Off-Topic Chat Thread (Jan-June 2013)

[Derek McGovern]

Please use this thread for any non-Lanza-related comments, general chit-chat, etc. (Of course, if you have a non-Lanza-related topic that you feel warrants its own thread, then feel free to start one.)  

[Derek McGovern]

There's been quite a fuss recently in the media over the just-released film version of the musical Les Miserables. Singer Adam Lambert started the hoo-ha by complaining on Twitter that much of the singing in the film (which, unusually for a musical, is performed live to camera) was below-par. The stars may be great actors, he wrote, but singers most of them are not :) He went on to lament that too often in Hollywood musicals, the quality of the singing is low on producers' priorities. Couldn't agree more!

Has anyone here seen this film version of Les Mis? Apart from Lambert's comments, all I've read about it is this scathing (and amusing) review in the New Yorker:

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/culture/2013/01/theres-still-hope-for-people-who-love-les-miserables.html

Cheers

Derek

[Derek McGovern]

The first Lanza great-grandchild! (Hardly "off-topic," Pam :)) Thanks for letting us know, and it's good to hear that the Lanza name is being perpetuated.

Cheers
Derek

[Steff]

 

Congratulations to Nick Lanza-Bregman and his Rachel and their families for the arrival of baby Weston.

 

Steff 

[George Laszlo]

Derek,

I'd like to suggest a new topic if it has not already been done. If it has, we can just continue that conversation.

So, here it is: If you had to choose someone today, who would be the person to play Mario in a movie about him or a remake of a film that he has was in?

To get this rolling, I'm going to nominate Seth MacFarlane. Here is my evidence:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4D0DYYFKT5c

Some of you may be amazed by this or tell me that I'm nuts. BUT, to qualify for being Mario, you have to have several [roughly] matching characteristics: a great voice, charm, physical resemblance, character, and talent. And should I mention, a colorful and fully lived life.

For those of you who do not know Seth MacFarlane, I would encourage that you read about him on Wikipedia. And, you will get to see him pretty soon since he will be hosting the Oscars.

Seriously, George

[Derek McGovern]

Hi George: Yes, we do have an existing thread on this topic---or one that's close enough :) I'll copy your post in a moment to that thread so that people can respond there. 

Just a reminder that this thread is meant to be for topics unrelated to Lanza :) 

Cheers

Derek

[Derek McGovern]

I'm briefly in New Zealand visiting my parents, and this evening we saw the Dustin Hoffmann-directed Quartet (2012), which Lee Ann first mentioned in a delightful post last year:

 

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/mariolanza/MAMmHsWC294/XfaTOysFDTMJ

 

Well, I'm happy to say that I enjoyed it very much---as did my parents, who could often relate to its sometimes-elegiac theme of the frustrations of ageing. Although the film is set in an improbably well-maintained and manicured rest home for aged musicians, and it's a little unrealistic in other respects as well, its exaggerations and occasional cliches are justified, I feel, for a movie about four opera singers---and their still-smouldering passion for performing. The cast, which includes many of the finest actors in British theatre and film, is excellent, and I thought Dustin Hoffmann did a fine job in his first directorial effort. A lovely, heart-warming (and occasionally bawdy) adaptation of screenwriter Ronald Harwood's own play, which itself was obviously inspired by the early 80s documentary Tosca's Kiss (filmed in Verdi's home for aged musicians).   

 

It's had a mixed critical reception, with another film based on a similar theme---A Late Quartet (renamed The Master, at least in New Zealand, presumably to avoid confusion)---receiving far greater praise. I haven't seen A Late Quartet/The Master yet, but hopefully people who have will post their opinion of it on this absurdly quiet forum! And of course I'd love to know what everyone thinks of Quartet as well.

 

Cheers

Derek

 

P.S. Lee Ann's post in the link above includes its own link to a very well-written New York Times article on both films.  

[Barnabas Nemeth]

Hi Derek,

 

You were writing: " Honestly, I can't see the point in making a film or TV series about a great singer if the person providing the subject's voice is nowhere near as good as the original! ". Well, this is the main and reasonable point!

 

Barnabas

2013/2/5 Derek McGovern <derek.m...@gmail.com>

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[Derek McGovern]

Just a correction to my post below: it turns out that The Master and A Late Quartet are in fact two different movies, both starring the extraordinarily versatile Phillip Seymour Hoffman. Sorry for misleading everyone!

 

And speaking of movies, albeit non-musical ones, I was blown away by Lincoln, which I finally saw on the plane (of all places) while returning to Korea two days ago. It's been said that Daniel Day Lewis "inhabits" Lincoln in this film, and I completely agree. There was never a moment when I felt I was watching an acting performance. The man is a genius. And he's backed up by some superb supporting performances. Excellent screenplay by Tony Kushner, and a memorable piece of directing from Steven Spielberg.

 

Anyone else share my enthusiasm for this film?

 

Cheers

Derek

[Barnabas Nemeth]

If you haven't seen it just take a look at 52:50

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A66Adiz0pY

 

Barnabas

2013/2/14 Derek McGovern <derek.m...@gmail.com>

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[leeann]

Hi, Derek, I've been curious about how Lincoln would play outside of the States--about how interesting the history would or wouldn't be, or how universally the themes might or might not resonate from a film that's essentially a political story. (Although it's also discussed in business schools, as well, in discussions about Lincoln's management skills, for example.)

It's a funny thing how historians respond to history in movies .( And maybe there are some corollaries with The Great Caruso, even though that film strayed pretty far into the world of fiction! :-)). Actually, academic historians can get a bit nit-picky. A bit obnoxious, feisty and academic about exaggerations and inventions that (also as an historian) I'd argue--for what it's worth--often make films more appealing to audiences than bare-bones, dry history might. And so, such films make those of us who don't know a lot about their topic, more likely to look further into the realities of the history the films are narrating.

But by and large, the historical criticism of this Spielberg production has been primarily for  the omission of African-American voices. Otherwise,  historians are actually rather more than usually on board with the history part, even if they want to argue with dramatic presentation and emphasis or critique the film itself. Present-day Congressmen from the state of Connecticut, though,  are somewhat annoyed and in conversations with Steven Spielberg because their state voted 100 percent in favor of our Thirteenth Amendment to the Constitution abolishing slavery,  and the film says they did not!

I just thought the film was brilliant. The script. The acting. The timing. The cinematographic point of view. The incredibly accurate scenery and historic props.

Musically,  it's interesting that long-time composer/conductor John Williams did the film score. (My favorite of his is still Star Wars!) Some critics have categorized his work with Lincoln as predictable and formulaic. Mostly, it seemed to me, it supported the movie; it wasn't supposed to dominate or even serve as a dramatic foil, and it didn't. It blended with the movie as a whole--at least that's what I thought on first look. But I think this is a movie that requires more than one viewing. Best, Lee Ann

[leeann]

Dear Barnabas, what a great surprise!  Thank you so much for this link--and how wonderful that BBC4 and Villazon  and Domingo focused on Lanza's operatic works, even as they had to talk about "Be my Love" to demonstrate how  great tenor voices crossed into popular culture. Interesting that the Caruso segment just before the Lanza focus expressed the point of view that in Caruso's time,  "Most tenor arias were closer to what we'd call popular music today."   I haven't watched all of this yet, but I look forward to it.    Lee Ann

[Derek McGovern]

Hi Lee Ann: Many thanks for your thoughts on Lincoln. Historians may not be 100% happy with it, but as you say, if the film succeeds in encouraging people to delve more deeply into the period, then that can only be a good thing. And historians should be delighted! I know the film immediately got me wanting to learn more about Lincoln, the American Civil War, and of course the abolition of slavery.

As for present-day congressmen from Connecticut being annoyed that the film misrepresents how their state voted on the abolition of slavery, some New Zealanders are equally galled that another well-received historical movie currently doing the rounds---Ben Affleck's Argo---misrepresents our country's stance during the 1979 Iran Hostage Crisis!! I haven't seen Argo yet, but apparently it depicts the New Zealand Embassy in Tehran refusing to help six US diplomats who were trying to flee Iran. As Affleck's film has it, only the kind Canadian Embassy would help the diplomats (though Affleck has since acknowledged that he knows this was untrue). In fact, as NZ journalist Karl Du Fresne has recently written, the New Zealand Ambassador at the time (Chris Beeby) and his second secretary went out of their way to help the fugitive diplomats, providing food, renting a house for them, and (in the case of the secretary) obtaining their disembarkation forms and taking the huge risk of actually driving them to Tehran Airport under the guise of being a Canadian film crew. Not that anyone who sees Argo will be any the wiser!

Affleck's excuse for distorting the facts? He "needed to get the sense that the six Americans had nowhere else to go [other than the Canadian Embassy]." Hmm. Not good enough, I say!

 

Cheers

Derek 

 

[Derek McGovern]

P.S. Just a friendly reminder that this discussion thread is for non-Lanza topics. It's an "anything goes" thread :) General posts about Lanza should be made in the Miscellaneous Lanza-related questions and comments thread.

[Michael McAdam]

Just a quick note on a fact that many non-North Americans probably don't immediately appreciate: back in 1979 those six US diplomats, knowing that the Iranian Intelligence Agency was not populated by dolts, realized that they would have to arrange a convincing masquerade. Ergo: to be Canadians would be the most natural segue coming to mind, non? 

We dress, look, walk and eat (er, some of us) like Americans. Most importantly, we SOUND like Americans from the northern states and share most of their slang and idiomatic expressions. I know for a fact that a cowboy from Alberta is indistinguishable from his counterpart in Montana (just as David Savage from New England and myself from New Scotland, across the border 150 miles away, likely sound the same). In 1979, all Cdn Ambassador Ken Taylor's staff had to do, and this is a fact, was to emphatically remind those six Yanks to drop the "huh?" and adopt the "eh?".......eh?

Mike

(P.S: looking forward to seeing Argo. It will be interesting to see how Ben Affleck depicts Canadians in his film....if indeed they have anything but minor parts)

On Saturday, February 16, 2013 9:39:31 PM UTC-4, Derek McGovern wrote:

- - - - - - - - - - -  some New Zealanders are equally galled that another well-received historical movie currently doing the rounds---Ben Affleck's Argo---misrepresents our country's stance during the 1979 Iran Hostage Crisis!! I haven't seen Argo yet, but apparently it depicts the New Zealand Embassy in Tehran refusing to help six US diplomats who were trying to flee Iran. As Affleck's film has it, only the kind Canadian Embassy would help the diplomats (though Affleck has since acknowledged that he knows this was untrue). In fact, as NZ journalist Karl Du Fresne has recently written, the New Zealand Ambassador at the time (Chris Beeby) and his second secretary went out of their way to help the fugitive diplomats, providing food, renting a house for them, and (in the case of the secretary) obtaining their disembarkation forms and taking the huge risk of actually driving them to Tehran Airport under the guise of being a Canadian film crew. Not that anyone who sees Argo will be any the wiser!

[Michael McAdam]

Funny isn't it  Derek....Ken Taylor, our then-Ambassador, was on a newsmagazine program the other day and after seeing Argo he said he was a bit hurt that Hollywood had hardly acknowledged Canada's contribution to the exfiltration of the Americans (the six diplomats certainly did and US and Cdn TV made a joint documentary about the rescue bback in the early 80's and called it "The Canadian Caper". BTW, Taylor did mention NZ diplomats' help the other day on that program.

M.

[Derek McGovern]

Hi Mike: That's certainly ironic that your former ambassador is upset by Argo when, according to this respected NZ writer at least, it's Canada that's been showered in glory in the film at NZ's expense! But nice of your man to acknowledge NZ diplomats' help.  

 

Cheers

Derek

[Steff]

 

This blog post might be interesting and informative reading:

 

"Vote for Serge Koussevitzky! Why you should vote for the Russian conductor to join the Gramophone Hall of Fame"

 

http://www.gramophone.co.uk/blog/the-gramophone-blog/vote-koussevitzky?utm_source=Silverpop&utm_medium=EMAIL&utm_campaign=GRAM%20ENews%20Bulletin%20-%20130318%20(18.03.2012)&utm_content=article7_headline

 

Steff

 

 

[Derek McGovern]

I voted for dear old Koussevitzky, Steff! And conductor Vernon Handley as well (he did some wonderful recordings of my beloved Elgar), along with the likes of Wunderlich, Van Dam, Carreras, Di Stefano et al.

 

It pains me, though, that Lanza is not even considered worthy of consideration by this magazine!

 

Cheers

Derek 

[Steff]

Hi Derek,

 

I had already given my votes for the "Gramophone Hall of Fame" weeks ago, and of course I included Koussevitzky. (Some other's on my list were: Tebaldi, Wunderlich (especially because of his strong association to my hometown Freiburg), Zubin Mehta (saw him live at the "Three Tenors" concert in Rome, Baths of Caracalla, 1990; it is a joy to watch him conduct!), Ann-Sophie Mutter (one of the greats who comes from my area), José Carreras and Montserrat Caballé (she's one of those opera-singers who has always remained down-to earth,during her incredibly long lasting singing career).

 

Incidentally, I was surprised to see that Joyce DiDonato is already member of the Hall of Fame, whereas singers such as Tebaldi, Freni, Netrebko etc., etc...... still haven't mad it yet!)

 

Those who are interested in participating and still haven't voted can do this here (Closing date: March 20):

 

http://www.gramophone.co.uk/halloffame

 

Don't miss the chance!

 

Steff

 

[Barnabas Nemeth]

My prefences are somewhat different. I agrre with Koussevitzky, but beyond are rather Fritz Reiner, di Stefano, Ruggieri Ricci, Annie Fisher, John Williams,  etc. At the same time, I couldn't find choice option for Callas, Lanza, Karajan, Ana Maria Martinez and many others. How come?...Barnabas

2013/3/19 Steff <Stefanie....@t-online.de>

 

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[Steff]

Hi Barnabas,

 

When you follow the link that I gave in my previous post then you will see a list of the names of those artists who already are in the "Gramophone Hall of Fame," and there you will find Karajan and Callas among others.

 

Steff

[Derek McGovern]

I've just read in the New York Times that mezzo-soprano Rise Stevens has died, less than three months before her 100th birthday. She certainly had a great innings, and a wonderful career.

 

Meanwhile Licia Albanese will be celebrating her (official) 100th birthday in July, and I see that Magda Olivero will turn an incredible 103 on March 25th.

 

[Derek McGovern]

A handful of posts back on this thread, Steff brought up the Gramophone Hall of Fame. Some of us then voted for various singers, conductors, etc. Well, the 2013 inductees have just been announced, and these are the singers who made it through:

Montserrat CABALLÉ ● Renée FLEMING ● Thomas HAMPSON ● Anna NETREBKO ● Leontyne PRICE ● Bryn TERFEL ● Fritz WUNDERLICH  

(Click on any of the names above to be taken to a Gramophone profile on the artist.)

Cheers

Derek

[Derek McGovern]

A P.S. to the above:

Here's the complete list of the 2013 Gramophone Hall of Fame inductees:

http://www.gramophone.co.uk/HallofFame?utm_source=Silverpop&utm_medium=EMAIL&utm_campaign=GRAM%20ENews%20Bulletin%20130528%20(28.05.2013)%20(28.05.2013)&utm_content=article1_headline

Sadly, Koussevitzky didn't make it---though given how many glaring omissions there are here, I'm hardly surprised!

[Armando]

Based on past experience, musical taste and critical assessment in the UK and Italy are poles apart. Singers such as Bjorling, Bartoli and even Netrebko are idolised in the UK at the expense of artists of the calibre of Aureliano Pertile, Mirella Freni and Renata Scotto, just to name three singers. I imagine that a poll taken in Italy would bring totally different results!

[leeann]

July is Tenor Month at Opera News.  The magazine's July issue is called "The Tenors Issue: The Caruso Legacy." While several articles are subscriber-only, the general public can access articles on Bryan Hymel and Jan Keipura as well as an an interview "Back from the Brink: Rolando Villazon" and an article about Enrico Caruso. (Table of contents is here.)

For further tenor fun--the Opera News Facebook page will feature a posting about a particular tenor every day during July.--You do NOT have to join Facebook to read the Opera News page.  Just visit this link: https://www.facebook.com/OperaNews.

Villazon talked about Verdi's operas (a propos of the forum thread here). He's apparently been on a Verdi recital tour in Europe recently.

While there are plenty of Verdi roles he would like to sing — notably Riccardo in Un Ballo in Maschera — he is against resuscitating early, below-par operas for the sake of it, suggesting that the composer himself would probably have preferred to put them aside in favor of his masterpieces.

"We were talking about fiery and cerebral qualities, and if there is one composer that combines those two, and in which they have to be perfectly balanced, it's Verdi," he says. "He is the center of gravity for the operatic repertoire. You can understand both Britten and Handel through him. Sometimes he was accused of being too classical, too traditional, and it was true that he kept the models — but he didn't stop evolving. He brought new challenges to the human voice. Others, like Wagner, were demanding a new way of singing and of approaching music. Verdi was rooted in bel canto, but he brought into singing this dramatic extra force, this completely theatrical understanding through technical means. He knew the voice extremely well — his writing for the voice is challenging, fantastic and merciless. He made the voice tell the story. Whenever there's coloratura, he transforms every line, every legato, every high note — everything has a dramatic purpose."

I wonder where Villazon would place Il Trovatore in his listing of operas worth resuscitating!  Cheers, Lee Ann