9to5 Mac reports iPhone XS & iPhone XS Max has serious battery problems, already...

[Arlen Holder]

As always, Apple let's the _users_ test their releases in the real world!

iPhone XS and iPhone XS Max units not charging automatically when power cable is plugged in
<https://9to5mac.com/2018/09/29/iphone-xs-automatic-power-charge-issue/>

"iPhone XS and iPhone XS Max owners noticing that their phones do not start
charging when a Lightning cable is plugged in when the screen is off."

As you are aware, Apple never tests their iOS releases either...

"Readers reporting similar problems on iPads and older iPhones. This gives
credence to the idea that it is a software bug with iOS 12."

[Lloyd]

Yeah, some few posters are complying about that on MacRumours forums. I
haven’t seen any of the issues that are getting play on my Xs Max.

--
Lloyd

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 12:55:20 -0500, Lloyd wrote:

> Yeah, some few posters are complying about that on MacRumours forums. I

> haven┤ seen any of the issues that are getting play on my Xs Max.

It seems pretty bad in that the result will be that all users with the new
phones will have to 'babysit' them constantly, just to see if they're
charging.

So that makes _all_ the related iOS12 devices in the problem set since you
don't want to wake up in the morning with a dead device after thinking it
was charging all night when it's not.

Is there any way to backport the previous iOS release to these new phones
so that all users with these phones on iOS 12 can sleep at night without
worrying that their iOS device is repeatedly not charging?

[Lloyd]

Arlen Holder <arlen...@no.spam.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 12:55:20 -0500, Lloyd wrote:
>
>> Yeah, some few posters are complying about that on MacRumours forums. I

>> havenąt seen any of the issues that are getting play on my Xs Max.

>
> It seems pretty bad in that the result will be that all users with the new
> phones will have to 'babysit' them constantly, just to see if they're
> charging.
>
> So that makes _all_ the related iOS12 devices in the problem set since you
> don't want to wake up in the morning with a dead device after thinking it
> was charging all night when it's not.
>
> Is there any way to backport the previous iOS release to these new phones
> so that all users with these phones on iOS 12 can sleep at night without
> worrying that their iOS device is repeatedly not charging?
>

Since the issue is not affecting “all’ users, and actually isn’t getting
that many reports, your post is as usual, a mountain where a mole hill
would be a better descriptor.

--
Lloyd

[Alan Browne]

On 2018-09-29 14:08, Lloyd wrote:

> Since
Many are practicing not replying to it, indeed killfiling it. Hint.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 13:08:17 -0500, Lloyd wrote:

> Since the issue is not affecting ´allÿ users, and actually isnÿt getting

> that many reports, your post is as usual, a mountain where a mole hill
> would be a better descriptor.

I only speak fact.
Facts are your weakness, Lloyd.

You may not like facts, Lloyd, but that doesn't make facts not facts.

Since it's a fact that the cause is currently unknown, and it's a fact that
the problem is certainly happening to unsuspecting owners, then it's
logically deduced by an *adult*, Lloyd, that _any_ potentially affected
user easily can wake up with a dead device - until Apple explains why their
new devices aren't charging when they users expect them to be charging.

That's a fact, Lloyd.
You don't like facts.

But the fact you don't like facts doesn't change that facts are facts.

*Fact is _all_ potentially affected users have to constantly check!*

Since Apple hasn't figured out what the problem is yet (AFAIK), all users
with iOS 12, not just the owners of the potentially flawed devices, has to
constantly be on the lookout.

The design problem _may_ be related to the phones, but it also might be
related to the iOS release, where, without the ability to backtrack to a
non-flawed release, the users are (again) fucked by Apple's obvious lack of
testing in the real world.

*That means _everyone_ with iOS 12, has to baby sit their phone each night.*

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 14:15:42 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:

> Many are practicing not replying to it, indeed killfiling it. Hint.

[Lloyd]

Yeah I know. He is such an insufferable troll, I can’t help myself on some
fairly rare occasions. My bad! 😫

--
Lloyd

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 13:21:48 -0500, Lloyd wrote:

> Yeah I know. He is such an insufferable troll, I can’t help myself on some

> fairly rare occasions. My bad! ��

*You _hate_ me, Lloyd ... because I speak facts.*

[Alan Browne]

All is forgiven.

--
"2/3 of Donald Trump's wives were immigrants. Proof that we
need immigrants to do jobs that most Americans wouldn't do."
- unknown protester

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 18:18:46 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:

> Since Apple hasn't figured out what the problem is yet (AFAIK), all users
> with iOS 12, not just the owners of the potentially flawed devices, has to
> constantly be on the lookout.

Given Alan Browne clearly hasn't obtained the level of a high school
equivalency education yet (based on what he writes), I wish to correct a
typo in that sentence above, given that all uneducated children like Alan
Browne _can_ do, is play silly childish games.

Due to this new bug (which is a fact the Apologists don't like):
Since Apple hasn't figured out what the problem is yet, all users

with iOS 12, not just the owners of the potentially flawed devices,

have to constantly be on the lookout.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 14:24:22 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:

> All is forgiven.

The fact is that any Apple owner with iOS 12 has to constantly be on the
lookout to ensure that their device is charging, where, the owners of the
new phones are fucked, simply because Apple (yet again) failed to test
their devices and releases together, in the real world.

That's a fact.

*You don't like facts, Alan Browne; but that doesn't make facts not facts.*

[JF Mezei]

On 2018-09-29 13:52, Arlen Holder wrote:

> "iPhone XS and iPhone XS Max owners noticing that their phones do not start
> charging when a Lightning cable is plugged in when the screen is off."

When Apple introduced the "lock" to prevent computers from accessing
data on iPhone unless iPhone was first unlocked, I experienced this a
couple of times, but not constently. That was at IOS 11.something.

The warning to unlock phone would come up when I plugged the lightning
cable (connected to MAc's USB), but the phone would not "chime" to
indicate it was charging (nor would tiny charging icon come up on
right). Unlocking phone triggered charging process,

But as I said, this was not repeatable on demand, it happened a few times.


Oh, funny. I just plugged my phone to test it, and with IOS 12, I got
the problem to happen. Got the warning to unlock, no charging chime, no
charging icon and after a few seconds o inactivity, phone went dark. So
problem is still there.

This is with a 6S, not a fancy XS.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 17:05:41 -0400, JF Mezei wrote:

> Oh, funny. I just plugged my phone to test it, and with IOS 12, I got
> the problem to happen. Got the warning to unlock, no charging chime, no
> charging icon and after a few seconds o inactivity, phone went dark. So
> problem is still there.
>
> This is with a 6S, not a fancy XS.

Thanks for that information, where, to my knowledge, Apple hasn't yet
commented on what they missed in testing either the new phones or in iOS 12
that is causing devices to suddenly not charge.

My assertion, since the cause isn't known yet, is that _everyone_ with
potentially affected devices, has to be constantly on the lookout for this
flaw.

Let's keep ourselves informed of the facts, where, the main question I have
is how to back port to a more stable release if someone made the mistake of
updating to iOS 12 (and if iOS 12 turns out to be the proximate cause of
the problem).

[David Empson]

JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> When Apple introduced the "lock" to prevent computers from accessing
> data on iPhone unless iPhone was first unlocked, I experienced this a
> couple of times, but not constently. That was at IOS 11.something.
>
> The warning to unlock phone would come up when I plugged the lightning
> cable (connected to MAc's USB), but the phone would not "chime" to
> indicate it was charging (nor would tiny charging icon come up on
> right). Unlocking phone triggered charging process,
>
> But as I said, this was not repeatable on demand, it happened a few times.
>
>
> Oh, funny. I just plugged my phone to test it, and with IOS 12, I got
> the problem to happen. Got the warning to unlock, no charging chime, no
> charging icon and after a few seconds o inactivity, phone went dark. So
> problem is still there.
>
> This is with a 6S, not a fancy XS.

That is intended behaviour due to a new security feature in iOS 11.4.1
and later.

https://support.apple.com/HT208857

As stated, it "may" prevent charging when plugging in to a computer if
the device has not been unlocked in the last hour.

It does NOT affect charging when plugged into a power adapter.

The rules differ because:

1. A power adapter uses a simple connection and resistance test, and
does not require USB data connection, therefore works even if this
security feature is active.

2. A standard USB port on a computer initially outputs a limited current
until the device negotiates for more current. This requires a USB
connection, which is blocked by the new security feature in iOS 11.4.1
and later if the device was not unlocked recently.

3. Some computer USB ports output more power by default, even if the
connected device doesn't communicate via USB. (This is why Apple said
"may".)


The problem described in the 9to5Mac article may be related to this
feature but it happens in cases where the security feature should not be
preventing charging: with the USB Accessories option enabled, or when
using a simple power adapter.

It sounds like a software bug that Apple should be able to fix.

--
David Empson
dem...@actrix.gen.nz

[JF Mezei]

On 2018-09-29 19:59, David Empson wrote:

> As stated, it "may" prevent charging when plugging in to a computer if
> the device has not been unlocked in the last hour.

Your explanation about USB negotiation makes sense, but its is not
expected by a user who plugs it in only to get power.

At the very least, the phone's "alert" should mention charging as well
as datra exchanges needing phone unlocked.

> It sounds like a software bug that Apple should be able to fix.

If what happens to me is considered "normal" by Apple, but what happens
to the XS isn't then it is definitely something else. (probably in the
same code, but triggered by another set of conditions)

[Arlen Holder]

On 29 Sep 2018 16:59:42 GMT, David Empson wrote:

> It sounds like a software bug that Apple should be able to fix.

Clearly Apple (yet again) failed to test their designs in the real world.

That's a fact.

Why does Apple constantly fail to test their designs in the real world?
I don't know why.

Partially it might be because Apple says the real world is "not supported".

Hence, I suspect Apple is so used to the 'walled garden' artificialities,
that Apple tends to forget that the real world actually exists.

Time will tell when we know more about the proximate cause of this flaw.

[Arlen Holder]

On 29 Sep 2018 18:00:12 GMT, JF Mezei wrote:

> If what happens to me is considered "normal" by Apple, but what happens
> to the XS isn't then it is definitely something else. (probably in the
> same code, but triggered by another set of conditions)

*Yet again, this is proof that Apple doesn't test in the real world!*

The situation appears to be pretty bad, at present, since it clearly shows
Apple (again) forgot to test their devices in the real world.

Forbes reported, for example, that 75% of the new phones tested failed to
charge from standby!
<https://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2018/09/29/apple-iphone-xs-max-battery-life-charging-problem-price-cost-iphone-xr-update/#71a5b5a5a3d1>

And it just gets worse from there.
"Curious about how widespread this is, Hilsenteger attained eight iPhone
XS and iPhone XS Max models and connected them to the standard charger
Apple bundles in the box. Of the eight only two (one iPhone XS, one iPhone
XS Max) worked correctly and charged from standby.

Five of the other six (two iPhone XS, three iPhone XS Max) refused to
charge until their screens were woken up, while one iPhone XS Max refused
to charge under any circumstances and froze for several minutes when the
charger was inserted. "

*Yet again, this is proof that Apple doesn't test in the real world!*

[Lewis]

In message <weVrD.252791$YL3.1...@fx48.iad> JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> On 2018-09-29 19:59, David Empson wrote:

>> As stated, it "may" prevent charging when plugging in to a computer if
>> the device has not been unlocked in the last hour.

> Your explanation about USB negotiation makes sense, but its is not
> expected by a user who plugs it in only to get power.

Nearly no one plugs in to a computer to charge.

> At the very least, the phone's "alert" should mention charging as well
> as datra exchanges needing phone unlocked.

But it only need to be unlocked to charge if the device on the other
side is requiring USB and not simply using the power pins. So it might
happen with a "smart" charger, depending on how it is implemented.

But most people plug in to the 5W lock that comes with the phone.

--
Lady Astor: "If you were my husband I'd give you poison." Churchill: "If
you were my wife, I'd drink it."

[Alan Browne]

On 2018-09-30 12:49, Lewis wrote:
> In message <weVrD.252791$YL3.1...@fx48.iad> JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
>> On 2018-09-29 19:59, David Empson wrote:
>
>>> As stated, it "may" prevent charging when plugging in to a computer if
>>> the device has not been unlocked in the last hour.
>
>> Your explanation about USB negotiation makes sense, but its is not
>> expected by a user who plugs it in only to get power.
>
> Nearly no one plugs in to a computer to charge.

My SO does because her home desk doesn't have a convenient power outlet
nearby.

>> At the very least, the phone's "alert" should mention charging as well
>> as datra exchanges needing phone unlocked.
>
> But it only need to be unlocked to charge if the device on the other
> side is requiring USB and not simply using the power pins. So it might
> happen with a "smart" charger, depending on how it is implemented.
>
> But most people plug in to the 5W lock that comes with the phone.

We also use non Apple chargers (high quality, mind you) at one location
in the house. At work I use an iPad charger for my phone.

Also have a charger in my car (that comes out of the sound system).

[Arlen Holder]

On Sun, 30 Sep 2018 16:49:47 -0000 (UTC), Lewis wrote:

> But most people plug in to the 5W lock that comes with the phone.

Reliable tests clearly show the design flaw is unrelated to the charger.
<https://youtu.be/J_lRJuQtBmc>

[JF Mezei]

On 2018-09-30 15:23, Arlen Holder wrote:

> Reliable tests clearly show the design flaw is unrelated to the charger.
> <https://youtu.be/J_lRJuQtBmc>

I've only experienced this post 11.3 on my 6S when plugged into a
computer. Rarely use the USB chargers.

Somehow, I doubt the 5W charger has USB data exchanges and likely
functions only via resistance to tell the device how much it can send.
As such, any phone should charge automatically when plugged in, even if
data exchanges are suspended pending authentication (and that shouldn't
be required for power/charging).


The one test they haven't done is what happens when you power donw the
phone. Will charging then work fine as soon as you plug in the cable ?

[Arlen H Holder]

On Mon, 1 Oct 2018 02:08:58 -0400, JF Mezei wrote:

> As such, any phone should charge automatically when plugged in, even if
> data exchanges are suspended pending authentication (and that shouldn't
> be required for power/charging).

While David Empson is one of the few people on this newsgroup who deserve
respect for his acuity and acumen, I think David unnecessarily led you down
the wrong path when he explained the USB hardware intricacies.

There certainly are many people befuddled right now as to the cause, where,
if the prior experience with the CPU throttling is any indication, the
silence by Apple is a repeat indication that they, themselves, don't have a
clue.

As you are aware, I'm the one who first reported to this ng the previous
set of design flaws, just as I reported first the iOS-to-linux design
flaws, and the horrid broadcom design flaws, and just as I reported first
the mac root-password flaws, etc.

Hence it's clear that I'm pretty "up" on Apple design flaws, where this
design flaw, like all the others, will have to wait for Apple's extremely
carefully crafted 'legal document' on
a) What is the proximate cause of the problem, and,
b) What is Apple's remedy to make its users whole.

In the prior response, the "remedy" to make users whole was to secretly,
permanently, and drastically throttle CPUs (which, I posit, is a lousy
solution to Apple's design flaws).

In that prior response, the "legal document" wasn't even _signed_ for
heaven's sake (a clear indicator for sure), where the hilarity is that only
the Apple Apologists failed to note how Apple blamed everything possible
(even Android, in their legally round-about way) for Apple's design flaws.

What's amazing, to me, is how much Apple gets away with this obvious
subterfuge, where only Apple users could be that gullible as to *pay* for a
new battery for the flawed phones when they already paid dearly for the
flawed phones.

If you ever wonder why Apple devices historically have an atrocious overall
cost of ownership, you have to partially blame the users, who, in this
case, are willing to add *hundreds of dollars* to the overall cost of
ownership, just to rectify the costs Apple should have swallowed for
selling them what is clearly a defective device.

> The one test they haven't done is what happens when you power down

> the phone. Will charging then work fine as soon as you plug in the cable ?

Let's see if we can find a report of that specific test & report back.

--
The problem is if Apple consistently gets something this obvious and simple
so very wrong, what about the hard stuff? (Like actual security.)