Raytheon CK1414F10C monoscopes on E-bay

[lai...@wcoil.com]

Standard disclaimer not my auction not affiliated with the seller.
Somebody has Raytheon CK1414F10C monoscopes buy it now for $20.00 + 10.00
shipping on Ebay more than 10 available. They appear new in the box FAA
surplus Item number 300677567307. You can see the symbols on the target
plate at the end of the tube. Pretty nifty piece of technological history.
Tim Laing

[lai...@wcoil.com]

Well those are going fast! 17 down 3 to go. Somebody bought 10 of them!
They don't sell internationally and I purchased one for a German group
member and one for me.

[Cobra007]

What does that exactly do? It looks like it is something similar to a
more modern character generator ROM. Is that right?

Michel

[Nick]

I have another model of this tube:

http://4hv.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?109823 

They are interesting, though essentially useless (now) devices. They were used to create character masks and map overlays for radar systems etc, so hey contain an electrostatic gun which scans an anode with the shapes you are interested on them - the output signal varies depending on where you hit the mask. The generic tube is the CK1414 and the suffix specifies which standard (or custom) mask is in it...

Nick

[Nick]

On Mar 24, 8:12 am, Cobra007 <mic...@xiac.com> wrote:
> What does that exactly do? It looks like it is something similar to a
> more modern character generator ROM. Is that right?

Similar sort of idea, but more flexible. Have a look at my post above
- there are photos, comments & datasheet in that...

Nick

[Cobra007]

Interesting, it sounds like a very complicated way to display
characters. Your datasheet is dated 1966, I thought they would have
had some more modern technology by that time?

Michel

[Dekatron42]

They are quite fantastic units if you think about how to integrate
characters on a linear or vector scope screen where you only have
access to analog signals and no digital to analogue converter.

/Martin

> > Nick- Dölj citerad text -
>
> - Visa citerad text -

[kay486]

They look really nice and interesting! Id really love to see it in action. I havent found any videos/pictures though. Does somebody know where to find any?

[Dylan Distasio]

Do you know of anyone ever successfully recreating a full display with these using a second CRT?

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[Cobra007]

I would like to see that too, with all analogue technology to drive
the monoscope and CRT. Not so easy to replicate I think. From Nick's
datasheets it seems like they used this type of tube for flight
information screens in airports. So I may well have seen this in the
early 1970's, but never realized how it actually worked :-).

Michel

[John Rehwinkel]

> I would like to see that too, with all analogue technology to drive
> the monoscope and CRT. Not so easy to replicate I think.

I used to have a video terminal that used a monoscope as the character generator. Had the schematics for it, too.

- John

[Tidak Ada]

I have here a short commercial about charactrons. Nothing exiting, but may
be intresting to have.
Non commercial usage is permitted under the condition to mention the URL of
the source.

Size is about 3.100 MB in .rm format Real Player can handle it.

eric

- John

--

[Nick]

On Mar 25, 11:57 am, "Tidak Ada" <offl...@zeelandnet.nl> wrote:
> I have here a short commercial about charactrons. Nothing exiting, but may
> be intresting to have.
> Non commercial usage is permitted under the condition to mention the URL of
> the source.

The CK1414 is a monoscope, not a charactron - subtle difference -
monoscopes work on electron scattering, charactrons use a stencil,
thus monoscopes can do circles and charactrons cannot !

The best charactron video I know is from
http://www.chilton-computing.org.uk/acl/technology/sc4020/p002.htm but
I know of no similar one for monoscopes, though there are a few
YouTube videos about them, but not this model - monoscopes were widely
used for generating test cards for mono (black & white) TVs...

Nick

[Tidak Ada]

Yes, that's the same film I have. I got a off line copy from them.
Soory for the mixing up, I should have better read...

eric

-----Original Message-----
From: neoni...@googlegroups.com [mailto:neoni...@googlegroups.com] On

Nick

--

[David Forbes]

I have a couple of those tubes. Never did get around to building a
circuit to use them, although it's not TOO hard if one can make a
standard CRT work.

Its highest purpose, in my opinion, is building an EBCDIC video terminal
to connect to that IBM 360 you keep running in your garage.

--
David Forbes, Tucson AZ

[lai...@wcoil.com]

The seller evidently had 20 of these tubes. After I bought one and made my
posting. (I thought it was a good idea to buy first!) The sales went on at
a good clip. Somebody must have a use for them as they bought 10! I ended
up buying a total of 5 as the seller would not sell to buyers outside the
US. So I was contacted by 3 people from this list and the TCA list and
asked to make purchases for them which I did. We will all have to wait a
while for the tubes to be shipped as the seller contacted me and told me
he was out of town on business.
It would be pretty nifty to build a CRT clock or Four or more letter
word using one of these tubes to produce the characters. It would have
to be a raster scan though from what I understand.
Tim

[Cobra007]

Let's see who will win the race to make the first clock with these
tubes :-).

I still wonder how it will scan a character, do you set the "X-Y"
voltages for the character and then perform a scan of the character,
or do you scan a series of characters slice by slice? If you want your
signal to be compatible for a PAL TV, I think you have to scan a row
of characters slice by slice, but that would make it more complicated
than scanning character by character.

Michel

[Nick]

On Mar 26, 10:18 am, Cobra007 <mic...@xiac.com> wrote:
> Let's see who will win the race to make the first clock with these
> tubes :-).
>
> I still wonder how it will scan a character, do you set the "X-Y"
> voltages for the character and then perform a scan of the character,
> or do you scan a series of characters slice by slice? If you want your
> signal to be compatible for a PAL TV, I think you have to scan a row
> of characters slice by slice, but that would make it more complicated
> than scanning character by character.

Many of these tubes don't have alphanumerics - they have test cards or
airfield overlays etc. Using one that does have numeric capability to
create a clock display on another CRT is just making life hard - to be
a valid exercise it'll have to be non-digital as using a uP, it would
be quite simple to implement but begs the question "Why?" - if you are
using a uP, then the character generation is is slightly academic
(though you can use the sine/cosine route some have used).

So, to be a valid exercise it should be completely analogue, and then
preferably hollow-state.

However, if I ever get round to it (unlikely) I'd go down the uP
route...

Nick

[Dekatron42]

Foundthis webpage when Googling, scroll down a bit to the monoscope
section - with simple valve circuit diagram of test pattern generator!
http://www.aade.com/tubepedia/1collection/tubepedia.htm

[Nick]

On Mar 26, 10:41 am, Dekatron42 <martin.forsb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Foundthis webpage when Googling, scroll down a bit to the monoscope
> section - with simple valve circuit diagram of test pattern generator!http://www.aade.com/tubepedia/1collection/tubepedia.htm

Doing a test pattern is easy - as long as you scan at the right line
rate (couple of oscillators, bit of blanking) you get a de-facto valid
video signal - that's why they were so popular for test cards etc. -
no screen burn, no focus issues, no warm-up time (to speak of), low
technical risk etc.

What we are talking about here is selecting glyphs from the grid of a
NON-TESTCARD monoscope, i.e. an alphanumeric one. This is a much more
complex problem.

Nick

[Dekatron42]

If you just replace, or rebuild, the oscillators in the test pattern
generator with an amplitude controlled "selector" you will be able to
select each character that you want. This can be done by adjusting the
oscillator voltages to be just one (1) character in amplitude
vertically and horisontally and then using a bias voltage to select
the character that you want in X and Y positions. It will work more or
less like a digital to analogue converter and you will have to make
sure that it can switch reliably and fast between each character that
you want. If I remember this correctly this is how it was done in the
military radar screns that I serviced during the 80's, but I do not
have access to the material since it was classified, so I might be
wrong.

/Martin

[John Rehwinkel]

> I still wonder how it will scan a character, do you set the "X-Y"
> voltages for the character and then perform a scan of the character,
> or do you scan a series of characters slice by slice?

You can do it either way. For VDU service, the CRT would be scanned
as a normal raster (normally using magnetic deflection, which is much
easier when doing a fixed raster), and the monoscope beam would
cut a slice through each character on the line as it went. So the
monoscope beam would be jumping around like mad (no problem,
as it's electrostatic deflection) to get the pieces of patterns it needed.

For succeeding scan lines, the monoscope
beam would repeat the same pattern down a notch, and keep doing so
repeatedly until the CRT had finished painting that line of characters.
Then for the next line, the monoscope would have a different crazy pattern
and iterate down the various character boxes.

Alternatively, you could scan the characters one at a time, and for each one,
set the position on the CRT (to where you wanted the glyph) and on the
monoscope (to the glyph you wanted), and then scan mini-rasters with both
of them in synchrony. This was done for adding small amounts of text to (say)
a radar display.

Occasionally, it would be a combination approach, for drawing short sections
of text on a radar display (aircraft altitude, for instance). Then the CRT would
get a mini-raster encompassing a small group of characters, and the monoscope
would jump around, grabbing slices of those characters. Then the CRT beam
would go paint another mini-raster for the next aircraft, and so on.

In short, the monoscope simply doesn't care. You can deflect its beam any old
way, and it'll give you an output telling you whether the current beam position
is over a cutout area or not, instant by instant. That's all it does. How you use
this depends on the stencil in the monoscope and your own creativity.

- John

[Charles MacDonald]

On 12-03-26 05:41 AM, Dekatron42 wrote:
> Foundthis webpage when Googling, scroll down a bit to the monoscope
> section - with simple valve circuit diagram of test pattern generator!
> http://www.aade.com/tubepedia/1collection/tubepedia.htm
>

Oh yes, another one of my Unbuilt projects. the 1698 does look quite
cute in my office.

--
Charles MacDonald Stittsville Ontario
cm...@zeusprune.ca Just Beyond the Fringe
http://users.trytel.com/~cmacd/tubes.html
No Microsoft Products were used in sending this e-mail.

[egorka5555]

Another one - 221004175423

Dm

[Dylan Distasio]

Buy it now went up by $10 from the last round...Guess we generated some perceived demand...

On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 11:27 PM, egorka5555 <bab...@gmail.com> wrote:

221004175423