PLA not adhering to bed

[John Plato]

Just got my brand-new M2 today.  Set it up with my son and we're attempting first print.  Everything seems to be working OK, but the PLA will not adhere to the bed at all.  It just clumps up on extruder tip.  Using Creator, selected M2 profile, had temp settings at 190/60 degrees (default) originally, have tried higher temps on both, but no luck.  Also tried blue painters tape - no luck.  Any advice?  One Amazon reviewer says that the temp settings really should be at 220/90.  The unit shipped with the test parts included, so it clearly has been able to print.

[Joshua Wills]

John, sorry that you're having a bit of trouble with that.  The Amazon reviewer is a bit off - while those settings may work for them, for PLA, we've been using 215*C/70*C with the V3B hotend; you should have received some information about that with your printer.

As for the PLA not sticking - how far away from the bed does the nozzle end up, if you click Z home in Creator?  If it's more than ~.2mm (about the thickness of a folded over piece of paper), your Z endstop may have shifted in shipping.  If the gap is larger than .2mm, let me know, and I'll walk you through checking the bed level and setting the Z endstop.

On Thu, Dec 26, 2013 at 3:22 PM, John Plato <jjp...@gmail.com> wrote:

Just got my brand-new M2 today.  Set it up with my son and we're attempting first print.  Everything seems to be working OK, but the PLA will not adhere to the bed at all.  It just clumps up on extruder tip.  Using Creator, selected M2 profile, had temp settings at 190/60 degrees (default) originally, have tried higher temps on both, but no luck.  Also tried blue painters tape - no luck.  Any advice?  One Amazon reviewer says that the temp settings really should be at 220/90.  The unit shipped with the test parts included, so it clearly has been able to print.

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[Ketil Froyn]

Hi John,

Have you leveled the bed? Make sure it is level, and verify that the nozzle is approximately a sheet of paper's thickness off the bed when you've homed z. Check the z endstop calibration video and the bed levelling video here:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBtJ0C9l7LjT04rBJPYOIfQ

If that still doesn't work, try removing the glass plate from the bed and wash it with dishwasher soap. Wipe it dry with clean paper towels and avoid getting fingerprints everywhere, you want it fat free. Replace and print after making sure all is level, PLA should stick nicely at this point.

You can also try increasing bed temp to 80 for the first layer for even better adhesion, but reduce it again from layer two and up. PLA starts going a bit jelly/rubber from 80 and up.

Good luck.

Cheers, Ketil

On 26 Dec 2013 22:09, "John Plato" <jjp...@gmail.com> wrote:

Just got my brand-new M2 today.  Set it up with my son and we're attempting first print.  Everything seems to be working OK, but the PLA will not adhere to the bed at all.  It just clumps up on extruder tip.  Using Creator, selected M2 profile, had temp settings at 190/60 degrees (default) originally, have tried higher temps on both, but no luck.  Also tried blue painters tape - no luck.  Any advice?  One Amazon reviewer says that the temp settings really should be at 220/90.  The unit shipped with the test parts included, so it clearly has been able to print.

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[Dale Reed]

John,

If you're still having trouble getting PLA to stick after getting the Z-home set, you should know that a lot of us are using "extra super hold" hairspray (Aqua Net in the purple can, or Suave or others -- look for multiple "polyxxxxx" ingredients on the label) sprayed on the cleaned glass for bed prep.  I use Windex on the glass.  Be sure to wipe if off with a clean cotton cloth before it dries so the crud ends up in the cloth and not just dried back on the glass.  I do a quick wipe with a microfiber cloth, then spray with hairspray.  I put on a light coat while the glass is cool, then heat it up to temperature and spray another coat.  Then start printing.

I've been printing MakerGear black PLA at 195 with the bed at 70 -- but that's with the V3 hot end.  With the newer hot end that you have, you'll have to bump the extruder up to about 205-215 as Josh mentioned.  But 70 should be about right for the bed.

As others have said:  getting the bed level (with respect to the extruder) and at the right starting gap is critical.  The extruder needs to 'moosh'  the plastic down on the glass.  I actually use a small negative Z-axis offset in S3D Creator to get the first layer down there where it should be.

Follow the bed leveling instructions to the letter and you'll be printing.  The M2 is a super quality machine and once you get it leveled, it will stay there.

Dale

[Patrick Smith]

If the bed is correctly leveled and the z stop or z home is correct I never have a problem on the hbp except for really small layer heights ! For me when I have needed more grip or for just a different texture on the bottom of a part the blue painters tape has been 100 % solid !

[Tony Shulthise]

I have this issue on my Lulzbot TAZ printer.  Sometimes it will stick and sometimes it won't.  What works on my M2 won't work on the TAZ.  I even use the same build surface and prep.  I just ordered a new hot end for it.  I know the bed is level and the Z-offset is correct and the extruder is calibrated correctly.  Hot end variation is the only thing that I can think of that might cause it to work occasionally but not stick 75% of the time.  Its so frustrating I haven't used that printer in a couple of months.

Try everything we've posted.  If you still have problems then it might be time to get Josh at MakerGear involved since the problem could be hardware.  

One other thing to consider is ambient environment.  You don't want ventilation ducts blowing near the printer.  That can cause lots of problems with prints.

[Tony Shulthise]

Oh... one other thing to consider...

I had a roll of PLA that wouldn't stick for anything once.  Try a different roll of PLA just to rule out the filament.  A bad roll of filament can cause you to pull all your hair out before you finally realize its not you or your printer!

[Ketil Froyn]

I second this. Some (cheapo/noname) PLA is near impossible to get to stick. My best guess so far is that they are oily, or sweat oil when they are melted, ruining adhesion.

On 27 Dec 2013 21:37, "Tony Shulthise" <tshul...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Oh... one other thing to consider...

I had a roll of PLA that wouldn't stick for anything once.  Try a different roll of PLA just to rule out the filament.  A bad roll of filament can cause you to pull all your hair out before you finally realize its not you or your printer!

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[Joshua Wills]

One other quick note, that I'm not certain anyone mentioned - if your first layer height seems off (the first layer is a very thin and round, not flattened out; and you can push it around easily with your tweezers), you can turn the Z knob one or more clicks clockwise to raise the bed ~.16mm per click.  This will squish the first layer more, giving you better adhesion.

Just don't go too far - if your filament is squished to the point of being completely translucent, you have a very good chance of the pressure building up in the hotend causing a jam.

[Wayne Newberry]

Don't fret I had the same problem for quite a while.  

I use hairspray also, but I don't spray it on the bed.  I clean with 409 and a paper towel, then I use a microfiber cloth, spray (I have a pump type can) hairspray on the cloth, just the tip of you finger, then "paint" it on the glass while its cold. 

Like others have said, the Z height is critical.  I have more luck with a single sheet of paper than two but I often print at thinner layers. Too low and the nozzle will just scrape the PLA off the bed. 

You might want to also check for a partial blockage in the nozzle.  Warm up the extruder to your machine's working temp (215 in your case) and once its at temp, manually extrude by clicking the 10mm extrude button on the JOG tab,  Click it a couple of times to get about 50mm total and watch how it comes out.  It might curl a little but should eventually drop down and start to "coil" on the bed. 

If it continually comes out like a corkscrew-sidways, or all over the nozzle, your nozzle might be clogged.  It needs to come out relatively straight to get on the glass, and not on the nozzle. 

On Thursday, December 26, 2013 3:22:35 PM UTC-5, John Plato wrote:

[John Plato]

Thanks for all the replies, guys.  I followed Josh's recommendation and turned the z-adjustment knob one click clockwise and that fixed it.  The business card I was using to calibrate the z-endstop was probably a tad thick.  By the way, I'd like to use a spark plug gapping tool to be a bit more precise with the z-calibration.  What should the gap measure, exactly?

The print quality on this machine is unreal!

Regards,
John

On Thursday, December 26, 2013 3:22:35 PM UTC-5, John Plato wrote:

[jimc]

john a standard fold up feeler gauge set will work great. i print a .15mm layer height and i find my gap to bet set anywhere from .006-.008" depending on the material i am printing.

[WayneN]

I have had a lot of success using a single sheet of normal copy paper, and adjusting the platform until the paper will just slide with a small amount of resistance from the nozzle.  

I also adjust with my platform pre-heated to 60c, since it will be hot during actual printing.