[HI-CAP][Maui Makers] A remote control project

[RogerI...@aol.com]

I had this idea a long time ago and would really like to pursue it, if only I could find some others with experience in this and willing to try making it a reality.

 

You can rent small backhoes and similar construction/yard equipment, but since they mostly use  lever-actuated hydraulics they're quite difficult to use. (I used to drive a bulldozer on my family's farm in New jersey as a kid). The leaning curve is pretty high, and when you're paying big bucks to rent these things you don't want to be spending most of your time figuring out how to use them.

 

 

 

There are also toy versions of backhoes and other such equipment.

 

 

So, here's my idea: You configure the toy with a set of digital encoders so that an associated microprocessor (arduino, propeller?) can know the precise position of every part of it. You put similar encoders on the actual backhoe and attach electrically operated controllers to the various lever controls on the backhoe. You write suitable transformation software that translates the toy's position information into actuator control signals.

 

You then grab hold of the bucket part of the toy backhoe and move it. The ACTUAL backhoe then makes corresponding movements. So, you don't sit on the backhoe, trying to figure out what levers to move to accomplish whatever you're trying to do, you just move the toy's bucket and the real backhoe follows suit. Easy as pie. You probably don't even need force feedback on the toy, since you're watching what happens on the real backhoe. And, you can even be at a safe distance so you're out of any danger when operating it.

 

This should work for these small rental equipment versions as well as full size equipment.

 

I could see putting together a demo project and then approaching an actual equipment manufacturer, offering to form a partnership to provide the control mechanisms for their existing equipment. Surely the first company to make this available would have a huge market advantage over the competition.

 

- Roger Garrett

 

[Reichart]

I designed this over a decade ago:

http://www.allgame.com/game.php?id=20515&tab=screen

It was in fact a complete Cat simulator, with all their major vehicles.

the digging for example used real volumetric 3d calculations, and accounted for every bit of dirt.

You need a little more than you described, for example you need a force feedback sensor on all parts to insure stress and torque don't cause a failure.  You will also need to detect the "balance" of the machine.  All these things are subsets though of general automation.

I too have no idea why this has not been done yet.  Add cameras in strategic places and this gets even more precise, and more controllable.

- Reichart

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Reichart...

[Jerry Isdale]

http://singularityhub.com/2012/02/19/canadian-man-excavates-his-basement-using-rc-trucks-over-7-years/

 Since June of 2005, farmer Joe Murray has been excavating a basement in his home in Saskatchewan Canada using only radio controlled vehicles.

Jerry Isdale

isd...@gmail.com

[cole santos]

Skip the dozer designs. Build a giant hydraulic hand and use a glove. Add another set on the other side. Put on some DARPA legs and wala. You could pick up things like buckets and hammers with the hands. Add two gatling cannons, alot of kevlar, and two shoulder mounted packs of metal storm.

[RogerI...@aol.com]

Pretty cool. But if you look closely he's still using a typical remote control system with joysticks, which makes  it not much different from using the various levers on the actual machine.  

[Brian Thomas]

Roger, great idea.  Reichart, cool game and your points are the crux of the issue.  Having grown up on John Deere front end loaders and backhoes and using various excavators etc.  it came easy but there was a learning curve.  The feedback that Reichart mentions is key and that is conveyed through hydraulic valves bodies.  If you could indicate resistance, as the hydraulics do, to the operator (along with noise sometimes) so as not to break stuff then that would be of value especially to the rental market.  Skid steered bobcats are another thing that would be improved upon but excavators (especially with thumb), back hoes and front end loaders would be the big beneficiaries.

[RogerI...@aol.com]

Thank you, Brian, for the comments.

 

I don't think that it would be too difficult to provide that feedback to the operator. On the actual equipment (backhoe, etc.) you've got output trying to places parts in specific positions plus input (feedback) indicating the actual resultant positions. That feedback goes back to the controller (the "toy" version of the equipment) which has motors to provide the force feedback. It might take a bunch or prototyping and trial-and-error, plus an expert or two on feedback systems, but I don't see it as an insurmountable problem.

 

I don't see the need for noise as an extra feedback mechanism, since the operator would be near enough to see and hear the actual equipment.

 

- Roger

 

 

[Reichart]

" I don't see the need for noise as an extra feedback mechanism, since the operator would be near enough to see and hear the actual equipment."

Again, I'll agree that everything is doable, and should have been started 30 years ago.  

My whole teams flew out to Caterpillar in Peoria when we did our work.  Our models were "exact.".

Even though this is a "game", it has a full physics model, collision, and calculates for torque on each part of the system.

Things like "noise" are really helpful to make a HUMAN do the right thing.  There are many subtle ques used to ensure the operator is safe, the vehicle is safe, and the environment is safe.

In exchange for displacing the HUMAN (remotely) the danger to the other two go up.   Force feedback for example can help you "feel" a pipe, a boulder, or rock so solid your vehicle is about to break.

It might be possible to use haptic systems, but a measured force to you that reflects the system is better.

I'll bet the guy with the RC trucks had a lot of "spills" and "tumbles" he did not record, which in real like would have been millions of dollars of failure, and he would have in fact been banned from driving ever again LOL

- Reichart