[SURVEY] Mozilla L10n Communication Channels

[Jeffrey Beatty]

Hi everyone,

Hope you're all well.

As many, if not all, of you know, the l10n-drivers will be meeting together
in Orlando, Florida in one week for the Mozilla All Hands work week. There
we'll be discussing important topics surrounding how we do l10n at Mozilla.
One of those is about how we all communicate with each other as a global
l10n community. So that we have all of the information necessary in front
of us for that discussion, please take 5 minutes this week to fill out this
survey. The questions are pretty simple and will give us a good idea of
what we can do to improve Mozilla l10n communications for you and your
community.

Here's the survey: http://www.surveygizmo.com/s3/2472603/27a984492a20

Thank you in advance for your help with this.

All the best,
Jeff

[Stefan Plewako]

> Wiadomość napisana przez Jeffrey Beatty <jbe...@mozilla.com> w dniu 30.11.2015, o godz. 22:25:

>
> There
> we'll be discussing important topics surrounding how we do l10n at Mozilla.
> One of those is about how we all communicate with each other as a global
> l10n community. So that we have all of the information necessary in front
> of us for that discussion, please take 5 minutes this week to fill out this
> survey. The questions are pretty simple and will give us a good idea of
> what we can do to improve Mozilla l10n communications for you and your
> community.
>
> Here's the survey: http://www.surveygizmo.com/s3/2472603/27a984492a20

The survey seems to be phrased/constructed in a way (especially point 5) that makes submitting honest feedback impossible for me unfortunately.


stef

[Mihovil Stanić]

+1
I just gave up after first page.

Mihovil

[Jeffrey Beatty]

I know many are frustrated by question 5. Please do your best to answer it
as close to accurately as possible.

Sadly, the survey platform does not provide an alternative for ranking
communication channels within the l10n community over others. This is
important information for us to know, however, as we work to branch out and
meet localizers where they communicate.

Personally, I would have liked to see the option to add an "Other" and
write it in, as well as allowing you to assign the same rank to multiple
options. The alternative was to separate them out into individual
questions, however, that would have made it more difficult to run automated
reports and interpret the data.

Thank you for your patience.
Jeff

> _______________________________________________
> dev-l10n mailing list
> dev-...@lists.mozilla.org
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-l10n
>

[Michael Bauer]

There was only one page ;) but yes, it wasn't great. Especially those
questions where I had to rank tools by preference even if I'd never
heard of them :/

Michael

Sgrìobh Mihovil Stanić na leanas 01/12/2015 aig 14:36:

> +1
> I just gave up after first page.
>
> Mihovil
>
> 01.12.2015 u 15:23, Stefan Plewako je napisao/la:
>>
>> The survey seems to be phrased/constructed in a way (especially point
>> 5) that makes submitting honest feedback impossible for me
>> unfortunately.
>>
>>
>> stef
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dev-l10n mailing list
> dev-...@lists.mozilla.org
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-l10n
>

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[Stefan Plewako]

> Wiadomość napisana przez Jeffrey Beatty <jbe...@mozilla.com> w dniu 01.12.2015, o godz. 15:43:

>
> I know many are frustrated by question 5. Please do your best to answer it
> as close to accurately as possible.

The closest for me is not to answer it at all and I didn't complete the survey since the question 5 answer is required to complete it.

> Sadly, the survey platform does not provide an alternative for ranking
> communication channels within the l10n community over others. This is
> important information for us to know, however, as we work to branch out and
> meet localizers where they communicate.

Then that platform shouldn't be used in that manner, especially if the topic is important.

> Personally, I would have liked to see the option to add an "Other" and
> write it in, as well as allowing you to assign the same rank to multiple
> options. The alternative was to separate them out into individual
> questions, however, that would have made it more difficult to run automated
> reports and interpret the data.

Anything not allowing negative answers (like "I don't think l10n-drivers should incorporate any additional tools into the global l10n communication channels as I believe the communication is spread over to many of them already") would be biased. Marking such biased questions as required only makes things worse.

[Jeffrey Beatty]

I certainly see your concern. I've made adjustments to the survey to
account for this and attempt to eliminate any bias. The adjustments in no
way break reporting logic for the survey. I can't account for everything,
but I hope we can all agree that this is an improvement and more will feel
comfortable with responding.

Proposal: If you're happy with your survey response, please do nothing :-)

If you were unhappy with your survey response, please take the survey again
and I will toss out your first response from the group responses. It's
timed at requiring only 5 minutes of you.

If you have not yet taken the survey, please do.

Again, that survey is here:
http://www.surveygizmo.com/s3/2472603/27a984492a20

Thanks again for your patience,
Jeff

[Michael Wolf]

Hello all,


Well, that's my situation:

1st question:

I am alone two l10n communities, dsb and hsb plus a number of unknown
users for both languages. :-D

2nd question:
I use the mailinglists in this order: dev-l10n, dev-l10n-web and
tools-l10n, Bugzilla if it is necessary, Mozilla Blog very seldom, IRC
even more seldom and Twitter never.

3rd question:

Daily - all mentioned mailing lists

4th question:

Hm, I'am the only user in two communities. Well, sometimes I speak with
myself :-). Well, I subscribed to the mailing list of the German
community but I prefer to use individual e-mails in general.

5th question:

I don't use none of those channels primarily for l10n communication. But
I use Facebook to inform users about new Mozilla translations. Also,
some of the localizers are in my contacts there.

6th question:

Well, I see the good idea there but I think this question is not very
informative because the valuation is dependent on several factors, e.g.
topic, e.g. if the topic is an information only, if it is about an
issue, how difficult this issue is etc.

Questions 7 - 10 could be one question, or even no question because they
are self-evident for me. From my point of view, they are indispensable.
If there could be more information or less in the reports, well, that's
not the point.


Regards,

Michael W.

[droid...@gmail.com]

Had some problems aswell kinda sucked you could not rank two things the same numbers :( for example i wanted to rank all the tools i haden't heard off 0 and so on oh well or would be nice with a Never used/dunno check box

[Eduardo Trápani]

> Had some problems aswell kinda sucked you could not rank two things the same numbers :( for example i wanted to rank all the tools i haden't heard off 0 and so on oh well or would be nice with a Never used/dunno check box

I ran into the same problem. Your suggestion would work nicely! I like it.

Eduardo.

[Jeffrey Beatty]

Agreed. Hopefully surveygizmo will incorprate that functionality into the
ranking questions.

2015-12-01 13:06 GMT-07:00 Eduardo Trápani <etra...@gmail.com>:

>
> > Had some problems aswell kinda sucked you could not rank two things the
> same numbers :( for example i wanted to rank all the tools i haden't heard
> off 0 and so on oh well or would be nice with a Never used/dunno check box
>

> I ran into the same problem. Your suggestion would work nicely! I like it.
>
> Eduardo.

[Michael Bauer]

Bit of a follow-up on something I feel wasn't covered by the
questionnaire but which should have been. I feel that there is
insufficient communication between management and l10n regarding product
... selection, for the want of a better word. It's not that l10n ought
to be the ultimate arbiter but Mozilla picking up a new project that
will land on l10n or dropping one is very directly linked to what we do
and I suspect a lot of us would like to participate in discussions
surrounding such issues from time to time. Either from a practical l10n
perspective or simply as participants in Mozilla overall.

It should not be that one has to subscribe to *every* Mozilla mailing
list to avoid finding out via the LibreOffice l10n mailing list that
Mozilla is once again toying with the idea of (ultimately) ditching
Thunderbird.

Michael

[Axel Hecht]

I do strongly believe that folks like me need to take one for the team,
and distill the firehose for the team. I don't only do that for the l10n
community, but also the l10n-drivers team.

This year, we've condensed it pretty much, and made it part of the first
half day in our l10n hackathons.

In fact, one of the key arguments for me in favor of doing the
hackathons all around the world was to relay some key messages from the
larger organizational updates and news.

We intend to continue to do that next year. Next week, we'll hash out
the details of what we actually need to collaborate on with you guys in
person, so the format might change or not.

Doing these updates on the mailing lists is hard, sadly. A *lot* of
folks are complaining about the signal-to-noise ratio on the l10n lists.
Giving status updates is hard, without having the ability to quickly
dismiss an update as "I don't care" or "I already know", or even more
importantly "what's that thing you talk about in the first place?". I
personally can't really deliver them in writing, at least. Maybe there's
a better communication pattern and channel to let people find out what's
*actually* important to l10n folks?

As for Thunderbird in particular:

Micheal is referring to the discussion in
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/mozilla.governance/kAyVlhfEcXg,
for those that lack context.

The following is me as a Thunderbird user, long-time mozillian, and
Firefox l10n-drivers staff. I.e., my personal involvement in Thunderbird
and Localization don't overlap at all, and never did.

There are a bunch of people already putting words into Mitchell's mouth.
Please don't join the club. So far, she hasn't said anything different
from what has been said in the past couple of years. Her words were in
the context of making the integration of Thunderbird and Firefox tighter
than it currently is, and she disagrees. Given the current mix doesn't
work for anybody, further apart is what she recommends.

I am lucky enough to get a chance to talk to Mitchell face to face every
now and then. I even talked to her about Thunderbird not too long ago.
I've seen her face being torn between her personal email experience, and
her personal vision for the health of the mozilla organization.

At this point, her (and Mark's) organizational statements are in line
with previous messaging. I personally (and a few others in .governance)
understand those, but we also have a more or less concrete idea of the
technical problems lying ahead of Thunderbird. And those aren't yet
addressed. As Mitchell has mentioned, we're early in this conversation.
At the same time, there are a lot of forcing functions for this
conversation when it comes down to removal of XUL from the platform etc.
I'm confident that technical folks are going to have a conversation that
parallels the organizational one. How exactly that conversations goes,
and what it turns out with, I don't know.

Which is also a reason why I wouldn't have done an update on that on the
l10n groups at this point.

I think that the organizational and technical future of Thunderbird is
challenging. The best we can do for Thunderbird is to keep an open mind,
and assume best intentions for Thunderbird in the people driving the
decision making.
Also take into account that those two conversations are interlinked, but
also separate to a significant degree.

I invite Fallen and/or Standard8 can comment with their personal take, too.

HTH

Axel