Getting B2G Phones out into the Wild

[John Karahalis]

Just got a note from our March Dev Derby winner asking if Boot 2 Gecko
will work on the phone we're sending him. This comes after our January
winner demonstrated some awesome work he did on the phone.

What else can we do to get these phones in people's hands? It seems that
there's huge interest.

--
John Karahalis
Developer Engagement
@openjck

[Maurício Araldi]

Something like "Submit a Web App to Mozilla Marketplace and get a Phone",
judging the apps to some points. This would be even populating our web
store x). What do you think?

> ______________________________**_________________
> engagement-developers mailing list
> engagement-developers@lists.**mozilla.org<engagement...@lists.mozilla.org>
> https://lists.mozilla.org/**listinfo/engagement-developers<https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/engagement-developers>
>

[John Karahalis]

That is an absolutely wonderful idea, Maurício. Thanks for sharing it.

Lets put these phones in the hands of the people who want and need them
the most. I'm all for it.

On 04/25/2012 09:24 PM, Maurício Araldi wrote:
>
> Something like "Submit a Web App to Mozilla Marketplace and get a
> Phone", judging the apps to some points. This would be even populating
> our web store x). What do you think?
>
> On Apr 25, 2012 9:01 PM, "John Karahalis" <jkara...@mozilla.com

> <mailto:jkara...@mozilla.com>> wrote:
>
> Just got a note from our March Dev Derby winner asking if Boot 2
> Gecko will work on the phone we're sending him. This comes after
> our January winner demonstrated some awesome work he did on the phone.
>
> What else can we do to get these phones in people's hands? It
> seems that there's huge interest.
>
> --
> John Karahalis
> Developer Engagement
> @openjck
>

> _______________________________________________
> engagement-developers mailing list
> engagement...@lists.mozilla.org
> <mailto:engagement...@lists.mozilla.org>
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/engagement-developers

[Robert Nyman]

Interesting ideas!

I think we need to be very wary with when and how we give out phones, though. For a couple of reasons:

- If we start handing them out all over, it will be like Google and the Chromebooks - people just want stuff for free but won't use it
- Since we don't produce any hardware, currently we need to buy phones at retail price. Meaning: every phone handed out becomes extremely expensive for us

I would love for people to get phones, but I believe most focus should rather go into installfests and helping people to install it on existing phones (and dual-booting, which I've learnt is an option). So, in my opinion, giving phones to winners etc is just fine, and while I do like any idea to get more apps to the Marketplace, I think that would be more phones than we can afford.


Best regards,
Robert

> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/engagement-developers

[Maurício Araldi]

Yeah, I agree with you Robert. I think that the phones should be given to
selected people. But, about doing dual boot, I have doubts on what phones
actually support B2G, and how heavy would be the work to expand this
support.So, maybe we need to focus workshops on teaching people on how to
make their phone support B2G?

Maurício Araldi.
-

[Robert Nyman]

> Yeah, I agree with you Robert. I think that the phones should be given to selected people. But, about doing dual boot, I have doubts on what phones actually support B2G, and how heavy would be the work to expand this support.So, maybe we need to focus workshops on teaching people on how to make their phone support B2G?

I think, based on where we are at the moment at least, we can only go with the phones that have been established to support B2G, i.e. Galaxy S2 and Nexus S, and help people getting it to work on those. I would love to see it work on any phone - or at least any phone that supports Android - but we are far from there right now.

Hopefully in the future. :-)


Best regards,
Robert

[Jeff Griffiths]

On 12-04-25 5:01 PM, John Karahalis wrote:
> Just got a note from our March Dev Derby winner asking if Boot 2 Gecko
> will work on the phone we're sending him. This comes after our January
> winner demonstrated some awesome work he did on the phone.

Which was awesome!

> What else can we do to get these phones in people's hands? It seems that
> there's huge interest.

...and yet, we can't buy everyone a phone.

The plan is definitely to release a steady stream of phones via events
and contests such as dev derby. You're right - phones or devices we
provide as prizes should probably all be compatible with B2G - we'll do
the best we can for this at least.

Another side of this is making a better experience hacking on B2G and
Gaia via desktop builds and developer tools.

Jeff

[Maurício Araldi]

Is there any kind of B2G emulator?

[Robert Nyman]

> Is there any kind of B2G emulator?

You could try this: https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Mozilla/Boot_to_Gecko/Building_B2G_for_QEMU_Emulator
I haven't yet.


Best regards,
Robert

[Luke Crouch]

IMO, the Mozilla Way™ of putting B2G phones into the hands of developers
is not to buy devices nor pre-load it for them - that's the
Google/Apple/Microsoft Way™.

We should foster a B2G community like the CyanogenMod community -
empowering developers to expand B2G device support themselves. We should
seed it with the developers who are already passionate about B2G on
their devices, and maybe try to attract some of the folks from
CyanogenMod itself? http://forum.cyanogenmod.com/

-L

On 4/25/12 9:16 PM, Robert Nyman wrote:
>> Yeah, I agree with you Robert. I think that the phones should be given to selected people. But, about doing dual boot, I have doubts on what phones actually support B2G, and how heavy would be the work to expand this support.So, maybe we need to focus workshops on teaching people on how to make their phone support B2G?

> I think, based on where we are at the moment at least, we can only go with the phones that have been established to support B2G, i.e. Galaxy S2 and Nexus S, and help people getting it to work on those. I would love to see it work on any phone - or at least any phone that supports Android - but we are far from there right now.
>
> Hopefully in the future. :-)
>
>

> Best regards,
> Robert
>
>
>

> On Apr 26, 2012, at 04:10 , Maurício Araldi wrote:
>
>> Yeah, I agree with you Robert. I think that the phones should be given to selected people. But, about doing dual boot, I have doubts on what phones actually support B2G, and how heavy would be the work to expand this support.So, maybe we need to focus workshops on teaching people on how to make their phone support B2G?
>>
>> Maurício Araldi.
>> -
>>
>>
>>
>> Em 25 de abril de 2012 23:00, Robert Nyman<robn...@mozilla.com> escreveu:
>> Interesting ideas!
>>
>> I think we need to be very wary with when and how we give out phones, though. For a couple of reasons:
>>
>> - If we start handing them out all over, it will be like Google and the Chromebooks - people just want stuff for free but won't use it
>> - Since we don't produce any hardware, currently we need to buy phones at retail price. Meaning: every phone handed out becomes extremely expensive for us
>>
>> I would love for people to get phones, but I believe most focus should rather go into installfests and helping people to install it on existing phones (and dual-booting, which I've learnt is an option). So, in my opinion, giving phones to winners etc is just fine, and while I do like any idea to get more apps to the Marketplace, I think that would be more phones than we can afford.
>>
>>

>> Best regards,
>> Robert
>>
>>

>> On Apr 26, 2012, at 03:36 , John Karahalis wrote:
>>
>>> That is an absolutely wonderful idea, Maurício. Thanks for sharing it.
>>>
>>> Lets put these phones in the hands of the people who want and need them the most. I'm all for it.
>>>
>>> On 04/25/2012 09:24 PM, Maurício Araldi wrote:
>>>> Something like "Submit a Web App to Mozilla Marketplace and get a Phone", judging the apps to some points. This would be even populating our web store x). What do you think?
>>>>

>>>> On Apr 25, 2012 9:01 PM, "John Karahalis"<jkara...@mozilla.com<mailto:jkara...@mozilla.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Just got a note from our March Dev Derby winner asking if Boot 2
>>>> Gecko will work on the phone we're sending him. This comes after
>>>> our January winner demonstrated some awesome work he did on the phone.
>>>>

>>>> What else can we do to get these phones in people's hands? It
>>>> seems that there's huge interest.
>>>>

>>>> -- John Karahalis
>>>> Developer Engagement
>>>> @openjck
>>>>

>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> engagement-developers mailing list
>>>> engagement...@lists.mozilla.org

>>>> <mailto:engagement...@lists.mozilla.org>
>>>> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/engagement-developers
>>>>
>>> --
>>> John Karahalis
>>> Developer Engagement
>>> @openjck
>>>

[Maurício Araldi]

@Luke +1. I agree with you. But it wouldn't hurt to make it a little
easier, would it? :D

What I mean is that I wonder how hard is for a developer who hasn't been
involved in the development process (till now) to expand B2G support to his
phone. Would it be possible without him giving up (even if he's not the
kind who gives up easily)? Because if not, then we should find a way to
make this process a little easier...

Maybe I'm saying bullshit... then don't mind ahuehhehuaehua

Maurício Araldi.
-

>>>>> On Apr 25, 2012 9:01 PM, "John Karahalis"<jkarahalis@mozilla.**com<jkara...@mozilla.com>

>>>>> <mailto:jkarahalis@mozilla.**com <jkara...@mozilla.com>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Just got a note from our March Dev Derby winner asking if Boot 2
>>>>> Gecko will work on the phone we're sending him. This comes after
>>>>> our January winner demonstrated some awesome work he did on the
>>>>> phone.
>>>>>
>>>>> What else can we do to get these phones in people's hands? It
>>>>> seems that there's huge interest.
>>>>>
>>>>> -- John Karahalis
>>>>> Developer Engagement
>>>>> @openjck
>>>>>

>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>> engagement-developers mailing list
>>>>> engagement-developers@lists.**mozilla.org<engagement...@lists.mozilla.org>

>>>>> <mailto:engagement-developers@**lists.mozilla.org<engagement...@lists.mozilla.org>
>>>>> >
>>>>> https://lists.mozilla.org/**listinfo/engagement-developers<https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/engagement-developers>

>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>> John Karahalis
>>>> Developer Engagement
>>>> @openjck
>>>>

[Rob Hawkes]

The main problem I see right now is that developers don't want to, or
can't afford to buy their own device to test something which (let's face
it) is buggy and not ready yet.

We could do a happy medium though... give people B2G devices as prizes,
but don't load it on for them and show them how to do it. I still don't
think that's ideal for all situations but it might help kill two birds
with one stone; getting devices into (few) hands, and showing people how
to build and use B2G themselves.

We also have a few very different developer markets here that each need
to be targeted in their own way:

* Hardware-level guys who want to help build B2G and the low-level tech
* Mobile hackers who want to get B2G working on other devices
* Front-end developers who want to built apps or customise the OS/make
their own


Rob

Maurício Araldi wrote:
> @Luke +1. I agree with you. But it wouldn't hurt to make it a little
> easier, would it? :D
>
> What I mean is that I wonder how hard is for a developer who hasn't been
> involved in the development process (till now) to expand B2G support to his
> phone. Would it be possible without him giving up (even if he's not the
> kind who gives up easily)? Because if not, then we should find a way to
> make this process a little easier...
>
> Maybe I'm saying bullshit... then don't mind ahuehhehuaehua
>
> Maurício Araldi.
> -
>
>
>
> Em 26 de abril de 2012 11:45, Luke Crouch<lcr...@mozilla.com> escreveu:
>

>> IMO, the Mozilla Way^(TM) of putting B2G phones into the hands of developers

>> is not to buy devices nor pre-load it for them - that's the

>> Google/Apple/Microsoft Way^(TM).

[David Bruant]

Le 26/04/2012 16:56, Rob Hawkes a écrit :
> The main problem I see right now is that developers don't want to, or
> can't afford to buy their own device to test something which (let's
> face it) is buggy and not ready yet.
>
> We could do a happy medium though... give people B2G devices as
> prizes, but don't load it on for them and show them how to do it. I
> still don't think that's ideal for all situations but it might help
> kill two birds with one stone; getting devices into (few) hands, and
> showing people how to build and use B2G themselves.
>
> We also have a few very different developer markets here that each
> need to be targeted in their own way:
>
> * Hardware-level guys who want to help build B2G and the low-level tech
> * Mobile hackers who want to get B2G working on other devices
> * Front-end developers who want to built apps or customise the OS/make
> their own

I agree with this taxonomy. I would personally find myself in the 3rd
category and have no fun in installing an OS on a mobile phone. If I
ever received a phone with the message "install your OS yourself"
(especially in the early stage B2G is in), I would probably consider
that as a poisoneous present.
I'm mainly interested in B2G because it allows to write applications in
JavaScript and to use low-level APIs, which as far as I know are either
not available or limited in any other OS out there.

The other side of the coin is that it may be worth expanding the scope
of Mozilla's presence beyond the broad webdev community to reach
hardware/(phone)OS communities.

David

[Jeff Griffiths]

On 12-04-26 5:13 AM, Robert Nyman wrote:
>> Is there any kind of B2G emulator?
>
>

> You could try this: https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Mozilla/Boot_to_Gecko/Building_B2G_for_QEMU_Emulator
> I haven't yet.

The audience for the emulator is mainly people working on the 'Gonk' /
Linux underbelly of B2G, and as we don't have builds it is a significant
amount of effort to get it going.

Pleases see the B2G landing page for more details on the trade-offs for
these options:

https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Mozilla/Boot_to_Gecko#For_Web_developers

The main options are:

* using Firefox nightly to run Gaia

* Building B2G desktop, using these instructions:
https://wiki.mozilla.org/Gaia/Hacking#Building_B2G

Jeff

[Luke Crouch]

On 4/26/12 9:56 AM, Rob Hawkes wrote:
> We could do a happy medium though... give people B2G devices as
> prizes, but don't load it on for them and show them how to do it.

+1

>
> * Front-end developers who want to built apps or customise the
> OS/make their own
>

>> What I mean is that I wonder how hard is for a developer who hasn't been
>> involved in the development process (till now) to expand B2G support to his
>> phone.

This is me exactly - a non-hardware, non-mobile-hacker who wants to
develop B2G apps and hasn't been involved in B2G development until now,
and doesn't want to buy a whole new device for it.

What would be ideal for me is a "How to dual boot Android and B2G"
guide. That's exactly how I weened from Windows to Unix. I know that's a
massive undertaking - but it seems like a well-defined target at which
we can aim.

-L

[Luke Crouch]

I had another idea in this thread:

Instead of (or in addition to) taking B2G phones to events, just take
devices and have a "Make and Take" workshop (a la "Pwn to Own") - anyone
who comes and builds B2G on a device (with help from a Mozilla expert)
gets to take it home.

Then we can take devices we know will work (Samsung Nexus S, Samsung
Galaxy S2) and devices we still need to work on. If anyone can build B2G
for a new device, they get to keep it so long as they write the build
instructions up on
https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Mozilla/Boot_to_Gecko/#Setting_up_.26_building_Boot_to_Gecko

-L

On 4/26/12 9:56 AM, Rob Hawkes wrote:

> The main problem I see right now is that developers don't want to, or
> can't afford to buy their own device to test something which (let's
> face it) is buggy and not ready yet.
>

> We could do a happy medium though... give people B2G devices as

> prizes, but don't load it on for them and show them how to do it. I
> still don't think that's ideal for all situations but it might help
> kill two birds with one stone; getting devices into (few) hands, and
> showing people how to build and use B2G themselves.
>
> We also have a few very different developer markets here that each
> need to be targeted in their own way:
>
> * Hardware-level guys who want to help build B2G and the low-level tech
> * Mobile hackers who want to get B2G working on other devices

> * Front-end developers who want to built apps or customise the
> OS/make their own
>
>

> Rob
>
> Maurício Araldi wrote:
>> @Luke +1. I agree with you. But it wouldn't hurt to make it a little
>> easier, would it? :D
>>

>> What I mean is that I wonder how hard is for a developer who hasn't been
>> involved in the development process (till now) to expand B2G support to his

>> phone. Would it be possible without him giving up (even if he's not the
>> kind who gives up easily)? Because if not, then we should find a way to
>> make this process a little easier...
>>
>> Maybe I'm saying bullshit... then don't mind ahuehhehuaehua
>>
>> Maurício Araldi.
>> -
>>
>>
>>
>> Em 26 de abril de 2012 11:45, Luke Crouch<lcr...@mozilla.com> escreveu:
>>
>>> IMO, the Mozilla Way^(TM) of putting B2G phones into the hands of developers
>>> is not to buy devices nor pre-load it for them - that's the
>>> Google/Apple/Microsoft Way^(TM).
>>>
>>> We should foster a B2G community like the CyanogenMod community -
>>> empowering developers to expand B2G device support themselves. We should
>>> seed it with the developers who are already passionate about B2G on their
>>> devices, and maybe try to attract some of the folks from CyanogenMod

>>> itself?http://forum.cyanogenmod.com/