Lanza as an Actor
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Derek McGovern
Mar 13, 2008, 3:18:57 PM3/13/08
to The Mario Lanza Forum
Jana wrote on another thread:
"I think Mario's acting was not flawless, but I don't think he was a
bad actor as such. At times, I feel a little more
guidance would have helped. The overall impression might not be so
good, but I suspect the directors of both not trusting him enough and
not guiding him enough. How is it possible that somebody can act the
Otello monologue so amazingly and can not act a "normal" role? Yes, my
first impression after seeing The Great Caruso was that Mario was not
an extremely good actor, but after seeing all his movies, I must say
that it is not true. I guess he had been underestimated by the
directors of the pictures. There are excellent touches in many of his
films. I know Derek disagrees, but I'm glad I'm not the only one who
thinks Mario was not a bad actor."
Actually, Jana, you must have misunderstood me! When I wrote earlier
that Lanza was not highly regarded as an actor, I wasn't expressing my
own opinion - but rather that of the general public and, in
particular, the film critics (who never had a kind word to say about
his skills as a thespian). I do think that Lanza had the potential to
be a good film actor -- perhaps even a very good one -- and there are
scenes in all of his movies in which he acts well. In fact, in his
first film, That Midnight Kiss -- in which he's up against a lot of
experienced talent -- Mario essentially holds his own throughout the
movie. Of course, the limitations of the script don't give him much
room to impress as an actor, but the key thing is that he's
believable. One could say the same about much of his acting in his
last film, in which he often rises above the banal dialogue and
corniness of the script. (Martha Hart, on her excellent website --
www.mlhart.com -- describes Mario as "delicious in [For the First
Time], almost playing himself, and seemingly more comfortable in front
of the cameras.")
Lanza's friend Barry Nelson told Armando that Mario never felt secure
as an actor. This is entirely understandable when you think that he
went from having no acting appearance (apart from his two operatic
roles on stage) straight into playing leading roles in films. Who
wouldn't be insecure in front of the cameras when a whole film is
riding on your talents? What Lanza really needed in order to develop
his skills and confidence as an actor was a director who could guide
him -- and also tactfully insist on retakes whenever necessary.
Speaking of which, Richard Thorpe, who directed him in The Great
Caruso, was famous for making his movies as quickly as possible --
reportedly doing only one take of each scene whenever possible. (James
Mason later said that Thorpe's penchant for doing everything in single
takes is the reason "we don't remember his films"!) Perhaps this
explains the clumsiness of Mario's last scene in that film when he
collapses before he stops singing :-)
What do others here think of Lanza as an actor? Do you think he had
the potential to improve, or was he always going to be an actor of
limited ability? It'd be interesting to know what scenes from his
films impressed people here (or didn't impress them, as the case may
be!).
"I think Mario's acting was not flawless, but I don't think he was a
bad actor as such. At times, I feel a little more
guidance would have helped. The overall impression might not be so
good, but I suspect the directors of both not trusting him enough and
not guiding him enough. How is it possible that somebody can act the
Otello monologue so amazingly and can not act a "normal" role? Yes, my
first impression after seeing The Great Caruso was that Mario was not
an extremely good actor, but after seeing all his movies, I must say
that it is not true. I guess he had been underestimated by the
directors of the pictures. There are excellent touches in many of his
films. I know Derek disagrees, but I'm glad I'm not the only one who
thinks Mario was not a bad actor."
Actually, Jana, you must have misunderstood me! When I wrote earlier
that Lanza was not highly regarded as an actor, I wasn't expressing my
own opinion - but rather that of the general public and, in
particular, the film critics (who never had a kind word to say about
his skills as a thespian). I do think that Lanza had the potential to
be a good film actor -- perhaps even a very good one -- and there are
scenes in all of his movies in which he acts well. In fact, in his
first film, That Midnight Kiss -- in which he's up against a lot of
experienced talent -- Mario essentially holds his own throughout the
movie. Of course, the limitations of the script don't give him much
room to impress as an actor, but the key thing is that he's
believable. One could say the same about much of his acting in his
last film, in which he often rises above the banal dialogue and
corniness of the script. (Martha Hart, on her excellent website --
www.mlhart.com -- describes Mario as "delicious in [For the First
Time], almost playing himself, and seemingly more comfortable in front
of the cameras.")
Lanza's friend Barry Nelson told Armando that Mario never felt secure
as an actor. This is entirely understandable when you think that he
went from having no acting appearance (apart from his two operatic
roles on stage) straight into playing leading roles in films. Who
wouldn't be insecure in front of the cameras when a whole film is
riding on your talents? What Lanza really needed in order to develop
his skills and confidence as an actor was a director who could guide
him -- and also tactfully insist on retakes whenever necessary.
Speaking of which, Richard Thorpe, who directed him in The Great
Caruso, was famous for making his movies as quickly as possible --
reportedly doing only one take of each scene whenever possible. (James
Mason later said that Thorpe's penchant for doing everything in single
takes is the reason "we don't remember his films"!) Perhaps this
explains the clumsiness of Mario's last scene in that film when he
collapses before he stops singing :-)
What do others here think of Lanza as an actor? Do you think he had
the potential to improve, or was he always going to be an actor of
limited ability? It'd be interesting to know what scenes from his
films impressed people here (or didn't impress them, as the case may
be!).
Joe Fagan
Mar 13, 2008, 4:11:59 PM3/13/08
to mario...@googlegroups.com
in "Serenade" ( which had the "potential" to be a very good movie) I
thought the scene wherein he destroyed her bust ( sculpture) was very good,
as well as his" Ave Maria scene " in the chapel. BTW, I think that was the
loveliest Schubert "Ave" ever recorded by *ANYONE* ; just magnificent! ~~and
his acting in that scene was also wonderful...".Serenade", the film,
needed to be better edited ( way too long) and it also needed a fuller
explanation of how Joan Fontaine got under his skin.
thought the scene wherein he destroyed her bust ( sculpture) was very good,
as well as his" Ave Maria scene " in the chapel. BTW, I think that was the
loveliest Schubert "Ave" ever recorded by *ANYONE* ; just magnificent! ~~and
his acting in that scene was also wonderful...".Serenade", the film,
needed to be better edited ( way too long) and it also needed a fuller
explanation of how Joan Fontaine got under his skin.
There is no doubt, Mario Lanza had *each and every tool *to become ( with
coaching and good health) the Greatest of all the tenors. Even his checkered
and short career will live forever!
Derek McGovern
Mar 14, 2008, 3:06:50 AM3/14/08
to The Mario Lanza Forum
Hi Joe: I like the "destroying the bust" scene up until the point
where Lanza/Damon starts weeping. (It's just a bit overdone.) But
goodness, he looks much older than 34 in the close-up here (just
before he destroys the bust)! There's a poignant nobility in his
features here, though -- it's a very interesting shot.
The Ave Maria scene is wonderfully acted (by both Sarita & Mario) and
beautifully sung -- by far his best version of the hymn, in my
opinion. I play it often. And to think that this must have been one of
the first scenes in the movie that they filmed! This is Lanza at his
most restrained and touching, and it shows exactly what he could
achieve as an actor when given the right guidance.
Incidentally, I wish the opening lines to the Ave Maria on both the
soundtrack LP and CD were the same as in the movie. The splice is
obvious, and -- what's more -- the actual film version is much better.
(The rest of the Ave Maria is the same recording, though.) Here's a
link to the superior film rendition:
http://www.4shared.com/file/40745695/afced9b1/Ave_Maria__1955_.html
> >www.mlhart.com-- describes Mario as "delicious in [For the First
>
> - Show quoted text -
where Lanza/Damon starts weeping. (It's just a bit overdone.) But
goodness, he looks much older than 34 in the close-up here (just
before he destroys the bust)! There's a poignant nobility in his
features here, though -- it's a very interesting shot.
The Ave Maria scene is wonderfully acted (by both Sarita & Mario) and
beautifully sung -- by far his best version of the hymn, in my
opinion. I play it often. And to think that this must have been one of
the first scenes in the movie that they filmed! This is Lanza at his
most restrained and touching, and it shows exactly what he could
achieve as an actor when given the right guidance.
Incidentally, I wish the opening lines to the Ave Maria on both the
soundtrack LP and CD were the same as in the movie. The splice is
obvious, and -- what's more -- the actual film version is much better.
(The rest of the Ave Maria is the same recording, though.) Here's a
link to the superior film rendition:
http://www.4shared.com/file/40745695/afced9b1/Ave_Maria__1955_.html
> > Time], almost playing himself, and seemingly more comfortable in front
> > of the cameras.")
>
> > Lanza's friend Barry Nelson told Armando that Mario never felt secure
> > as an actor. This is entirely understandable when you think that he
> > went from having no acting appearance (apart from his two operatic
> > roles on stage) straight into playing leading roles in films. Who
> > wouldn't be insecure in front of the cameras when a whole film is
> > riding on your talents? What Lanza really needed in order to develop
> > his skills and confidence as an actor was a director who could guide
> > him -- and also tactfully insist on retakes whenever necessary.
>
> > Speaking of which, Richard Thorpe, who directed him in The Great
> > Caruso, was famous for making his movies as quickly as possible --
> > reportedly doing only one take of each scene whenever possible. (James
> > Mason later said that Thorpe's penchant for doing everything in single
> > takes is the reason "we don't remember his films"!) Perhaps this
> > explains the clumsiness of Mario's last scene in that film when he
> > collapses before he stops singing :-)
>
> > What do others here think of Lanza as an actor? Do you think he had
> > the potential to improve, or was he always going to be an actor of
> > limited ability? It'd be interesting to know what scenes from his
> > films impressed people here (or didn't impress them, as the case may
> > be!).- Hide quoted text -
> > of the cameras.")
>
> > Lanza's friend Barry Nelson told Armando that Mario never felt secure
> > as an actor. This is entirely understandable when you think that he
> > went from having no acting appearance (apart from his two operatic
> > roles on stage) straight into playing leading roles in films. Who
> > wouldn't be insecure in front of the cameras when a whole film is
> > riding on your talents? What Lanza really needed in order to develop
> > his skills and confidence as an actor was a director who could guide
> > him -- and also tactfully insist on retakes whenever necessary.
>
> > Speaking of which, Richard Thorpe, who directed him in The Great
> > Caruso, was famous for making his movies as quickly as possible --
> > reportedly doing only one take of each scene whenever possible. (James
> > Mason later said that Thorpe's penchant for doing everything in single
> > takes is the reason "we don't remember his films"!) Perhaps this
> > explains the clumsiness of Mario's last scene in that film when he
> > collapses before he stops singing :-)
>
> > What do others here think of Lanza as an actor? Do you think he had
> > the potential to improve, or was he always going to be an actor of
> > limited ability? It'd be interesting to know what scenes from his
> > films impressed people here (or didn't impress them, as the case may
>
> - Show quoted text -
Muriel
Mar 14, 2008, 5:55:00 AM3/14/08
to The Mario Lanza Forum
Watching Mario's movies is delightful!. For the most part, he seems
quite at home and believable to me. I agree with Derek and Joe about
the Ave Maria scene in Serenade. If there is one expression that is
worth a thousand words, it is his when he looks at Juana at the end of
singing this wonderful prayer. To me, he seems to be saying that the
weight of the world has been lifted from his shoulders...
Mario had a natural comedic talent as well. For example, the scene in
TONO when he fumbles around trying to get out of that chair as his
cane keeps getting stuck at all angles. It makes me laugh each time
although I've seen it a thousand times!
There's no doubt in my mind that Mario had the potential to be a fine
actor. I'm just now getting ready to drive up to Pennsylvania for the
day, so I will think more about this topic and add more comments
later....stay tuned.....
> > >www.mlhart.com--describes Mario as "delicious in [For the First
quite at home and believable to me. I agree with Derek and Joe about
the Ave Maria scene in Serenade. If there is one expression that is
worth a thousand words, it is his when he looks at Juana at the end of
singing this wonderful prayer. To me, he seems to be saying that the
weight of the world has been lifted from his shoulders...
Mario had a natural comedic talent as well. For example, the scene in
TONO when he fumbles around trying to get out of that chair as his
cane keeps getting stuck at all angles. It makes me laugh each time
although I've seen it a thousand times!
There's no doubt in my mind that Mario had the potential to be a fine
actor. I'm just now getting ready to drive up to Pennsylvania for the
day, so I will think more about this topic and add more comments
later....stay tuned.....
> > > Time], almost playing himself, and seemingly more comfortable in front
> > > of the cameras.")
>
> > > Lanza's friend Barry Nelson told Armando that Mario never felt secure
> > > as an actor. This is entirely understandable when you think that he
> > > went from having no acting appearance (apart from his two operatic
> > > roles on stage) straight into playing leading roles in films. Who
> > > wouldn't be insecure in front of the cameras when a whole film is
> > > riding on your talents? What Lanza really needed in order to develop
> > > his skills and confidence as an actor was a director who could guide
> > > him -- and also tactfully insist on retakes whenever necessary.
>
> > > Speaking of which, Richard Thorpe, who directed him in The Great
> > > Caruso, was famous for making his movies as quickly as possible --
> > > reportedly doing only one take of each scene whenever possible. (James
> > > Mason later said that Thorpe's penchant for doing everything in single
> > > takes is the reason "we don't remember his films"!) Perhaps this
> > > explains the clumsiness of Mario's last scene in that film when he
> > > collapses before he stops singing :-)
>
> > > What do others here think of Lanza as an actor? Do you think he had
> > > the potential to improve, or was he always going to be an actor of
> > > limited ability? It'd be interesting to know what scenes from his
> > > films impressed people here (or didn't impress them, as the case may
> > > be!).- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
> > > of the cameras.")
>
> > > Lanza's friend Barry Nelson told Armando that Mario never felt secure
> > > as an actor. This is entirely understandable when you think that he
> > > went from having no acting appearance (apart from his two operatic
> > > roles on stage) straight into playing leading roles in films. Who
> > > wouldn't be insecure in front of the cameras when a whole film is
> > > riding on your talents? What Lanza really needed in order to develop
> > > his skills and confidence as an actor was a director who could guide
> > > him -- and also tactfully insist on retakes whenever necessary.
>
> > > Speaking of which, Richard Thorpe, who directed him in The Great
> > > Caruso, was famous for making his movies as quickly as possible --
> > > reportedly doing only one take of each scene whenever possible. (James
> > > Mason later said that Thorpe's penchant for doing everything in single
> > > takes is the reason "we don't remember his films"!) Perhaps this
> > > explains the clumsiness of Mario's last scene in that film when he
> > > collapses before he stops singing :-)
>
> > > What do others here think of Lanza as an actor? Do you think he had
> > > the potential to improve, or was he always going to be an actor of
> > > limited ability? It'd be interesting to know what scenes from his
> > > films impressed people here (or didn't impress them, as the case may
> > > be!).- Hide quoted text -
>
Sam
Mar 14, 2008, 3:28:31 PM3/14/08
to The Mario Lanza Forum
I have always enjoyed Mario's acting, except when he was a ham and
except when his lip synching was off. I would call him competent as an
actor and he had the potential to be very competent when directed
properly. There are wonderful examples in all of his films. In TMK,
when he is talking to Kathryn Grayson for the first time, I love it
when he tries to excuse himself by saying "You've got my pencil" That
scene is precious. In TONO, I always enjoy when he holds J. Carroll
Naish above his head in feigned anger and says "Uncle Nicky, I love
you". Priceless. In BYM, he does well when he confronts Paula Corday
and says something like "what did you say and why did you say it".
Just a perfect tone in his voice. In Serenade there are an abundance
of great moments. One standout is the way he grabs Sarita in the rain
and kisses her. Not a word is spoken; there is no need for dialogue.
In SHOR, you have to think harder to find memorable moments (though
the whole film is lighthearted fun). So I will pick one of the worst
moments...the strained look on Mario's face as he is "enjoying" the
helicopter ride. In FTFT, I enjoy Mario's reaction to Christa when she
loses her hearing after the operation and he says "No, no". Perfect.
There is also one of the hammiest ever moments in the film when he is
a room with his manager and Christa and says "I'll love you for the
rest of my life". He may have been drunk when he said those words, as
they are laughably awful. But I will end this little essay with a
great moment from GC. After Mario is told by Ann Blyth that she will
marry him regardless of her father's wishes, he yells excitedly "We
get married my friends" with just the right emotion. Well these
examples may not have been the best from each film, but they are
examples that always delight me! Now can anyone find a good example in
The Student Prince??!!
> > > >www.mlhart.com--describesMario as "delicious in [For the First
except when his lip synching was off. I would call him competent as an
actor and he had the potential to be very competent when directed
properly. There are wonderful examples in all of his films. In TMK,
when he is talking to Kathryn Grayson for the first time, I love it
when he tries to excuse himself by saying "You've got my pencil" That
scene is precious. In TONO, I always enjoy when he holds J. Carroll
Naish above his head in feigned anger and says "Uncle Nicky, I love
you". Priceless. In BYM, he does well when he confronts Paula Corday
and says something like "what did you say and why did you say it".
Just a perfect tone in his voice. In Serenade there are an abundance
of great moments. One standout is the way he grabs Sarita in the rain
and kisses her. Not a word is spoken; there is no need for dialogue.
In SHOR, you have to think harder to find memorable moments (though
the whole film is lighthearted fun). So I will pick one of the worst
moments...the strained look on Mario's face as he is "enjoying" the
helicopter ride. In FTFT, I enjoy Mario's reaction to Christa when she
loses her hearing after the operation and he says "No, no". Perfect.
There is also one of the hammiest ever moments in the film when he is
a room with his manager and Christa and says "I'll love you for the
rest of my life". He may have been drunk when he said those words, as
they are laughably awful. But I will end this little essay with a
great moment from GC. After Mario is told by Ann Blyth that she will
marry him regardless of her father's wishes, he yells excitedly "We
get married my friends" with just the right emotion. Well these
examples may not have been the best from each film, but they are
examples that always delight me! Now can anyone find a good example in
The Student Prince??!!
Joe Fagan
Mar 14, 2008, 3:48:37 PM3/14/08
to mario...@googlegroups.com
ahhhhhh yes, the" kiss in the rainstorm" ...almost forgot about that
one!!. You bring up an interesting point , Sam ,about the Student Prince.
( guess u did that tongue in cheek), but u know, there were NO outstanding
acting scenes as far as I can remember by Purdom. Vocally, Yes, as Mario was
on top of his form. Hmnnnnn, maybe Mario would have been equal to or
better than Purdom ?( a recognized actor). Interesting point!
one!!. You bring up an interesting point , Sam ,about the Student Prince.
( guess u did that tongue in cheek), but u know, there were NO outstanding
acting scenes as far as I can remember by Purdom. Vocally, Yes, as Mario was
on top of his form. Hmnnnnn, maybe Mario would have been equal to or
better than Purdom ?( a recognized actor). Interesting point!
Joe Fagan
Mar 15, 2008, 8:43:35 PM3/15/08
to The Mario Lanza Forum
You know the scene in Serenade where Mario wakes up ill in the
hotel....well, I have read someplace ( probably in a rag newspaper)
that the reason Mario looked so hung over in that scene was that he
*ACTUALLY* was, in real life~~~and the studio took advantage of it by
shooting the clip anyway!. This is probably nonsense, but I wonder if
anyone else ever herad, or read this account as well?
thanks, Joe
> > > > >www.mlhart.com--describesMarioas "delicious in [For the First
hotel....well, I have read someplace ( probably in a rag newspaper)
that the reason Mario looked so hung over in that scene was that he
*ACTUALLY* was, in real life~~~and the studio took advantage of it by
shooting the clip anyway!. This is probably nonsense, but I wonder if
anyone else ever herad, or read this account as well?
thanks, Joe
Derek McGovern
Mar 16, 2008, 12:38:55 AM3/16/08
to mario...@googlegroups.com
Hi Joe: That story is certainly news to me!
What I do wish, though, in the case of the scene that immediately
follows the one you've just described, is that Anthony Mann had not
chosen to film Lanza in such extreme close-up. I'm referring to the
shot in which we see Mario waking up after (presumably) weeks of being
delirious with malaria. Given that he's actually *heavier* than in the
preceding scene, the break in continuity is disconcerting. What's
more, you don't film a 260-pound leading man in close-up! The least
they could have done is give him a few days of beard growth to conceal
his weight -- and at the same time provide the story with a bit of
realism. (Or were audiences expected to assume that kind Sarita was
shaving Lanza every day while he was unconscious?!)
Come to think of it, a bearded Lanza for the Mexico scenes would have
worked well in the context of the story. Credit should go to Warners,
though, for having the bravery to film Lanza when he was so heavy.
They were taking quite a risk in terms of the box office; in fact, I
can't think of any other films from that period that featured romantic
leading men as overweight as Mario was here.
Message has been deleted
Derek McGovern
Mar 16, 2008, 5:50:24 PM3/16/08
to The Mario Lanza Forum
Sam wrote:
'In SHOR, you have to think harder to find memorable moments (though
Yes, Lanza does look ill at ease and distracted in the Seven Hills
helicopter scene. (In his awful book, Teitelbaum claims that Mario was
being hassled that day.) Mind you, he was probably wondering how on
earth anyone was going to take this scene seriously! I mean, a man
singing in a helicopter?!
Incidentally, it always amuses me how, at the end of this sequence, we
don't actually see Mario and co getting out of the helicopter once
it's supposedly landed in St. Peter's Square :-)
Lanza also looks strained and uncomfortable in the scene on board the
train (near the beginning of the film) when he's talking to the ticket
collector. Elsewhere in the film, though, there are a few scenes that
give him the opportunity to flex his acting muscles, and in which he
acquits himself well, e.g., the scene where he confronts Marisa/
Raphaela about her stealing.
It would be interesting to read the original script for this film --
the one that Lanza approved before he set out for Italy. Armando
mentions in his book that when Lanza arrived in Rome in May 1957, he
discovered to his dismay that the script had been changed, and much
for the worse.
'In SHOR, you have to think harder to find memorable moments (though
the whole film is lighthearted fun). So I will pick one of the worst
moments...the strained look on Mario's face as he is "enjoying" the
helicopter ride.'
moments...the strained look on Mario's face as he is "enjoying" the
Yes, Lanza does look ill at ease and distracted in the Seven Hills
helicopter scene. (In his awful book, Teitelbaum claims that Mario was
being hassled that day.) Mind you, he was probably wondering how on
earth anyone was going to take this scene seriously! I mean, a man
singing in a helicopter?!
Incidentally, it always amuses me how, at the end of this sequence, we
don't actually see Mario and co getting out of the helicopter once
it's supposedly landed in St. Peter's Square :-)
Lanza also looks strained and uncomfortable in the scene on board the
train (near the beginning of the film) when he's talking to the ticket
collector. Elsewhere in the film, though, there are a few scenes that
give him the opportunity to flex his acting muscles, and in which he
acquits himself well, e.g., the scene where he confronts Marisa/
Raphaela about her stealing.
It would be interesting to read the original script for this film --
the one that Lanza approved before he set out for Italy. Armando
mentions in his book that when Lanza arrived in Rome in May 1957, he
discovered to his dismay that the script had been changed, and much
for the worse.
Derek McGovern
Aug 31, 2008, 3:12:04 PM8/31/08
to The Mario Lanza Forum
In a new thread, Joe has just reintroduced the interesting topic of
Lanza's acting ability. I've taken the liberty of moving Joe's post
here, since we already have a thread devoted to this subject:
Lanza's acting ability. I've taken the liberty of moving Joe's post
here, since we already have a thread devoted to this subject:
I recently watched TGC and ,Again, I was struck by how good Lanza's
acting was.......very credible, indeed. Yet, it seems that even *this*
attribute was played down by his critics! I just don't get it.....the
bias seems to touch all aspects of anything_Lanza. True, he wasn't
exactly outstanding in some of his "fluff" movies .. ( who could have
been in such light fare ) , but I think he came across great in the
Great Caruso and Serenade.( I am equally certain he would have been
great in the Student Prince, as well). It makes you wonder if the
great gift to us of Lanza will ever be universally recognized?
--Joe
gary from N.S.
Sep 1, 2008, 7:10:36 PM9/1/08
to The Mario Lanza Forum
Hello..
T.G.C. and Serenade are my two favourites personally,and likely
because I think these two films show Mario at his best as far as his
acting. I have often thought that both Mario and Elvis could have been
developed into very good actors.
Both had extremely charismatic manners,and and handsome looks, that
the camera loved. Also, I feel both had an innate acting ability.Our
loss as fans,in that their acting careers did not grow.
Cheers
Gary
T.G.C. and Serenade are my two favourites personally,and likely
because I think these two films show Mario at his best as far as his
acting. I have often thought that both Mario and Elvis could have been
developed into very good actors.
Both had extremely charismatic manners,and and handsome looks, that
the camera loved. Also, I feel both had an innate acting ability.Our
loss as fans,in that their acting careers did not grow.
Cheers
Gary
Derek McGovern
Sep 1, 2008, 9:19:48 PM9/1/08
to The Mario Lanza Forum
Hi everyone: Since we've ended up with two threads on this subject
competing with each other, I've deleted one of them and have moved
Jan's, Michele's, and Thelma's posts from the other thread here:
Jan Hodges
Sep 1, 10:03 am
Joe wrote<
*this*
Attribute was played down by his critics! I just don't get it.....the
Bias seems to touch all aspects of anything_Lanza. True, he wasn't
Exactly outstanding in some of his "fluff" movies .. ( who could have
Been in such light fare ) , but I think he came across great in the
Great gift to us of Lanza will ever be universally recognized?"
Well said Joe, sure he was no Oscar winner but very competent with a
good director, and don't forget TONO where he showed a flair for
comedy. He and J Carrol Naish had some very funny moments.
Jan
******************************
Thelma
Sep 1, 3:23 pm
Mario was good enough in TONO to make me a fan for life. I enjoyed his
bubbling personality in that and it was the first time I heard him
sing. He was so joyful in that movie, it made you feel good. His voice
was and is the finest voice I've ever heard. I remember that I
couldn't believe what I was hearing.
******************
Michele
Sep 2, 12:47 am
Yes, I agree Mario was quite believable in all his films. TGC
particularly, I thought he was great. Can you think of any other tenor
who was around at that time who could had pulled off playing Enrico
Caruso and singing the part as well as Mario did? No you cannot. I
believe Jussi Bjorling was interested in playing the part but let's
face it Mario was tailor made for the role. Something that struck me
only just this week is his sensational first appearance in TMK. Have
wondered were there any other first time movie appearances by anyone
else who would compare with Mario. I have to admit that I preferred
him in the lighter roles but I agree he was very good in "Serenade"
considering he was a singer and not supposed to be an actor.
Regrettably I feel he will never be acknowledged for the great tenor
he was. While he did appear on stage doing 2 performances of Pinkerton
in "Butterfly" that's not enough for the so-called "experts".
competing with each other, I've deleted one of them and have moved
Jan's, Michele's, and Thelma's posts from the other thread here:
Jan Hodges
Sep 1, 10:03 am
Joe wrote<
"I recently watched TGC and ,Again, I was struck by how good Lanza's
Acting was.......very credible, indeed. Yet, it seems that even
*this*
Attribute was played down by his critics! I just don't get it.....the
Bias seems to touch all aspects of anything_Lanza. True, he wasn't
Exactly outstanding in some of his "fluff" movies .. ( who could have
Been in such light fare ) , but I think he came across great in the
Great Caruso and Serenade.( I am equally certain he would have been
Great in the Student Prince, as well). It makes you wonder if the
Great gift to us of Lanza will ever be universally recognized?"
Well said Joe, sure he was no Oscar winner but very competent with a
good director, and don't forget TONO where he showed a flair for
comedy. He and J Carrol Naish had some very funny moments.
Jan
******************************
Thelma
Sep 1, 3:23 pm
Mario was good enough in TONO to make me a fan for life. I enjoyed his
bubbling personality in that and it was the first time I heard him
sing. He was so joyful in that movie, it made you feel good. His voice
was and is the finest voice I've ever heard. I remember that I
couldn't believe what I was hearing.
******************
Michele
Sep 2, 12:47 am
Yes, I agree Mario was quite believable in all his films. TGC
particularly, I thought he was great. Can you think of any other tenor
who was around at that time who could had pulled off playing Enrico
Caruso and singing the part as well as Mario did? No you cannot. I
believe Jussi Bjorling was interested in playing the part but let's
face it Mario was tailor made for the role. Something that struck me
only just this week is his sensational first appearance in TMK. Have
wondered were there any other first time movie appearances by anyone
else who would compare with Mario. I have to admit that I preferred
him in the lighter roles but I agree he was very good in "Serenade"
considering he was a singer and not supposed to be an actor.
Regrettably I feel he will never be acknowledged for the great tenor
he was. While he did appear on stage doing 2 performances of Pinkerton
in "Butterfly" that's not enough for the so-called "experts".
Message has been deleted
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Derek McGovern
May 14, 2010, 5:45:57 AM5/14/10
to mario...@googlegroups.com
I thought I'd revive this old thread in light of a post earlier this
week on Opera-L:
http://listserv.bccls.org/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind1005B&L=OPERA-L&T=0&F=&S=&P=46419
Essentially, the writer takes critic Claudia Cassidy's comments about
"a multitude of finer points" eluding (the then 25-year-old) Lanza's
singing out of context and then goes on to use them to rubbish not
only his acting ability but the "very soul" of this "magnificent
mistake of nature":
"Watch Lanza in his films as he attempts to act and you will instantly
grasp the truth of his artistic shortcomings.
"He makes all the mistakes listed in the, imaginary, book of how not
to act, he walks from point to point in any given scene like a man who
knows exactly where he is going, but has no real reason for going
there, this is called "walking acting" and he was the master of it.
"He assumes that anger involves a measurable amount of shouting, that
joy requires a broad smile and that passion requires a stance and an
attitude to support it. This is also the reason why he grasps and
throttles certain words in the lyrics of a song or the words of an
aria. The word "hate" for instance requires a gnashing of teeth and a
strong aspirant at a loud volume, "love" requires a breathy treatment
unless it is passionate love, when it must receive the same treatment
as the word hate and so forth."
Comments, anyone?
week on Opera-L:
http://listserv.bccls.org/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind1005B&L=OPERA-L&T=0&F=&S=&P=46419
Essentially, the writer takes critic Claudia Cassidy's comments about
"a multitude of finer points" eluding (the then 25-year-old) Lanza's
singing out of context and then goes on to use them to rubbish not
only his acting ability but the "very soul" of this "magnificent
mistake of nature":
"Watch Lanza in his films as he attempts to act and you will instantly
grasp the truth of his artistic shortcomings.
"He makes all the mistakes listed in the, imaginary, book of how not
to act, he walks from point to point in any given scene like a man who
knows exactly where he is going, but has no real reason for going
there, this is called "walking acting" and he was the master of it.
"He assumes that anger involves a measurable amount of shouting, that
joy requires a broad smile and that passion requires a stance and an
attitude to support it. This is also the reason why he grasps and
throttles certain words in the lyrics of a song or the words of an
aria. The word "hate" for instance requires a gnashing of teeth and a
strong aspirant at a loud volume, "love" requires a breathy treatment
unless it is passionate love, when it must receive the same treatment
as the word hate and so forth."
Comments, anyone?
Joseph Fagan
May 14, 2010, 10:28:11 AM5/14/10
to mario...@googlegroups.com
I think this critic was a "mistake of nature"! Mario, in spite of his lack of experience, did a very good job acting....especially in The Great Caruso and Serenade. His other pics were too fluffy to show off acting ability ( even tho I did like BYM)
Message has been deleted
leeann
May 14, 2010, 5:57:15 PM5/14/10
to Mario Lanza, Tenor
I'll second Joe's comment about mistakes of nature.
Lanza not act? Well, that's just crazy talk :-).
This thread brings out so many great moments in Lanza movies and ideas
about why they were or weren't all they could be. I appreciate the
ideas Jana and Derek point out in the first posting here--there's so
much that could be said about Lanza as operatic dramatist vs movie
actor; good directorion vs expediently finishing a film; the traumas
and new directions film studios were going through around the time of
Lanza's films. Armando points out in American Tragedy that Lanza
worked in Hollywood during a time of great transition between "big
stars" and "big movies."
I ran across a comment about Lanza as actor in a book, The Star
Machine. I'd shared via email during the forum break. It's about how
Hollywood studios created stars in the 1930s and 1940s written by a
film studies professor, Jeanine Basinger. She is in her 70s now, and
has taught or worked with some of today's well-known directors and
actors. This book focuses on familiar names and how they negotiated--
or failed to negotiate--the film business during their time--Loretta
Young, Lana Turner, Errol Flynn, Deanna Durbin. It's not a gossip
book--although it's slickly written and her anecdotes reinforce her
thematic bias. She talks about how the studios looked at new actors
as products and as "types." Eleanor Powell, for example, was "the tap
dancer." Her comments about Lanza are brief, and it's too bad. If
she'd looked farther and dug just a bit deeper, she might well have
found him to be an good example of broader ideas she was conveying.
She writes
"...the studio was looking for a male star to sing opposite their
freshly devleoped 'operatic' singer, Kathryn Grayson. MGM saw right
away Lanza could be perfect even though he had no acting experience
and was too rough-edged to appear in movies directly based on real
operas.
"
MGM knew that he would, of course sing--but what type was he going to
be? He looked like a truck driver. Voila! ...
"...The studio solved the Lanza problem by realizing his "type" was
never going to be anything but "great loud singer." They did not need
to look any further. There was not going to be any nuance. The studio
was smart enough to accept this and market him that way. A Lanza role
could be anything or nothing, because all he really had to do was
sing...Mario Lanza was predefined by nature; all the machine had to do
was find him, recognize his type, and use it." (p 83) Best, Lee Ann
Lanza not act? Well, that's just crazy talk :-).
This thread brings out so many great moments in Lanza movies and ideas
about why they were or weren't all they could be. I appreciate the
ideas Jana and Derek point out in the first posting here--there's so
much that could be said about Lanza as operatic dramatist vs movie
actor; good directorion vs expediently finishing a film; the traumas
and new directions film studios were going through around the time of
Lanza's films. Armando points out in American Tragedy that Lanza
worked in Hollywood during a time of great transition between "big
stars" and "big movies."
I ran across a comment about Lanza as actor in a book, The Star
Machine. I'd shared via email during the forum break. It's about how
Hollywood studios created stars in the 1930s and 1940s written by a
film studies professor, Jeanine Basinger. She is in her 70s now, and
has taught or worked with some of today's well-known directors and
actors. This book focuses on familiar names and how they negotiated--
or failed to negotiate--the film business during their time--Loretta
Young, Lana Turner, Errol Flynn, Deanna Durbin. It's not a gossip
book--although it's slickly written and her anecdotes reinforce her
thematic bias. She talks about how the studios looked at new actors
as products and as "types." Eleanor Powell, for example, was "the tap
dancer." Her comments about Lanza are brief, and it's too bad. If
she'd looked farther and dug just a bit deeper, she might well have
found him to be an good example of broader ideas she was conveying.
She writes
"...the studio was looking for a male star to sing opposite their
freshly devleoped 'operatic' singer, Kathryn Grayson. MGM saw right
away Lanza could be perfect even though he had no acting experience
and was too rough-edged to appear in movies directly based on real
operas.
"
MGM knew that he would, of course sing--but what type was he going to
be? He looked like a truck driver. Voila! ...
"...The studio solved the Lanza problem by realizing his "type" was
never going to be anything but "great loud singer." They did not need
to look any further. There was not going to be any nuance. The studio
was smart enough to accept this and market him that way. A Lanza role
could be anything or nothing, because all he really had to do was
sing...Mario Lanza was predefined by nature; all the machine had to do
was find him, recognize his type, and use it." (p 83) Best, Lee Ann
Derek McGovern
Jul 19, 2010, 6:54:48 AM7/19/10
to mario...@googlegroups.com
Hi Lee Ann: I can't believe I forgot to comment on this post of yours from May.
Ms. Basinger's comments are certainly a generalization! For one thing,
"great loud singer" hardly describes Lanza's role in Because You're
Mine, and certainly not The Student Prince. In fact, the only film it
really applies to -- and even then, only up to a point -- is his
boorish fisherman Pepe Duvall in Toast of New Orleans.
As for Lanza's "type," Basinger misses the point that there was, in
fact, no such thing! Where else in the history of 20th century cinema
is there anyone remotely similar to his screen persona? He defies
convenient pigeonholing.
I'll have more to say in a few days! :-)
Cheers
Derek
Derek McGovern
Apr 18, 2011, 9:05:46 PM4/18/11
to mario...@googlegroups.com
These two posts from The Great Caruso on DVD discussion have given me an excuse to revive this interesting thread. I'll post some comments later; in the meantime, feel free to jump into the discussion, anyone!
First, Armando wrote that,
Then Lee Ann wrote:
First, Armando wrote that,
I’d like to comment on Mario’s acting. I’ve done some acting in my younger days and all I can tell you is that if you haven’t had at least some basic training (and I didn’t ) it’s a hell of a lot more difficult than one might think. The secret of acting, in my opinion, is to come across as natural and genuine as possible, and I think this is precisely what Lanza’s acting conveys, not only in The Great Caruso, but also in all his first four films. Believe me, it can be quite daunting when you are standing there in front of a camera trying to deliver lines and emote at the same time in a reasonably convincing manner.
There are things that Lanza does in his last three movies that I don’t like but I cannot fault his performance in The Great Caruso.
Then Lee Ann wrote:
Dear Armando and Derek, The subject about Lanza's acting ability always seems controversial and rather hard to sum up. Just briefly, it seems to me that there are great actors born to do so as Lanza was born to sing. And give them any role, any director, any playwright, and their abilities shine through even if conditions are less than ideal. And then there are actors who do certain kinds of roles well--perhaps drama, but not comedy; stage, but not screen, vice versa and etcetera. Lanza, I think, falls into that latter category, that of acting certain kinds of roles in certain kinds of situations and perhaps even certain parts of the script of an entire movie quite well. In fact, more than quite well--totally engagingly as the focal point of the movie--and not just because of star billing. And it's quite amazing, given the conditions you all have pointed to--bad scripts, limited dramatic coaching, one-take directors, studio deadlines. But there are rough patches, undoubtedly in part because of those limitations.
Does it seem reasonable to project, though, that his acting talents were made for the operatic stage, for that unique combination of dramatic ability and musicality that represents the pinnacle of operatic performance? Lee Ann
Derek McGovern
Apr 25, 2011, 7:15:19 AM4/25/11
to mario...@googlegroups.com
Great posts, Lee Ann and Armando.
I think Lanza did amazingly well with his acting, all things considered. When he started out in films, according to Keenan Wynn, he was assigned to "dramatic coaches who couldn't have directed you to the bathroom." Yet for a virtual beginner to acting in his first movie, he never embarrasses himself -- quite a feat when you're appearing onscreen alongside the likes of Ethel Barrymore (or even Keenan Wynn, who was no slouch either in the acting department).
While I agree with Armando that Mario's at his most natural and convincing in his first four films, ironically enough it's in the two films where his acting is the most uneven -- For the First Time and (especially) Serenade -- that I find him moving as an actor. That says something to me about his innate talent for acting. As for his inconsistent performances in those two films, I suspect that he was left largely to his own devices in For the First Time -- and I'm sure he was in Seven Hills! -- while in Serenade I think there were any number of reasons, e.g. his long absence from the screen and the pressure he would have felt to prove himself in his comeback picture. Then there was the convoluted plot and mixed bag of a script, which never really gave his character a chance to shine, plus a director who -- presumably distracted by the charms of Sarita Montiel, with whom he'd become smitten -- put in an effort below his usual high standard.
While viewed in isolation, Serenade suggests that Lanza's acting talents best belonged on the operatic stage, as Roger W. Brown argues in his interesting 1956 article "Tenor Will Out: The Metamorphosis of Mario Lanza," I feel that the earlier films -- and, to a certain extent, For the First Time -- prove that he could be quite comfortable in front of the cameras.
Cheers
Derek
I think Lanza did amazingly well with his acting, all things considered. When he started out in films, according to Keenan Wynn, he was assigned to "dramatic coaches who couldn't have directed you to the bathroom." Yet for a virtual beginner to acting in his first movie, he never embarrasses himself -- quite a feat when you're appearing onscreen alongside the likes of Ethel Barrymore (or even Keenan Wynn, who was no slouch either in the acting department).
While I agree with Armando that Mario's at his most natural and convincing in his first four films, ironically enough it's in the two films where his acting is the most uneven -- For the First Time and (especially) Serenade -- that I find him moving as an actor. That says something to me about his innate talent for acting. As for his inconsistent performances in those two films, I suspect that he was left largely to his own devices in For the First Time -- and I'm sure he was in Seven Hills! -- while in Serenade I think there were any number of reasons, e.g. his long absence from the screen and the pressure he would have felt to prove himself in his comeback picture. Then there was the convoluted plot and mixed bag of a script, which never really gave his character a chance to shine, plus a director who -- presumably distracted by the charms of Sarita Montiel, with whom he'd become smitten -- put in an effort below his usual high standard.
While viewed in isolation, Serenade suggests that Lanza's acting talents best belonged on the operatic stage, as Roger W. Brown argues in his interesting 1956 article "Tenor Will Out: The Metamorphosis of Mario Lanza," I feel that the earlier films -- and, to a certain extent, For the First Time -- prove that he could be quite comfortable in front of the cameras.
Cheers
Derek
Barnabas Nemeth
Apr 25, 2011, 9:02:23 AM4/25/11
to mario...@googlegroups.com
Mario played the roles very naturally in his first three films, especially in the Great Caruso. However, I feel he has partly overacted sometimes even in the Serenade and in his next movies. From this point of view and from musical pespectives as well, for me perhaps the Seven Hills of Rome was the least successful movie. Sorry, this my impression. Even though, all his movies have been my favourites.
Barnabas
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