My first two-digit Nixie tube!

[jb-electronics]

Hi folks,

I did it: I have just built my first two-digit Nixie tube! I call her
"NX-LS-1".

She contains the digits 0 and 1 as well as a zig-zag anode. Filling is
(as usual) air at 15mbar. I will have my needle valve shortly, then I
will be able to do some neon thingies.

See some pictures here:

http://www.jb-electronics.de/tmp/nx-ls-1_1.jpg
http://www.jb-electronics.de/tmp/nx-ls-1_2.jpg

The digits glow in a nice purple, but my camera has a hard time to grasp
the color. The truth is somewhat in between the very purple and very
blue color in the following pictures:

http://www.jb-electronics.de/tmp/nx-ls-1_3.jpg
http://www.jb-electronics.de/tmp/nx-ls-1_4.jpg
http://www.jb-electronics.de/tmp/nx-ls-1_5.jpg
http://www.jb-electronics.de/tmp/nx-ls-1_6.jpg
http://www.jb-electronics.de/tmp/nx-ls-1_7.jpg

Jens

[Dekatron42]

Nice!

 

So when are you ready to take orders? ;)

 

/Martin

[jb-electronics]

Thanks! The tube does not have a high lifespan: I used ordinary Dumet wire for the digits as well (convenience) and this sputters nicely; also, air is not the most ideal gas for discharge tubes, although it does look very nice (much nicer than I ever thought).

I briefly thought about making some more of these (maybe 10) and build them into a binary clock or something ;-) But driving them is not practical because they do need 550V DC to strike.

Jens

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[Tidak Ada]

Bullshit, I did not remember you when I was at the Philips CRT plant,  there was a complete bobine of chrome-nickle steel wire of about the thickness you used. Problem would be to weld it to the feed-trough wires. Soldering this wire is not possible; it has to be spot welded.

In case you have interest, I can send you some photo's of things I met there, to give an idea. So I have here  a frame, that is used to align the electrodes in a electron gun, that might give you an idea how to align the figures in a nixie. The frame is also used to press the glass ceramic studs that keep the electrodes in place in the tube. Also interesting photo's I made of a glassblower's tourch and the several satellite burners to place on top. Sadly I forgot to take a photo of the machine that does the work. I was too busy for a TCA member in Australia who has interest in materials and equipement for his experiments to make klystrons.

There where rows of micro spotwelders on long tables, but it was too much work to remove them. I found one spotwelding head that was not mounted and a transformer for 5 V 330 A. I could take it home. Unfortunately the welding head is missing some parts, however, I think a can fix that. The price was low enough to take the risk. The most imortant is to develop a driving supply that doses the current and time. Powerelectronics are not really my favorite field....

 

eric

---

From: neoni...@googlegroups.com [mailto:neoni...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of jb-electronics
Sent: dinsdag 16 oktober 2012 19:34
To: neoni...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: My first two-digit Nixie tube!

[dr pepper]

If you can make a nixie tube, which does look cool by the way, I'm
sure you can throw together a spotter from an old microwave tranny.

I have an old british federal spot welder controller, but it aint much
use as it didnt come with the little number plugs you use to set the
times.

On 16 Oct, 20:21, "Tidak Ada" <offl...@zeelandnet.nl> wrote:
> Bullshit, I did not remember you when I was at the Philips CRT plant,  there
> was a complete bobine of chrome-nickle steel wire of about the thickness you
> used. Problem would be to weld it to the feed-trough wires. Soldering this
> wire is not possible; it has to be spot welded.
> In case you have interest, I can send you some photo's of things I met
> there, to give an idea. So I have here  a frame, that is used to align the
> electrodes in a electron gun, that might give you an idea how to align the
> figures in a nixie. The frame is also used to press the glass ceramic studs
> that keep the electrodes in place in the tube. Also interesting photo's I
> made of a glassblower's tourch and the several satellite burners to place on
> top. Sadly I forgot to take a photo of the machine that does the work. I was
> too busy for a TCA member in Australia who has interest in materials and
> equipement for his experiments to make klystrons.
> There where rows of micro spotwelders on long tables, but it was too much
> work to remove them. I found one spotwelding head that was not mounted and a
> transformer for 5 V 330 A. I could take it home. Unfortunately the welding
> head is missing some parts, however, I think a can fix that. The price was
> low enough to take the risk. The most imortant is to develop a driving
> supply that doses the current and time. Powerelectronics are not really my
> favorite field....
>
> eric
>
>   _____
>

> <http://www.jb-electronics.de/tmp/nx-ls-1_1.jpg> tmp/nx-ls-1_1.jpghttp://www.jb-electronics.de/
> <http://www.jb-electronics.de/tmp/nx-ls-1_2.jpg> tmp/nx-ls-1_2.jpg

>
> The digits glow in a nice purple, but my camera has a hard time to grasp
> the color. The truth is somewhat in between the very purple and very
> blue color in the following pictures:
>
> http://www.jb-electronics.de/

> <http://www.jb-electronics.de/tmp/nx-ls-1_3.jpg> tmp/nx-ls-1_3.jpghttp://www.jb-electronics.de/
> <http://www.jb-electronics.de/tmp/nx-ls-1_4.jpg> tmp/nx-ls-1_4.jpghttp://www.jb-electronics.de/
> <http://www.jb-electronics.de/tmp/nx-ls-1_5.jpg> tmp/nx-ls-1_5.jpghttp://www.jb-electronics.de/
> <http://www.jb-electronics.de/tmp/nx-ls-1_6.jpg> tmp/nx-ls-1_6.jpghttp://www.jb-electronics.de/
> <http://www.jb-electronics.de/tmp/nx-ls-1_7.jpg> tmp/nx-ls-1_7.jpg

>
> Jens
>
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[JohnK]

They are cute !
Make more and do a Binary Clock. Use relays/valves if you don't want to rig
semis for the 550V+ .

John K
Australia

[dr pepper]

I've wondered about using little to92 triacs to run nixies from,you
can get them up to 800v fairly cheap, you'd need ac to power the tubes
of course.

> > For more options, visithttps://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Dekatron42]

Wouldn't it be possible to use a biasing network with resistors like they used to do when transistors couldn't handle the 170-180V that a Nixie needed in the early days? Or perhaps run the Nixies from a positive/negative powersupply split in half with +/-275V and a biasing network with resistors?

 

/Martin

[Michel]

Nice one Jens! I'd go for the binary clock, why not?

I was thinking, is it possible to use a high voltage SCR in series with a lower voltage NPN in a construction like this:

http://xiac.com/Images/SCR_NPN.gif

The NPN can then turn off the SCR, so you can use a normal DC power supply.

Michel

[fixitsan]

First of all, well done ! Good work :)

I know the digits are made of dumet wire, what plans do you have for trying other materials ?

I have read previously that molybdenum wire, or molybdenum coated elements in tubes are often used.
Is something like this suitable I wonder ? I see it is being sold as an electron tube related product /

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pure-Molybdenum-Wire-0-020-5mm-x-10ft-3m-/320555755603?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item4aa29ca853

[Dalibor Farný]

Good job Jens!

Molybdenum is not suitable for our purposes, it has low sputtering, but is very difficult to weld because of the high melting point. If You can get even lower sputtering with stainless steel electrodes in combination with mercury filled tube. This is the way how were the latest nixies made.. use just stanless steel electrodes first for the beginning. More info about sputtering is in the Weston's book.

I did an experiment with glow tube using soda glass and dumet wire, the electrodes were made from stainless steel, however the dumet were sticking out the seal into the tube, 5mm or so.. I run that tube for three weeks, tere were no signs of sputtering from the steel, but there formed a dark area around the dumet.. it made so large area that it formed a conductive layer and shortcircuited the supply, heated the tube and the tube cracked.. but I am sure the tube with steel only would last for long time..

Look on www.tubecrafter.com, Ron describes here a pinch welder what could be made for cheap, just a microwave transformer, rheostat and timing circuit (I may send a drawing), I placed some photos of mine on my blog in latest post. This stuff is really must..

I did some progress on my glass lathe, I should be able to rotate the stationary chuck soon..

Dalibor Farný
http://dalibor.farny.cz

sent from Samsung Galaxy Pad

Dne 18.10.2012 10:55 "fixitsan" <chef...@gmail.com> napsal(a):

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[threeneurons]

Keep up the good work !

If you need have some DXF files (vector format) on the digits you want, or a image of the whole set, in a raster format, throw in my direction. I'm in good with a guy that owns a steel cutting laser. 4000W of CO2 goodness. He'll run small jobs for me for nothing, as long as I don't abuse it. That means pester him for work too often.

I still want that "1 - 12" "tri-quad" tube. 3 anodes x 4 cathode sets (of 3).

  

[jb-electronics]

Hi guys,

thanks for your advice. I think the problem is the one Dalibor pointed
out: with Dumet wire the sputtering is very high. Also, since I am using
no noble gas (except for the less than 1 percent there is in ambient
air), the cathodes are having a much harder time anyway. So for now I
will not install these tubes in a permanent circuit since they would
only last for a few hours.

I will wait for my needle valve (will be here any day now) and try with
Neon (and some day with Argon, too, of course). The ignition voltage
should be drastically lower, and the visibility should increase.

The problem with stainless steel wire is that it outgasses; I have a
glow lamp with two stainless steel electrodes and it glows in a
white-ish blue color, very strange. Will post a picture later this
weekend if I don't forget.

Ah, by the way, I already have a small capacitor-based spot welder, and
so far, for my purposes, it has served me well:
http://www.robbe.de/welma-2000-punktschweissgeraet.html?___store=en

Jens

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[Dalibor Farný]

Hello!

By the way, how do You measure the pressure in the system? You mentioned
the glow lamp is filled on 15mBar...

Could You send a photo of the system You use for pumping and filling the
glow lamps?

The capacitor welder You have will work well, it is not suitable for
welding materials with high melting temperature like tungsten and
molybdenum, but for steel, nickel and so it is very good!

> The problem with stainless steel wire is that it outgasses; I have a
glow lamp with two stainless steel electrodes and it glows in a
white-ish blue color, very strange. Will post a picture later this
weekend if I don't forget.

the bluish color is not outgassing, outgassing is when the metal
releives trapped air, oxygen, CO2, moisture and so into vacuum, You can
avoid that by heating the wire into red for a minute or so just before
sealing and pumping.. Each metal behaves differently in discharge -
different voltages and so, so it could be because of that..


Dalibor

Dne 19.10.2012 7:29, jb-electronics napsal(a):

[jb-electronics]

Hi Dalibor,

it is a Pirani gauge. A friend of mine gave me a two-stage rotary vane
pump with flange terminal and a Pirani gauge that works fine down to
10E-4 mbar. Will take a picture later. I will mount my flange needle
valve when it gets here (a couple of days) and then I will take a lot of
pictures for documentation anyway.

> The capacitor welder You have will work well, it is not suitable for
> welding materials with high melting temperature like tungsten and
> molybdenum, but for steel, nickel and so it is very good!

The plier, however, is horrible. I will have to built one by myself; all
I need for that is just some pieces of copper.

>
> > The problem with stainless steel wire is that it outgasses; I have a
> glow lamp with two stainless steel electrodes and it glows in a
> white-ish blue color, very strange. Will post a picture later this
> weekend if I don't forget.
> the bluish color is not outgassing, outgassing is when the metal
> releives trapped air, oxygen, CO2, moisture and so into vacuum, You
> can avoid that by heating the wire into red for a minute or so just
> before sealing and pumping.. Each metal behaves differently in
> discharge - different voltages and so, so it could be because of that..

I should have been more precise: The glow lamp in question heated up
during my first test to about 100�C. At that temperature, the stainless
steel electrodes were rather hot, too. I just thought that at this point
the outgassing began because afterwards the color had shifted from
violet (air) to some white-ish blue (air + outgassing). So the
outgassing has changed the atmosphere inside my tube.

I don't think that different electrode materials produce different
colors, the physics are the same, the color only depends on the gas you
use. The ignition voltage was the same (550V DC).

But maybe it is also an optical illusion because the stainless steel
electrodes are much more reflective than Dumet wire and so a lot of
ambient light gets reflected off of them creating the illusion of a
white color component.

Jens

[jb-electronics]

Hi again,

here is a picture of my "lab" / desk. I do not have a separate room for
my tube making, so I have to clean off the desk every time I need to
work for the university. It does not take much time, and so it is
actually an advantage because it forces me to keep my lab tidy.

http://www.jb-electronics.de/tmp/lab.jpg

See the t-connector? This will be replaced by a connector with an
additional outlet (so 4 in total) for my needle valve.

I have been trying to build two colon tubes today, with some minor
success. Will post pictures tomorrow.

Jens

[jb-electronics]

Hi,

here are the pictures of one of the colon tubes (as always, air at 15mbar):

http://www.jb-electronics.de/tmp/gl-ls-8_1.jpg
http://www.jb-electronics.de/tmp/gl-ls-8_2.jpg

Sadly, the upper dot does not always light up. It was a silly idea to
parallel the two cathodes, next time I will have the two dots wired
seperately.

Jens

[dr pepper]

At last someone with a lab smaller than mine, I recently moved house
and aquired half a room for my 'shop, only problem is I still dont
have time to use it.

On 20 Oct, 23:43, jb-electronics <webmas...@jb-electronics.de> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> here are the pictures of one of the colon tubes (as always, air at 15mbar):
>

> http://www.jb-electronics.de/tmp/gl-ls-8_1.jpghttp://www.jb-electronics.de/tmp/gl-ls-8_2.jpg

[AndrakondrA (Daniil)]

Awesome work Jens! :)

I'm also joining nixie creation race. :)

Today  first goal is achieved -simple incandescent light bulb.

Things done -

Glass to metal seal - Kovar to 7052 to Uranium glass to 7740

Hand glassblowing.

Evacuation process.

Pic:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8838161@N02/8120086511/in/set-72157631845560157/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8838161@N02/8120088838/in/set-72157631845560157/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8838161@N02/8120077455/in/set-72157631845560157/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8838161@N02/8120091348/in/set-72157631845560157/

Daniil.

[jb-electronics]

Daniil,

wow, that looks really advanced! Not the kind of cheap tinkering I do
;-) Can't wait to see your first Nixie tubes!

Jens

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[AndrakondrA (Daniil)]

Jens,

No no it's just looks alike, I'm totally novice.. learning everything by myself. You can ask Dalibor :)

After trying to build home lab, and almost a year of seeking after normal vacuum pump for reasonable money, closed deal to work in professional glass workshop, so the machines are not mine (and it's totally fake impression). :)

 

[John Rehwinkel]

> I'm also joining nixie creation race. :)
>
> Today first goal is achieved -simple incandescent light bulb.
> Things done -
> Glass to metal seal - Kovar to 7052 to Uranium glass to 7740
> Hand glassblowing.
> Evacuation process.

Nice job, Daniil. I like the looks of those stems. Congratulations on first light!
If it burns out, you can hook it up to high voltage and run it as a glow lamp!
Looks like it's continuously pumped, which is great for experimentation. Are
you considering gettering or gas fill for sealed-off ones?

- John

[jb-electronics]

Hi Daniil,

I don't think it is too important who the tools belong to as long as you
can use them. It is a fascinating opportunity for you to acquire real
glassblowing skills.

I am so busy at the moment with university stuff that I cannot focus too
much on Nixie tube making... Anyway, my next investment is going to be
an gas-oxygen handheld torch so that I can also work Pyrex glass (will
give it a try I guess) as well as soda lime. It is an investment I will
only have to do once, so it is definetely worth it.

Another plan is to study the annealing and tempering properties of soda
lime glass. I know that most hobbyist tube makers do not use this kind
of glass (for good reasons), but then again it is so easy to create
vacuum tight seals. Also, I have some lead glass tube stems lying around
here and these only fuse to soda lime. So I will try to build a
preheating oven that I can use to reheat glass and glass/metal parts and
then join them. I will either use an infrared torch or a hot air fan for
that. I will also make some horrible pinch seal and hold it in the hot
air for some time and analyse the reduction of the tensions inside the
glass.

So much for my plans. What is your next step, Daniil?

Jens

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[kay486]

Somebody might be interested in this, i decided to post it here because i didnt want to start a new topic. http://www.elektroda.pl/rtvforum/topic830658.html

[John Rehwinkel]

> Somebody might be interested in this, i decided to post it here because i didnt want to start a new topic. http://www.elektroda.pl/rtvforum/topic830658.html

That's our own Aleksander Zawada - he does some beautiful work making vacuum tubes and nixies. I didn't even know he was working on a seven
segment display!

- John

[AndrakondrA (Daniil)]

>John

Congratulations on first light!  

Are you considering gettering or gas fill for sealed-off ones? 

Thank you very much!

Have a problem, for now at least, to get both of them. When I get them I will try all options.

>Jens 

I am so busy at the moment with university stuff that I cannot focus too 
much on Nixie tube making...

:) Same thing exactly! :(

>Jens 

What is your next step, Daniil? 

Before I move to make nixies I want to play with incandescent lamps for some time.

And try to make something like this (pic). 

Dan.