Words - Damn, Hell and Crap
Subba Rao
I hear (and I have used sometimes) these 2 words a lot in spoken english
in the US. Are the words "Damn" and "Hell" swear words?
Example sentences - Who the hell gives a damn?
Go to hell.
Who gives a damn anyway.
Hot Damn.
What would be the best substitute words for these words?
Thank you for any information.
Subba Rao
s u p e r o <AT> a t t g l o b a l <DOT> n e t
PS - Is "crap" a swear word as well? "What is this crap?" or "What
they are giving you is crap."
Simon R. Hughes
> Hi,
>
> I hear (and I have used sometimes) these 2 words a lot in spoken english
> in the US. Are the words "Damn" and "Hell" swear words?
>
> Example sentences - Who the hell gives a damn?
> Go to hell.
> Who gives a damn anyway.
> Hot Damn.
>
> What would be the best substitute words for these words?
> Thank you for any information.
"Who the fuck gives a shit?"
"Go to buggery."
"Who gives a fuck anyway?"
"Fucking Hell!"
>
> Subba Rao
> s u p e r o <AT> a t t g l o b a l <DOT> n e t
>
> PS - Is "crap" a swear word as well? "What is this crap?" or "What
> they are giving you is crap."
Crap is not a swear word, it's what you find yourself in when you
have lied to the electorate.
--
Simon R. Hughes <!-- Kill "Kenny" for email. -->
<!-- 67 deg. 17' N; 14 deg. 23' E -->
John Ings
wrote:
>I hear (and I have used sometimes) these 2 words a lot in spoken english
>in the US. Are the words "Damn" and "Hell" swear words?
>
>Example sentences - Who the hell gives a damn?
> Go to hell.
> Who gives a damn anyway.
> Hot Damn.
In the past such usages were never heard in 'polite company'. That is
to say, when ladies were present or in formal situations. There was a
great furor when Rhett Butler in the movie "Gone With the Wind" told
Scarlet "Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn!"
That was in the 1930s and 40s. These days practically everybody uses
such phrases. They have lost their sting so-to-speak.
>What would be the best substitute words for these words?
'Heck' used to be substituted for 'hell' and 'darn' used to be
substituted for damn'.
>PS - Is "crap" a swear word as well?
Yes, but it too is much less offensive to modern ears than it once
was.
Peter Morris
"Subba Rao" <sai...@attglobal.net> wrote in message
news:vjpejin...@corp.supernews.com...
> Hi,
>
> I hear (and I have used sometimes) these 2 words a lot in spoken english
> in the US. Are the words "Damn" and "Hell" swear words?
Yes, albeit very mild ones. A few decades ago they were considered
shocking. The makers of 'Gone With The Wind' were fined for
including the line 'Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn'.
These days nobody would care.
> Example sentences - Who the hell gives a damn?
> Go to hell.
> Who gives a damn anyway.
> Hot Damn.
>
> What would be the best substitute words for these words?
> Thank you for any information.
Who the heck gives a darn
Go fly a kite.
Who gives a darn anyway.
Darn tootin'
> Subba Rao
> s u p e r o <AT> a t t g l o b a l <DOT> n e t
>
> PS - Is "crap" a swear word as well? "What is this crap?" or "What
> they are giving you is crap."
Yes, a bit stronger.
Tamakazura
> Thus spake Subba Rao:
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>I hear (and I have used sometimes) these 2 words a lot in spoken english
>>in the US. Are the words "Damn" and "Hell" swear words?
>>
>>Example sentences - Who the hell gives a damn?
>> Go to hell.
>> Who gives a damn anyway.
>> Hot Damn.
>>
>>What would be the best substitute words for these words?
>>Thank you for any information.
>
>
> "Who the fuck gives a shit?"
Is "shit" a countable word?
Aaron J. Dinkin
>> Hot Damn.
>>
>> What would be the best substitute words for these words?
>
> Darn tootin'
I disagree. "Hot damn" means 'wow!', but "darn tootin'" means 'you said
it!'
-Aaron J. Dinkin
Dr. Whom
Don Phillipson
news:vjpejin...@corp.supernews.com...
> I hear (and I have used sometimes) these 2 words a lot in spoken english
> in the US. Are the words "Damn" and "Hell" swear words?
They are classic swear words because religious
in origin, i.e. invoking what used to be the society's
primary values. (Quebec French swearing has always
interested linguists because it is ultra-religious, e.g.
uses such technical words as Host, Ciborium etc. for
non-religious words -- thus ideal "profanity.")
> PS - Is "crap" a swear word as well? "What is this crap?" or "What
> they are giving you is crap."
It means excrement, i.e. something unmentionable,
thus is a secondary profanity (secondary because
non-religious: and thus possibly more common,
cf. French "merde.")
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada)
dphillipson[at]trytel.com
John Ings
<dphil...@trytel.com> wrote:
>Quebec French swearing has always
>interested linguists because it is ultra-religious, e.g.
>uses such technical words as Host, Ciborium etc. for
>non-religious words -- thus ideal "profanity.
It's not all that creative though. For really creative cussing you
need to consult an Arab.
"May the fleas from a thousand camels infest your armpits!"
is one example.
Irwell
>
>"Subba Rao" <sai...@attglobal.net> wrote in message
>news:vjpejin...@corp.supernews.com...
>> Hi,
>>
>> I hear (and I have used sometimes) these 2 words a lot in spoken english
>> in the US. Are the words "Damn" and "Hell" swear words?
>
>Yes, albeit very mild ones. A few decades ago they were considered
>shocking. The makers of 'Gone With The Wind' were fined for
>including the line 'Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn'.
>
This was about the same time that 'not bloody likely'
spoken by Eliza Doolittle in George Bernard Shaw's
'Pygmalion' caused another sensation.
Mike Lyle
[...]
> (Quebec French swearing has always
> interested linguists because it is ultra-religious, e.g.
> uses such technical words as Host, Ciborium etc. for
> non-religious words -- thus ideal "profanity.")
Tebernecl! Hé?
Mike.
Einde O'Callaghan
action as distinct from the substance. Nouns are teh only type of word
described as countable in english.
John Ings
<einde.oc...@planet-interkom.de> wrote:
>Nouns are teh only type of word
>described as countable in english.
That's a use of the term 'countable' I've not encountered before
Einde. Countable meaning 'having effect' or countable as in
numeration? Or some other meaning? Please elucidate.
John Dean
>
> Crap is not a swear word, it's what you find yourself in when you
> have lied to the electorate.
No no, you're thinking of the House of Lords
--
John 'reaping' Dean
Oxford
De-frag to reply
Don Aitken
wrote:
Actually, it was 25 years after; the Pygmalion premiere was 1914, GWTW
was 1939 (or 1940 - ICLIUBITL).
--
Don Aitken
Einde O'Callaghan
replying to had asked if "shit" was a countable *word* - I said that it
was a countable *noun* in certain meanings - that is, it has a plural
form (usually ending in "s" in English) and can be preceded by the
indefinite article in the singular. There are a few other grammatical
properties of countable nouns as distinct from uncountable nouns but I
wont go into them here. They are also sometimes referred to as "count
nouns".
We're in misc.education.language.english and people here ask questions
about grammar and usage. I assumed that as given.
Regards, Einde O'Callaghan
John Ings
And apparently this count noun business is taught as part of English
grammar to ESL students.
Yet somehow it got left out of my education :-(
I'd have looked it up in my Oxford Companion but that's still in one
of innumerable cardboard cartons because I've just relocated.
Thank you for the tutoring.
noc...@here.orthere
Subba Rao <sai...@attglobal.net> wrote:
They're mild swear words, but you would not use them in all social
contexts. For example, you wouldn't use these words in a job interview
unless, perhaps, if the interviewer was using them a lot.
The best thing when you are unsure of the correctness in a given
situation is to wait until you hear others use them.
Regards, Phil
Voetleuce
> Are the words "Damn" and "Hell" swear words?
They are expletives, yes. What can you use in place of them? Other
expletives. Or, you could try the Southpark solution -- replace them with
similar sounding words :-) Go to hail. ... Who gives a dime anyway. ... Hot
dame.
noc...@here.orthere
Sometimes on the east coast of the US you hear "I could give two
shits!" It's to make sure that the recipient understands that "I don't
care at all," only doubly so.
Regards, Phil
Voetleuce
"John Ings" <noda...@spam.org> wrote in message
news:hmgpjvkapcqvsnmvq...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 06:51:43 -0400, Subba Rao <sai...@attglobal.net>
> wrote:
> >I hear (and I have used sometimes) these 2 words a lot in spoken english
> >in the US. Are the words "Damn" and "Hell" swear words?
> In the past such usages were never heard in 'polite company'. That is
> to say, when ladies were present or in formal situations. There was a
> great furor when Rhett Butler in the movie "Gone With the Wind" told
> Scarlet "Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn!"
I recently used the use "damn" in a shop in the UK, and the people looked
shocked. The correct word to use is "darn", of course.
Voetleuce
"Peter Morris" <no...@m.please> wrote in message
news:bhiglj$lkj$1...@titan.btinternet.com...
> Yes, albeit very mild ones. A few decades ago they were considered
> shocking. The makers of 'Gone With The Wind' were fined for
> including the line 'Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn'.
Really? I heard they wanted to raise the age restriction, and they went to
tribunal about it because that line is in the book and the book had no age
restriction on it.
Voetleuce
Try Klingon: "Your mother has a smooth forehead!"
R F
Oh, I don't think they went to tribunal about any such thing.
Matti Lamprhey
>
> [...] The makers of 'Gone With The Wind' were fined for
> including the line 'Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn'.
I thought the line was approved on condition the stress went on the
"give" instead of the "damn"?
Matti
Matti Lamprhey
> "Subba Rao" <sai...@attglobal.net> wrote...
>
> > Are the words "Damn" and "Hell" swear words?
>
> They are expletives, yes. What can you use in place of them? Other
> expletives. Or, you could try the Southpark solution -- replace them
> with similar sounding words :-) Go to hail. ... Who gives a dime
> anyway. ... Hot dame.
This business of labelling curse words "expletives" is a recent
solecism. An expletive is simply a word of no importance.
I blame Milhouse.
Matti
Skitt
> Peter Morris wrote:
>>> Hot Damn.
>>>
>>> What would be the best substitute words for these words?
>>
>> Darn tootin'
>
> I disagree. "Hot damn" means 'wow!', but "darn tootin'" means 'you
> said
> it!'
Hot ziggity dog! I think you've got it.
--
Skitt (in SF Bay Area) http://www.geocities.com/opus731/
I speak English well -- I learn it from a book!
-- Manuel (Fawlty Towers)
Jerry Friedman
> On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 06:51:43 -0400, Subba Rao <sai...@attglobal.net>
> wrote:
>
> >I hear (and I have used sometimes) these 2 words a lot in spoken english
> >in the US. Are the words "Damn" and "Hell" swear words?
> >
> >Example sentences - Who the hell gives a damn?
> > Go to hell.
> > Who gives a damn anyway.
> > Hot Damn.
>
> In the past such usages were never heard in 'polite company'. That is
> to say, when ladies were present or in formal situations. There was a
> great furor when Rhett Butler in the movie "Gone With the Wind" told
> Scarlet "Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn!"
>
> That was in the 1930s and 40s. These days practically everybody uses
> such phrases. They have lost their sting so-to-speak.
I know people who avoid them. I have some tendency to avoid "hell"
and "damn", especially when I'm teaching, partly because of early
training and partly because they offend some people.
> >What would be the best substitute words for these words?
>
> 'Heck' used to be substituted for 'hell' and 'darn' used to be
> substituted for damn'.
Still are. I hear them now and then, including from young people, and
I've been known to say "What the heck" in various senses.
...
--
Jerry Friedman
Donna Richoux
The age-related ratings (G, PG, R, etc) were not even introduced until
1968. There certainly were censors before that, of course.
The "Trivia" section at the Intenet Movie Database says:
In 1939, the Hollywood Production Code dictated what
could and could not be shown or said on screen, and
Rhett Butler's memorable last line raised red flags.
A few of the suggested alternatives were "Frankly my
dear... I just don't care," "...it makes my gorge
rise," "...my indifference is boundless," "...I
don't give a hoot," and "...nothing could interest
me less." Fortunately, producer Selznick elected to
pay a $5,000 fine and keep the original, "Frankly my
dear, I don't give a damn."
--
Best -- Donna Richoux
John Varela
wrote:
> "Subba Rao" <sai...@attglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:vjpejin...@corp.supernews.com...
>
> > I hear (and I have used sometimes) these 2 words a lot in spoken english
> > in the US. Are the words "Damn" and "Hell" swear words?
>
> They are classic swear words because religious
> in origin, i.e. invoking what used to be the society's
> primary values.
I was taught that "damn" is blasphemous; since only God can damn someone, you
are usurping God's role when you damn someone or something.
I expect that seriously religious people would be offended by the use of
either Damn or Hell. And I certainly wouldn't use either word when standing
behind a lectern.
--
John Varela
Raymond S. Wise
news:1fzr6n2.y1ix05mnhqeaN%tr...@euronet.nl...
When the film was dubbed into French, the line became "Franchement, ma
chčre, c'est le dernier de mes soucis": literally, "Frankly, my dear, that's
the least of my worries." I saw it in the theater in France in 1974 and
presume that the dubbed version was made many years previously.
--
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com
R F
On Fri, 15 Aug 2003, Donna Richoux wrote:
> R F <rfon...@mail.wesleyan.edu> wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 15 Aug 2003, Voetleuce wrote:
> >
> > > "Peter Morris" <no...@m.please> wrote in message
> > > news:bhiglj$lkj$1...@titan.btinternet.com...
> > >
> > > > Yes, albeit very mild ones. A few decades ago they were considered
> > > > shocking. The makers of 'Gone With The Wind' were fined for
> > > > including the line 'Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn'.
> > >
> > > Really? I heard they wanted to raise the age restriction, and they went to
> > > tribunal about it because that line is in the book and the book had no age
> > > restriction on it.
> >
> > Oh, I don't think they went to tribunal about any such thing.
>
> The age-related ratings (G, PG, R, etc) were not even introduced until
> 1968. There certainly were censors before that, of course.
>
> The "Trivia" section at the Intenet Movie Database says:
>
> In 1939, the Hollywood Production Code dictated what
> could and could not be shown or said on screen, and
> Rhett Butler's memorable last line raised red flags.
> A few of the suggested alternatives were "Frankly my
> dear... I just don't care," "...it makes my gorge
> rise," "...my indifference is boundless," "...I
> don't give a hoot," and "...nothing could interest
> me less."
I wonder if anyone suggested "anything could interest me less".
Or that phrase, so familiar now because of its extensive use on _The West
Wing_: "I could give a damn".
Irwell
Probably thinking of the film with Wendy Hiller and
Leslie Howard. The stage version was in 1914?
Tempus fugit!
Irwell
>On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 14:17:13 UTC, "Don Phillipson" <dphil...@trytel.com>
>wrote:
>
>> "Subba Rao" <sai...@attglobal.net> wrote in message
>> news:vjpejin...@corp.supernews.com...
>>
>> > I hear (and I have used sometimes) these 2 words a lot in spoken english
>> > in the US. Are the words "Damn" and "Hell" swear words?
>>
>> They are classic swear words because religious
>> in origin, i.e. invoking what used to be the society's
>> primary values.
>
>I was taught that "damn" is blasphemous; since only God can damn someone, you
>are usurping God's role when you damn someone or something.
No. You can take a test and pay a small fee for the certficate.
John Dean
Well, there was the golden opportunity missed to make 'I could care less'
immortal.
--
John Dean
Oxford
De-frag to reply
John Dean
> R F <rfon...@mail.wesleyan.edu> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 15 Aug 2003, Voetleuce wrote:
>>
>>> "Peter Morris" <no...@m.please> wrote in message
>>> news:bhiglj$lkj$1...@titan.btinternet.com...
>>>
>>>> Yes, albeit very mild ones. A few decades ago they were considered
>>>> shocking. The makers of 'Gone With The Wind' were fined for
>>>> including the line 'Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn'.
>>>
>>> Really? I heard they wanted to raise the age restriction, and they
>>> went to tribunal about it because that line is in the book and the
>>> book had no age restriction on it.
>>
>> Oh, I don't think they went to tribunal about any such thing.
>
> The age-related ratings (G, PG, R, etc) were not even introduced until
> 1968. There certainly were censors before that, of course.
>
In the UK The British Board of Film Censors (BBFC) was founded in 1912 as a
trade body to forestall official censorship (I wonder if the editors of the
British tabloids subscribe to this group). The classifications - U and A
were guidelines only. Then the H cert was introduced in 1932 for Horror
films and under 16s were barred. H became X in 1951.
John Dean
You need to expel the 'e' from Milhouse.
Simon R. Hughes
> Simon R. Hughes wrote:
> >
> > Crap is not a swear word, it's what you find yourself in when you
> > have lied to the electorate.
>
> No no, you're thinking of the House of Lords
I wouldn't mind if they stuck there; anywhere, in fact, where he
can't do any more harm.
--
Simon R. Hughes <!-- Kill "Kenny" for email. -->
<!-- 67 deg. 17' N; 14 deg. 23' E -->
John Lawler
>Simon R. Hughes writes:
>> Thus spake Subba Rao:
>>>I hear (and I have used sometimes) these 2 words a lot in spoken english
No. They're not used in swearing oaths; they're mildly tabooed but almost
everybody ignores it. You may use them in any company where you hear them
used by naive speakers. For more details, see
http://www.umich.edu/~jlawler/aue/thehell.html
>>>Example sentences - Who the hell gives a damn?
>>> Go to hell.
>>> Who gives a damn anyway.
>>> Hot Damn.
>>>What would be the best substitute words for these words?
>>>Thank you for any information.
"Heck" and "darn", respectively, are the usual euphemisms, but
they sound awfully retro these days.
>>
>> "Who the fuck gives a shit?"
>Is "shit" a countable word?
No. In its literal meaning it's a mass noun.
But it appears in several idiomatic phrases with an indefinite article:
o take a shit = defecate
This is a unit, and refers to the act, not the output:
*The shit that he took weighed 3.2 kg.
The shit that he took stunk up the place.
o give a shit = care (about s.t.)
This is also a unit and doesn't passivize at all:
*The shit that he gives about that is insignificant.
"Give a shit", as well as "give a damn" (with the same sense), are
negative polarity items, although in recent years they've absorbed enough
negative force themselves to appear without a negative trigger, usually
with "could" instead of "couldn't", leading to several hundred sighting
reports annually in a.u.e.
For more about negative polarity, see
http://www.umich.edu/~jlawler/aue/npi.html
-John Lawler www.umich.edu/~jlawler Univ of Michigan Linguistics Dept
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I conceive that words are like money, not the worse for being common,
but that it is the stamp of custom alone that gives them circulation
or value." -- William Hazlitt 'On Familiar Style' (1821)
Steve Hayes
>Is "shit" a countable word?
Yes, for certain values of "shit".
If "shit" means what medicos call "a bowel movement", then you can count them
and give your doctor the number next time you see them.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Wes Groleau
> I'm referring to the grammatical use of the term - the person I was
> replying to had asked if "shit" was a countable *word* - I said that it
Since he/she was asking about profanity,
I suspect the intended phrase was
"does the word s--- count?"
(in other words, "is s--- also profanity?")
Wes Groleau
A newsgroup that generally gets one to three posts
a day gets over fifty when someone asks a question
about swear words. :-)
Says something about what we consider fascinating.
:-)
Raymond S. Wise
news:bhjbr4$7das$2...@ID-103223.news.uni-berlin.de...
It's a euphemism, not a solecism, and it's not recent:
From *The Century Dictionary* of 1895, at
www.century-dictionary.com
[quote]
expletive [...]
II. _n._ [...]
3. Hence, by euphemism, an oath ; an exclama-
tory imprecation : as, his conversation was gar-
nished with _expletives._
He who till then had not known how to speak unless he
put an oath before and another behind to make his words
have authority, discovered that he could speak better
and more pleasantly without such _expletives_ than he had
ever done before. _Southey,_ Bunyan, p. 16.
[end quote]
"_Southey,_ Bunyan" refers to the 1830 work "A Life of John Bunyan" by
Robert Southey.
Einde O'Callaghan
query about the use of the indefinite article.
If you trace the thread back you'll see that the query from "Tamakazura"
was:
> Is "shit" a countable word?
I've been discussing grammar questions with this poster for the last few
days.
Regards, Einde O'Callaghan
Don Aitken
But it says a lot more about what happens when you crosspost to a
group that gets several hundred a day.
--
Don Aitken
Subba Rao
>>
>>Example sentences - Who the hell gives a damn?
>> Go to hell.
>> Who gives a damn anyway.
>> Hot Damn.
>
>
> to say, when ladies were present or in formal situations. There was a
> great furor when Rhett Butler in the movie "Gone With the Wind" told
> Scarlet "Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn!"
>
> That was in the 1930s and 40s. These days practically everybody uses
> such phrases. They have lost their sting so-to-speak.
>
>
>
>
> substituted for damn'.
>
>
>
>
> Yes, but it too is much less offensive to modern ears than it once
> was.
>
>
Thanks to everyone to the healthy pointers/information about the use of
these words!!
Truely, like "I don't give a damn." from "Gone with the Wind", there
are several words I picked up from the media (mainly movies) which I
thought were American slang. I am embarrased about that ignorance now!
These words were used by blockbuster stars like,
Arnold Schwatzenegar (sp) - "What the hell do you want?"
Bruce Willis - "Asshole"
Eddie Murpher - "F*** you"
Male/Female stars - "Son of bitch"
and the list goes on.
Use of swear words, now I know is not a measure of intelligence or
civility. I have even lost respect for these celebrities and their
movies now!
Now that I see the light on swear words, how different is slang from
swear words? Is the quantity of slang (not swear words) used in a
speech a measure of his/her intelligence? Is it civil to use slang
words in a conversation?
Thank you all once again!
Subba Rao
s u p e r o <AT> a t t g l o b a l <DOT> n e t
Einde O'Callaghan
<snip>
>
> Truely, like "I don't give a damn." from "Gone with the Wind", there
> are several words I picked up from the media (mainly movies) which I
> thought were American slang. I am embarrased about that ignorance now!
> These words were used by blockbuster stars like,
>
> Arnold Schwatzenegar (sp) - "What the hell do you want?"
> Bruce Willis - "Asshole"
> Eddie Murpher - "F*** you"
> Male/Female stars - "Son of bitch"
>
> and the list goes on.
>
> Use of swear words, now I know is not a measure of intelligence or
> civility. I have even lost respect for these celebrities and their
> movies now!
>
star is playing teh role of somebody who swears tghen the star will
swear in teh movie. It's a question of acting and may or may not reflect
what the movie star is like in real life.
> Now that I see the light on swear words, how different is slang from
> swear words? Is the quantity of slang (not swear words) used in a
> speech a measure of his/her intelligence? Is it civil to use slang
> words in a conversation?
>
Non-native spaekers of English (or any language) should be very careful
about using slang, because by using slang (a code often associated with
a particular group) you are claiming to be a member of this group, but
lacking the background information you may use the language inappropriately.
This isn't just a problem for non-native speakers. There's nothing more
inappropriate than an older person trying to use youth slang. It never
works - they always sound sllightly ridiculous.
Use of slang says nothing at all about the intelligence of the person
using it. Slang should be distinguished from idiomatic language - idioms
are widely used images that often mean something slightly (or even very)
different from teh literal meaning. In order to master a foreign
language it is necessary to master the idiomatic use of the language.
Regards, Einde O'Callaghan
Tamakazura
> Arnold Schwatzenegar (sp) - "What the hell do you want?"
> Bruce Willis - "Asshole"
> Eddie Murpher - "F*** you"
I don't comment on the spelling of those celebrities' names.
> Male/Female stars - "Son of bitch"
^
It's got to be "a" bitch.
Wes Groleau
> On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 23:30:02 -0500, Wes Groleau
> <gro...@freeshell.org> wrote:
>>Says something about what we consider fascinating.
>
> But it says a lot more about what happens when you crosspost to a
> group that gets several hundred a day.
oops, I didn't notice that! :-)
Skitt
> Teh movie stars are acting roles. And some people do swear - so if a
> star is playing teh role of somebody who swears tghen the star will
> swear in teh movie.
Fabian, is that you?
Einde O'Callaghan
> Einde O'Callaghan wrote:
>
>
>>Teh movie stars are acting roles. And some people do swear - so if a
>>star is playing teh role of somebody who swears tghen the star will
>>swear in teh movie.
>
>
> Fabian, is that you?
No - just me typing too fast. Also not exactly the best formulated
sentence I've ever written. ;-)
Regards, Einde O'Callaghan
Maria Conlon
> Einde O'Callaghan wrote:
>
>> Teh movie stars are acting roles. And some people do swear - so if a
>> star is playing teh role of somebody who swears tghen the star will
>> swear in teh movie.
>
> Fabian, is that you?
Darn it [1], Skitt, I was going to ask that question, but you already
had. (And now I'm wondering where Fabian is these days.)
[1] OBthread.
Maria Conlon
Larry G
> On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 12:59:18 GMT, Tamakazura <cind...@attb.com> wrote:
>
> >Is "shit" a countable word?
>
> Yes, for certain values of "shit".
>
> If "shit" means what medicos call "a bowel movement", then you can count
them
> and give your doctor the number next time you see them.
I see that this thread has descended into the toilet.
Larry
Maria Conlon
> "Steve Hayes" wrote
>>
>>> Is "shit" a countable word?
>>
>> Yes, for certain values of "shit".
>>
>> If "shit" means what medicos call "a bowel movement", then you can
>> count them and give your doctor the number next time you see them.
>
> I see that this thread has descended into the toilet.
Yes. And have we now started calling a doctor (singular) "them"?
Maria Conlon
I saw my doctor yesterday. They is retiring soon.
Skitt
> Larry G wrote:
>> "Steve Hayes" wrote
>>> Tamakazura wrote:
>>>> Is "shit" a countable word?
>>>
>>> Yes, for certain values of "shit".
>>>
>>> If "shit" means what medicos call "a bowel movement", then you can
>>> count them and give your doctor the number next time you see them.
>>
>> I see that this thread has descended into the toilet.
>
> Yes. And have we now started calling a doctor (singular) "them"?
That is one of those things we don't talk about -- one of those things where
the language does not work to everyone's satisfaction at all.
Maybe the "them" refers to the bowel movements. That way the "them" fits
perfectly. Yeah, that must be it.
Steve Hayes
wrote:
>Larry G wrote:
>> "Steve Hayes" wrote
>>> Tamakazura wrote:
>>>
>>>> Is "shit" a countable word?
>>>
>>> Yes, for certain values of "shit".
>>>
>>> If "shit" means what medicos call "a bowel movement", then you can
>>> count them and give your doctor the number next time you see them.
>>
>> I see that this thread has descended into the toilet.
>
>Yes. And have we now started calling a doctor (singular) "them"?
Yes. It's called non-sexist language.
Peter Moylan
If you see a thread, that too should be reported to the doctor.
--
Peter Moylan Peter....@newcastle.edu.au
http://eepjm.newcastle.edu.au (OS/2 and eCS information and software)
John Varela
wrote:
> Larry G wrote:
> > "Steve Hayes" wrote
> >> Tamakazura wrote:
> >>
> >>> Is "shit" a countable word?
> >>
> >> Yes, for certain values of "shit".
> >>
> >> If "shit" means what medicos call "a bowel movement", then you can
> >> count them and give your doctor the number next time you see them.
> >
> > I see that this thread has descended into the toilet.
>
> Yes. And have we now started calling a doctor (singular) "them"?
What that statement says is that you should save them and the next time you
see them you should tell your doctor their number. NTTAWWT.
--
John Varela
Evan Kirshenbaum
> Simon R. Hughes wrote:
> > "Who the fuck gives a shit?"
>
> Is "shit" a countable word?
In this expression. But you don't need to count very high. Googling:
"give a shit" 101,000 30,400 ("gives") 6,050 ("gave")
"give two shits" 5,590 433 260
"give three shits" 89 7 7
"give four shits" 3 1
"give five shits" 2
"give six shits" 2
"give ten shits" 9
"give twelve shits" 1
"give a dozen shits" 3
"give several shits" 1
It's also countable in the more literal "take a shit".
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |The Society for the Preservation of
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |Tithesis commends your ebriated and
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |scrutable use of delible and
|defatigable, which are gainly, sipid
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com |and couth. We are gruntled and
(650)857-7572 |consolate that you have the ertia and
|eptitude to choose such putably
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ |pensible tithesis, which we parage.
Evan Kirshenbaum
> Subba Rao wrote:
>
> > Male/Female stars - "Son of bitch"
>
> It's got to be "a" bitch.
Except in _Stripes_.
http://tomsquotes.amhosting.net/movies/stripes/immigrant.wav
http://www.jahozafat.com/cgi-bin/wavs.cgi?Stripes=english.wav
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |It is error alone which needs the
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |support of government. Truth can
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |stand by itself.
| Thomas Jefferson
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572
Tamakazura
> Tamakazura <cind...@attb.com> writes:
>
>
>>Simon R. Hughes wrote:
>>
>>>"Who the fuck gives a shit?"
>>
>>Is "shit" a countable word?
>
>
> In this expression. But you don't need to count very high. Googling:
>
> "give a shit" 101,000 30,400 ("gives") 6,050 ("gave")
> "give two shits" 5,590 433 260
> "give three shits" 89 7 7
> "give four shits" 3 1
> "give five shits" 2
> "give six shits" 2
> "give ten shits" 9
> "give twelve shits" 1
> "give a dozen shits" 3
> "give several shits" 1
>
> It's also countable in the more literal "take a shit".
Yeah, that's very important. However, "To take shit" is wrong?
Tamakazura
> Tamakazura <cind...@attb.com> writes:
>
>
>>Subba Rao wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Male/Female stars - "Son of bitch"
>>
>>It's got to be "a" bitch.
>
>
> Except in _Stripes_.
>
> http://tomsquotes.amhosting.net/movies/stripes/immigrant.wav
> http://www.jahozafat.com/cgi-bin/wavs.cgi?Stripes=english.wav
>
Articles (a, an, the) are difficult things.
Simon R. Hughes
No one should have to take shit. (It's idiomatic.)
Evan Kirshenbaum
> Evan Kirshenbaum wrote:
> > It's also countable in the more literal "take a shit".
>
> Yeah, that's very important. However, "To take shit" is wrong?
"To take a shit" means to literally defecate. "To take shit" means to
put up with abuse directed at oneself.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |Yesterday I washed a single sock.
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |When I opened the door, the machine
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |was empty.
| Peter Moylan
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572
Einde O'Callaghan
Regards, Einde O'Callaghan
Maria Conlon
> Maria Conlon wrote:
>> Larry G wrote:
>>> "Steve Hayes" wrote
>>>>
>>>> count them and give your doctor the number next time you see them.
>>>
>>> I see that this thread has descended into the toilet.
>>
>> Yes. And have we now started calling a doctor (singular) "them"?
>
> Yes. It's called non-sexist language.
Ah. That's okay, then.
Maria Conlon
Maria Conlon
> Maria Conlon wrote:
>> Larry G wrote:
>>> "Steve Hayes" wrote
>>>>
>>>> count them and give your doctor the number next time you see them.
>>>
>>> I see that this thread has descended into the toilet.
>>
>> Yes. And have we now started calling a doctor (singular) "them"?
>
> What that statement says is that you should save them and the next
> time you see them you should tell your doctor their number. NTTAWWT.
I misread it, then? But Steve didn't seem to think so.
Even so, I rather like your explanation, John. It makes sense, whereas
the "singular them" is tough to take, non-sexist though it is.
Maria Conlon
Charles Riggs
wrote:
It has a different meaning. "To take shit" from someone means to
accept abuse from that person. "I'm not going to take your shit" is a
popular American expression.
--
Charles Riggs
For email, take the air out of aircom
and replace with eir
Tamakazura
> It has a different meaning. "To take shit" from someone means to
> accept abuse from that person. "I'm not going to take your shit" is a
> popular American expression.
>
That's very informative and important.
sage
Irwell <tay243...@softhome.net> wrote in message
news:3f3d5060...@news.CIS.DFN.DE...
> On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 18:35:55 +0100, Don Aitken <don-a...@freeuk.com>
wrote:
>
> >On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 15:32:14 GMT, tay243...@softhome.net (Irwell)
> >wrote:
> >
> >>On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 11:37:25 +0000 (UTC), "Peter Morris" <no...@m.please>
wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>"Subba Rao" <sai...@attglobal.net> wrote in message
> >>>news:vjpejin...@corp.supernews.com...
> >>>> Hi,
> >>>>
> >>>> I hear (and I have used sometimes) these 2 words a lot in spoken
english
> >>>> in the US. Are the words "Damn" and "Hell" swear words?
> >>>
> >>>shocking. The makers of 'Gone With The Wind' were fined for
> >>>including the line 'Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn'.
> >>>
> >>This was about the same time that 'not bloody likely'
> >>spoken by Eliza Doolittle in George Bernard Shaw's
> >>'Pygmalion' caused another sensation.
> >
> >Actually, it was 25 years after; the Pygmalion premiere was 1914, GWTW
> >was 1939 (or 1940 - ICLIUBITL).
> Probably thinking of the film with Wendy Hiller and
> Leslie Howard. The stage version was in 1914?
> Tempus fugit!
You mean you actually *saw* the stage version as well? :)
Cheers, Sage
John Varela
Variants:
I don't have to take that shit.
I'm not taking any more of that shit.
Don't give me that shit.
etc.
--
John Varela
Michael West
"Tamakazura" <cind...@attb.com> wrote in message
news:tPc0b.183914$YN5.135909@sccrnsc01...
Yes, it is wrong to take shit from someone, but sometimes
it's too much trouble to do anything about it.
--
Michael West
Melbourne, Australia
(Expat yank)
Charles Riggs
There is some shit I won't take.
Don't give me anymore of your shit.
Variations on the theme:
That is shit.
You're talking shit.
You're full of shit.
Take your shit and shove it.
Isn't English wonderful?
Tamakazura
> There is some shit I won't take.
> Don't give me anymore of your shit.
>
> Variations on the theme:
> That is shit.
> You're talking shit.
> You're full of shit.
> Take your shit and shove it.
>
> Isn't English wonderful?
Furthermore, shit and crap are interchangeable, aren't they?
MC
Tamakazura <cind...@attb.com> wrote:
I don't think so. In certain circles shit is perceived as offensive and
crap is an acceptable, inoffensive alternative. Thus, crap is a
euphemism for shit rather than a synonym.
Mike Lyle
Yes, but it didn't start out that way: I'm still barely reconciled to
the use of "crap" in public and by broadcasters. When *did* the change
take place?
I have a feeling that it was about the same time as "shag" became a
euphemism for "fuck" instead of the very vulgar expression it was for
me. I can still hardly use "shag" at all, even in private.
Mike.
Charles Riggs
wrote:
I suppose, but I'll leave it to others to swap them about.
Subba Rao
> MC <copeS...@ca.inter.net> wrote in message news:<copeSPAMZAP-591D...@mail.inter.net>...
>
>>
>>crap is an acceptable, inoffensive alternative. Thus, crap is a
>>euphemism for shit rather than a synonym.
>
>
> Yes, but it didn't start out that way: I'm still barely reconciled to
> the use of "crap" in public and by broadcasters. When *did* the change
> take place?
>
> I have a feeling that it was about the same time as "shag" became a
> euphemism for "fuck" instead of the very vulgar expression it was for
> me. I can still hardly use "shag" at all, even in private.
>
I have used this word (crap) thinking it was an acceptable slang word.
When I used the word "piss" ("pissed off") then people raised their
eyebrows. If a word is a euphemism for a profane word, then isn't it
better to avoid it? Are euphemisms required?
I thought "shag" meant "mastrubate". Has this word evolved to mean "fuck"?
Subba Rao
Charles Riggs
wrote:
>Mike Lyle wrote:
>> MC <copeS...@ca.inter.net> wrote in message news:<copeSPAMZAP-591D...@mail.inter.net>...
>> I have a feeling that it was about the same time as "shag" became a
>> euphemism for "fuck" instead of the very vulgar expression it was for
>> me.
?
>I thought "shag" meant "mastrubate". Has this word evolved to mean "fuck"?
It hasn't evolved since 1788. It meant fuck then, it means fuck now.
As far as I know, it never meant masturbate.
Mike Lyle
Wow! No, "shag" has always meant "fuck". "Piss" means "urine", and is
regarded as coarse. On the whole, I suggest you shouldn't use "crap",
except perhaps to people who use it first.
Mike.
Lars Eighner
<3fa4d950.03082...@posting.google.com>,
the lovely and talented Mike Lyle
broadcast on alt.usage.english:
> Wow! No, "shag" has always meant "fuck". "Piss" means "urine", and is
> regarded as coarse. On the whole, I suggest you shouldn't use "crap",
> except perhaps to people who use it first.
When I was very young, I used the word "crud" until I met someone who
was very sure it meant "dried semen." We have been through the
dialect differences many times, e.g. "fanny" in the US is a very,
very mild word for buttocks. In London I had a very visceral reaction
every time I heard an Englishman say "fag," although intellectually I
knew it meant "cigarette" and I never suspected anyone of thinking
anything else when he said it.
It is easy enough to go wrong without even trying and very foolish to
try to use colorful expressions without a thorough understanding of
the expectations of one's audience and a fluency in their dialect.
--
Lars Eighner -finger for geek code- eig...@io.com http://www.io.com/~eighner/
"A wonderful thing about a book, in contrast to a computer screen, is
that you can take it to bed with you." --Daniel J. Boorstein
Raymond S. Wise
[...]
Euphemisms are used originally because they are considered more acceptable
than the term they replace. The appropriateness of a euphemism cannot be
decided based upon the term it is replacing. Sometimes euphemisms become as
unacceptable as the term they replace, and sometimes the connection to the
term they replace is known only to people interested in etymology. And
sometimes you have euphemisms which show a divergence in sense: "bathroom"
and "restroom" are both American euphemisms for "toilet"--which itself was a
euphemism--but an adult is less likely to refer to a public toilet as a
bathroom than a child is--except when talking to a child, that is. You ask
whether a euphemism is required: Well, when the subject is sexual relations
or the elimination of bodily wastes, all the frank old one-syllable
words--also known as the "four-letter words"-- have been replaced by what
might be considered euphemisms.
--
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com
Subba Rao
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>I hear (and I have used sometimes) these 2 words a lot in spoken english
>>in the US. Are the words "Damn" and "Hell" swear words?
>
>
> Yes, albeit very mild ones. A few decades ago they were considered
> shocking. The makers of 'Gone With The Wind' were fined for
> including the line 'Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn'.
>
>
>
>>Example sentences - Who the hell gives a damn?
>> Go to hell.
>> Who gives a damn anyway.
>> Hot Damn.
>>
>>What would be the best substitute words for these words?
>>Thank you for any information.
>
>
> Who the heck gives a darn
> Go fly a kite.
> Who gives a darn anyway.
> Darn tootin'
>
>
>>PS - Is "crap" a swear word as well? "What is this crap?" or "What
>>they are giving you is crap."
>
>
> Yes, a bit stronger.
>
Thank you very much for these substitute words and lines to express my
frustration. There are 2 more words that I have heard a lot and
sometimes on the tip of my tongue. The words are "bitch" and "asshole".
Some of my friends (women) when they talk about another woman they say
"Oh she is such a bitch." "She is so bitchy".
The same is true for the usage with "asshole". "That customer manager
is such an asshole. He made us do blah blah blah..."
Having this kind of exposure with my collegues, these words are
sometimes at the tip of my tongue.
What words or expressions would be appopriate to express the frustration
without using these offensive words?
Thank you once again.
Subba Rao
s u p e r o <AT> a t t g l o b a l <DOT> n e t
Maria Conlon
>
> Thank you very much for these substitute words and lines to express my
> frustration. There are 2 more words that I have heard a lot and
> sometimes on the tip of my tongue. The words are "bitch" and
> "asshole". Some of my friends (women) when they talk about another
> woman they say "Oh she is such a bitch." "She is so bitchy".
>
> The same is true for the usage with "asshole". "That customer manager
> is such an asshole. He made us do blah blah blah..."
>
> Having this kind of exposure with my collegues, these words are
> sometimes at the tip of my tongue.
>
> What words or expressions would be appopriate to express the
> frustration without using these offensive words?
A friend of mine (a woman) uses "brat" ("bratty") where others would say
"bitch" ("bitchy"). It may not be the best substitute, but it sounds
better than "bitch" and doesn't offend those who are listening. There's
also "shrew" ("shrewish") -- "an ill-tempered scolding woman" per M-W
online.
For "asshole," I generally use "jerk." The two words mean much the same
thing according to the dictionary, but both lack the "detestable" aspect
that I mentally include when I refer to someone with either word. (So if
I call anyone here a "jerk," you all will now know I mean worse than I
say.)
Maria Conlon
Charles Riggs
<mcon...@sprynet.com> wrote:
>For "asshole," I generally use "jerk." The two words mean much the same
>thing according to the dictionary,
Depends on the dictionary, and I'd say you need summat better. Dat,
hooney chil, odays ahways guhdol A-ou-E. Rey, of course, is a
recognised expert on the use of words such as these, but he hasn't
chimed in yet, so the OED may have to do.
It has, in part:
"4. Special Combinations. asshole. Someone or something foolish or
contemptible; an uncompromising term of abuse."
and, for jerk:
"5. slang (orig. U.S.). Someone of little or no account; a fool, a
stupid person."
Calling someone an asshole, then, is much stronger abuse than merely
calling him a jerk.
>but both lack the "detestable" aspect
>that I mentally include when I refer to someone with either word. (So if
>I call anyone here a "jerk," you all will now know I mean worse than I
>say.)
And we'll assume you'll reserve "asshole" for the *really* bad ones.
Maria Conlon
> Maria Conlon wrote:
>
>> For "asshole," I generally use "jerk." The two words mean much the
>> same thing according to the dictionary,
>
> Depends on the dictionary, and I'd say you need summat better. Dat,
> hooney chil, odays ahways guhdol A-ou-E.
"....something/somewhat better....That, honey child, or there's always
good old aue." (Is that all there is? Should I have found that
difficult?)
>.....Rey, of course, is a
> recognised expert on the use of words such as these, but he hasn't
> chimed in yet, so the OED may have to do.
>
> It has, in part:
>
> "4. Special Combinations. asshole. Someone or something foolish or
> contemptible; an uncompromising term of abuse."
>
> and, for jerk:
>
> "5. slang (orig. U.S.). Someone of little or no account; a fool, a
> stupid person."
>
> Calling someone an asshole, then, is much stronger abuse than merely
> calling him a jerk.
As you said, it depends on the dictionary. I was using M-W online, and,
yes, I did find the definitions rather limited:
>
>> but both lack the "detestable" aspect
>> that I mentally include when I refer to someone with either word.
>> (So if I call anyone here a "jerk," you all will now know I mean
>> worse than I say.)
>
> And we'll assume you'll reserve "asshole" for the *really* bad ones.
Well, yes, especially for the really rude drivers. If they could hear me
yelling at them, they would be very embarrassed. (And so might I.)
I may have told you this story before: I pulled into a busy gas station
once and was almost to the pump when a guy in a Corvette had the gall to
drive around me and take the place I was heading for. I stopped, jumped
out of my vehicle, and started towards him, intending to really tell him
off. Some very unladylike words were on the tip of my tongue. He
apparently didn't see me coming but I saw him get out of his vette. He
had a gun on each hip. I am not kidding. He also had on a police
uniform, which I had failed to notice before. Well.
The rest of the story doesn't live up to the promise of the beginning. I
will tell you, though, that I didn't get shot and didn't get arrested.
And I didn't call him a jerk, a boor, a pig (!), a selfish bastard,
and/or an asshole. He probably deserved all of that and more, but I kept
my mouth shut and left.
I'd like to think I'll always be that smart.
Maria Conlon
Mike Lyle
[...]
> I'd like to think I'll always be that smart.
I hope so, Maria.
Mike.