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Vishwanathan Krishnamoorthy

unread,
Oct 7, 2013, 11:06:57 AM10/7/13
to Hallvord R. M. Steen, alef...@gmail.com, compat...@lists.mozilla.org
Hi all,

Meet Thanos, who attended the open session in SC. Thanos is with the Greece community and is working to identify sites that do not work with our mobile browser.
He showed me a spreadsheet with traffic lights for sites in Greece.

Thanos was wondering if we had tools they can use and communication material for outreach to broken sites

Thanos, welcome and thank you for your (and the communities) work

regards
Vishy

Mike Taylor

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Oct 8, 2013, 11:05:38 AM10/8/13
to alef...@gmail.com, compat...@lists.mozilla.org
Hi Thanos,

On 07/10/2013 10:06, Vishwanathan Krishnamoorthy wrote:
> Meet Thanos, who attended the open session in SC. Thanos is with the Greece community and is working to identify sites that do not work with our mobile browser.
> He showed me a spreadsheet with traffic lights for sites in Greece.

This is really exciting! Welcome to our little community of broken
websites. :)

> Thanos was wondering if we had tools they can use and communication material for outreach to broken sites

Have you had a chance to look the compat guide [1] or contact letters
[2]? The Guide lists a few of the tools and techniques that we're using
on a day to day basis for testing. Naturally it's incomplete, so please
ask us questions here if anything is confusing or join us in the
#webcompat IRC channel.

[1] https://wiki.mozilla.org/Compatibility/Guide
[2]
https://wiki.mozilla.org/Compatibility/StdLetters#Standard_letters_for_contacting_websites

(We're actually missing a Greek translation for the contact form... ;)

Best,

--
Mike Taylor
Web Compat, Mozilla

Stefania Ioana Chiorean

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Oct 8, 2013, 11:59:55 AM10/8/13
to Mike Taylor, compat...@lists.mozilla.org, alef...@gmail.com, Alfredos (fredy) Damkalis
Hi guys,
I saw on Reps that Fredy (Alfredos ) translated it a few minutes ago!

Iuhuu!

Regards,

--
*Stefania Ioana Chiorean
Mozilla Reps Council Member
@ioana_cis
*



On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 6:05 PM, Mike Taylor <mi...@mozilla.com> wrote:

> Hi Thanos,
>
>
> On 07/10/2013 10:06, Vishwanathan Krishnamoorthy wrote:
>
>> Meet Thanos, who attended the open session in SC. Thanos is with the
>> Greece community and is working to identify sites that do not work with our
>> mobile browser.
>> He showed me a spreadsheet with traffic lights for sites in Greece.
>>
>
> This is really exciting! Welcome to our little community of broken
> websites. :)
>
>
> Thanos was wondering if we had tools they can use and communication
>> material for outreach to broken sites
>>
>
> Have you had a chance to look the compat guide [1] or contact letters [2]?
> The Guide lists a few of the tools and techniques that we're using on a day
> to day basis for testing. Naturally it's incomplete, so please ask us
> questions here if anything is confusing or join us in the #webcompat IRC
> channel.
>
> [1] https://wiki.mozilla.org/**Compatibility/Guide<https://wiki.mozilla.org/Compatibility/Guide>
> [2] https://wiki.mozilla.org/**Compatibility/StdLetters#**
> Standard_letters_for_**contacting_websites<https://wiki.mozilla.org/Compatibility/StdLetters#Standard_letters_for_contacting_websites>
>
> (We're actually missing a Greek translation for the contact form... ;)
>
> Best,
>
> --
> Mike Taylor
> Web Compat, Mozilla
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> compatibility mailing list
> compat...@lists.mozilla.**org <compat...@lists.mozilla.org>
> https://lists.mozilla.org/**listinfo/compatibility<https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/compatibility>
>

Hallvord R. M. Steen

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Oct 9, 2013, 5:07:02 PM10/9/13
to Stefania Ioana Chiorean, compat...@lists.mozilla.org, alef...@gmail.com, Mike Taylor, Alfredos (fredy) Damkalis
> I saw on Reps that Fredy (Alfredos ) translated it a few minutes ago!

Great, thanks! :-)

As for going through the spreadsheet: we're working on scripts that should be able to spider through a list of sites and highlight potential problems. I have something (based on a greasemonkey script, a local server and a trivial PHP backend), and a volunteer I met at the summit is working on a much more powerful Python-based rig right now. If you wish, it would be pretty easy for me to give your list of URLs a test run - or, if we wait a few days the Python stuff might be ready with considerable more magic power ;-).

Regarding the manual testing: I hope you're aware that it's useful to report Bugzilla bugs also when the bug is in the site and not in Firefox! We've set up a simplified form for reporting mobile compat issues: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/form.mobile.compat - feel free to use it! And finally, if there's anything you want analysis assistance for, feel free to CC or needinfo me or Mike Taylor!

-Hallvord

Thanos Lefteris

unread,
Oct 13, 2013, 4:31:31 PM10/13/13
to compat...@lists.mozilla.org, Alfredos (fredy) Damkalis
Hi all,

Sorry for the delay. I stayed a few more days in SF after the summit
and didn't have much free time. This is what I have done so far:

* I have gone thought the first 100 more popular sites in Greece
(according to Alexa http://www.alexa.com/topsites/countries/GR) and
found out if they are responsive, if they redirect to a mobile site
for iOS Safari and if they have native mobile apps. The spreadsheet is
at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AoI7D12IhDwWdGluQWwyekFEVDRqNnU5eFFiLWlhVFE&usp=sharing
. Another list of popular sites I found is at
http://toolbar.netcraft.com/stats/topsites?c=GR This includes only
sites with the Greek domain (.gr) but I think the ranking is more
representative. We also have a different spreadsheet from
everything.me with a list of popular sites that I have to merge
together. Not sure if I can share this here (fredy?).
* Subscribed to this mailing list and joined the IRC channel
* Created https://wiki.mozilla.org/Compatibility/Mobile/Greece
* Submitted my first compat bug
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=926218

Don't know how to mark that the bug affects both Firefox for Android
and Firefox OS. Also is the format ok?

I'm testing using Firefox for Android on a real device and the Firefox
OS Simulator.

Some questions:

Some issues I faced during testing is that a few sites don't redirect
from naked domain to the www subdomain. I think this is important,
especially in mobile, where users should type as little as possible.
Do you think this is worth mentioning when contacting the affected
site?

Another issue is with bookmarks. Some sites don't set an icon when
adding to home screen on Firefox OS. Is there any guidance on the best
way to set favicons that will work optimally in Firefox OS as well as
other browsers? Also the title text for the home page IMHO should
start with the site name, so that the bookmark is more recognizable.
Do you think those problems are also worth testing and mentioning to
the affected sites?

For sites that work fine in Firefox OS, is there any sample letter
text that we can contact them with, to persuade them to add openwebapp
manifests or add them to the Marketplace?

Thanks

Mike Taylor

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Oct 14, 2013, 10:41:34 AM10/14/13
to compat...@lists.mozilla.org
Hi Thanos,

Just responding to part of your email--I'll leave others to chime in on
the rest (due to my own ignorance).

On 13/10/2013 15:31, Thanos Lefteris wrote:

> * Submitted my first compat bug
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=926218
>
> Don't know how to mark that the bug affects both Firefox for Android
> and Firefox OS. Also is the format ok?

It's perfect. :)

> Some questions:
>
> Some issues I faced during testing is that a few sites don't redirect
> from naked domain to the www subdomain. I think this is important,
> especially in mobile, where users should type as little as possible.
> Do you think this is worth mentioning when contacting the affected
> site?

If the behavior is the same across all mobile browsers, it's not really
a compat issue, more of a UX thing (maybe). However, it doesn't hurt to
suggest that in a friendly manner if you're already in contact with the
site, IMO.

Thanks!

Hallvord R. M. Steen

unread,
Oct 14, 2013, 4:54:39 PM10/14/13
to Thanos Lefteris, compat...@lists.mozilla.org, Alfredos (fredy) Damkalis
> This is what I have done so far:

Great work! :-) Impressive testing behind that spreadsheet.

> * I have gone thought the first 100 more popular sites in Greece
> (according to Alexa http://www.alexa.com/topsites/countries/GR) and
> found out if they are responsive, if they redirect to a mobile site
> for iOS Safari and if they have native mobile apps. The spreadsheet is
> at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AoI7D12IhDwWdGluQWwyekFEVDRqNnU5eFFiLWlhVFE&usp=sharing

I don't know if you've seen the country-specific (Alexa-data based) lists on arewecompatibleyet.com . I'm happy to add a list of Greek sites - as many as you like, either the list from your spreadsheet or from Netcraft.

> Some issues I faced during testing is that a few sites don't redirect
> from naked domain to the www subdomain. I think this is important,
> especially in mobile, where users should type as little as possible.
> Do you think this is worth mentioning when contacting the affected
> site?

I agree with Mike - IMO we should not at this point spend time contacting the site if this is the only issue (mainly due to the opportunity cost - that we could presumably use that time to contact another site with a worse problem instead) - but it's worth mentioning if we contact them anyway.

> Another issue is with bookmarks. Some sites don't set an icon when
> adding to home screen on Firefox OS. Is there any guidance on the best
> way to set favicons that will work optimally in Firefox OS as well as
> other browsers?

No idea here. I think you're ahead of us ;-D

> Also the title text for the home page IMHO should
> start with the site name, so that the bookmark is more recognizable.
> Do you think those problems are also worth testing and mentioning to
> the affected sites?

Ditto - if you're contacting them anyway. One tip, though, is to maybe not mention such relatively small points in the initial letter, if you're trying to get through customer support or something like that.

> For sites that work fine in Firefox OS, is there any sample letter
> text that we can contact them with, to persuade them to add openwebapp
> manifests or add them to the Marketplace?

You're definitely ahead of us :-)
-Hallvord

Lawrence Mandel

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Oct 15, 2013, 5:12:54 PM10/15/13
to Hallvord R. M. Steen, compat...@lists.mozilla.org, Thanos Lefteris, Alfredos (fredy) Damkalis
----- Original Message -----
> > This is what I have done so far:
>
> Great work! :-) Impressive testing behind that spreadsheet.

+1! Thanks for jumping in here.

> > Don't know how to mark that the bug affects both Firefox for Android
> > and Firefox OS. Also is the format ok?

I would set the platform as ARM > All.

>
> > * I have gone thought the first 100 more popular sites in Greece
> > (according to Alexa http://www.alexa.com/topsites/countries/GR) and
> > found out if they are responsive, if they redirect to a mobile site
> > for iOS Safari and if they have native mobile apps. The spreadsheet is
> > at
> > https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AoI7D12IhDwWdGluQWwyekFEVDRqNnU5eFFiLWlhVFE&usp=sharing
>
> I don't know if you've seen the country-specific (Alexa-data based) lists on
> arewecompatibleyet.com . I'm happy to add a list of Greek sites - as many as
> you like, either the list from your spreadsheet or from Netcraft.
>
> > Some issues I faced during testing is that a few sites don't redirect
> > from naked domain to the www subdomain. I think this is important,
> > especially in mobile, where users should type as little as possible.
> > Do you think this is worth mentioning when contacting the affected
> > site?
>
> I agree with Mike - IMO we should not at this point spend time contacting the
> site if this is the only issue (mainly due to the opportunity cost - that we
> could presumably use that time to contact another site with a worse problem
> instead) - but it's worth mentioning if we contact them anyway.

I agree. Our goal is generally parity across platforms. Passing on general usability improvements seems like a fine idea so long as it doesn't distract from fixing the real problems.

>
> > Another issue is with bookmarks. Some sites don't set an icon when
> > adding to home screen on Firefox OS. Is there any guidance on the best
> > way to set favicons that will work optimally in Firefox OS as well as
> > other browsers?
>
> No idea here. I think you're ahead of us ;-D

This is a real problem on Firefox OS and is likely due to sites not setting a favicon (or not setting it in the way that is required). In this case, Firefox OS should probably show some sort of default icon.

Lawrence

>
> > Also the title text for the home page IMHO should
> > start with the site name, so that the bookmark is more recognizable.
> > Do you think those problems are also worth testing and mentioning to
> > the affected sites?
>
> Ditto - if you're contacting them anyway. One tip, though, is to maybe not
> mention such relatively small points in the initial letter, if you're trying
> to get through customer support or something like that.
>
> > For sites that work fine in Firefox OS, is there any sample letter
> > text that we can contact them with, to persuade them to add openwebapp
> > manifests or add them to the Marketplace?
>
> You're definitely ahead of us :-)
> -Hallvord
> _______________________________________________
> compatibility mailing list
> compat...@lists.mozilla.org
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/compatibility
>

Karl Dubost

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Oct 15, 2013, 5:29:35 PM10/15/13
to Lawrence Mandel, compat...@lists.mozilla.org, Thanos Lefteris, Hallvord R. M. Steen, Alfredos (fredy) Damkalis
Thanos,

>>> Another issue is with bookmarks. Some sites don't set an icon when
>>> adding to home screen on Firefox OS. Is there any guidance on the best
>>> way to set favicons that will work optimally in Firefox OS as well as
>>> other browsers?

Yes there is. See comment 6
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=921014#c6

> This is a real problem on Firefox OS and is likely due to sites not setting a favicon (or not setting it in the way that is required). In this case, Firefox OS should probably show some sort of default icon.

In fact it seems not many sites are actually providing icons for other devices. It's what we discussed about the support of link rel="apple-touch-icon" in https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=921014

See the comment 19
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=921014#c19



--
Karl Dubost, Mozilla
http://www.la-grange.net/karl/moz

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