Curated list of localized language names for Firefox UI

[Francesco Lodolo [:flod]]

Hi localizers,

Follow-up to the email about dictionaries. Another part of improving the
experience when switching language is to display localized language
names in the UI. Currently, Firefox display languages localized in the
language of the build, for example showing "French" in an English build.

This happens for spell checking in the context menu, when customizing
the preferred languages for web content, and for the brand new language
switcher.

Like for dictionaries, we want to create and maintain a curated list of
language names to use in Firefox UI, instead of exposing hundreds of
strings to all languages for translation. There are a few challenges,
and we need your help to understand if we're using the right approach.

This is the initial curated list
https://mozilla-l10n.github.io/firefox-languages/

It's manually generated by looking at CLDR data where possible, since it
provides both localized names, and a capitalization rule to use such
name in the context of "UI list or menu", which is exactly the context
in which these will be used.

Here you can find the full analysis
https://mozilla-l10n.github.io/firefox-languages/complete.html

I realized afterwards that the dictionary discussion generated a bit of
noise in the mailing list, so let's try a different approach.

If something looks wrong for your language, please provide feedback or
corrections via any of these methods (whichever is easier for you):
* By commenting in this bug
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1481729
* By opening a pull request to edit
https://github.com/mozilla-l10n/firefox-languages/blob/master/output/languages_curated.json
* By opening an issue on https://github.com/mozilla-l10n/firefox-languages
* By reaching out directly to me, either via email, IRC or Telegram

Francesco

[Francesco Lodolo [:flod]]

P.S. please ignore if you receive this twice, the previous message
didn't reach the mailing list for some reasons.

[Michal Stanke]

Hi Flod.

I am looking at the list of languages and I need to ask. Is the language
selector in about:preferences will be the only use for it, or there are
other use cases for it already? As the best language name or UI label may
differ, because:
- Czech as a language can be translated as "čeština" (noun - name of the
language) or "česky" (how should the software speak to you - pronoun).
- Strictly from the view of grammar, in Czech all language names are
general nouns, thus lowercase, the same for pronouns. Following general
rules, both "čeština" and "česky" are not capitalized. However for UI
labels etc. we may want to have it capitalized.

--
Michal

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> dev-l10n mailing list
> dev-...@lists.mozilla.org
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[Francesco Lodolo [:flod]]

Right now the only use-case is for the language switcher (stand-alone,
in a dropdown list).

Next step would be the window to manage installed languages (list item,
dropdown list), similar to the window used to manage languages for web
content.

Possible/natural next steps:
* The window to manage accept-languages (list item, dropdown list).
* The context menu when selecting a dictionary (submenu item).

Currently Firefox should be using "Čeština" everywhere. If that works,
we shouldn't have issues.

Can you give example of contexts where you would use "čeština" vs "česky"?

> Hi Flod.
>
> I am looking at the list of languages and I need to ask. Is the
> language selector in about:preferences will be the only use for it, or
> there are other use cases for it already? As the best language name or
> UI label may differ, because:
> - Czech as a language can be translated as "čeština" (noun - name of
> the language) or "česky" (how should the software speak to you - pronoun).
> - Strictly from the view of grammar, in Czech all language names are
> general nouns, thus lowercase, the same for pronouns. Following
> general rules, both "čeština" and "česky" are not capitalized. However
> for UI labels etc. we may want to have it capitalized.
>
> --
> Michal
>
> 2018-08-08 10:07 GMT+02:00 Francesco Lodolo [:flod] <fl...@lodolo.net

> <mailto:fl...@lodolo.net>>:

> <https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1481729>

> * By opening a pull request to edit
> https://github.com/mozilla-l10n/firefox-languages/blob/master/output/languages_curated.json

> <https://github.com/mozilla-l10n/firefox-languages/blob/master/output/languages_curated.json>

> * By opening an issue on
> https://github.com/mozilla-l10n/firefox-languages
> <https://github.com/mozilla-l10n/firefox-languages>
> * By reaching out directly to me, either via email, IRC or Telegram
>
> Francesco
> _______________________________________________
> dev-l10n mailing list

> dev-...@lists.mozilla.org <mailto:dev-...@lists.mozilla.org>
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-l10n
> <https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-l10n>
>
>

[Michal Stanke]

Dne 8.8.2018 v 18:50 Francesco Lodolo [:flod] napsal(a):

> Right now the only use-case is for the language switcher (stand-alone,
> in a dropdown list).
>
> Next step would be the window to manage installed languages (list
> item, dropdown list), similar to the window used to manage languages
> for web content.
>
> Possible/natural next steps:
> * The window to manage accept-languages (list item, dropdown list).
> * The context menu when selecting a dictionary (submenu item).

"Čeština" works in a select dropdown or when displayed in other ways as
a standalone label. I would be tempted to change all translated language
names to lower case if they are displayed in a list, like in the
accept-languages preferences window. However looking around, seems the
other software is not unified on the field.

>
> Currently Firefox should be using "Čeština" everywhere. If that works,
> we shouldn't have issues.

I have checked and unless there is other source of language names
besides toolkit/chrome/global/languageNames.properties, we should be OK now.

>
> Can you give example of contexts where you would use "čeština" vs "česky"?

An example for "čeština" would be the accept-languages preferences
window, where the selected languages are displayed in a list. E.g.
Chrome or Opera use "čeština" here, I am not sure about examples from MS
world. LibreOffice and GNOME settings have capitalized "Čeština".

The use of "česky" would be more contextual. E.g. if you have a select
box with a label "Check spelling:" and you need to translate it as
"Kontrolovat pravopis" instead of "Jazyk kontroly pravopisu", than
"česky" will be the most suitable option.

Or if we decide for any product to use some fresh/cool style with labels
like "How do you want Fenix to speak to you" etc. Basically anywhere,
where the wording should look more like a dialog or prompt, or the label
+ selected value should make a sentence or statement. We already have
such occurrence - "Firefox will" in the history settings, or the new
autoplay settings.

Michal

[Michael Wolf]

Michal Stanke schrieb:

> I am looking at the list of languages and I need to ask. Is the language
> selector in about:preferences will be the only use for it, or there are
> other use cases for it already? As the best language name or UI label may
> differ, because:
> - Czech as a language can be translated as "čeština" (noun - name of the
> language) or "česky" (how should the software speak to you - pronoun).
> - Strictly from the view of grammar, in Czech all language names are
> general nouns, thus lowercase, the same for pronouns. Following general
> rules, both "čeština" and "česky" are not capitalized. However for UI
> labels etc. we may want to have it capitalized.

Hi Flod, hi Michal

for Upper Sorbian and Lower Sorbian it is similar to Czech.

Upper Sorbian:

language name (noun): hornjoserbšćina
adjective: hornjoserbski, e.g. hornjoserbska rěč "Upper Sorbian language"
adverb: hornjoserbsce. e.g. hornjoserbsce rěčeć "to speak Upper Sorbian"

Lower Sorbian:

language name (noun): dolnoserbšćina
adjective: dolnoserbski, e. g. dolnoserbska rěc "Lower Sorbian language"
adverb: dolnoserbski, e. g. dolnoserbski powědaś "to speak Lower Sorbian"

They correspond to following Czech forms:

language name (noun): čeština
adjective: český, e.g. český jazyk "Czech language"
adverb: česky, e.g. mluvit česky "to speak Czech"

Language names, adjectives and adverbs are not capitalized, as in Czech. And as in Czech,
capitalization, however, is preferred for the GUI.

Nouns and adjectives can be inflected by gender, number and case.


Regards,

Michael