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+1 to preferring in-tree docs.
+1 to preferring in-tree docs.
If we're going to be adding a ton of new docs though, I think it would be worth exploring a different sphinx theme. I find the toctree in the side bar of the default rtd theme is already looking cluttered and getting difficult to navigate. I imagine with an order of magnitude more content, it will be more confusing than helpful.
On Thu, Jun 15, 2017 at 1:04 PM, Andrew Halberstadt <ahalbe...@mozilla.com> wrote:
+1 to preferring in-tree docs.
If we're going to be adding a ton of new docs though, I think it would be worth exploring a different sphinx theme. I find the toctree in the side bar of the default rtd theme is already looking cluttered and getting difficult to navigate. I imagine with an order of magnitude more content, it will be more confusing than helpful.
Yeah, there is definitely room to improve things.
We have full control over what Sphinx plugins, themes, etc we use. You may find tools/docs/conf.py and `./mach doc` useful for tinkering. The Sphinx bits are an underloved feature. So any contributions would be greatly appreciated. Feel free to flag me for review.
As most of the people don't like to spend time writing docs, I am a bit concerned that using in-tree docs with our "heavy" review process (bug, reviewers, etc) will even decrease our contributions to the doc (instead of the MDN wiki
where it is quick to contribute).
We already had fragmented Firefox build docs. We have things scattered between MDN, wiki.mozilla.org, in-tree Sphinx docs, and years of mailing list and blog posts (which sadly are the sole source of some useful info). With MDN pivoting towards the web and being hostile to non-web docs, I think the writing is clear that we should be moving Firefox build/development docs off MDN. Or at the very least we shouldn't continue to invest much effort in the MDN docs.
Maintainers believe they're saying "feel free to make any changes you want, the Wiki is owned by the community." By doing that, they are generally hoping to greatly increase collaboration.
Contributors, however, seem to be intimidated by a Wiki. Most contributors do not feel completely confident in their ability to add correct content, adhere to standards, fit into the right outline, etc. So paradoxically, by making the medium as open as possible, the Wiki discourages contribution.
Readers of documentation greatly appreciate well structured content, and want to be able to trust the accuracy of the content they're reading. Wikis do not inspire this confidence. Despite my previous comments about contributors, readers are (logically) concerned that Wiki content may have been written by someone uninformed, or may have fallen out of date.
Le 16/06/2017 à 16:40, Boris Zbarsky a écrit :
And far from trivial for volunteers who just want to fix one or two
things in the doc :/
S
On 06/16/2017 11:22 AM, J. Ryan Stinnett wrote:
The post goes on to suggest in-tree documentation kept up to date via pull requests as the better approach. I guess the trouble is that at least for mozilla-central, there isn't really a low barrier approach to submitting an in-tree change like a pull request currently.As someone with commit access, even if we lifted all requirements to file bugs, get reviews etc from the process, I'd still find the overhead of contributing to in-tree documentation too high personally unless if my contribution was something I would really consider "worth it". I think moving docs into the tree will exclude the kind of casual contributor who doesn't even know how to bypass all of our process to get their contribution "accepted". Compare this to the current world where they don't need to ask for anyone's blessing beforehand in the first place. :-/
On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 10:05 AM, Sylvestre Ledru <sylv...@mozilla.com <mailto:sylv...@mozilla.com>> wrote:
Le 16/06/2017 à 16:40, Boris Zbarsky a écrit :
And far from trivial for volunteers who just want to fix one or two
things in the doc :/
S
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Coming in late to this thread, but I'd like to strongly support moving our Mozilla internals documentation in the tree.
The fundamental problem with our current doc situation is not that contributing is too hard: the fundamental problem is that our docs are wrong more often than they are right, and there is very poor ability to get rid of old docs or even see all the docs that currently exist. We cannot afford to have documentation be somebody else's problem, where "volunteers will get to it".I don't think we can have a sustainable codebase and community (paid and volunteer) without some fundamental improvements in the way we handle code documentation. Documentation needs to be part of everyday engineering and needs to happen in step with changes in our internal APIs and code structure, rather than as something that happens after-the-fact. Technical writing is a skill that we should be actively teaching senior engineers in the project.
I'd even go farther and say that we should keep some kind of review requirements on documentation, although with perhaps different rules: e.g. module owners and peers can change docs without external review.
The existing in-tree docs are already pretty well discoverable on gecko.readthedocs.io: as an example, searching for "mozilla main ping" has the readthedocs documentation of the main ping at the top spot.
I agree that as we grow scope and breadth of in-tree docs we're going to need better organization and probably different templates. I don't know if that's something mhoye would be willing to own as community manager? Or if not let's raise that as a need to engineering directors. There are a bunch of options, including things like integrating more directly with DXR, the way markdown checked into github repositories renders automatically in the github repo browser.
I've found it almost automatic to modify existing docs. Adding *new* docs is a bit of a pain, because the build machinery isn't obvious. Perhaps we could write down exactly where the overhead lies and actually make this better?
--BDS
On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 10:37 PM, Ehsan Akhgari <ehsan....@gmail.com> wrote:
On 06/16/2017 11:22 AM, J. Ryan Stinnett wrote:
The post goes on to suggest in-tree documentation kept up to date via pull requests as the better approach. I guess the trouble is that at least for mozilla-central, there isn't really a low barrier approach to submitting an in-tree change like a pull request currently.As someone with commit access, even if we lifted all requirements to file bugs, get reviews etc from the process, I'd still find the overhead of contributing to in-tree documentation too high personally unless if my contribution was something I would really consider "worth it". I think moving docs into the tree will exclude the kind of casual contributor who doesn't even know how to bypass all of our process to get their contribution "accepted". Compare this to the current world where they don't need to ask for anyone's blessing beforehand in the first place. :-/
On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 10:05 AM, Sylvestre Ledru <sylv...@mozilla.com <mailto:sylv...@mozilla.com>> wrote:
Le 16/06/2017 à 16:40, Boris Zbarsky a écrit :
And far from trivial for volunteers who just want to fix one or two
things in the doc :/
S
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On 06/20/2017 11:21 AM, Benjamin Smedberg wrote:
Coming in late to this thread, but I'd like to strongly support moving our Mozilla internals documentation in the tree.
It seems that the rest of your post is mostly advocating that we should write documentation, which is hard to argue with. For the record it's not clear to me how you connect that to it being a better choice for the said documentation to live in the tree. (Since you mentioned the anecdotal successful example of telemetry ping documentation, let me counter it with the anecdotal successful example of WebIDL bindings documentation which lives out of the tree: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/WebIDL_bindings.)
IThe existing in-tree docs are already pretty well discoverable on gecko.readthedocs.io <http://gecko.readthedocs.io>: as an example, searching for "mozilla main ping" has the readthedocs documentation of the main ping at the top spot.
I agree that as we grow scope and breadth of in-tree docs we're going to need better organization and probably different templates. I don't know if that's something mhoye would be willing to own as community manager? Or if not let's raise that as a need to engineering directors. There are a bunch of options, including things like integrating more directly with DXR, the way markdown checked into github repositories renders automatically in the github repo browser.
So this thread is about *build system* docs. Now it seems we are talking about all docs?
I've found it almost automatic to modify existing docs. Adding *new* docs is a bit of a pain, because the build machinery isn't obvious. Perhaps we could write down exactly where the overhead lies and actually make this better?
For the record, I think the in-tree documentation system could use some documentation on how it should be used (in case there isn't some already available for it.) For example I am not sure what's the process for an update to something in the tree to go to the live site, how would the different versions of the docs living on the different branches (central/beta etc) get treated differently (for example how should one document something that changed on central before the change hits the rest of the channels?), how to preview the edits I'm making, how to subscribe to notifications (similar to watching a wiki page), etc.
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(I am posting a response to Ehsan's message which somehow was garbled and he kindly corrected in a personal exchange.)
On 2017/06/22 6:10, Ehsan Akhgari wrote:
Oops, not sure how that happened, sorry about that! But that formatting
corruption seemed to have happened in the text I quoted. Here is the newly
added text in my email:
Right, and even depending on the kind of API docs, if you want to exceed
beyond a paragraph or two, keeping the API docs next to the code quickly
loses all of its theoretical benefits. For example, think about how we'd
fit something like <https://developer.mozilla.org
/en-US/docs/Web/API/Background_Tasks_API> next to <
https://searchfox.org/mozilla-central/rev/714606a8145636d93
b116943d3a65a6a49d2acf8/dom/webidl/Window.webidl#495>.
Well, I am not advocating the direct inclusion of complex documents in .idl file or C++/Java/etc. source files.
(Is this implied in the above paragraph. Sorry my native language is NOT English and so sometimes, I lose the nuances.)
On the other hand, if we can keep the original document files in a well known fixed directory, say, "Documentation" directory, e.g, in this case, m-c/dom/webidl/Documentation or
m-c/dom/Documentation, it will be much easier for occasional contributors to figure out where the related documentation to the source code they are modifying exists IF ANY.
BTW I wonder if each file pointed by an entry in
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Background_Tasks_API
has been generated by javadoc or other documentation tools form the annotation in source files themselves(?) They look so, but I am not sure.
In the case of Linux, there is a Documentation directory near the top of the source tree and the directory hierarchy under this "Documenation" reflects the module hierarchy of the real source tree.
Thus you can find SCSI subsystem documents (especially related to driver files) below
Documentation/scsi
Documentations applicable the kernel as a whole often resides directly below Documentation directory.
My point is that a simple command below will find ALL the "official" linux documentation about a keyword. If there is no hit, then there is NONE.
find /usr/src/linux-source-4.9/Documentations -type f -print | xargs egrep -i searched_keyword
The documentation files are plain text.
(There ARE a few exceptions. I found Documentation/sound/alsa/seq_oss.html
with the following command.
find Documentation/ -name "*.html" -print
I also found a DocBook stylesheet under this directory with
find Documentation/ -name "*.x*" -print
Documentation/DocBook/stylesheet.xsl
But the discoverability issue you brought up is a real issue, and is a very
easy one to solve for out of tree docs incidentally with a simple moz.build
annotation similar to BUG_COMPONENT, I think.
I am not sure here.
Are you advocating a keyword value pair in the document to make it easy to search by Google?
I want to make it easy to access the documentation even without such trick by creating a single place where such documents reside.
(Yes, this directory could be large. But so is the rest of the source tree. In this sense, the documentation directory does not have to be within M-C/C-C, etc. It could be D-C directory with its own repository.
Making it easy to find by having a SINGLE repository is an idea.
In linux's case, that is "Documentation" directory.
For official documents, that is it. It happens to be inside the source tree as well under same git management (I think.)
In the case of linux, there can be other tutorials written for mortals, but we can always check the Documentation directory for any final word from module maintainers, driver writers and such.
I think this has helped the contribution from volunteers.
I wonder if we can consolidate all the documentation pieces in one directory/repository (or be part of the source tree if it is tenable).
Yeah I am also looking for ward to this feature, more for regular code review though. _______________________________________________
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