Thoughts about the M2 from M2 owners wanted

[KeithA]

I have narrowed down my search for a 3D printer to just a few of which the M2 is one of the front runners.  I have seen may opinions spread across the web on the M2 many good and some bad but it seems as though a certain amount of them are from people who have no practical experience with the printer.  I am looking for actual users to help me decide.  Can you please tell me what made you choose the M2 and your thoughts after purchase both good and bad.  Thanks

[Bryan Boettcher]

You're going to get biased answers on this list. We should instead focus on making sure you have the facts and can make an informed decision.  What negatives were you seeing?  They may be from older revisions that aren't an issue for new ones.

On Mar 29, 2014 11:24 AM, "KeithA" <keitha...@rlhellwig.com> wrote:

I have narrowed down my search for a 3D printer to just a few of which the M2 is one of the front runners.  I have seen may opinions spread across the web on the M2 many good and some bad but it seems as though a certain amount of them are from people who have no practical experience with the printer.  I am looking for actual users to help me decide.  Can you please tell me what made you choose the M2 and your thoughts after purchase both good and bad.  Thanks

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[Jin Choi]

My decision came down to features vs. price. The M2 is the cheapest printer that does not immediately run into the limits of its hardware. It has a heated bed, glass plate, can print PLA and ABS, has a solid steel frame, a proven extruder design, and can print at relatively high speeds. It does this at the lowest price of similarly capable machines. Cheaper machines exist, but are generally plywood construction or PLA only or some such thing to limit costs. More expensive machines exist, but the only thing I find myself missing is an enclosed chamber (and any machine that offers that other than those by MakerBot find themselves at risk of litigation) and dual extruders, which can be added on.

The M2 is (relatively) cheap and mechanically solid. It does require tuning and fiddling to get the best out of it, but it is more flexible than something like the Afinia.

[Tim]

I chose the M2 (I purchased mine over a year ago) because it was the most solid-looking and intuitive design of all the ones I looked at.  It is based on the RepRap, so all the electronics design and firmware is open-source (you'll see a lot of people on this group talking about firmware tweaks).  The only downsides I found were all strictly related to the time at which I purchased my printer---there were long lead times and the M2 design was new, so there was not much information about it at all.  Almost everything was either on the MakerGear website or on this group.  I can say that I've been using my M2 for over a year and it has always been the perfect printer for me.  It is solid, robust, and it makes great prints.  I have had almost no maintenance issues (the only one or two I could mention wouldn't be relevant, because those issues have been fixed on the newer M2s).  The support from MakerGear and the additional support from this group is unsurpassed, and I really mean that.  I know that MakerGear has other things up their sleeve for the future, but I think that the M2 is a design that is not going to be obsolete for a while.  You can't go wrong with an M2.

[Tim]

In response to Bryan's comment:  I don't think posts on this group are particularly biased.  Clearly, there's a lot of love for the M2 here, but it's justified!  Problems with the M2 are discussed on this group as well, so gotchas do tend to get outed.  The nice thing about the group is that where ever there is a problem or a challenge, somebody's working on it, and posting solutions back to the group.  Not to mention that Rick from MakerGear is constantly chiming in on on the group as well, a level of involvement that is rare (maybe unprecedented) but very, very welcome.

[Toby]

I've been wanting an affordable 3d printer for many years.  What I saw in the reprap world didn't seem robust enough for my purposes. The M2 was the first one I found that looked viable in terms of being able to print decent sized objects without becoming mired in endless hardware/software issues.  I liked the all metal construction, the integration with Simplify3D, and the fact that the discussions in this group were all about how to get better prints, not how to get any print at all.

The price was a little higher than some alternatives, but not much, and significantly less for others with the same quality construction.  For me it was a big win having confidence that I would be up and making decent quality prints very quickly.  I was not disappointed in that regard and I'm not aware of anyone who is.

And as many people keep saying, the support is unbelievable.  Both from Makergear and this group.  I think you can get a good sense of that by lurking here for a week or two and comparing it to the user group for any other printer you are thinking of buying.  If you can get the same level of construction, print quality and support at a lower price, then buy it.

As for downsides, there are two that come to mind: The documentation is not very good for someone buying a fully constructed M2 who is not already familiar with 3D printer hardware.  I can't speak to the documentation for the kit form, but in the case of the pre-built M2, I had some frustration getting comfortable with the basics of where things were, what they did, and how to adjust them when I needed to.  I think it's likely that if you buy an M2 you will have to ask for help at some point .  But I got all the help I needed from this board, and if you are already comfortable with hardware like this then you may not even have to ask for help. 

The other downside is more nebulous.  The consumer 3D printing world is changing rapidly, with lower cost printers coming out that might be comparable in quality to the M2.  To my knowledge, none of them are proven at the moment, but there are some that may just do it.  I'm watching them with interest because at some point I'm going to want a second printer.  But for a first printer, the M2 was the perfect choice for me.  If I was new the market, I would still go with the M2 as the best way to get into 3d printing.

You can also find several more reviews on the Amazon page of the M2.

[KeithA]

Thanks for your response...

Well I am new to all of this so at this point I only know what I have read and realize opinions vary and that there are "fan boys" that back a product no matter if it is good or not.  I have found most reviews favorable and the view of the Company seems universally good.  I have just seen multiple postings that there are several "better" printers for the money.  I have also noticed that since the M2 has been awhile a lot of the reviews were based around when it came out.  There are multiple companies that have release updated or new models in that time frame that are being reviewed currently and they mostly compared to  new or upcoming printers.  I am sure there have been updates to the M2 as I have seen it mentioned but it is unclear to me if any of these newer models out there offer something better for the price. Do you feel there is anything missing on the M2?  I don't have practical experience with 3D printers so I don't know how essential one feature is over the next. I guess when it comes to facts you first have to figure out what is important here are some things that come to mind for me (in no particular order). How does the M2 do in these categories?

1.  reliability - Does it break down, need excessive maintenance or repair?

2.  customer support / company reputation - Have you been happy with the tech support you have received?

3.  quality/precision of prints - I have seen much written about this but I haven't determine what values are "state of the art"  in the M2's price range

4.  consistency of prints - Once fine tuned are print repeatable without a lot of fuss?

5.  speed of prints - is it slow, fast or in between?

6.  ease of use - Do you have to be a master of all things 3D to have success using it?

7.  features - Missing anything or is there something you wish it had?

8.  community support - I think I know the answer to this one :)

9.  upgradability - Does the design lend itself to addons, updates and enhancements?

10.  amount and frequency of "tweaking" - how much time is required to keep printing things of high quality?

11.  components - is it outdated?

Did I miss anything that is an important items to compare/consider when purchasing a 3D Printer?

Thanks

[Tim]

I'll address a few of these:

(1) Reliability:  It's a machine with moving parts, and those moving parts are worked hard, so yeah, things break once in a while.  My extruder motor mount cracked open (I glued it, still using the same one), and my heated bed connector broke and smoked (I resoldered it, then designed and printed a splint to keep it from happening again.  The root cause was fixed by MakerGear some time ago).  I would compare it to my espresso machine:  equally finicky, but designed with "no user serviceable parts" (I service them anyway).  The M2 is clearly designed with "all user serviceable parts".  I have not yet had to replace any parts, but for those who have, those posts on the group tend to be short three-parters:  a) User:  I have a problem.  b) MakerGear:  Please call us right away (often posted within minutes after (a)).  c) (posted a couple of days later) User:  MakerGear mailed me a new part and I'm happy now.

(3) Quality of prints:  I've been satisfied, but some people who post to this group have experience with other 3D printers and can address the relative merits of the M2 vs. other machines.  The frame of the M2 is very sturdy, which gives it a definite edge in print quality.  Other than that, the extruder, motors, firmware, etc., are comparable to what you will find on other printers with 0.35mm nozzles and 1.75mm filament.  Quality of prints most often starts with the design.  For example, the M2 will not print a thin vertical cylinder well.  If it prints at all, it will be very brittle.  But neither will any other filament printer.  It's just something that filament extruders don't handle well.

(4) Consistency of prints:  I've found the M2 to be remarkably consistent.  A few weeks ago I printed a set of replacement parts for the faucets in my house, four of which were broken.  I took out the broken part, measured it every which way with calipers, designed a new one, and the first one off the M2 fit perfectly.  After tweaking the support structures a bit, I printed four in a row, exactly alike.  I pulled each one off the printer, ripped the support structure out with a pair of pliers, then it went straight into the faucet handle and the sink was fixed in minutes.

(5) Speed:  Filament printing is not the fastest thing in the world.  Again, the sturdy frame of the M2 allows it to go faster than many other models, but I don't think there's a whole lot of difference.  There will still be eight-hour prints.

(6) Ease of use:  It's not a Xerox.  Nor is it exactly "plug and play".  Expect to level the bed with allen wrenches often, and oil and grease various parts on a regular basis.  However, you can be as passive or agressive with this as you like.  Stick with PLA filament from MakerGear or other high-quality suppliers, and you'll find it generally easy to take care of.  Start using novel or exotic filaments, or buy the discount stuff, and you may find yourself posting questions to this group on how to clean up a clogged extruder.

(9) Upgradability:  MakerGear has already rolled out some upgrades for people who bought their machines a year ago or more, and hints at more to come (such as the much-anticipated dual extruder).  But the M2 not so mix-and-match as the more traditional RepRap machines.  Mostly that's a good thing.  I want to spend most of my time printing stuff, not spend most of my time tuning and fixing the machine.

[Haasen]

2.  customer support / company reputation:     The customer support is great if there is a problem they have the solution even the warranty is great.

7.  features: There only two things I would like to get first is Dual Extruder MG is working on it already should be released soon, second feature is the heated chamber but that will take another few years.

10.  amount and frequency of "tweaking": It may take awhile until you get the M2 tweaked in for perfect prints like the once below. But good and nice looking prints is what you get as soon as you assembled the M2. At least in my case.

11.  components: MG makes it really affordable to stay updated even the new Dual Extruder will be compatible with the actual Hot End.

The below pictures show the M2 filament drive on the left printed on a FORTUS250 on the right printed on M2 as far as I can tell the quality is fabulous.

 

Cheers Michael

[Tracy Potter]

Hi

I used to use rapid proto machines about 10 years ago and they were super expensive.  When I went looking for one that was affordable for me I looked at all of them and they were all wood or plast designed and the only competitor I felt was the makerbot but it was more money.  I ordered the M2 and it has been a good machine.  It took a little tinkering on setups and bed leveling but that was just my inexperience.  I am pretty happy with it.  Basically if you order one make sure you level the bed and set the distance from nozzle to bed and use aquanet

TP

[Dale Reed]

Keith,

My take:

1.  reliability - MakerGear runs these in a production environment to make parts for M2s.  I've had mine a year.  I don't run it as hard as most people, but I tend to dink with things.  All critical components, motors, etc., are in great shape.  Belts are snug, bearings are good, etc.  My biggest problem has been I tend to stick the M3 hex wrench in a fan while it's running, so I replace the fan.  I've been experimenting with some odd filaments and had some clogs -- you get what you pay for with filament.  The other problem was one Tim had -- flexing of wires at the back of the bed.  It's not made with "superflex" industrial grade wire.  (If it were, it would be twice the price).  MakerGear targets the maker market more than the production market, I think.  But they use them in a production environment and so they find out what the issues are and keep improving the design.  

2.  customer support / company reputation - Support is BEYOND LEGENDARY.  I have witnessed postings on this group (not the IRC they monitor, mind you, but a google group forum) answered within two minutes by Rick, Josh, and the team at MakerGear.  This is at 9 at night US Eastern time.  I have seen people post here about a problem with a part.  The next post is "I just got an e-mail from Karen -- the part will ship in the morning."  I live near MG HQ in Cleveland, and have met Rick and Josh and Karen and Ivan and the whole crew.  They graciously make time for me (a little) when I visit.  Rick and Josh and (why can't I remember his name? DANG.) came and presented a technical program for the Cleveland section of a technical society -- and stayed and answered a lot of questions.  THERE IS NO BETTER SUPPORT THAN MAKERGEAR SUPPORT.  Not possible.  Unless they develop a 4D printer so they can go back in time and fix your problem before you find it.  Read what people say in Amazon reviews of the M2 if you don't believe me.  MakerGear is NOT MakerBot -- and that's a good thing.  They're not out to be the next Apple.  They exist to provide the best products for Makers.

3.  quality/precision of prints - The software and firmware is not yet capable of running the M2 to its potential yet.  That said, there are some characteristics you need to be aware of when trying to get top quality prints.  The frame is solid, the bed is solid, the motion rails are very good (but not hyper-precise ones that cost 10 times as much).  It's sturdy, but if you crank up the acceleration and speed when printing, the bed supports do flex a tad, leaving "ghosting" near corners.  That said, this machine is not an A-frame rick-rack made from threaded rod from Home Depot.  It's based on a heavy gauge steel frame.  If you dial it in and get a good print, you will get a good print the next time and the next time and the next time.  I designed a quick LCD bezel for a friend at work, measuring the display unit with calipers and creating a frame around those dimensions.  First time out, using OpenSCAD and Simplify3D, the bezel fit perfectly.  So did the next 10 I made.

4.  consistency of prints - See last sentences of item immediately above.

5.  speed of prints - You can run this machine fast enough to shake the table under it pretty well.  (I'm using an antique walnut desk with 1/4 inch glass top, so not an issue for me.  In a way, it's kind of like "draft mode" -- if you crank up the speed and acceleration and layer thickness, you can run test prints and get the part worked out.  As stated above, you'll get some artifacts.  Slow it a bit, tune down the accel and you'll get some pretty precise stuff.  Best to think of it as with an ink-jet printer.  Draft mode, Normal mode, Best mode.  Use what works for you.

6.  ease of use - Takes some play and adjusting parameters and tuning.  Right now, that's pretty true of any 3D printer.  S3D has some good defaults, and people are posting better and better profiles, so I expect this to improve as software improves.  Bed preparation is the current "area in need of development" -- nobody has perfected the print bed material so the part sticks perfectly while you're printing and releases perfectly when you're done.  I use hairspray, some use glue stick, some just print PLA to the heated glass and have a routine for cleaning.  The filament is a bit easier to deal with --- feed it in, extrude a little manually to get set, then let 'er rip.  It's not like "put in a cartridge and some paper and hit print".  I expect this to improve as software improves.  The M2 is designed for OPEN use -- use pronterface, slic3r, S3D, your favorite CAD package.  Does not require proprietary software.  Flexibility has plusses and minuses.

7.  features - The M2 has a great hot end, great motion components, a heated bed, all the stuff you need to run a pretty good variety of materials.  But people add all kinds of things to the basic unit.  Camera mounts, tool holders, lighting bars, different fan mounts / shrouds / guards, enclosures, etc. You get everything you need, nothing you don't need, and a tool to make whatever you want.  Search MakerGear M2 on Thingiverse and you'll get the idea.

8.  community support - Active, creative, awesome.  No big egos, lots of willingness to help.  BEST.  FORUM.   EVER.

9.  upgradability - See response to #7.  Also note that the M2 frame has several "unused" convenient screwholes for mounting stuff they never thought of!  MakerGear has done several upgrades, and more are coming -- especially in the extruder area of the machine.

10.  amount and frequency of "tweaking" - how much time is required to keep printing things of high quality?  A lot less than most of us spend!  Once I level the bed, I don't have to re-level it until I swap out the extruder.  That's a lot less tweaking than most.

11.  components - is it outdated?  The design is not the latest "sexy" black box with blue LEDs and smoked acrylic and other unnecessary stuff.  It's a GOOD design, better than the current state of software.  It will be a good design for a while yet.  This isn't a Ferrari --- it's a Camry.  The framework will keep getting better stuff put on it.  Don't let the "simple" frame fool you.  It's solid and flexible.

Now..... I haven't had other 3D printers.  I researched a bit before buying.  I'm lucky living five miles from MakerGear HQ, as I was able to go see it and meet the team.  Submitted my order that evening and haven't looked back and haven't needed to consider anything else.  It does what I need, it's top quality, it's fun, it's backed by great people who care.

So I gushed a little.  So sue me.

Dale

On Saturday, March 29, 2014 2:18:04 PM UTC-4, KeithA wrote:

Thanks for your response...

[KeithA]

Thanks for all of your replies.  It is now clear that I was on track putting this machine on the top of my list.

[Tony Shulthise]

My first printer was a CubeX Duo. It was terrible. It was broken more often than it ran. Print quality was poor. The rate of failed prints was close to 90%.

My second printer, which I still own, was a Lulzbot TAZ. It is much better than the CubeX but I still had a much higher failure rate than I was willing to accept. Print quality is good for some parts and very poor for others. Better but still not good enough.

I bought the M2 after reading a couple raving reviews. I was also drawn to the higher quality components like the steel frame and recirculating ball linear guides. When it came I was so happy to see that I could have a print fail rate under 20% and the print quality was better than I expected. I've been very pleased with this printer. So much so that I'm letting a friend use my TAZ because I found myself using the M2 100% of the time.

That said, there are several very good machines out now. I don't know which one I would choose if I were going to buy a new printer today.

I will say that the support in this forum is outstanding. I think it's safe to say that 90% of the issues posted get resolved within a day or two. I feel comfortable exploring any mods I care to dream up for my M2 because I know I can get whatever support I need to pull them off.

I always tell people to read the forums for any printer they are considering buying. The really bad machines and companies with poor support will have a lot of posts that reflect these things.

So far, Makergear has been excellent to work with. They have gone beyond my expectations and that is pretty uncommon in my experience.

I don't think you will find any printers that have as good of an overall support system as the M2.

Dual extruders and self leveling systems are the two advanced features you don't get with the M2 but it's pretty easy to manually level the bed and I rarely see anyone post two material or two color prints. My guess is that the print failure rate might be much higher when trying dual heads.

Read through a few of the threads on this forum and I think you will see that this support system may be a deciding factor.

Good luck with your search!

[jimc]

if i had something additional to add to tony, dale and everyone elses review i would but its basically all been covered. i cant agree with what everyone else said anymore.

just remember that no 3d printer is perfect right now. almost all of them are basically the same components and arent really complex. one controller board, some wires connecting a few stepper motors, linear bearings or slides and a hot end. the basic differences from machine to machine is how rigid the frame is and quality of the extruder. the makergear extruder is proven and has been around for a long time. long before even the m2 was thought of. i find it accurate, reliable and very easily maintainable. as for the frame....well its all steel. cant get much more rigid than that. the bed has some flex with everything being mounted on one slide but its nothing that would cause any issues other than some light ghosting which is mostly controllable with lower acceleration settings. the rest of the stuff like the rambo board and steppers are all top quality stuff and the same as used on most other printers. the rambo board though is a high end board. ive had my m2 for 8 mos and when i was searching for a printer it was very important to me to buy from a company here in the US. makes shipping of anything i need like parts etc quick and easy. i also wanted to buy from a company that was stable, been around awhile, had a good reputation, great support and just downright good people. i didnt want to go anywhere near a really big company that i will leave unnamed, where i was just a number and its all about sales. no matter what printer you buy you will always have a learning curve with this and spend alot of time figuring everything out, tweaking and changing settings.....basically learning to 3d print so  community, company and support are huge especially with your first printer. one thing i can say is that part of it......you will not get better anywhere else.

let us know what you decide. also if you dont mind sharing the printers you have narrowed down your list to maybe some members here have used before or know something about, they can help you or chime in.

[david b]

I have owned several other machines and nothing compares to the quality and ease of use of this machine.  Like i have said many times to many people i have talked to about 3d printing, I wish i would have bought this 3d printer from the start!

[KeithA]

Thanks for all of your replies,  it certainly helped me with my decision on what to purchase......  a Makergear M2!!  I am sure I will have a lot of questions for you helpful experts soon.

Thanks Again!!

On Saturday, March 29, 2014 9:12:43 AM UTC-7, KeithA wrote:

[jimc]

hey keith, thats great news and welcome to our group. when you get the printer up and running feel free to join in and ask questions.

[Toby]

Nice!  As a fellow M2-er said to me after I got mine: "Welcome to the fun."

[Dale Reed]

IIRC, that would be me.   Keith:   WELCOME TO THE FUN!!!

Dale

[Toby]

I thought so but I wasn't 100% certain :-)

[Toby]

I'd love to see more comparison prints between the Fortus and the M2.  Black PLA often photographs poorly, but I think we can do even better on the M2.  Which slicer are you using?

[John Barnhardt]

Ok, just a quick post from a new addition to the ranks of the MakerGear owner's club - my M2 literally just arrived at my office (it will be living at home), just about exactly 2.5 weeks after I ordered it directly from them. Rick answered my handful of pre-purchase questions quickly and professionally, the time from order to shipment was less than the web site stated and less than they initially estimated, and shipping was by 2-day Priority which was quite a surprise (I expected sloooow surface delivery). So from an initial customer interaction standpoint, MakerGear has been superb.

This is my 2nd 3D printer. My first is/was a Makibox A6, which I've owned for about 3 months. It's a $300 printer that is pretty good for the price, but had an incredibly long window from initial crowdfunding to delivery (2 years!) and has a number of issues/compromises, particularly with PLA (can't really print with it successfully, at least with the current hot end). It's also not easily modifiable because of the compact design that is quite integrated in order to keep cost as low as possible. In any case, for $300 it's hard to complain, but I quickly found myself sucked in enough to the world of 3D printing that I became frustrated by the Makibox's limitations and inconsistency. I began to look for printer #2.

The very short story is that after a fairly extensive review of the market as it exists today, a lot of soul-searching to decide which features/capabilities were the most critical to me, and a number of spreadsheets that ranked contenders on numerous criteria, I determined that the M2 price stratum was the best place to buy in to the market for a 2nd printer. At that price, I really only had one other competitive machine, which is the Felix 3.0. It's actually quite similar to the M2 in terms of overall design approach, mechanics, etc. The price is also similar. But it doesn't have the long pedigree of 3D printing and support that MakerGear has, and coming from Europe it would involve additional shipping, support, replacement part, etc. overhead. When I started lurking on this forum, it really sealed the deal for me to purchase an M2.

I mention all of this to 1) note how good the initial purchase experience has been and 2) to note that while many have alluded in this thread to other "newer" printers that might challenge the M2 in terms of price vs. performance, my fairly extensive research indicates otherwise. I only found one competitive machine that seemed roughly equivalent all things considered, and it's not clear whether the support for that competitor is as robust as MakerGear's. It would be hard to imagine it's any better, particularly for customers in North America.

So I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this purchase will continue to delight me as I begin the assembly (I purchased the kit version). Looking forward to what I'm sure will be numerous lengthy exchanges with all of the fantastic folks on this forum. All the best,

-John in Seattle

[Haasen]

@Toby

I use S3D for M2 and Inside for Fortus. Inside is strata product and only works for there machines. The prints are made out of ABS but the interesting part is that I used jimc factory.file and just hit start. I run another part this week this time in blue.

Michael

[Dale Reed]

@John in Seattle,

There are a few other M2 owners up that way -- there's a recent topic here on who is where, possible get-togethers, etc.  Check that out and send PMs to those guys and go have a beer!

Your interaction with MakerGear and Rick is absolutely normal.  You'll find the people here to be helpful as well -- just ask.  We're all in this for different reasons, but we all keep our egos in check and get new fellow M2 users up to speed as best we can.  Most of us got ours in the last 12 months or so, so we're all pretty new and remember and appreciate the help we got here.

When you get going, post some pix of your prints -- there's a topic for that here that's been active in the last few weeks, or just start a new one.  And let us know if the M2 met your expectations based on your analysis.

WELCOME TO THE FUN!

Dale