How Can I: Determine No Shows? (And more)

[Steven]

I would like to create an application that will:

Scan event RSVPs, find people with one (or more) no-shows in the last
M months and change those people to a NO or WAITLIST status for the
event.

However it's not clear if - or where "No SHOW" status is kept or can
be calculated. It does not appear to be in the RSVP or in the PROFILE
for the user... and even if it were in the profile, that wouldn't
quite cut it for this situation since we don't want to penalize no-
shows forever. It will also be helpful for us to check the membership
status for each person (i.e. have they paid dues or not in the last M
months).

Automating this will be lovely since right now it's darn painful to do
with our group of 1400 members. By the way the "no show" tool I am
working on would also update the member title.

On the flip side, I *did* find something we lost in the last changes:
The waiting list disappears after an event, but the /2/RSVPs api
exposes that data after the event (Yeah!). When we repeat an event
that was oversubscribed (and nearly all of our events are), we'd like
to first notify people who missed the last one before notifying the
general public. On that front:

Q: Is there an API into the "Create custom mail list" feature so that
we can create lists of e.g. "No Shows", "Perfect Attendance", etc
without having to do this manually?

[Joseph Lippeatt]

+1 for easy-access to no-show info. Thanks for bringing this subject up Steven

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[Steven]

By the way, I marked myself as a "no show" for a past event that I
previously marked myself as a "NO" for and it shows up like this,
note that the status is
"response no".

{

"response": "no",
"member": {
"name": "Steven Christenson",
"member_id": 6516298
},
"member_photo": {
.. removed ..
},
"event": {
"id": "29949191",
"time": 1317514500000,
"event_url": "http://www.meetup.com/NightPhotography/events/
29949191/",
"name": "Yosemite Night Photography (1night)"
},
"mtime": 1316191428000,
"answers": [
""
],
"guests": 0,
"rsvp_id": 194719842,
"venue": {
... removed ...
},
"group": {
"id": 1491227,
"group_lat": 37.40999984741211,
"group_lon": -121.86000061035156,
"join_mode": "open",
"urlname": "NightPhotography"
}

},

Nothing is gleaned from the RSVPid either. So in short, it looks like
the "No Show" status is not exposed in the data. Correct? This might
also explain why the "Update RSVP" box doesn't have a Filter by "No
Show" option.

Plan B for the "auto eject" feature is to use information in the
member title. (It's also part of PLAN A for another feature I'm
working on: a Lottery for attendance).

[Joseph Lippeatt]

Something very similar to /2/rsvp could be used, such as /2/rsvp_attendance

However, either event_id OR member_id would be required to allow getting all attendance info for a single event, or a single person (/2/rsvp only works with one event).

The response would be basically identical, but include "no-show" as one of the response values.

Also, event_name and event_time should be added to the event info that is returned.

Next, the member return would need to be a collection, as many no-show members may result from a single call. Etc.

[Steven]

Another quirk with the /2/rsvp api is that the filtering options are
"yes" and "no" even though the response value of "waitlist" can be
returned.
I've discovered that what "rsvp=no" really means is "rsvp=~yes" and
includes "waitlist".

With 1400 members, we can have a lot of "no" responses for an event.

[Doug Tangren]

On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 2:53 AM, Konyobo Vog-enga eric <vkon...@rocketmail.com> wrote:

I would like to unsubscribe from meetup.

Thank you.

 

Vog-Enga E. Konyobo
Tel:+233-(0)248 227272
       +233-(0)268 029917

Vog-Enga,

If you would like to unsubscribe to the Meetup API mailing list.  You should be able to do so here, http://groups.google.com/group/meetup-api/subscribe

If you would like to unsubscribe from email your receive from Meetup http://www.meetup.com/account/comm/.

Please don't post non-API related questions on the API list. If you have a non-API related, question. Please search here, http://www.meetup.com/help/

Thanks.

[Doug Tangren]

You are correct in that organizer assigned attendance status not currently exposed through the API. This could be something we could add as an optional field in the 2/rsvp api response. Please note that we'd have to restrict is visibility of this property to organizers of the group as normal members can not see this status on the site.

If you are seeing an issue where waitlisted users are showing a status of no, let us know. They should be returned with a "waitlist" status unless they explicitly rsvp "no" to remove themselves from the waitlist.

Thanks.
 

[Steven]

> You are correct in that organizer assigned attendance status not currently
> exposed through the API. This could be something we could add as an
> optional field in the 2/rsvp api response. Please note that we'd have to
> restrict is visibility of this property to organizers of the group as
> normal members can not see this status on the site.

The "restriction" thing isn't really any different for other things,
for example using the 2/profiles API to return membership-dues
information.

If we can ask, I'd also like a way to SET and CLEAR the no-show status
from an API. And if I had my "druthers" I'd prefer to be able to use
the "status" field to filter only "no show" data for all events in the
group... but I don't think it can work quite that way.

Also, while it is not an API issue, it would be nice if the RSVP tool
showed No Show data near the name AND had a filter on "No Show" so
that we can move people OUT of accidental no show status.

[Doug Tangren]

On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 10:13 PM, Steven <steventh...@gmail.com> wrote:

> You are correct in that organizer assigned attendance status not currently
> exposed through the API. This could be something we could add as an
> optional field in the 2/rsvp api response. Please note that we'd have to
> restrict is visibility of this property to organizers of the group as
> normal members can not see this status on the site.

The "restriction" thing isn't really any different for other things,
for example using the 2/profiles API to return membership-dues
information.

If we can ask, I'd also like a way to SET and CLEAR the no-show status
from an API.  And if I had my "druthers" I'd prefer to be able to use
the "status" field to filter only "no show" data for all events in the
group... but I don't think it can work quite that way.

We can add this to the queue for organizer API users

On a related note, have you seen http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/meetroster/id428046176?mt=8 ?

[Joe Lippeatt]

I got to thinking, can this API allow users to see their own no shows?   So if the member=self, useful data would return even if the person isn't an organizer.  

Would be much easier to point people to a URL in our web site rather than having to reply manually to 50 "I never no show, prove it!" emails.  :)

Thanks,

Joe

Sent from my iPhone

--

[Steven]

Members can see their attendance history from their profile (links at the very bottom).

You (generic you) shouldn't be able to see the attendance history for our "No Host" person.  http://www.meetup.com/NightPhotography/members/10471288

However when I log in as that pseudonym I do see history... including no shows that were assigned by the admin(s).

We have been taking a different approach. Unfortunately it is extremely painful to drill down into that no-show informaton, so we are giving "no show" members custom titles with "@" in the name to indicate a no show.

And I have built a customer API tool to inspect our past and future events for "scoundrels".

[Steven]

Here is a partial shot of what I've been building...

This is not the entire list, of course, but it shows me several things:  1> someone with a prior no show is a current "Yes" RSVP and he's bringing a guest. 4 people on the wait list have prior no shows.  9 people on the wait list are dues paying members of the group.

The wait list is randomly ordered so we can fairly pick those to move to "Yes" status.

[jo...@lippeatt.com]

Doug,

So I have been using meetroster for a few events now and the lack of "saving" the data is a little frustrating.  If you close the app, all the attendance info is lost.

To get around this, I just started checking people in and then when I got home, marked anyone who was not "checked in" as a no-show.  That worked great -- until some savvy smart people realized what I was doing and started checking themselves in from afar.  LOL

Joe

[Nathan Hamblen]

On 03/06/2012 01:03 PM, jo...@lippeatt.com wrote:
> To get around this, I just started checking people in and then when I
> got home, marked anyone who was not "checked in" as a no-show. That
> worked great -- until some savvy smart people realized what I was
> doing and started checking themselves in from afar. LOL

Wow. Seems like just attending the meetup would be easier than all that
subterfuge!

We record who's making the checkins, although it's not shown on the
site. If you query the /2/checkins method directly you could only record
those checkins that have you as the "checker".

Nathan

[jo...@lippeatt.com]

Ah, there's an idea.  Do we know who built the meetroster app and if 'saving' data could be added to the app?  Or a way to mark no shows?

Thanks

[PorpoisefulApps]

Hi Joey!

Chris here. I built the meetroster app and the data is not saved as the app was originally meant to be just a quick attendance app (see who you are waiting for to arrive).

However, I plan to add retaining of attendance for meetups in the next iteration.  For "no shows" I can add an option within the app to mark those who did not attend (still "missing"), as "no shows" and perhaps provide the option to send a message to these members.  I will need to review the API to see what options are available for messaging.

If you have any other suggestions please send.  I would be happy to add any features that I am able to.

I hope to get this update out soon.  Thank you for downloading the app!

Chris

On Tuesday, March 6, 2012 5:05:31 PM UTC-6, jo...@lippeatt.com wrote:

On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 3:19 PM, Nathan Hamblen <nathanh> wrote:

On 03/06/2012 01:03 PM, joey wrote:

To get around this, I just started checking people in and then when I got home, marked anyone who was not "checked in" as a no-show.  That worked great -- until some savvy smart people realized what I was doing and started checking themselves in from afar.  LOL

Wow. Seems like just attending the meetup would be easier than all that subterfuge!

We record who's making the checkins, although it's not shown on the site. If you query the /2/checkins method directly you could only record those checkins that have you as the "checker".

Nathan

[PorpoisefulApps]

I may need to limit history to perhaps only the previous few days
worth of data. Storing large amounts of data will consume both
storage space and RAM. Some meetup events can get very big (200+
attendees). Storing this level of data long-term may not be conducive
for the device. Cloud storage is an option. However, cloud storage
is not free.

I can add an option for "no shows" as a stated above however.

On Mar 7, 11:13 am, PorpoisefulApps <ch...@augmentedprime.com> wrote:
> Hi Joey!
>
> Chris here. I built the meetroster app and the data is not saved as the app
> was originally meant to be just a quick attendance app (see who you are
> waiting for to arrive).
>
> However, I plan to add retaining of attendance for meetups in the next
> iteration.  For "no shows" I can add an option within the app to mark those
> who did not attend (still "missing"), as "no shows" and perhaps provide the
> option to send a message to these members.  I will need to review the API
> to see what options are available for messaging.
>
> If you have any other suggestions please send.  I would be happy to add any
> features that I am able to.
>
> I hope to get this update out soon.  Thank you for downloading the app!
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, March 6, 2012 5:05:31 PM UTC-6, jo...@lippeatt.com wrote:
>

> > On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 3:19 PM, Nathan Hamblen <nathanh<nath...@meetup.com>
> > > wrote:

[Joe Lippeatt]

I suspect the only thing to maintain is meetup event ID, member ID and 1/0 for here/not here.

Maybe if there was a way for it to generate a text report of members and noshow status and then have a button to send that to myself via email? That way it doesn't have to be saved for long.

Thanks,

Joe

Sent from my iPhone

[Steven]

This application does not set the "No Show" status of an attendee, correct? There is no API to do that at present or am I missing something?

[PorpoisefulApps]

I don't see a method in the API to set the "no show" status. In the
MeetRoster if the organizer is done taking attendance then the
remaining attendees are "no shows" within the app only.

[Steven]

Impatient me is wondering if there has been any traction on exposing No Show RSVP status via the API.  Sooner or later our members are going to realize that they are emblazoned with the scarlet letter (funky characters in their titles) which we're using as a workaround to track no shows.

Meanwhile I'd be curious if anyone has suggestions for other features that make sense for the "Event List Randomizer"  (see help here)

[Joe Lippeatt]

On Tuesday, March 27, 2012 1:10:48 PM UTC-5, Steven wrote:

Impatient me is wondering if there has been any traction on exposing No Show RSVP status via the API.  Sooner or later our members are going to realize that they are emblazoned with the scarlet letter (funky characters in their titles) which we're using as a workaround to track no shows.

Wanted to round-trip this again, did the "No Show" status become available via API?  Alternatively, can we mark someone as "No Show" for a specific event via API?

Thanks

[Doug Tangren]

There is still an open ticket for this, but we haven't gotten to it yet. We will post to the list when its implemented.

 

[Sam]

+1 for having No Shows status via the API.

[Steven]

It's been another 6 months since the last status on this. Any good news?  Will the sun rise and help us drive out all the flakes from our group?

(Fingers crossed).

The main pages also need a way to email "no shows" as one of the choices after an event.  If we could get this feature in the API at least we'd have a way to contact people.

In my case, I have people who paid to attend an event last night but didn't show up.  I'd like a one click method to tell them they were missed and to contact me if there was a reason they didn't show - but I need an easy way to extract the no-show data.

[Doug Tangren]

On Mar 1, 2013 12:23 PM, "Steven" <steventh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> It's been another 6 months since the last status on this. Any good news?  Will the sun rise and help us drive out all the flakes from our group?
>
> (Fingers crossed).
>
> The main pages also need a way to email "no shows" as one of the choices after an event.  If we could get this feature in the API at least we'd have a way to contact people.
>

You can get a list of noshows for a given event with the attendance api. You can use the absent filter.

We have a ticket in to specifically target noshows to cut down on the number of results returned. Absent also returns those that didnt rsvp.

> In my case, I have people who paid to attend an event last night but didn't show up.  I'd like a one click method to tell them they were missed and to contact me if there was a reason they didn't show - but I need an easy way to extract the no-show data.
>

The attendance list is based on members saying they didnt attend or where the org marks them as such. You needs sounds like they depend on members responding to the post event followup email.

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[Steven]

I just noticed the news that attendance was turned back on.  Thanks.

 

You can get a list of noshows for a given event with the attendance api. You can use the absent filter.

We have had 167 events and have 1842 members.  When determining whom to boot from an event, the current logic is to query all the titles of all of the RSVP'd people. Titles are cached so that when inspecting another event it doesn't refetch the titles.

 

We have a ticket in to specifically target noshows to cut down on the number of results returned. Absent also returns those that didnt rsvp.

That would be crucial. With a 20 person event and 1842 members there will be a lot of useless data.  Multiply that by 6 events for a month and a 6 month history, we'd be trying to look at 36 x 1842 (or so) items returned.

I really would like to do one fetch wherein I specify: the user ids, the group id, a list of events (or better a time span e.g. -6 months) and get all of the no-shows for that set of users and those events - and nothing else. 

 

> In my case, I have people who paid to attend an event last night but didn't show up.  I'd like a one click method to tell them they were missed and to contact me if there was a reason they didn't show - but I need an easy way to extract the no-show data.
>

The attendance list is based on members saying they didn't attend or where the org marks them as such. You needs sounds like they depend on members responding to the post event followup email.

I don't trust members, our hosts will update the no show status, so we can rely on that.  I *believe* hosts can use the attendance UI, right?

Also, I think it's mentioned elsewhere in this group, but there is no documentation for the "desc", "only" or "omit" options shown in the console test tool.  ( http://www.meetup.com/meetup_api/console/?path=/:urlname/events/:id/attendance ) 

I'll carry on the discussion in the other thread.  But it looks like attendance is not going to help as it is.

[mike castleman]

On 03/01/2013 11:00 PM, Steven wrote:
> Also, I think it's mentioned elsewhere in this group, but there is no
> documentation for the "desc", "only" or "omit" options shown in the
> console test tool. (
> http://www.meetup.com/meetup_api/console/?path=/:urlname/events/:id/attendance
> )

hi Steven,

The "only" and "omit" parameters allow you to customize the fields which
will be returned in the results (to save bandwidth or parsing time) and
are documented at http://www.meetup.com/meetup_api/ under the "Result
Fields and Filters" heading. The "desc" parameter reverses the sort
order and is documented on the same page under "Making a request".

cheers,
mlc

--
mike castleman
android developer, meetup
mailto:m...@meetup.com

[Steven]

The "only" and "omit" parameters allow you to customize the fields which
will be returned in the results (to save bandwidth or parsing time) and
are documented at http://www.meetup.com/meetup_api/ under the "Result
Fields and Filters" heading. The "desc" parameter reverses the sort
order and is documented on the same page under "Making a request".

Thanks, I figured that out, but it would be easy to add it to the documentation page (http://www.meetup.com/meetup_api/docs/:urlname/events/:id/attendance/#list).  Heck, they could even be lazy and say: for information about "desc", "omit", "only" click here and provide a link.

However the API just doesn't work.

In our 1844 member group, I see that "André N. Zandoná" is marked as a "No Show" in the UI.  However he is only marked absent in the returned data.

Moreover, the "Name" parameter which stupidly wants a name, and doesn't allow a userid doesn't work despite the documentation.  For example:

http://api.meetup.com/nightphotography/events/93510502/attendance?page=200&sig_id=6516298&filter=absent&member=Zandon&_=1362256170708&only=status%252Cmember.id%252Cmember.name&sig=31bc0695496748fc550a0451824b7728c9b30c32 

Should theoretically return all absent people (of which André N. Zandoná is included) who also have a member name with "Zandon" in it.

Here is a piece of what is returned:

{

• "status": "absent",
• "member": {
  • "id": 56676862,
  • "name": "André N. Zandoná"
  }

},

Unfortunately his "noshow" (or is it No Show or NoShow?) status is not indicated.

It returns 200 responses including 

• {
  • "status": "absent",
  • "member": {
    • "id": 23410831,
    • "name": "AJ"
    }
  },
• {
  • "status": "absent",
  • "member": {
    • "id": 42562192,
    • "name": "AJ Valdez"
    }
  },

Which clearly do not have "Zandon" in them. Setting the page to "1" returns only "AJ".

I think I'd normally not care who was "absent" unless they had RSVP'd Yes. And ideally, I'd like to find who changed their RSVPs at the last minute - people who "suddenly" find themselves unable to attend mark themselves no. Under our group we will penalize all people who change their RSVP to a no with less than one or two days notice (or more depending on the event).

[Doug Tangren]

On Mar 2, 2013 4:36 PM, "Steven" <steventh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> The "only" and "omit" parameters allow you to customize the fields which
>> will be returned in the results (to save bandwidth or parsing time) and
>> are documented at http://www.meetup.com/meetup_api/ under the "Result
>> Fields and Filters" heading. The "desc" parameter reverses the sort
>> order and is documented on the same page under "Making a request".
>
>
> Thanks, I figured that out, but it would be easy to add it to the documentation page (http://www.meetup.com/meetup_api/docs/:urlname/events/:id/attendance/#list).  

We document general and common parameters in a common location. We assume you read the general documentation before reading a specific method's documentation. There is a lot you can miss if you don't read common documentaion first including authentication among other things. We encourage you to read those first.

Heck, they could even be lazy and say: for information about "desc", "omit", "only" click here and provide a link.

1) disrespective language is not an effective way for you to get additional features added to the api and its documetation.

2) we do not copy the same docmentation, especially common documentation, in many different locations to keep documentation consistent across the board.

>
> However the API just doesn't work.

Colored text also will not effectivley attract a more considerate response.

>
> In our 1844 member group, I see that "André N. Zandoná" is marked as a "No Show" in the UI.  However he is only marked absent in the returned data.
>

I will investigate this on monday.

>
> Moreover, the "Name" parameter which stupidly wants a name, and doesn't allow a userid doesn't work despite the documentation.  

I assume you mean the member parameter. If you revisit the documentation for this method you will see that it explicitly states it expects a member name and doesnt not apply when he absent filter is used. You will notice this is consistent with the attendance tool on the site. Your example below disregards this documentation.

Again agressive language is not going to get you new features faster. It can often work against you.

For example:
>
> http://api.meetup.com/nightphotography/events/93510502/attendance?page=200&sig_id=6516298&filter=absent&member=Zandon&_=1362256170708&only=status%252Cmember.id%252Cmember.name&sig=31bc0695496748fc550a0451824b7728c9b30c32 
>
> Should theoretically return all absent people (of which André N. Zandoná is included) who also have a member name with "Zandon" in it.
>
> Here is a piece of what is returned:
>
> {
> "status": "absent",
> "member": {
> "id": 56676862,
> "name": "André N. Zandoná"
> }
> },
>
> Unfortunately his "noshow" (or is it No Show or NoShow?) status is not indicated.

Ill investigate this monday.

>
> It returns 200 responses including 
> {
> "status": "absent",
> "member": {
> "id": 23410831,
> "name": "AJ"
> }
> },
> {
> "status": "absent",
> "member": {
> "id": 42562192,
> "name": "AJ Valdez"
> }
> },
> Which clearly do not have "Zandon" in them. Setting the page to "1" returns only "AJ".
>
> I think I'd normally not care who was "absent" unless they had RSVP'd Yes. And ideally, I'd like to find who changed their RSVPs at the last minute - people who "suddenly" find themselves unable to attend mark themselves no. Under our group we will penalize all people who change their RSVP to a no with less than one or two days notice (or more depending on the event).

You will currently only find features in the attendance api that map directly to those found in the attendance tool on the site. New features are planned but we are working on many things which can affect the timing of those new features. Aggressive feedback based on misinterpretation of published documentaion will be lowered in priority.

[Doug Tangren]

On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 8:57 PM, Steven <steventh...@gmail.com> wrote:

Doug,

I'm sorry if my frustration rankled you. This topic is over a year old.  The Attendance API was rolled out, turned off and is still not functional in that it appears it is not possible to get the data that is listed on the UI [see below for an update].  For my 1840 member group the code must do (10) 200-item queries per event for about 20 events to get to the data of interest (about 200 queries).  Actually, it's worse than that, since we also need to fetch the RSVP data which is the only way we can tell when the RSVP was last modified.

New features that go beyond what the attendance tool on the site are planned.

 

In my opinion the API set is under documented, and the Attendance portion at least as much so. For example, it's only by searching these discussions that one learns that the only way to get "noshow" status is to request "absent" data.

I will open a ticket to make that more clear. We do document the statuses that may be associated with attendance records on the site here

http://www.meetup.com/meetup_api/docs/:urlname/events/:id/attendance/#listresponse

 And I believe there is some other implicit assumption which hasn't been stated.

This API is based on the attendance tool. The only way to see no-shows with the attendance tool is to click the tab labeled absent. http://i.imgur.com/17AcW7W.jpg The API is consistent with this.

 

However, you are correct that I missed reading content that was added about 6 pages down on the "Overview" page.  It's not a place I'd be looking all the time since I read that Overview more than a few dozen times over the last two years.

We do post an announcement to the list when these new features are added. Here is the post on parameter filtering

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!searchin/meetup-api/ANNOUNCING$20only/meetup-api/vsxAsZ692BY/zVxyiSI4yRkJ

 

 Moreover,, the "Search Box" on that page doesn't search the documentation, it searches for meetups.  Perhaps if the documentation were searchable online or available as a single, downloadable searchable PDF you could legitimately complain that I didn't look.

This could be potentially doable. We used to have all API documentation on one page but it became more and more unwieldy as new methods were added. You mention about that scrolling down on the Overview page is not be something you like to do. One page with all documentation would not remedy this.

 

When I said "be lazy" I did NOT mean to imply you or the staff are lazy. It was a poor choice of words on my part. I meant that it would be useful to point back at additional parameters exactly for the reason you give - duplicating documentation would be wasteful and difficult to maintain. I am asking/suggesting/hoping that where appropriate a link be provided back to page six of  http://www.meetup.com/meetup_api/docs (i.e. this link: http://www.meetup.com/meetup_api/docs/#results)

As for the member name search... yep, that was definitely my bad for missing the subtlety that it only worked with "all" for the RSVP type. I was trying to dig down into the single incorrect record that I had found and create a query that would return just the incorrect data for illustration - it's not how I'd normally consume that API.

 

And I'm not sure what what has changed, if anything, but today the "noshow" status IS being returned for this.

[ removed reference to api key ]

 

• "data": [
  • {
    • "status": "noshow",
    • "member": {

• • • "name": "André N. Zandoná",

• • • • "id": 56676862
      }
    }
  ]

Do you have any explanation for why the noshow data is now being returned correctly?

I looked into these this morning. Your original request was for event 93510502. The member in question had no rsvp. In that case they were marked absent  in the attendance for the event. Your second example was for event 100024642. In this case, they had rsvp'd yes but were marked a no show (most likely in the attendance tool UI). This is why their attendance status shows up as a noshow.

This is their full attendance record for that event.

{

• "status": "noshow",
• "member": {

• • "id": 56676862,
  • "name": "André N. Zandoná",

• • "photo": {
    • "thumb": "http://photos3.meetupstatic.com/photos/member/d/7/3/e/thumb_65215102.jpeg"
    }
  },
• "rsvp": {
  • "response": "yes",
  • "guests": 0
  }

}

[Steven]

 And I believe there is some other implicit assumption which hasn't been stated.

This API is based on the attendance tool. The only way to see no-shows with the attendance tool is to click the tab labeled absent. http://i.imgur.com/17AcW7W.jpg The API is consistent with this.

 

Yes, that makes sense, however, I suspect the difference was due to one of our hosts or organizers having clicked the "use attendance list count" (I think that's what it's called).  When I looked at the data and saw "absent" for all returned data about a half dozen people were shown as "No Show" in the UI. However the total attendance was listed at 55. When I ran it again last evening, the total number listed was 39 - and I did get the "noshow" records when I searched by name with "all", and when I grabbed 200 at a time with "absent".

I have no explanation for the difference.

[Doug Tangren]

Those with access to the attendance tool may set an headcount for the event ( the box in the top left in your screenshot ) which differs from the actual count. That could contribute a the difference in total attendance. It's a site feature I'd personally like to do away with but have no control over. The API list is not a place to discuss or request changes on that.

[jo...@lippeatt.com]

Hello,

On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 9:15 AM, Doug Tangren <do...@meetup.com> wrote:

On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 8:57 PM, Steven <steventh...@gmail.com> wrote:

Doug,

I'm sorry if my frustration rankled you.

[ deleted for brevity ]

 

 And I believe there is some other implicit assumption which hasn't been stated.

This API is based on the attendance tool. The only way to see no-shows with the attendance tool is to click the tab labeled absent. http://i.imgur.com/17AcW7W.jpg The API is consistent with this.

And that's the problem.  

A lot of us are running our groups a little against the grain with Meetup's great environment of "lets get together and have a great time and play it loosey goosy and save some for the next guy before passing it around, Kumbaya."

In my photog group, my target market are people that want to step out of their car knowing everything has been arranged for them.  No headaches, no uncomfortable surprises, etc.  So do things like pay venues in advance to make sure everything goes smooth when we first get there.  

So No-Shows not only comes out of my budget -- it leaves someone on the waiting list.

I totally get that meetup doesn't want folks to walk away from the site feeling harshed (for getting kicked out of some group for never showing up, for example).  But allowing difficult members to cause frustration for the participating, supportive members of Meetup.com, is even worse.  And when an organizer sees no relief to this issue -- well do a search in your DB for how many photography group organizers bailed out of their group suddenly.  

We are not looking for site-parity with the attendance tool; we are trying to write code that supports an important need that the site may not be specifically interested in supporting.  

I know this is conjecture, its based on asking for this support for an extremely long time.  But we've watched as other new features with lower priority, and nice-to-have bug fixes take precedence over a significant Meetup.com membership issue.

Several months ago I posted a google search for people complaining about "no-shows" in their meetup groups, and how to solve the issue.  We need a solution that meets the original request for Attendance management -- either on the site, or via API.

Joe

[Steven]

Those with access to the attendance tool may set an headcount for the event ( the box in the top left in your screenshot ) which differs from the actual count. That could contribute a the difference in total attendance. It's a site feature I'd personally like to do away with but have no control over. The API list is not a place to discuss or request changes on that.

 

Sorry  for not being clear again, Doug. What I am trying to determine is what steps are required to make the Attendance API report someone as a no-show?   I don't like the UI, but you said that the API could "only show what the UI does".

I can try some more experiments, but I'm assuming some developer knows what the UI changes and some other developer will then know how that does or doesn't affect the API.

I would love to spend some time with someone who cares about the UI the way you guys do about the API ... but I know that's not the scope of this group.  

@Joe: Where did you post that google search?  Like you I've been busy trying to manage two photography groups.  One mostly volunteer, and the other a pay-per-event model.  I do know that you can Google to find what groups people are members of even when they don't disclose their membership.

[jo...@lippeatt.com]

Hi Stephen,

Oh, that was so long ago, couldn't say where exactly it is now.  I tried to search for it on the meetup api site but didn't find it.  I just did a simple google search like "meetup noshow problems" or something similar. The number of organizers trying to manage this one issue is astounding.  Trying to use everything from member titles, three-strikes-rule, reducing event fees for folks who don't no-show, using "pages" for keeping up with no-shows ... it goes on and on.

For guys like us who actually suffer a cost (or a hit to our reputation with a restaurant or venue) when there are significant no-shows, this is a big issue.  If that means rolling my own code, that's no problem, I'll do it -- but need the API to provide the info/ability to update the info in a smart way.

Trying to manage it one-person-at-a-time isn't going to work for most of us in larger groups.

Joe

--

[Doug Tangren]

On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 10:00 PM, jo...@lippeatt.com <jo...@lippeatt.com> wrote:

Hi Stephen,

Oh, that was so long ago, couldn't say where exactly it is now.  I tried to search for it on the meetup api site but didn't find it.  I just did a simple google search like "meetup noshow problems" or something similar. The number of organizers trying to manage this one issue is astounding.  Trying to use everything from member titles, three-strikes-rule, reducing event fees for folks who don't no-show, using "pages" for keeping up with no-shows ... it goes on and on.

For guys like us who actually suffer a cost (or a hit to our reputation with a restaurant or venue) when there are significant no-shows, this is a big issue.  If that means rolling my own code, that's no problem, I'll do it -- but need the API to provide the info/ability to update the info in a smart way.

Trying to manage it one-person-at-a-time isn't going to work for most of us in larger groups.

Thank you all for your continued interest in this. I am aware of the issue and limitations of the current API for attendance. I have made plans to improve this and make it easier for you to managing your Meetups. Please try to also note that there is an exponential difference in number of developer resources allocated to working on the site compared to those working on the API here at Meetup. I am doing my best to serve all your requests in addition to bugs and other improvements to the API that help me build out these features faster. There are no requests or bugs that on this list that go undocumented in our ticket tracking system.

That said, I am happy to hear about specific use cases like these are are pain points rather than nice-to-haves in the API. That definitely bumps them up in priority, but there are a lot of things that need worked on. I'm trying to get to them all as quickly as I can.

[Steven]

Doug, 

My apologies.  It looks like between my two tests for NoShow I used DIFFERENT event IDs by accident. You correctly pointed that out - thank you.  Egg on my face.

By the way I've gone back through my Lottery tool and added "only" and "omit" to a number of queries. Dramatically less web traffic now.  This was good work on your part.

One problem we just had with this weekend's event is that 90 people signed up for a 30-person event (50 were on the waitlist at its peak). People were clamoring for space and making plans as if they had YES RSVPs... well today the totals are 30 Yes, 0 on the waitlist.    About half of that was drop-out from Yes and churn from those who came after.  I say all this as background because what I'd really like to do with this is figure out how many people changed from Yes to No and at what time they did so (and "admonish" those who bailed at the last minute).  I see the time of last change is in the RSVP data as "created" time and there is an "mtime" of the last modification.  I don't think I can tell from any data after the fact whether the RSVP ever made it to "Yes" state can I?   That is, I don't want to penalize anyone who merely said no at the outset, or who cancelled themselves out of the waitlist.

I believe my only option is to consume the rsvps stream to determine if they ever had a yes. Is that correct?  That may not be a problem unless they RSVP'd Yes long ago.