considered an Invalid in what looked to be 189_ (hard to read) and I had not heard thru the family nor did it give any indication on his lengthy obituary that he had been incapacitated.. but then one never knows.

[Anne Alt]

Yep Judy:  I have had the "Americanization" of my German great-grandfather's surname--so totally understand with regard to different spellings.   There hasn't been any concern about the Williams surname--it is just whether he was simply listed as William or William J---the latter he was known as all his life, but we all know the Army has THEIR way in those instances.  The biggest thing to overcome is the many people with that name.. the only one that would be even tougher to distinguish would be John Smith...    Also fighting with records that were vague in terms of information given--when you have 10 William Williams from one county in a state, it makes it very hard to determine if any one of them is mine or not--but I've been working on my family's history for many years and traveled to England and Wales in my pursuit--so I dont give up all that easily..   Thanks for your input!!..   Ray Ann --- On Sat, 7/16/11, Judy Miller <whiter...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Anne Alt]

Hi Kent:   Thanks very much for your echoing thoughts I had early on--and had tried to find someone in the position that would know--or have lists of the veterans buried in Radnor Cemetery in Radnor, Ohio.    Once having seen the record on Ancestry of the draft registration and seeing his name beside his brother's name (and knowing Morris--his brother--had served), I thought there could be a possibility that William had indeed served.  But thus far, I am not getting too much that indicates he was a veteran, but I'll keep looking with the hopes that something turns up.   I have, for as long as i can remember, had family friends as Radnor Cemetery caretakers, then cousins who currently are the caretakers there (in the summer)...but can't vouch for who might have placed the GAR marker on his grave or if it had been moved from someone else.  It appears to be in the ground very solidly--but there is always a chance that someone just plain goofed...   I appreciate your thoughts--and they seem to echo mine!!   Ray Ann   --- On Sat, 7/16/11, OVVI <Dorr...@aol.com> wrote:

From: OVVI <Dorr...@aol.com> Subject: Re: Wm J Williams-- Hi Jan--thanks for jumping in..

[Judy Miller]

I think the others are correct. He did register but he was older.
I did find a William J. Williams listed in the 27th OVI, Co. E from the same area.
Judy

[Judy Miller]

All the local relatives I have found had the stars beside their graves, pushed into the ground. However, I have proof that they served. Do you suppose it depends on the location of the graves? My great grandfather died in 1951 and his brother died in 1902. They are not in the same cemetery but not too far apart in distance.
Judy

[Judy Miller]

Did your William have four children named Lydia, Homer, Edward and Mary? If so, I found a nice picture of them on ancestry.
Judy

[Judy Miller]

Here is a link to my great grandfather's gravestone. http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=9750487&PIpi=40618536
As you can see, the star is separate. He has two brothers who were also in the war and their stars are separate.
Judy

[Anne Alt]

Hi Judy:   Yes it is my photo that I posted... and from my account..   Ray Ann

--- On Sun, 7/17/11, Judy Miller <whiter...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Anne Alt]

Hi Judy:   Yes, the GAR star is a stake-type just as the one you have shown me in the photo on my great great great grandfather's grave (Wm J Williams)...   I'll have a look and see what I can find with regard to the age of the William J Williams in the27th OVI-- Company E -- too bad there isn't anything else that I can find in terms of pension--- he outlived his wife by 7 years--so one would think he would have tapped into his pension..   Ray Ann

--- On Sun, 7/17/11, Judy Miller <whiter...@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Judy Miller <whiter...@gmail.com> Subject: Re: Wm J Williams-- Hi Judy: definitely understand the diff names/dates.. To: ohio-in-the...@googlegroups.com

[Judy Miller]

You are fortunate to have such a good picture. I do have some original pictures but not of the entire family. I do have the original picture taken in 1865 for my great grandfather in his Civil War uniform. I first saw it a few months ago. Having seen mostly pictures of him at 100 plus, it was a shock. He was cute and 101 years older than me.
I grew up in the house he built so I was used to seeing Civil War items. Now I have his sword. I assumed most families had someone in the Civil War.
Are you having the horrible heat?
Judy

[Judy Miller]

William's daughter was named Lydia also. Could she have claimed it? I know it says widow but things are often wrong.

I think every grave I've seen in this area from Civil War vets has a stake beside the grave. Some have plaques or writing on the gravestones also.

I have a question concerning my great uncle's grave markers.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=14902445

He is a brother to my great grandfather but served in the 10th Cavalry earlier in the war. He was an Ohio resident until after the war when he moved to Michigan.
I have not yet visited the grave but this is a picture that was on Find-A-Grave. It confirms he was in the Civil War but he has two markers.
Does anyone know what the other marker would be?
In years after the war when he was in Michigan, he was listed as having served in the Civil War but as a Michigan resident who served in Ohio.
Could that have anything to do with it?
Judy

[Jan Myers]

Judy,

 

I think the one in question is a “U.S. VETERAN” marker.  http://www.flagguys.com/gmarker.html

 

You can use your “zoom” tool under “view” to get a close up to help.

 

Jan Myers

 

---

[Judy Miller]

Jan,
You are probably correct about the marker. Now that begs the question of why he got one in Michigan but his brothers in Ohio didn't get one. Could it have been a state thing? His wife died before he did.
Thanks for the link.
Judy

[Bruce]

In the roster presented in Maj. Charles H Smith's "The History of
Fuller's Ohio Brigade", the William J. Williams in the 27th OVI Co. E,
Mustered in July 20, 1861 at the age of 19. So he would have been born
in 1842. From Larry Stevens work, Co. E was organized at Keystone
Furnace, Jackson County but included recruits from Gallia and Lawrence
Counties also. Did William J. Williams have a son named William? I
found that back then, sons were often named the same as their fathers,
and not necessarily the oldest son.
Bruce

On Jul 17, 5:12 pm, Anne Alt <celticances...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi Judy:
>  
> Yes, the GAR star is a stake-type just as the one you have shown me in the photo on my great great great grandfather's grave (Wm J Williams)...
>  
> I'll have a look and see what I can find with regard to the age of the William J Williams in the27th OVI-- Company E -- too bad there isn't anything else that I can find in terms of pension--- he outlived his wife by 7 years--so one would think he would have tapped into his pension..
>  
> Ray Ann
>

> --- On Sun, 7/17/11, Judy Miller <whiterive...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> From: Judy Miller <whiterive...@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Wm J Williams-- Hi Judy: definitely understand the diff names/dates..
> To: ohio-in-the...@googlegroups.com
> Date: Sunday, July 17, 2011, 11:36 AM
>

> Here is a link to my great grandfather's gravestone.http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=9750487&PIpi=40...

> As you can see, the star is separate. He has two brothers who were also in the war and their stars are separate.
> Judy
>

> On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 10:54 AM, Judy Miller <whiterive...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I think the others are correct. He did register but he was older.
> I did find a William J. Williams listed in the 27th OVI, Co. E from the same area.
> Judy
>

> On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 11:28 PM, Anne Alt <celticances...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Yep Judy:  I have had the "Americanization" of my German great-grandfather's surname--so totally understand with regard to different spellings.
>  
> There hasn't been any concern about the Williams surname--it is just whether he was simply listed as William or William J---the latter he was known as all his life, but we all know the Army has THEIR way in those instances.  The biggest thing to overcome is the many people with that name.. the only one that would be even tougher to distinguish would be John Smith... 
>  
> Also fighting with records that were vague in terms of information given--when you have 10 William Williams from one county in a state, it makes it very hard to determine if any one of them is mine or not--but I've been working on my family's history for many years and traveled to England and Wales in my pursuit--so I dont give up all that easily..
>  
> Thanks for your input!!..
>  
> Ray Ann
>

> --- On Sat, 7/16/11, Judy Miller <whiterive...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> From: Judy Miller <whiterive...@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Wm J Williams-- Hi Jan--thanks for jumping in..
> To: ohio-in-the...@googlegroups.com
> Date: Saturday, July 16, 2011, 6:32 PM
>
> Don't go with "exact" or you will probably get very little info.
> Try different spellings of the names. My ancestry is the Clingaman family. However, in Germany or whatever country they had no C in their alphabet so it was Klingman, Klingaman, Klingerman, etc. The Americanized version was Clingman, Clingeman, etc.
> Try different years as well. Everything online said my great-great grandfather had died in 1891 but after going to the cemetery, the gravestone read 1853.
>
> It takes time, patience and experimentation I'm finding out.
> I will do a little looking if you don't mind.
> Good luck,
> Judy
>

> On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 4:48 PM, Anne Alt <celticances...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Thank you-- I welcome all thoughts, ideas, comments..
>  
> I went on Ancestry and ran the gammet and found the pension info which lists Lydia A. Williams as the widow--- when in fact, Wm J Williams outlived his wife Lydia--so my guess is that the pension card must be for another William Williams with a wife named Lydia who died after him.  In addition, the pension card said that William Williams was considered an Invalid in what looked to be 189_ (hard to read) and I had not heard thru the family nor did it give any indication on his lengthy obituary that he had been incapacitated.. but then one never knows.
>  
> That pension card stated William Williams (whose wife was Lydia) was with 4th Ohio Cavalry--Company K---however when I looked at the actual roster, the Wm Williams in the 4th Ohio Cav--Co. K was not born in 1819... 
>  
> Therein lies the problem-- or at least my personal problem with Ancestry-- I can put info into  the search but it will give thousands of "hints" that don't even come close and I have to wade through page after page seeing names that don't even come close to William Williams... what is up with that???.  My other option is to "exact" everything and then I get nothing.. it's a frustrating situation.
>  
> I keep plugging away--have sent to NARA for two military files--I guess if I hit "paydirt" is was worth it--otherwise I've dumped $50 .. another sad situation..
>  
>

> --- On Sat, 7/16/11, Jan Myers <trueblue...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> From: Jan Myers <trueblue...@gmail.com>
> Subject: RE: Wm J Williams-- Richard
> To: ohio-in-the...@googlegroups.com
> Date: Saturday, July 16, 2011, 3:11 PM
>
> Anne,
>  
> Please excuse my jumping in here, but I have found something that may help you.
>  
> Go to Ancestry.com and find the “Civil War Pension Index: General Index to Pension Files 1864-1934
>  
> Hope this helps.
>  
> Jan
>  
>  
>  
>

> From: ohio-in-the...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ohio-in-the...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Anne Alt
> Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2011 12:17 AM
> To: ohio-in-the...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Wm J Williams-- Richard
>  
>
> Hi Richard:
>
>  
>
> Utilizing the search engine on Ancestry and only using William Williams and date of death--and Lydia A (his wife), I was able to find a William Williams who was listed in 1892 as having become an invalid... and Lydia A Williams filing as his widow--- Sadly although this sounds like a perfect "shoe in", as a Private in the 4th Ohio Cavalry, in Company K---it is not.  I found the roster for Company K and William Williams was age 22 in 1864---which does not coincide with 1819 as date of birth--and although the name Lydia A Williams was my great great great grandmother, this one listed was a widow ----and my Lydia died prior to William... so this is the stuff I'm faced with...
>
>  
>
> I really thought I had it --- until I realized that my Lydia died in 1902 and Wm J died in 1909...
>
>  
>
> I'm back to the old drawing board, once again...
>
>  
>

> --- On Fri, 7/15/11, Richard Lemmers <gtnps.ranger_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
> From: Richard Lemmers <gtnps.ranger_1...@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: Officers Resignations over the Emancipation Proclamation
> To: ohio-in-the...@googlegroups.com
> Date: Friday, July 15, 2011, 8:29 AM
>
> Anne:
>

> Currently I don't have an active account withwww.footnote.combut if someone did they could see a full sized image of the pension record card for an individual soldier.  I think ancestry.com has images of the cards too.  Those cards usually have the date of the veterans death on them.  Since your William J. Williams died on October 15, 1909 (I saw the info on his on Find A Grave using the info you had provided, birth 1819, died in Radnor, Delaware Co., Ohio) there would be an excellent chance that a deceased Civil War veteran from Ohio named William Williams whose date of death was October 15, 1909, as shown on his pension card, would be your relative.

>
> A diligent search could help narrow the field.  Several years ago, with the help of a cousin in Ohio , we were trying to find which Union veteran named John Adams of Ohio was our relative.  There were quite a few who we weeded out in our search and finally we found him based on his date of birth and death which we knew, and it turned out to be Private John Adams, Company D, 23rd Ohio, who had two brothers, Orin and Henry, in other regiments and to whom I'm related since they were all nephews of one of my great great grandmothers, Anna Christina Zimmer Froeliech.
>
> 15 years ago I had no idea that I had any relatives in the Civil War even though I was a long time student of that history.  With the help of the sources available on the Internet we have found five great great or great great great uncles and several first cousins that fought for the Union from Ohio and Indiana .  We even found distant cousins who were veterans from other states.  It just takes time and a willingness to search.  I also spent a number of very long days looking at records in the National Archives.
>
> Good luck.
>
> Richard
>

> --- On Thu, 7/14/11, Anne Alt <celticances...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
> From: Anne Alt <celticances...@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: Officers Resignations over the Emancipation Proclamation
> To: ohio-in-the...@googlegroups.com
> Date: Thursday, July 14, 2011, 12:57 PM
>
> Richard:  I find this all fascinating to say the least--
>
>  
>
> Since you are so knowledgeable-- I was able to find where my great great grandfather William J. Williams and his brother Morris Williams (from Radnor, Delaware County, Ohio)--or possibly Troy Twp -- where they had signed up for the draft --- I know that Morris did serve -- and had pension, etc; however it is William J. Williams that I am in a quandry over.  His grave has a GAR star on it.. and I always leave flowers on his grave in Radnor Cemetery for him, but I can find nowhere where he might have served and have also found no record of a pension for him or his wife Lydia Ann Williams... I have checked grave info for vets and cannot find anything on him.  Wm J. Williams was born in 1819 in Wales and nothing in his obituary states he served either.. So If you can suggest some other way of determining why he would have a GAR star on his grave, I'd appreciate your thoughts, ideas and suggestions.
>

> --- On Thu, 7/14/11, Richard Lemmers <gtnps.ranger_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

[Anne Alt]

Hi Bruce:   To answer your question.. William J Williams was the 2nd born son to John and Mary Williams nee Williams.  William was born in 1819 in Wales and came here at the age of 18 or 19---and there is no disputing the year of birth as it has been documented so many  times.  Interestingly, both William and his brother Morris (born in 1820) are listed on the draft registration--and Morris served and spent the remainder of his life with a miniball still in his arm.  He is buried at Thompson Chapel Cemetery which is just a few miles away from Radnor Cemetery where William J and his wife Lydia Ann are buried.  Both brothers married sisters..   William J and his wife Lyida Ann had two sons, Edward Thomas and Homer Benjamin--neither named for their father.   I keep hoping that there was no mistake--that the GAR star was put there on his grave correctly--but it is appearing more likely that his age may have been against him and he was not called to serve.  I am going to dig further with the hopes that I will have a definitive answer.  --- On Mon, 7/18/11, Bruce <blam...@hotmail.com> wrote:

From: Bruce <blam...@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Wm J Williams-- Hi Judy: re: GAR star.. thanks for sending me the info & photo

To: "Ohio in the Civil War" <ohio-in-the...@googlegroups.com>