A new approach to an operatic compilation?

[jora...@gmail.com]

I know we have previously discussed a petition to BMG to compile a worthy collection of operatic recordings by Lanza.

 If power in numbers cannot overcome the studio's inertia, might a different approach get some attention? What if a petition of Derek's picks was endorsed by a list of  very recognized names ( especially from the music world). Of course, this would be a slower process but what headway have we made to date? None!

 I am sure we could get such endorsements from  the likes of  Carreras, Domingo, and many other current singers, Non-muscians of note could also be included such as Elissa Lanza, Armando etc Shoot, maybe even Derek Mannering would at least sign on.

The concept is this: maybe BMG would think, Gee, if people like THIS think it would be a good idea, maybe such a list might be a commercial success.

Worth a shot?

[jora...@gmail.com]

A. P.S. to the above: BMG might even be able (with permission) to use such a collective endorsement as part of its advertisement and promotion.This point could also be made to BMG.

[Armando]

Hello Joe and thank you for your suggestions regarding a compilation of Lanza’ operatic recordings.

The main problem, as you well know, is getting someone at Sony/BMG to listen. Would they pay attention to the likes of Carreras , Domingo, et al? Possibly. But all it would take, in my opinion, is for Derek Mannering, who has had a lasting working relationship with BMG for the last twenty years, to merely suggest such a compilation to them and most likely they would consider it and, who knows, it could even become a reality.  Perhaps you, or someone who posts on the Rense’s forum, could sound Mannering out on the idea.

Our Derek will be more than happy to cooperate with him as would I and, furthermore, neither of us would be seeking any acknowledgments from either BMG or Derek Mannering. We would merely act as silent advisors.

Cheers,

Armando

[jora...@gmail.com]

But isn’t the nub of the problem the stubbornness of Mannering to consider a “refined” collection of operatic choices? (Believing that such a collection would not be commercial). He is well aware of Derek’s list so I don’t see him cooperating with a plea from us. So my point is maybe there is a way to bypass him. Certainly BMG would at least “consider” a petition signed by some of the tenor greats as well as  other very recognizable names like you, Lanza’s daughter etc. It’s hard for me to believe that BMG has set in stone that all Lanza compilations MUST go through Mannering. The signees of this” pre-petition” certainly would endorse such a compilation (they would want a copy for themselves!) and I am sure a letter crafted by our Derek( who writes so compellingly) would do the trick. A round-about route….but “what’s to lose”?.......Just a thought, Joe

[Armando]

Hi Joe: Of course, what you are saying is right. Mannering has, indeed, refused to consider such a compilation in the past; I just thought that, perhaps, by offering our unheralded collaboration he might change his mind.

Getting a petition signed by some major names means we will have to get in touch with their respective agents and, hopefully, the request will be passed on to them, which, I might add, is not always the case. However, we could make an attempt.

As for Lanza’s daughter, Lisa, she is on friendly terms with Mannering, has endorsed everything he has ever done and, therefore, I very much doubt that she would be interested in our proposal unless he is a part of it.

If anyone else, among of our mostly silent members, has any suggestions, as to how to get through the impenetrable Sony/BMG barrier, they are more than welcome to express them.  

Cheers,

Armando

    

[Derek McGovern]

Interesting posts from Armando and Joe on this very frustrating issue.

The way I see it, getting a big name behind our neverending campaign for a superb operatic compilation would only mean something if the musician/singer/conductor, etc, were a Lanza aficionado. And someone who felt as strongly as we do about this subject. I seriously doubt that Carreras and Domingo, for example, are familiar enough with Lanza's discography to know that he often sang better than Mr. Mannering's compilations would suggest. And if that's the case, I doubt very much that they would have either the time or inclination to educate themselves about the vast differences in quality between various Lanza renditions. 

Besides, even if Domingo and/or Carreras did agree to lend their names to calls for a new operatic compilation, there are no guarantees that we would end up with the kind of operatic compilation we want, especially if the choices were left to Derek Mannering.

Someone like Joseph Calleja, who once told me that he intended to acquire all of Lanza's recordings, would probably be a better bet. Knowing how much he appreciates Lanza recordings such as the Otello Death Scene, I would love to spend an evening with him discussing---and comparing---the best and worst of Lanza's operatic recordings. I'm confident he would then feel as we do: that the choice of material on CDs such as Opera Arias and Duets and the all-Coke Lanza Sings His Favorite Arias fails to do justice to Lanza's legacy.

But, again, when would someone as busy as Calleja have the time to sit down and compare Lanza's many recordings? It would be naive to expect such a thing. And even if it did happen---and he felt stirred up enough to "join the cause"---Calleja is not an RCA/BMG/Sony artist, so why should Sony care about his opinion? Remember that the bottom line is always that Mannering's CDs sell. 

I honestly feel that our best chance of getting a superb operatic compilation is for Mannering's musically literate friends and admirers on the Rense forum and in the British Mario Lanza Society to exert some pressure on the man. Tell him gently but persuasively that they're tired of uneven compilations and especially bothered by the almost-complete neglect of the more serious side of Lanza's legacy. Surely some of them feel that way?

Cheers,

Derek

[Joseph Fagan]

Could one of our electronic wizards "put together" the ideal compilation on a disc which could then be provided to some big names in music for a listen.....saying, "if you agree that this is superb compilation, would you please lend your name to a petition to make this a commercial reality? All Lanza fans would appreciate your act of kindness and your support would make a major contribution to the music you love etc

stubborn Joe

[jora...@gmail.com]

Didn't Domingo narrate a VHS taped program about Lanza? I am sure he would champion this"ideal" operatic compilation. The theme of the aforementioned  program dealt with Mario's suppressed desire to sing opera. This was the point Domingo was making, so such a compilation supports his video. I am sorry to be such a broken record here; its just so frustrating and I hate to give up. My last word on this, promise!

[Derek McGovern]

Hi Joe: I would love to send the single-disc "ultimate" Lanza operatic compilation outlined here not only to potential celebrity supporters of our campaign, but also to those who have routinely disparaged Lanza's opera singing. Heck, if I could, I'd send everyone on the Rense forum---even Mannering!---a copy in the hope of finally getting through to them: that this is what a truly great Lanza operatic compilation sounds like. No splendid singing followed by a mediocre or even bad rendition, as we find on, say, the 1999 Opera Arias and Duets CD---just one excellent rendition after another. 

I'm convinced that such a compilation would be a revelation to many.

But, Joe, there is such a thing as copyright infringement, and in the US Lanza's commercial recordings are still RCA's property. (Elsewhere in the world, recordings older than 50 years are in the public domain.) The illegal copying of recordings is also a sore point with contemporary recording artists for the obvious reason that it affects their royalties, so I doubt that the likes of Domingo and Calleja would take kindly to receiving a homemade disc of copyrighted material. 

As for Domingo's involvement in the PBS documentary on Lanza, that was 32 years ago, and he was reading from a script---not voicing his own opinions. I also wouldn't say that the theme of that program was Mario's "suppressed desire to sing opera." That observation came only at the end of the program. But I certainly feel that it should have been the theme of the program, since it would have helped to explain why Lanza's failure to realize his potential contributed in large part to his downward spiral. 

Cheers,

Derek

[Derek McGovern]

A P.S. to the above: I would urge anyone reading this discussion who is puzzled by my criticisms of Mr. Mannering's compilations to take a look at this article:

http://www.mariolanzatenor.com/fixing-lanzas-recorded-legacy.html

Yes, it's interminably long, but I hope it makes a compelling case for change. (I also hope it falls into the hands of someone with the influence to effect that change!)

[Derek McGovern]

And one final thought.

Armando wrote earlier in this thread:

[A]ll it would take, in my opinion, is for Derek Mannering, who has had a lasting working relationship with BMG for the last twenty years, to merely suggest such a compilation to them and most likely they would consider it and, who knows, it could even become a reality.  Perhaps you, or someone who posts on the Rense’s forum, could sound Mannering out on the idea.

Our Derek will be more than happy to cooperate with him as would I and, furthermore, neither of us would be seeking any acknowledgments from either BMG or Derek Mannering. We would merely act as silent advisors.

I couldn't agree more with the above. Mr. Mannering is in a unique position to urge for an operatic release, and I'd be among the first to congratulate him if he were to succeed in bringing out a compilation of consistently outstanding material. And like Armando, I'd also be delighted to help in any way I could (in a completely unofficial capacity, of course).

Unlikely as it may seem to some, I don't bear Derek Mannering any ill will; I simply disagree (profoundly!) with his representation of Lanza on CD. But I've never doubted his sincerity.   

[Derek McGovern]

I'm gratified to see that at least one person on the Rense forum---Martino---agrees that an outstanding Lanza operatic compilation is long overdue, and has asked Derek Mannering for comment. Good! Putting that "bug in [Mannering's] ear," as Martino terms it, is indeed a start. And even if we're given the same old excuses---lack of commercial viability, etc---at least the seed will have been planted over on that forum.     

The only sour note about Martino's post is that he found it necessary to diss this forum in the same breath, opining that most of the discussions here "go round in neverending circles." Now I can't say for sure which discussions Martino is referring to, but I'm assuming he means my repeated criticisms of Jeff Rense for issuing three CDs of doctored Lanza recordings on the BMG Special Products label and the equally frequent criticisms here of Derek Mannering's CD compilations. If my assumptions are correct, then I make no apologies for these recurring themes. In fact, they "go round in neverending circles" for the very reason that they're unresolved issues that should be discussed until they are resolved!

In the case of the doctored CDs, I'm still bitterly disappointed that no one on the Rense forum (except Vince) has ever had the courage to express their displeasure at the tampering that occurred on these discs. This sonic trickery was especially unforgivable in the case of the various live performances featured on the Rense CD Live Radio and Concert Recordings. I say that because there are so few live recordings of Lanza singing opera, and to have the integrity of these performances questioned by those who've detected the obvious tampering (which includes high notes extended by several seconds), as indeed has happened, is damaging to his legacy. Yet I've been told by one respected individual in the Lanza world that I should refrain from raising the matter since it is supposedly "a dead issue" on the Rense forum. Well, not to me. The CDs are still being promoted by those who ought to know (or, in one prominent instance, do know) better, and unsuspecting buyers continue to assume that the recordings are authentic. Only today on the Rense forum, for example, a poster named Diane referred approvingly to the same discs. She obviously has no idea that the extended high B at the end of the 1948 "Nessun dorma" is artificial, or that a B-flat on the Hollywood Bowl Improvviso has been "helped" by a similar tweaking of the engineer's knobs.  

As for the other "neverending" issue---criticisms of Derek Mannering's compilations---well, I can only say that for those of us here who care passionately about Lanza's legacy, it should hardly be surprising that we keep harping on about the issue. It's "neverending" precisely because of its nature: a seemingly endless series of lightweight and/or uneven compilations over the last two decades. Even a saint might start getting a little tetchy. 

As for the rest of what we discuss here, I think Martino fails to give us our due in his gratuitous putdown. We are the only Lanza forum that consistently discusses Lanza's actual singing. There have been some amazing (and amazingly literate) musical discussions here, and I'm enormously proud of the quality of our members' posts. Take a look through our archive. I'm also extremely proud of our main site---which I've noticed, to my amusement, is never mentioned by name on the Rense forum. We're alluded to but never identified; in short, the Site that Dare Not Speak Its Name :)   

But I am grateful to Martino for sticking to his guns in recognizing the need for an outstanding operatic compilation. I'm also glad that he doesn't appear to be buying the hyperbolic nonsense expressed by another Rense poster, one Ronald Sarbo, that we "keep clinging to this MAGIC CD fantasy that will part the Red Sea and make everyone on the planet acknowledge Mario as the greatest opera singer who ever lived." No one here has ever promoted that view. What I think many of us do cling to, though, is the hope that a superb operatic CD, aside from being absurdly overdue, will impress those who had previously dismissed Lanza's operatic potential. I would also love for once to have a commercially released Lanza CD that I could recommend without qualification to serious music lovers.

Just one great operatic CD. Is that really too much to ask for? 

[Derek McGovern]

Well, it would seem from his deafening silence on the matter that Derek Mannering has no interest in pushing Sony for an operatic CD. I can't say I'm surprised; after all, he hinted a while back that he had "earmarked" more love songs for his next compilation. And perhaps that's just as well, given that Lindsay Perigo has publicly urged him to disregard anyone else's opinions if he were to compile an operatic disc. (That hasn't stopped the entertaining Mr. P from offering his own definitive compilation choices---a wacky list that included the hilariously bad Coke version of the Flower Song. In fact, his list was so heavy on Coke Shows that it ought to have come with a diabetes warning :))

But I'm not giving up on the idea of an outstanding operatic CD, even if it means approaching a company such as the UK-based Sepia Records, which did a fine job on its 1959 Student Prince restoration two years ago. In Europe, at least, recordings older than fifty years are in the public domain, so there would be nothing stopping a company like Sepia from putting out its own Lanza compilation. At the very least, since it specializes in restoring old albums, Sepia might be persuaded to put out an improved version (sound-wise) of the heavily operatic Serenade album, and (ideally) fill up the rest of the CD with bonus tracks of other operatic recordings. 

Speaking of the Serenade soundtrack, it's ridiculous that no CD of the album has ever been released in the US. To make matters worse, the 2004 Serenade/Cavalcade CD, which was only released in the UK, is no longer available either as a physical disc or digitally. As a result, some of Lanza's best operatic recordings---Lamento di Federico, "Amor ti vieta," "Di rigori armato," and "O paradiso"---are known only to aficionados. (Even on YouTube, there's no complete version of the 1955 Lamento to be found.) Meanwhile inferior versions of the Lamento, "Amor ti vieta," and "O paradiso" are all freely available. Sad.  

One way or the other, though, I'm confident we'll see the release of an outstanding Lanza operatic compilation in the not-too-distant future.    

[Barnabas Nemeth]

You mean, a double CD should be compiled not a single one? Incl. the complete Othello duet, as well, etc. ... Barnabas

[Derek McGovern]

Barnabas: I think you may be confused between the ideal operatic compilations I outlined in this article and the compromise disc I suggested in my previous post. 

My "dream" operatic release would be a double CD, but the reality is that single-CD sets are much more common. For that reason, I've offered suggestions for both single-CD and double-CD operatic compilations:

http://www.mariolanzatenor.com/fixing-lanzas-recorded-legacy-page-2.html#1  

Because the Act III Otello duet is ten minutes long, I've suggested that it be included on the double CD rather than the single one. The single-CD operatic CD would consist of arias only, including the Otello Monologue (naturally). 

The CD release I was suggesting in my previous post was a single CD produced by the UK-based Sepia Records. (As far as I know, that company doesn't release double CDs.) Sepia, as I wrote earlier, specializes in restoring old albums in their entirety. If they were to produce a remastered version of the Serenade soundtrack album, together with about 30 minutes' worth of bonus tracks---all of them recordings of arias---we would have a CD that was mostly operatic. Now that's something to consider.

If I had my way, those bonus operatic tracks would include:

1) Che gelida manina (1949)

2/ M'appari' (1950)

3/ Improvviso (1950)

4/ Questa o quella (1950)

5/ E lucevan le stelle (1950)

6/ Vesti la giubba (1958)

7/ Otello Death Scene (1958)   

Cheers,

Derek 

[Lou]

Hi Derek: I believe getting Derek Mannering to push Sony for an operatic CD has less than a snowball's chance in hell. I'm resigned to the idea that our longed-for CD(s) of Lanza's outstanding operatic renditions will remain a pipe dream for as long as Mr. Mannering enjoys Sony's esteem and confidence as a commercially savvy compiler. For this reason, I'm all for pursuing your Sepia alternative. If they buy into your proposal and the mostly operatic CD proves to be commercially viable, perhaps Sony will have a change of heart. 

Cheers,

Lou

[Barnabas Nemeth]

Derek, I can't disagree with both suggested compilations. Of course, the double-CD is better and much more complete. We should insist on the double version. Barnabas

[Derek McGovern]

I see on the Rense forum today that Derek Mannering has finally responded to calls for a new all-operatic compilation:

I would love to see a new operatic collection on disc and I will be happy to run the suggestion by Sony when I get back to the States later in the summer (though with the recent successful launch of the "Toast of Hollywood" compilation I suspect they won't be in any hurry to run with it). The purpose of the "Arias & Duets" release was to present rare tracks that had yet to see the light of day on disc at that time and that goal was more than accomplished. It was never meant to be a 'definitive' Lanza opera collection and it would be nice if some of the usual suspects would stop nitpicking about the few tracks they don't care for.

I'll be happy to discuss this in more detail when I'm back in the U.S.

While I was surprised to learn that Mr. Mannering's goal with the 1999 Opera Arias and Duets CD was not to showcase Lanza's best operatic efforts, but rather "to present rare tracks that had yet to see the light of day on disc at that time," it's good to see him acknowledging that his CD was not a definitive Lanza operatic compilation. I beg to differ, however, on his claim that we "usual suspects" have criticized just a "few" of the tracks on that CD. It was more like nine of the disc's 16 tracks! :)

But his post gives reason for cautious optimism. Given how lukewarm he's been in the past on the idea of another operatic compilation, it's gratifying that he's now prepared to pitch the concept to Sony. That doesn't guarantee, of course, that we'll end up with a great CD even if Sony agrees to the proposal. But it leaves room for hope...

In the meantime, Joe: You should take a bow for starting this influential thread. It's clearly had the desired effect!   

Cheers,

Derek

[Derek McGovern]

I was recently amused to read Derek Mannering's online description of me as "the most obsessed" Lanza admirer he'd encountered. "Ever!" he felt compelled to add. 

I'd have preferred "passionate"---and I can't help wondering if Mr. Mannering would have used that adjective instead (or something similarly positive) if I had been one of his cheerleaders rather than his frequent critic. 

Still, he has a point. I suppose any labour of love, as this forum and our main site have been, requires an element of obsessiveness. Some might call it a magnificent obsession :) But I don't see that as a negative thing---nor do I feel that lobbying enthusiastically, as many of us have done here, for better Lanza compilations is anything to be embarrassed about. (Besides, the embarrassment should have been felt by BMG/Sony, not us.)  

But there are encouraging signs that all our "nagging" may have been worth it. Derek Mannering has confirmed that he recently presented his Sony masters with a proposal for an all-operatic Lanza CD. While the CD isn't a certainty yet, if it does go ahead, I have a hunch that it will be a decent compilation. For starters, Mr. Mannering has already revealed that two very fine recordings---the Serenade Lamento di Federico and For the First Time "Vesti la giubba"---will be on it. That's good news!

Anyway, if my hunch proves correct, I'll be among the first to congratulate him. 

[Vincent Di Placido]

Hello Derek! Yes that "most obsessed" dig wasn't fair & as usual you are spot on to substitute it with passionate! You have such a drive & enthusiasm, it impresses me anyway, that's for sure. You have done amazing work for Mario & how he is is perceived & remembered!
I just wish Derek Mannering would/ could take constructive criticism better, nobody likes to be criticised but you/ we have tried to always do it for the right reasons & for the best results. Let's hope his operatic project works out well. I've a lot to be grateful to Derek Mannering for, I've enjoyed his releases mostly & his was the first Lanza biography I read & it was so welcome at the time & the "Life in Pictures" book is beautiful. If he would only take some advice as regards Lanza's post 1953 singing & going outside the Great Anerican Songbook, also it's obviously not his thing but from me, a huge fan of Canzone Napulitana, he has to accept "Mario!" Is near perfect & yes! A masterpiece of its kind! I suppose what I'm saying is we all need help sometimes...

[Derek McGovern]

Thanks, Vince. I should emphasize, by the way, that I don't consider myself the most passionate Lanza admirer either. I'm sure there are plenty of other contenders for that title :)

Anyway, I acknowledge the good things that Mannering has done over the years, and in the spirit of Christmas cheer will leave it at that. 

Let's hope that 2015 proves a banner year for Lanza's operatic recordings, with not just the Sepia CD but an outstanding Sony compilation as well!