Giving up on node.js / Flatiron / hook.io

[Marak Squires]

Internet Friends -

I'm sure it will come as a pleasant surprise for most of you to hear I'm leaving node.js for good. I'll also be stepping down from any involvement with Flatiron and completely shutting down hook.io

In all honesty, I don't think there is much of a loss here for anyone.

The Flatiron framework is pretty much pointless and I'd advise against using it. I started to add some really good reflection features, but since my access has now been removed from Flatiron, I'll no longer be able to advance or maintain any of these features. 

The same advice goes for hook.io. hook.io was a great idea, but it's been systematically made obsolete by Nodejitsu in favor of a closed source priority solution. I'd love to be able to share this with you, but it's closed source, so thats that. I was rebuilding hook.io to use Flatiron, but without the ability to work on Flatiron anymore, it's all moot.

It's really sad to wind all this down, but I don't have a choice in the matter. I've been fired from Nodejitsu and no longer have the resources or git commit access to move any of this stuff forward.

Anyway, thanks for all the good and bad times and goodbye.

[Adam Crabtree]

Sad to hear. It sounds like you won't be able to (or maybe don't want to, understandable), but will you be able to make any of your work toward 0.9 or its integration with Flatiron available anywhere? Were you planning to give ownership of the npm hook.io package, google group or github repo to anyone? I'll be forking, though it'd be nice if you planned to shut it all down to possibly hand these over (esp the github Issues).

Either way, best of luck in the future.

Cheers,

Adam

[Michael Schoonmaker]

Seconded.

[secoif]

You aren't punishing anyone but your fans if you give up now Marak. You don't need write access, this is open source. If you build it, they will come.

[Brandon Griggs]

A pleasant surprise?  I obviously know nothing about the nodejitsu firing, but your tutorials and IRC help were invaluable in getting me up on node and our start-up off the ground.  For that you have my sincere thanks and we'll certainly miss your presence.

-Brandon

[Marak Squires]

Hey, I would do that, but I simply don't have the resources.

I have no means to eat right now, let alone maintain open-source projects. I have no idea what I'll be doing next. No one is going to pay for the development of these tools, and I'm not going to ask anyone to.

I'd go homeless ( again ) and continue to write open-source all day, but I just don't see the point in it anymore.

I don't have the money or energy to continue. Starting over again for no real reason and with no budget is too daunting. I can't see a reason why I would want to endure any of this again.

On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 9:12 PM, secoif <sec...@gmail.com> wrote:

You aren't punishing anyone but your fans if you give up now Marak. You don't need write access, this is open source. If you build it, they will come.

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[Srirangan]

http://www.reddit.com/r/Meditation/

Srirangan  |  +91 9711 477 595  |  About   GitHub  LinkedIn  Twitter  |  Review19  "Collaborate & Track Decisions"

[Tim Dickinson]

Ah dude you must be supper pissed. 

My point of view is there's no reason to go public with this. I don't care what happens as you would be replaced with the next open-source project. I look at your git page and you have nearly 1000+ follower.. Man I only have 9! You need to get off your high horse.  if everyone felt the way you do there would be nothing. Step into my shoes.. no one uses my code.. hell no one has even read my code. Does that matter? NO! Its not about the fame or glory, its about the love for coding and that's all that matters!

On Tuesday, September 11, 2012 11:56:45 AM UTC-4, Marak Squires wrote:

[Filipe]

Tim, when you already have food on the table, right?

[Ro Rao]

Hi all, the company I work for (Speek) is looking for a Node/JS developer.  Anyone interested, please email me at r...@speek.com

Thanks,
Ro

Node / Backbone Developer at Speek in Reston, VA

About Us:

Speek is a funded startup disrupting the conference calling space.  We were founded by 2 seasoned Internet entrepreneurs and are located in "Fishbowl Labs" inside of AOL's Dulles, VA campus.  We are funded by 500 Startups and spend a lot of time in their Mountain View, CA offices.  

Care more about results than processes and rules?  Want to disrupt an antiquated billion dollar industry?  Love new technologies and want to hang out with a bunch of people that love it too?  Read further.

Responsibilities:

• Write Node.js and Backbone.js code for the part of our app that users see while a call is in progress.
• Write HTML5 / CSS3 / JS / PHP code for the rest of the app.
• Help us roll out NoSQL.
• Help implement our state persistence store using Redis
• Help us scale our product to millions of users.

Requirements:

• Years of experience matter less than demonstrable ability.
• Proficiency in Node, Backbone, JavaScript, HTML5, CSS3, PHP.
• Ridiculously smart.
• Passion for Internet and Mobile apps.
• A great attitude and personality.
• Willing to work full time from "Fishbowl Labs" in Dulles, VA.

Bonus Points:

• visual design experience
• user interface design experience
• mobile app experience
• NoSQL expertise
• WebRTC knowledge
• Browser-based Audio / Video experience
• SIP / Jingle / XMPP expertise

 

Before You Apply:

Please provide:

• 5 bullet points of the most interesting things about your job experience
• an updated LinkedIn profle
• Why do you think you'd be a good fit for Speek?

Perks:

• We are on a lightning-fast trajectory to change the world and melt people's faces in the process.   Join the ride.
• We work from Fishbowl Labs in AOL which comes with awesome stuff like game rooms, gym, food and other amenities.
• We only hire super smart "A" players so you will be surrounded by people at the top of their game.
• As a 500 Startups portfolio company we have access to their network of mentors.  This means that you can talk with the best and brightest within the industry in a moment's notice.

[Jeff Barczewski]

Yes, it would be beneficial for both sides to communicate a summary of what transpired to get to this point, rather than leaving this nebulous cloud over everything.

Marak, have you looked into those companies that were trying to hire Node developers? (If moving is an option, then NodeUp sponsors like Clock and Bislr are a few that come to mind)



On Wednesday, 12 September 2012 10:43:15 UTC-5, Zeus wrote:

So what was Nodejitsu's reasoning in all this? Your tone make it seem you feel that they fired you unjustly. 

Best,

Zeus

[Micheil Smith]

Wasn't wanting to add into this, but reading between the lines it reads as if there
was a conflict of interest, Marak was developing something open-source that was
seen as a potential competitor to the closed-source product he was being paid to
work on.

Which, if he wished to not stop work on that potential competitor, then sure, sounds
fine to dismiss him from the position he held at the company.

And then, all that aside, I can understand being angry at a company, but the tone
of that email was way off. Sure, if people ask you directly as to why, you can say
something to them about it, but no need to make a massive show out of it.

– Micheil

[Mikeal Rogers]

It is beyond foolish to speculate about why someone was fired from an announcement like this.

I suggest you ask Marak or someone else at nodejitsu you know personally why this happened if you find it necessary to gossip.

-Mikeal

[Jeff Barczewski]

Mikeal, just to clarify, I'm not asking so I can gossip, but just want to have some understanding about what is going on in the node.js community both with the people and with the companies, if I am going to refer to others or deal with them in the future.

[Tim Dickinson]

Get a job!

[Micheil Smith]

Really, that was just me getting a wee bit annoyed at the idea of the whole dramatisation
here. If a company fires you, they either had a reason to, or, you have a lawsuit you can
probably press, if you really want to.

No need to make a big noise about it and try to paint them out as evil or wrong or whatever,
it's fine though if someone asks that you're honest about it, but do we really need to
discussion or even here about Marak's firing on the Node.js mailing list? As far as I'm
concerned, not really, no.

– Micheil

[Adam Crabtree]

When a leader departs from a community like this, a reasonable explanation helps answer the most basic questions that are on everyone's minds, while setting expectations of privacy in what they chose not to share. We should respect that and appreciate Marak's willingness to share personal details for the sake of greater clarity. Dramatic or not, none of us knows unless we know the whole story, which Marak chose not to share.

Consider reaching out to Marak privately to encourage him in what is obviously a less than ideal situation.

Otherwise, let's do as Mikeal suggests.

Cheers,

Adam Crabtree

Better a little with righteousness
       than much gain with injustice.
Proverbs 16:8

[Nathan White]

I usually refrain from this bs but when people start asking for explanations about such absurdities I find it very hard to refrain.

Marak's behavior is childish and deserves no explaination. The way he brought this shit to the forum should signal why he was fired. None of these issues should take away from all the other talented members of nodejitsu. It doesn't matter if Marak is right, to handle an issue like this in a public forum is inexcusable. 

[Marak Squires]

Nathan -

My intention was to inform the community I would no longer be maintaining a lot of projects that many developers communicate with me about on a semi-frequent basis.

The alternative would have been to silently stop supporting these projects ( disappear ) without any notice or explanation. 

- Marak

[Nathan White]

Marak,

For the record I think your a pretty cool guy I just don't agree with your actions. You have let your ego distort the lens of  reality. I, like yourself am very much a risk taker. With risks there are successes and failures. Look forward not backwards.

It is admiral to inform the community about your changing involvement on projects. This has been the guise of this thread but not the true motive. People have asked if you will transfer ownership, with no response. There is a reason github made this a core feature. We all thank you for your involvement and wish you the best of luck in your future endeavors. 

Visions, strategies and goals change at companies all the time, especially startups. It is obvious that your not in alignment with your previous employer. Remember there are many other people involved in building companies. Teams need unity not discord. Companies must remove barriers to unity, sometimes it people. It's not about who is right or wrong, it just is. 

Move on. Put your talents to use, you should have no problem finding a paycheck. The self loathing will get you nowhere.

[Marak Squires]

I have no idea who you are Nathan. We've never worked on anything together before and we don't know each other.

I'm not sure why you feel compelled to join this conversation and make judgements.

[jstewmon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=xJjCnWm5cvE#t=100s

[klrumpf]

I'm just a newbie here, don't know anyone. But perhaps people who contributed substantially to the project deserve a bit of respect in general, more so if they're bright and talented. (I'm not, wish I were). Not some of the� comments when things go wrong. Companies have no heart and are not supposed to have one by definition, stuff like this happens when agendas clash. And Open Source can be double edged sometimes? Wish you best of luck, set out on your own, in a year you laugh about the whole thing. Tested!�

On 13/09/12 17:57, Marak Squires wrote:

I have no idea who you are Nathan. We've never worked on anything together before and we don't know each other.

I'm not sure why you feel compelled to join this conversation and make judgements.

On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 5:13 AM, Nathan White <change...@gmail.com> wrote:

Marak,

For the record I think your a pretty cool guy I just don't agree with your actions. You have let your ego distort the lens of �reality. I, like yourself am very much a risk taker. With risks there are successes and failures. Look forward not backwards.

It is admiral to inform the community about your changing involvement on projects. This has been the guise of this thread but not the true motive. People have asked if you will transfer ownership, with no response. There is a reason github made this a core feature. We all thank you for your involvement and wish you the best of luck in your future endeavors.�

Visions, strategies and goals change at companies all the time, especially startups. It is obvious that your not in alignment with your previous employer. Remember there are many other people involved in building companies. Teams need unity not discord. Companies must remove barriers to unity, sometimes it people. It's not about who is right or wrong, it just is.�

Move on. Put your talents to use, you should have no problem finding a paycheck. The self loathing will get you nowhere.

On Sep 13, 2012, at 12:03 AM, Marak Squires <marak....@gmail.com> wrote:

Nathan -

My intention was to inform the community I would no longer be maintaining a lot of projects that many developers communicate with me about on a semi-frequent basis.

The alternative would have been to silently stop supporting these projects ( disappear ) without any notice or explanation.�

- Marak

On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 10:17 PM, Nathan White <change...@gmail.com> wrote:

I usually refrain from this bs but when people start asking for explanations about such absurdities I find it very hard to refrain.

Marak's behavior is childish and deserves no explaination. The way he brought this shit to the forum should signal why he was fired. None of these issues should take away from all the other talented members of nodejitsu. It doesn't matter if Marak is right, to handle an issue like this in a public forum is inexcusable.�

On Sep 12, 2012, at 10:33 PM, Adam Crabtree <atcra...@gmail.com> wrote:

When a leader departs from a community like this, a reasonable explanation helps answer the most basic questions that are on everyone's minds, while setting expectations of privacy in what they chose not to share. We should respect that and appreciate Marak's willingness to share personal details for the sake of greater clarity. Dramatic or not, none of us knows unless we know the whole story, which Marak chose not to share.

Consider reaching out to Marak privately to encourage him in what is obviously a less than�ideal�situation.

Otherwise, let's do as Mikeal suggests.

Cheers,

Adam Crabtree

On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 12:46 PM, Micheil Smith <mic...@brandedcode.com> wrote:

Really, that was just me getting a wee bit annoyed at the idea of the whole dramatisation
here. If a company fires you, they either had a reason to, or, you have a lawsuit you can
probably press, if you really want to.

No need to make a big noise about it and try to paint them out as evil or wrong or whatever,
it's fine though if someone asks that you're honest about it, but do we really need to
discussion or even here about Marak's firing on the Node.js mailing list? As far as I'm
concerned, not really, no.

� Micheil

On 12/09/2012, at 6:43 PM, Mikeal Rogers wrote:

> It is beyond foolish to speculate about why someone was fired from an announcement like this.
>
> I suggest you ask Marak or someone else at nodejitsu you know personally why this happened if you find it necessary to gossip.
>
> -Mikeal
>
> On Sep 12, 2012, at September 12, 201210:41 AM, Micheil Smith <mic...@brandedcode.com> wrote:
>
>> Wasn't wanting to add into this, but reading between the lines it reads as if there
>> was a conflict of interest, Marak was developing something open-source that was
>> seen as a potential competitor to the closed-source product he was being paid to
>> work on.
>>
>> Which, if he wished to not stop work on that potential competitor, then sure, sounds
>> fine to dismiss him from the position he held at the company.
>>
>> And then, all that aside, I can understand being angry at a company, but the tone
>> of that email was way off. Sure, if people ask you directly as to why, you can say
>> something to them about it, but no need to make a massive show out of it.
>>

>> � Micheil

� � �� than much gain with injustice.
Proverbs 16:8

[Stewart Mckinney]

I don't think Marak was attempting to do anything other than inform the community he was stepping down. It got emotional, sure, but you can't blame him for that.

Sometimes its hard to contain your emotion in these situations, because you have a lot invested in it. Sometimes, your entire body and soul. I think we all know MS had a lot invested in this.

I don't think you should be criticizing people for that, for not being automata in always in service of corporations and business - first and foremost because this is an open source community which contains enthusiasts and freelancers as well. I also don't think that, when someone has just recently been let go, that you should be ex  I certainly don't think you should be saying something along the lines "should signal why someone was fired." Really? Wow. 

In situations like this, startups always have the option to get out in front of the situation and announce that a major member is leaving. This has happened at every single start up I have worked for. They should have done that, and they didn't. The reason why they should do it is precisely this, to avoid having to have the person severed explain - potentially emotionally - to the rest of the community why they will no longer be participating in projects that are beyond the scope of a company's NDA. This is what happens when they don't. I respect everyone over there at NJ, but that was a misstep.

If you have scathing words, keep them to yourself. The only thing you did was damage the espirit de corps of this community.

[Stewart Mckinney]

*explaining why someone was potentially let go when you don't know the situation yourself.

[Alan Gutierrez]

On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 11:17:00PM -0600, Nathan White wrote:
> I usually refrain from this bs but when people start asking for explanations
> about such absurdities I find it very hard to refrain.
>
> Marak's behavior is childish and deserves no explaination. The way he brought
> this shit to the forum should signal why he was fired. None of these issues
> should take away from all the other talented members of nodejitsu. It doesn't
> matter if Marak is right, to handle an issue like this in a public forum is
> inexcusable.

What is inexcusable? Announcing that you're no longer able to maintain open
source software that you've created? Telling your Internet friends you've been
fired? Letting people know something of the hurt you feel that the work you've
focused on has come to an end for you?

What's inexcusable exactly?

I've known people who couldn't have been happier with their termination. It's
the end of a relationship. In our industry, quit whether someone is fired or
whether they quit is about as meaningful as who dumped who first.

I believe our compatriot is taking his dismissal pretty hard, but it doesn't
make sense to me. I don't believe he has to take it that hard. I want to see him
rebound. I want to see him fork and carry on.

Getting fired is something that happens to a person. It's part of that person's
story. They get to tell their story. He is part of the community. His
circumstance effects the community. He gets to talk about it. He is allowed to
tell people that this circumstance makes him sad.

It makes me sad.

I don't understand your vindictiveness. It's really off putting. Reads like a
craven display of deference to authority to me.

--
Alan Gutierrez - @bigeasy

[Isaac Schlueter]

Everyone,

Please stop.

Marak's relationship with Nodejitsu is between Marak and Nodejitsu.
He'll got plenty of ability to get another job when and if he decides
to. He did the responsible thing by letting people know that he's not
going to be maintaining some projects.

None of us have enough information to speculate about why or how
things turned out the way they did, and we can only make the drama
worse by doing so. The best thing to do is to leave it alone.

[cayasso]

Move on guys nothing else to see here. Marak we wish you the best!!!

JB