PLA (1.75mm) vendor for rep2?

[Eric Cheung]

Hi,

I'm curious if any rep2 owners have tried non-MBI PLA vendors out there and have gotten good results. 

I'm asking because, the MBI 30-day lead-time simply..... simply makes me ignore them.

Of course I'm going to contribute to this thread that I am starting. So:

I found this "justpla.com" place online. It's brand new. They just entered the business like a couple weeks ago. Has one review on the main site. Almost no technical description of any kind on the site. Prices are on par with ABS (i.e. much cheaper than PLA). No idea where the filament is manufactured. Considering all those... I went ahead a bought a 1kg spool red.

My review (criteria based on how well it's a drop-in replacement for MBI filaments):

Paid on paypal, got the spool in 2.5days (half week, same working week). The 1kg spool has a 90mm x 35mm hole, so it will not fit the 50mm holder in rep2 (I printed one from thingiverse). Filament measured 1.68mm to 1.75mm diameter, both a combination of variable over length and variable because it's not circular. As a drop-in test, I printed at 230C, though the website said something about optimum is 170C (maybe for Rep1). Printed with same speed and same other settings. I did adjust RepG filament diameter to 1.68. Printing completed just fine. Adhesion on blue tape equivalent to MBI PLA. Part strength equivalent to MBI PLA (appears so). No inclusion detected so far. Tightened punch screw due to measured diameter variation, no feeding problem over a 3-hr single piece print. The red color comes out quite beautifully, as shown in photo on website. 

The only difference in printed part quality is that there are thin hairy strands dragging over when the extruder crosses open space (where MBI PLA crosses gaps without leaving a strand). It could be a temperature fix, but looks minor. Everything else works perfectly as 1-to-1 drop-in.

Given that I just opened the shipping package and successfully printed a 3-hr part, I'd say it's got good promise. Not sure about the filament diameter thing, though my part showed no adverse effect. If it keeps it's current performance, I'd buy from them again. 

I'll get a picture up once I get over my laziness.

Thanks for your upcoming replies!

[Infinityplusplus]

I use PLA from ultimachine in my rep2. It has tight tolerance and good array of colors. I have used black, silver, red, blue, and gold all with good results. I don't order makerbot PLA because of the lead time. Ultimachine PLA usually ships quick and gets here in 3-4 days. It has served me well so they keep getting my business. I hear good things about protoparadigm as well.

[Owen M Collins]

Where are you based? there are great distributors in Europe it that would be closer to you.

O.

> --
>
>

[Pascal POECK]

Any example and/or feedback for Europe O?

[Owen M Collins]

You could look here:

http://reprap.org/wiki/Printing_Material_Suppliers

I have heard good things about 

http://ultimaker.com

http://reprapsource.com

http://www.faberdashery.co.uk/

I have not used any of those suppliers, since I am on a Cupcake with ABS. But if you search thru this list those are mentioned positively. I am sure others can chime in.

O.

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[Chris Milnes]

I've used most of the ones listed in this thread with good results. 

Just placed order with MatterHackers.com on your recommendation. 

Have you tried the "wood" filament from them? 

Best, Chris 

On Friday, January 18, 2013 4:55:14 PM UTC-5, Toby Evetts wrote:

I've been using matterhackers.com who are right here in Southern California. The PLA arrives pretty quickly and I've had no problems so far. Like justpla it's sold by makers so they care about the quality. 

[Wingcommander whpthomas]

If you live in Australia, give joshmamo at hotmail dot com a bell. I have purchased about 10 rolls of filament off him so far and they all worked a treat - 1.69mm +/- 0.01- never had a failed print from his PLA. He recently emailed me they a new shipment of 1.75mm PLA come in so has a full range of colours, 2-3 day express delivery, and half the price of 'official' MBI PLA in Australia.

Another vendor over here is BilbyCNC - I have also tried their PLA - which is just a good as Josh's, but at the time I was looking most colours were on back order. I have purchased parts form them and they deliver over night, with excellent customer service.

One vendor I strongly DO NOT RECOMMEND is "SainSmart PLA 3D Printer Supplies Filament For Makerbot RepRap 1kg 1.75mm" on eBay - I ordered a roll over christmas when everyone else was out of a particular colour - really just as an experiment to see what cheap Chinese filament was like - how bad could it be right? To their credit the delivery delivery time was 5 days - as advertised. The spool is no good at all it has cardboard sides, but I know this when I ordered it and I already had an empty spool so I thought I would transfer it over from one spool to another on the back of the bot. So glad I did - firstly the dimensional variation was about 1.68mm to about 1.78mm not great, may effect print quality but with the new extruder http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:42250 (another shameless plug :) feeding this is not a problem. However the PLA filament had breaks in it - they had just taped the end of one strand to another - can you believe it :( Glad I re-spooled because this could have definitely lead to problems down the line. So if you are looking on eBay and you see this stuff and wonder - don't bother its not worth it IMHO.

[Eric Cheung]

Thanks everybody! I will record the info.

BTW, here's a yoda I printed on Rep2 V6.2 with the economical PLA from JustPLA.com ($38/kg), at default settings.

[Ryan Gerrish]

I'm using Black and Blue from Ultimachine and am quite happy with it. The sample Red and Green they sent with my order also worked great!

On Friday, January 18, 2013 12:53:34 PM UTC-8, Eric Cheung wrote:

[John Armbruster]

Can nyone explain the MBI 30 day lead time?

[Laird Popkin]

I've had good experiences with the extremely inexpensive ABS and PLA from EsunPLA. See my previous post, https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&ved=0CEkQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fgroup%2Fmakerbot%2Fbrowse_thread%2Fthread%2F7a0fd6a7b7f26cbc%2F90d2025cd6589609&ei=39L-UIK9IZSC9gS2_IHYDw&usg=AFQjCNFuJIOXb5-dt_7oi-H2RjnLnbdxWg

Updating as I've now printed a few dozen KG of their filament:

Pro's:

- Very, very cheap if you order in 15+ KG quantities. Well under $20/KG with shipping. For me, the low price is enabling me to print constantly, which is a real pleasure.

- ABS and PLA, a wide range of colors, including the usual colors, lots of pastel shades, a very nice translucent blue, and Glow in the Dark PLA. Fun!

- PVA, if you want to try it.

- None of the problems that people reported with Esun previously, so either they cleaned up their manufacturing or I just got lucky. :-)

Con's:

- Somewhat variable diameter. Not a problem with a spring tensioned extruder like Emmet's minimal extruder, but may not print consistently with the standard plunger. But you should upgrade in any case.

- Quality not as good as MBI or Ultimaker (you get what you pay for). No colors as cool as the fluorescent green and red. And the PLA is a bit brittle - easy to snap if you bend it too much.

- You're really buying "wholesale" and not "retail" so it's a fairly industrial process of exchanging emails to put together an order, pay via PayPal, and wait a week or two for the shipment. You have to place fairly large orders to keep per-KG shipping costs down.

So it makes printing quite cheap. I've been using it for months, with no problems. It's not quite as nice as the "brand name" filaments, but the quality is just fine for most applications around the house.

[Joseph Chiu]

Esun (Shenzhen Esun Industrial) is AFAIK different from EsunPLA  (Jack Wu, Sun Ya Tech Co - http://esunpla.en.ecplaza.net/).     

From what I understand, there was a guy that used the handle EsunPLA on the RepRap forum and a few other places to sell filament, but that filament was not from Esun.

I've bought about $1,000 of filament form Esun already.  I've been pretty happy with their filament overall.

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[Joseph Chiu]

P.S. Laid, since you're dealing with Mary and Andy, it's Esun, not EsunPLA that you purchased from.

On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 10:03 AM, Laird Popkin <la...@popk.in> wrote:

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[Laird Popkin]

You're right - Esun (Shenzhen Esun Industrial Co) specializes in making PLA, and they are listed as "Esun PLA" on Alibaba (which is how I found them), but they're not the same as EsunPLA - my apologies for getting them confused.

If you're familiar with both, how would you compare them? From the photos, the spools are very different shapes, but it's hard to tell more from a photo.

- LP

On Tuesday, January 22, 2013 1:24:19 PM UTC-5, Joseph Chiu wrote:

P.S. Laird, since you're dealing with Mary and Andy, it's Esun, not EsunPLA that you purchased from.

[sciencemike]

I have now tried:

 

SainSmart 1.75mm imported PLA Filament for 3D Printers 1kg black

 

Jet - PLA (1.75mm, Orange color, 1.0kg =2.204lbs) Filament on Spool for 3D Printer MakerBot, RepRap, MakerGear, Ultimaker and UP!

 

1.75mm PLA Blue Glow in Dark Filament 1.0kg (=2.205 lbs) on Spool for 3D Printer MakerBot, RepRap, MakerGear, Ultimaker and UP! - Jet 

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The sainsmart black was a waste.  It kept jamming up my printer, prints are rough, and layers dont stick to each other well.

 

The orange has never jammed, good quality prints.

 

The blue printing is good, but jammed once.

 

The MBI white, natural and icecycle blue are all exceptional, print quality is amazing and they havent jammed yet.

 

I ordered a black and grey from www.robotshop.com

I will update as they are tested.

 

I will be ordering a couple spools from JUSTPLA this week.  I will update as they arrive.

[Joseph Chiu]

> The sainsmart black was a waste.  It kept jamming up my printer, prints are rough, and layers dont stick to each other well.

That sounds like maybe the filament wasn't hot enough.  In my experience, darker colors generally needed to run hotter.  I had some remnant leftover black ABS for Dimension printers that was absolutely worthless until I extruded at 245.  And then it was still so-so.  

I had better experience with MBI black, running at 240, making nice prints.   The Esun black ABS I printed really nicely for me at 240, and probably should have been lowered a touch.

--
 
 

[sciencemike]

Thank you.  The Black jammed in a 36 hour print.  The first time the filament pulled out of the extruder, and had a clean break with a silver ish end.  It looked to me like the company spliced together two peices.  The second time it jammed and wouldnt feed into the machine.  The diameter was too large.  I cut a few inches off and it fed ok.  But I was tired of wasting my time.

 

I will try bumping up the temperature.  Thank you very much that will hopefully solve the layer issues.

 

I have noticed that my MBI clear ice blue has bubbles in it and sometimes smokes as it is coming out.  Should I turn down the temperature?   Also the first few mm are clear of the print but later becomes translucent and not transparent.

[Joseph Chiu]

I'm assuming you're talking about PLA -- When you first start, there might be more heat transferring to the filament and it's more melted than just "softened" -- so the stuff pours and fuses better.    I once did a print where I deliberately undersized the filament and bumped up the temperature -- the resulting piece almost looked like it was injection molded -- it was slightly milky and discolored from the heat -- but it looked nice.  But, generally, PLA has not fused well enough for my taste (see my "what's your best PLA print" thread).

--
 
 

[Wingcommander whpthomas]

I would steer clear of the SainSmart PLA sold on eBay. I purchased a roll of yellow, just to give it a try.

There is lots of dimensional variation - 1.75 +/- 0.05 mm but worse, because the reel has cardboard flanges, I decided to re-spool onto a left over plastic spool - about half way through the filament was cut, and just taped together. If this had fed into my extruder, it could have caused all sorts of problems. Other than that, it seems to print OK, just not a particularly even surface finish due to the variable diameter.

[Eric Cheung]

Just summarized feedback here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Au2joJ_XuYbOdHhkOXdRaXVMdG01MTZCU1Y5NjY4VkE#gid=2

Please help by putting in your rating or feedbacks. Thank you so much!

I wanted to include only the "approved buy" and "avoid" ones on the list; the giant list on the wiki doesn't really help me with purchasing decisions.

** I didn't put in the Esun one(s) because there was too much confusion over what's going on and multiple similarly-named vendors

[Laird Popkin]

It turns out that we were both talking about Esun, not EsunPLA, so the confusion is cleared up, and you should add them to your spreadsheet.

[Eric Cheung]

Added.

I wonder how many low-cost vendors who ship from the US actually got their supply from large chemical companies like Esun in China... (they can supply like 10 tons of month currently)

[Harrison Fast]

Just a note. Both ultimachine and justPLA list Natureworks PLA4043D as the resin formulation they are using. Since neither of these companies are doing their own extrusion (to generate filament) I'm going to wager that they have the same product. It's possible they have their own extrusion houses, but I would guess not. 

[Eighty]

ProtoParadigm uses Natureworks 4043d too...

[Kletus VanDamme]

I've tried several, but I stick with SainSmart's white and yellow PLA, available on Amazon.

They are both great.

I stay away from anything translucent or glossy, because it gives me prints that quit halfway through.  I'm using up those reels on small prints, where failure doesn't result in a lost day.

Also, I just tried dapping olive oil on my filament and I had a print come out successfully.

On Friday, January 18, 2013 12:53:34 PM UTC-8, Eric Cheung wrote:

[John Armbruster]

Also ordered 2 spools from justPLA.com; red and blue. Ordered through PAYPAL on Saturday afternoon, arrived Monday. Just as a test, plugged the red in directly using the default Makerware medium settings, didn't even change the default or tighten the plunger for the filament's 1.68" diameter. Printed out a "tower of pimp" for my son (don't ask) and a bed leveler. For not changing a single thing, I was pretty happy with the results; adhesion was good to the blue tape and between layers, no string issues...every bit as good as Makerbot clear PLA on the same settings.

[Toby Evetts]

I was struggling with the justPLA transparent filaments but after a lot of back and forth with them I've had success by printing at 200 instead. They felt the 220 or 230 was boiling the filament and causing it to block. I'll let you know if it's cured it for all but for the first time ever today I got the stretchy bracelet printed cleanly in transparent blue.

[Eric Cheung]

I'm curious, could you describe "boiling" with a little more detail?

I'm wondering if playing with temp could alleviate my stringing problem.

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[Toby Evetts]

Well they were very surprised that we were running the extruders that hot and recommended 170 for their pla. I tried 180 but it didn't adhere as well so I tried 200 and then suddenly it came to life. Before I used to get it turning whiter and whiter and whispier and whispier till it just stopped about 10 minutes into the print They thought perhaps it was boiling and the steam was causing a build up of pressure in the extruder which prevented the pla from being fed in.

I've tried two of the colored semi-transparent plas now and they both printed fine with no problems at all.

[Eric Cheung]

I can confirm that printing at 170 flat out doesn't work. It can barely come out of the nozzle, then doesn't flow, then won't stick or make anything.

I started cranking the temperature up till it prints normally like the MBI plastic, before I know it I was above the 200C range. For simplicity, I used the same 230C setting as every other PLA filament.

However, I cannot comment on the clear filament or other colors. My red behaves normally at 230.

[Adrian Gluck]

I'm about to order some more PLA myself. I've had good luck with MakerBot's clear but the orange has been finicky. I'm not seeing much of a consensus here. I live in eastern US and don't mind a few dollar difference if it's going to mean a jump in quality. That being said, which company is the best in terms of quality? The spreadsheet doesn't have ratings for all the ones you're discussing. If it's a 20% jump in price for 5% quality then I'll go cheaper but I'm just not sure which company to go with.

[xenogea...@gmail.com]

I just ordered some filament from Ultimachine and as stated, it appears they use 4043D.  I read on the reprap wiki can be extruded at lower temperatures, 180-220C.  The filament I have from MakerBot prints well at about 230C, but going much lower than that and I start having issues.  Do they use 4032D?  What is the difference between 4032D and 4043D?

[Wingcommander whpthomas]

I have found that temperature effects are much more subtle - 230c can get too hot and cause the melt area to move up the heat tube causing blockages, dropping just 2c to 228c seem to fix this, but dropping to 225c causes filament not to bond as strongly in some areas.

[Steve]

I have been using PLA from ProtoParadigm (can't wait a month to get MBI filament). I have had very good results with black and yellow. It generally only takes a couple of days before it arrives. I ordered purple this time and it came on a different spool. I had been getting rolls with the same spool as MBI filament but this time the purple came on a spool with the same size mounting hole diameter but the spool was nearly 20mm narrower that the other spools. This means the filament is wound up flush with the top of the spool, and so it tends to drop a few loops off when printing. This is a problem because you have to babysit the print. I like their PLA quality, but if they have moved to this type of reel I will need to order elsewhere. 

Based on recommendations above I am looking at Ultimachine. Does the filament from Ultimachine print well at 230, and have you noticed much difference in performance for the different colors?

Steve

[Adrian Gluck]

Just purchased 2kgs from matterhackers. I'll update once it's in. If it helps anyone I searched a lot online and only found good reviews.

[Chris Milnes]

Agreed on all counts.

I will add one caveat.

The JET stuff on amazon is lower quality agreed - but the white filament is a cool oddball.

It is almost milky, like a softer white, like a bar of soap. Prints great and is very forgiving. Printing same item with standard MBI white vs this JET white (both having with same 1.75mm diameter) is a remarkable difference. The lines that are apparent on the MBI print are not present on the JET print - (im on the road and don't have photographic proof on hand - but will post asap)
   

Best, Chris

Sent from iphone

On Feb 6, 2013, at 4:06 AM, Anne Tiber <anne....@tiberiex.com> wrote:

I've been using MatterHackers.  They've been great, print quality has been fantastic, shipping was fast, and the price is good.  What I like too is they seem to keep adding more variety to what they sell.  Besides the PLA, I've also tried the Laywood, which is really cool.  It looks like they recently started selling Nylon filament as well.  Anyone tried that?

I've also had very good success with Ultimachine, it's just much pricier.  One other one that I tried that I would NOT recommend and would stay far away from is JetPLA on Amazon.  I came across no fewer than 4 knots throughout the spool.  Not tangles, actual knots where the filament had either been tied or fused together.  Pretty weird.

--

[Matt Hill]

I just found a knot in my yellow PLA from sainsmart. That's a failed print waiting to happen. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 6, 2013, at 2:37 PM, Adrian Gluck <arg...@gmail.com> wrote:

Just purchased 2kgs from matterhackers. I'll update once it's in. If it helps anyone I searched a lot online and only found good reviews.

--

[Steve]

Anne Tiber 

What temp are you using for the MatterHackers PLA?

Does it work with the default Rep2 settings in Skeinforge?

On Wednesday, February 6, 2013 1:06:01 AM UTC-8, Anne Tiber wrote:

I've been using MatterHackers.  They've been great, print quality has been fantastic, shipping was fast, and the price is good.  What I like too is they seem to keep adding more variety to what they sell.  Besides the PLA, I've also tried the Laywood, which is really cool.  It looks like they recently started selling Nylon filament as well.  Anyone tried that?

I've also had very good success with Ultimachine, it's just much pricier.  One other one that I tried that I would NOT recommend and would stay far away from is JetPLA on Amazon.  I came across no fewer than 4 knots throughout the spool.  Not tangles, actual knots where the filament had either been tied or fused together.  Pretty weird.

On Tuesday, February 5, 2013 6:43:27 PM UTC-8, Steve wrote:

[Toby Evetts]

I run all the matterhackers pla at the default temperature fine. Only the justpla transparent colors need to be run cooler it seems. Of course this is within the window of how accurate my thermocouple is. I recently replaced mine for the second time so who knows.

[Matt Hill]

Toby,

What prompted you to replace your thermocouple?

Also, what temp have you found that works for translucent filament?

Also, does your software let you adjust your extruder temp in real time?

I use MakerWare and it does not. I have a replicator2. 

Thx. 

Sent from my iPhone

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[Eric Cheung]

While I haven't replaced my thermocouple yet, I did accidentally set the temperature at 2350C instead of 235C. I was printing Nylon, a lot of smoke came out, probably HCN. I'm pretty sure I was damaged more than the bot or the thermocouple.

Consider Replicator G to replace MakerWare. It won't allow temp control in real time (that's a lot to ask for), but it will enable finer temperature control, say, for the first few layers/raft and the rest of the part.

[Toby Evetts]

The first time I had a PLA blob that was a complete disaster and it completely cocooned the extruder and broke the thermocouple (so I could not heat it off). The good news is it forced me to get to grips with how the whole printer worked and I built wingcommader's wonderful extruder upgrade into it which really does make a difference. I'd bought a very expensive machine and I really didn't like the idea of taking it apart but I now realize this machine needs tinkering. It's just inevitable it seems and is part of the process.  The second time was when I began getting temperature fail readings on the bot randomly which I traced back to having trapped the thermocouple behind the fan. I fixed it but it seemed to have damaged it irreparably and it came back again. I had a spare thermocouple lying about from the first disaster and even though it's not quite the same couple as the mk8 extruder (the old mk7 version is held against the aluminum block with a screw, the new version has a screw attached that actually  screws into the block) it seems to work ok. Annoyingly a lot of the spare parts on the makerbot site are not for the rep 2 even though they might claim they are. I'd often rather pay for spare parts and get them quickly than wait for makerbot support to respond and get the part from them. It just adds an inevitable delay to the process.

I really only use replicator g now with wingcommander's presets as i've found them to be the best but changing the default temperature on that involved editing the start gcode file as that seemed to override the temperature settings options in the software. I'm not very intimate with all the preset settings in repg yet so I may have missed something but that worked for me. Changing the temperature in the settings directly was not enough. I had to dig in but that may be because of the way that wingcommander set them up. 

I only use makerware now for things which are quick and dirty prints. I find their rafts and supports cruder than the replicator G presets (and less easy to peel off the model) and I like the way it circumscribed the to-be--printed object which really helps to clear out the nozzle with old PLA. Also I've never really managed to get a high rez print to work in makerware.

I haven't printed with the default transparent PLA for a while so i'll test that again soon. It used to work fine on the default settings for me but if you're getting air printing on it it might be worth trying a cooler temperature. Certainly works for the justPLA reels.

[Eric Cheung]

I printed at 0.1mm resolution with RepG, using MBI and JustPLA filaments, had success with default settings (basically no change). The skirt feature you mentioned is very helpful indeed.

Also, how come everybody uses "windcommander" while I somehow think that his name is thomas or something...

[Toby Evetts]

Actually I believe his Name is Dr Henry Thomas. But Wingcommander is his moniker and I like it.

Interesting you had no trouble with the Justplas I had failure repeatedly after a while and this does chime with what they said. They're lovely colors but problematic for me at higher temperatures  for me. Anyway it's an easy fix if anyone has problems,.

.

[Wingcommander whpthomas]

Actually I believe his Name is Dr Henry Thomas. But Wingcommander is his moniker and I like it.

Yes it is Dr Henry Thomas - I have a doctorate in behavioural science.

A while back I was on a bit of a mission to get my printer to work - and was not prepared to just wait around for MBI to solve the issues we were having - and was very perturbed by some disparaging comments made by a certain MBI marketing director about this group at CES earlier this year. I guess we declared war on the direction MBI was heading and wanted to rub his nose in the fact that this group was running circles around their support team in terms of coming up with practical working solutions to the problems we were having getting our Replicator 2's to print reliably. Someone in this group started calling me Wingcommander - and it stuck - so I decided to embrace this monkier - all in good humour - because I like it too ;)

[sciencemike]

I agree completely with the temperature variation.

Clears and glow filaments I am now running at 190-210.

Medium pigments are at 220-230.

Blacks are run at 240-245.

At least thats the best I can do from memory.

The big issues with temperature are:

1.--Sticking to the plate seems proportional to the temperature. Cold prints pop right off, hot ones adhere like glue.
2.--Too hot and the PLA bubbles and becomes a lighter tint due to small bubbles.
3.--Too hot and the part warps more, even though adhesion to the BP is greater.

I hated the seinsmart black when I got it. But now I love it and I just bought 2 more rolls. Its incredibly black, and even though its diameter varies it still produces great prints, that are as optically as dark as anodized aluminum, especially in the UV region from 270-380nm.

Also as a side note because the ice blues and glow in the darks melt at ~175c dont use them for prints in heated environments. Use the blacks that melt at 240c, especially when the nozzle will be at 230c for most of the time.

[Rich Olson]

Ordered from iivan740 on ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1kg-2-2lb-PLA-1-75-mm-Filament-3d-printer-reprap-prusa-mendelmax-color-choice-/271115724555?ssPageName=ADME:L:OU:US:3160

Got the grey.   Totally happy with it - arrived 2 days after order.  Prints look really nice (although I think his photo has grey and silver swapped).  Comes on spool with a smaller hole than MBI's stuff - easy enough to work around that though (there's a thingiverse item for it).

-Rich

[Toby Evetts]

That's very interesting to know. I'm going to start experimenting more with temperature and these are good to start with. Once my machine is working again of course. 

[Wingcommander whpthomas]

1.--Sticking to the plate seems proportional to the temperature.  Cold prints pop right off, hot ones adhere like glue.
2.--Too hot and the PLA bubbles and becomes a lighter tint due to small bubbles.
3.--Too hot and the part warps more, even though adhesion to the BP is greater.

That's interesting, I found that lower temperatures, produced a sort of crystal lattice, making the PLA seem more opaque, whereas higher the temperatures made the PLA more glassy and see through, but I only went to 240c. This is an area I am still to explore in more depth.

[Dan Newman]

> That's interesting, I found that lower temperatures, produced a sort of
> crystal lattice, making the PLA seem more opaque, whereas higher the
> temperatures made the PLA more glassy and see through, but I only went to
> 240c. This is an area I am still to explore in more depth.

Google "pla cystallization". I believe that it's the degree of the effect
which you are noticing.

Dan

[Matt Hill]

Is someone keeping a log somewhere of filament suppliers and the idiosyncrasies of each particular filament?
I recall this being mentioned but I can't find the thread.
Thx.
Matt

Sent from my iPhone

[Adrian Gluck]

Its in this thread but not kept up that well. A few posts in

[Eric Cheung]

I have a google doc here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Au2joJ_XuYbOdHhkOXdRaXVMdG01MTZCU1Y5NjY4VkE#gid=2

Adrian, it's because nobody else cared to update it as this thread develops. Kind of defeated the purpose of google doc...

[Matt Hill]

Eric,

I think this doc is great.

Can anyone contribute to it?

I have some input.

Is there a link to it in the Makerbot GoogleGroup homepage?

On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 12:18 PM, Eric Cheung <cch...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have a google doc here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Au2joJ_XuYbOdHhkOXdRaXVMdG01MTZCU1Y5NjY4VkE#gid=2

Adrian, it's because nobody else cared to update it as this thread develops. Kind of defeated the purpose of google doc...

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[Adrian Gluck]

It is a great doc and I know it's because nobody else updated it. Made my first pla order last week so I'll def update it once I get it in.

On Feb 10, 2013 3:18 PM, "Eric Cheung" <cch...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have a google doc here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Au2joJ_XuYbOdHhkOXdRaXVMdG01MTZCU1Y5NjY4VkE#gid=2

Adrian, it's because nobody else cared to update it as this thread develops. Kind of defeated the purpose of google doc...

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[Björn Syse]

I have some input also, but it seems it's write protected?

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Björn Syse
Syse Industriell Design
http://www.syse.se
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On 11 feb 2013 16:15 "Adrian Gluck" <arg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It is a great doc and I know it's because nobody else updated it. Made
> my first pla order last week so I'll def update it once I get it in.
>
> On Feb 10, 2013 3:18 PM, "Eric Cheung" <<cch...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> > I have a google doc here:
> > <https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Au2joJ_XuYbOdHhkOXdRaXVM
> > dG01MTZCU1Y5NjY4VkE#gid=2>
> >
> >
> >
> > Adrian, it's because nobody else cared to update it as this thread
> > develops. Kind of defeated the purpose of google doc...
> >
> >
> > --
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> > <mailto:makerbot%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>.

[Eric Cheung]

Hi Matt,

I think I've set access to anyone. Please test. If not, shove me a loud slap and I will fix the access.

Thanks!!

[Ben Latz]

I've ordered from OnlineFilament.com and it was great. It's the same size spool so it fits on the MB and in fact actually prints better than makerbot's plastic. Maybe because it was white, and it naturally prints smoother than green for example but overall I'm very happy with them. Order to delivery takes about a week.

[Björn Syse]

I just got an order from Faberdashery in England, and I'm impressed. Every color printed like a charm on the same default settings from Makerware (i changed the layer height to 100 microns but it's still Makerware slicer). 

The colors are magic! Even the gold one, in which I had no hopes for, looks fantastic! Faberdashery are very pricey though (around $120 per kg) but you can buy per meter which is great for tests. 

 

Here are some pictures:

(Frog is 25 mm long from head to tail in top view)

[Chris Milnes]

You are spot on - same opinion here.

Best, Chris

Sent from iphone

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[Si White]

I can vouch for Faberdashery as well. Great customer support. They are pricey though but the PLA seems to give better results than some other sources.

[Björn Syse]

I don't mind paying a bit more for these spectacular colours, but I Really need to find myself a nice cheap grey or black in which I can print all my tests and everthing bulk. But just as good as the faberdashery ones of course :) Preferably shipping from within the EU.

[Adrian Gluck]

Just updated the doc with a little more on MatterHackers. Bought a red and blue and there is almost no variation in the filament diameter. This is my go to seller now until someone shows me something worth changing for. Free shipping, cheap, and great quality off my prints. Will post a pic once my latest build is one but I've printed a few things and they all look great.

[Chris Pittman]

Second the positive review for Matterhackers - I ordered white and grey and both have been excellent to print with, no complaints.

[Chris Milnes]

I'm making color chips so when I'm away from home I can color match etc. and came to this conclusion:

The "Natural" filament that was included with my Rep2 is the nastiest - most unforgiving - just plain trashy - filament of all 25 colors I have. 

It's doing MBI no favors when this is the media included for people to make first prints with. 

Sheesh! 

Chris

[Eric Cheung]

Why is the MBI natural "nastiest"? I seemed to have printed at 0.1mm without issues, got good parts.

If you have other colored filaments that are way superior to MBI's, I would definitely like to learn about it. Thanks!

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[Chris Milnes]

Well first off I find it very brittle, i've had it snap off while in the feeder tube (the tube that arcs over the machine). 

The finish is kinda nasty for me too. It's similar to sugar candy looking to me. 

It's is sort of see-thru but not really and shows the internal construction structures. 

I prefer either translucent or opaque - the Natural filament is somewhere in between. 

The pieces printed using it are more prone to snap.
So I usually up the infill to combat this. 

Don't get me wrong - I guess i prefer the free natural filament than no free filament. 

I'm just saying that when a person gets the machine out and has a bunch of hurdles to navigate (software choices, platform leveling, temp settings) that a fussy filament only makes the first prints a lil more of a hurdle.

Best, Chris 

 

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Chris Milnes  |   True9.com
======================
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email: chr...@true9.com
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[Eric Cheung]

Chris, your description definitely is very different from my MBI natural that came with my Rep2. I did not experience brittleness issues either in filament form or after printing.

I don't have any idea why, but suspect some kind of a bad batch or environmental degradation problem. For the sake of science, it might be a good idea to reflect this back to MBI or even send them a sample of their crapped-out natural to see what happened.

Glad that other filaments have worked for you. :)

p.s. my cheaper JustPLA red is more brittle than the MBI filaments, but it still doesn't come close to snapping in the feeder tube.

[Adrian Gluck]

I have to agree with Chris. Actually the natural I got is my best "color". I'm getting my best prints off it and it's lack of color seems to mask any imperfections my prints have. I've also bought orange from MBI and that ones giving me problems. MatterHackers Red and Blue is amazing though.

[Matt Hill]

The natural I got from MBI with my Replicator2 performs terribly. It quits sporadically on medium resolution in MakerWare. I've given up on it and I stay away from anything glossy. 

I like whites and yellows the best, from sainsmart. But they are $50 a spool so I will try matter hackers next. Anyone have a color that is easiest to print with from matter hackers?

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 15, 2013, at 9:11 AM, Adrian Gluck <arg...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have to agree with Chris. Actually the natural I got is my best "color". I'm getting my best prints off it and it's lack of color seems to mask any imperfections my prints have. I've also bought orange from MBI and that ones giving me problems. MatterHackers Red and Blue is amazing though.

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[Eric Cheung]

Ok, I think we have opened up a can of worms here:

"The Influence of Color/Colour/Coloring/Colouring on the Properties of PLA Filaments with the Same Underlying Chemistry and Manufacturing Process"

This is a more difficult problem because it requires large sample size from the same manufacturer printed with controlled settings/environment, i.e. by the same person. However, the issue of "some color prints significantly better than others" needs addressing - proving/investigating or debunking.

Unfortunately, poor me has no such collection of colored PLA from the same manufacturer. I will re-read the thread and filter out what I can find.

[Eighty]

I don't have any scientific data to support this, just my experience with the 19 assorted colors that I have (from several different suppliers).

 

My observation is that the natural is the most crystalline (i.e., brittle), with translucent colors being in the middle, and solid colors being the most waxy.  Solids have a lot more additives, and the effect is that they extrude easier and seem a bit softer.  But they are also prone to curling much more so than the clear/translucent ones.  Black has the most tendency to curl.  Probably explains why MBI supplies the natural - they're trying to show everyone how well the PLA performs in that respect.  But the natural is very difficult for newbies to work with.

 

There are a few different PLA chemistries out there, although it seems like 4043D is the prevalent one.  I don't know which ones are which in my collection.

 

Other factors do play into the mix, such as diameter variations and spool snags.  But speaking purely to the colorization, I've found that the completely opaque ones are the most forgiving. 

[John Armbruster]

I was quite happy with justpla.com 's selection, however, I just went back to reorder blue and found they are down to 5 colors: black, natural, oick, yellow, and green. Don't know if this is permanent.

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[sciencemike]

Chris,

I had a similar effect with the transparent iceblue from MBI as well as the GlowintheDark Blue.  The internal construction structures and lack of see thru was due to too hot of temperature.  Cool it down to around 210 and the filament will not bubble as it passes thru the extruder head.  The coldest I have printed was 175.  Make sure your surface is very clean as when you lower the temperature the adhesion to the tape becomes less.  THis will also help reduce the effects of the brittle structure. 

 

If you want an easy test to see what I am talking about just run your change filament command.  Watch your temperature as it climbs.  At about 175 the filament can be pushed through.  It should be clear, as it gets above 210 it will start to have air inclusions in it.  These are due to the filament bubbling.

[Chris Milnes]

Thanx for the tip - will try now.

Cheers, Chris 

[Adrian Gluck]

I use whothomas's spool holder that he posted on thingiverse. Works well, easy print though some people had trouble getting it to sick to the bed well, I didn't have any issues

On Feb 18, 2013 9:01 AM, "Simeon Simeonov" <s...@shopximity.com> wrote:

I'm curious: which filament holder did you choose to go with for the matterhackers' spools? I ordered several spools based on the recommendations here and am wondering what's the best holder option for Rep2. 

Thanks, 

Sim

On Friday, January 18, 2013 5:35:03 PM UTC-5, Chris Milnes wrote:

I've used most of the ones listed in this thread with good results. 

Just placed order with MatterHackers.com on your recommendation. 

Have you tried the "wood" filament from them? 

Best, Chris 

On Friday, January 18, 2013 4:55:14 PM UTC-5, Toby Evetts wrote:

I've been using matterhackers.com who are right here in Southern California. The PLA arrives pretty quickly and I've had no problems so far. Like justpla it's sold by makers so they care about the quality. 

On Friday, January 18, 2013 12:53:34 PM UTC-8, Eric Cheung wrote:

Hi,

I'm curious if any rep2 owners have tried non-MBI PLA vendors out there and have gotten good results. 

I'm asking because, the MBI 30-day lead-time simply..... simply makes me ignore them.

Of course I'm going to contribute to this thread that I am starting. So:

I found this "justpla.com" place online. It's brand new. They just entered the business like a couple weeks ago. Has one review on the main site. Almost no technical description of any kind on the site. Prices are on par with ABS (i.e. much cheaper than PLA). No idea where the filament is manufactured. Considering all those... I went ahead a bought a 1kg spool red.

My review (criteria based on how well it's a drop-in replacement for MBI filaments):

Paid on paypal, got the spool in 2.5days (half week, same working week). The 1kg spool has a 90mm x 35mm hole, so it will not fit the 50mm holder in rep2 (I printed one from thingiverse). Filament measured 1.68mm to 1.75mm diameter, both a combination of variable over length and variable because it's not circular. As a drop-in test, I printed at 230C, though the website said something about optimum is 170C (maybe for Rep1). Printed with same speed and same other settings. I did adjust RepG filament diameter to 1.68. Printing completed just fine. Adhesion on blue tape equivalent to MBI PLA. Part strength equivalent to MBI PLA (appears so). No inclusion detected so far. Tightened punch screw due to measured diameter variation, no feeding problem over a 3-hr single piece print. The red color comes out quite beautifully, as shown in photo on website. 

The only difference in printed part quality is that there are thin hairy strands dragging over when the extruder crosses open space (where MBI PLA crosses gaps without leaving a strand). It could be a temperature fix, but looks minor. Everything else works perfectly as 1-to-1 drop-in.

Given that I just opened the shipping package and successfully printed a 3-hr part, I'd say it's got good promise. Not sure about the filament diameter thing, though my part showed no adverse effect. If it keeps it's current performance, I'd buy from them again. 

I'll get a picture up once I get over my laziness.

Thanks for your upcoming replies!

[Simeon Simeonov]

Thanks, Adrian.

[Tim Kay]

We are in the process of creating a filament/printer guide here Customer filament guide it covers all the filaments that we provide, when one of our customers uploads a print for that particular filament, it is added to the guide.  It is in working progress so early days yet :) We would appreciate your feedback on what you guys think.

Regards

Tim