Makerbot Replicator Love / Hate, A Review after 1 Month.
3,564 views
Skip to first unread message
Elbot
Sep 5, 2012, 2:02:05 PM9/5/12
to make...@googlegroups.com
TECHNOLOGY - The technology of the Makerbot Replicator is unsurpassed. It is cutting edge. There are only 3 dual extruder 3d printers on the market currently; Leapfrog Creatr (Netherlands), Bukobot 8 Duo (USA), and Makerbot Replicator (USA).
I placed a long distance phone call from the USA to the Netherlands and talked with them about the Creatr. It is capable of printing in dual plastics only if one of the plastics is a support material such as PLA. It is not capable of printing a dual colored object, yet. They will be capable of printing dual colored objects soon, but their Creatr's creator didn't call me back with a ETA. Maybe his co-worker forgot to pass it along or maybe even the creator doesn't know. The Creatr uses Slic3r and Pronterface.
The Bukobot 8 Duo uses Repetier Host with Skeinforge or Slic3r. None of the demo prints on the Bukobot website are dual colored and it describes his dual extrusion kit as "experimental". It looks like that the Makerbot Replicator is the only 3d printer that can realistically say it has true dual extrusion capability. It beats all other 3d printers in the technology department.
EASE OF USE - The Makerbot Replicator is not easy to use. I have had it for about 5 weeks. I have only had it printing for 1 week that I had it. Here is my saga;
1. At first I though it was a defective machine. So, Makerbot sent me another machine. It still didn't work. It turns out that it was not Windows Vista compatible.
2. HBP was warped. They sent me another one.
3. Plastic filament keeps slipping between the spool and printer. I printed out a Filament Spool Guard .
4. Plastic fumes made me light headed. Printed out Fume Scrubber .
5. Nozzles clogged. They sent me two more.
6. Spring loaded screw knobs that levels HBP are loose. Apparantly if you heat it and use it, the springs sag so that even at the highest position, the nozzles do not come close enough to the HBP. I am currently trying to move the Z axis stop switch up a bit so that the HBP will be able to come up high enough to be within 1 paper thickness of the nozzles. The threaded z axis rod gets in the way of reinstallation of the z axis switch so I cannot reinstall it. My fingers are too fat. So, I tried duct tape and a ruler to hold the nut, but the nut fell in the crack behind the "Replicator" placard. I was about to cry when I noticed that I had an identical washer in my tool box. After I finish this review, I will re-try the installation.
The Makerbot Replicator is not very easy to use. However, in all fairness, other dual extrusion 3d printers are not easy to use either. Take a look at Deepak's review of Leapfrog Creatr . He also had lots of problems getting his machine to work. The biggest pains in the butt with the Makerbot Replicator are;
1. Kapton tape replacement weekly. There are 2 pieces of tape you have to match up and place on the platform with no bubbles. This is 10 times more difficult than installing the screen protector on your iPhone due to it's sheer size (relative to the iPhone) and the need to coordinate 2 pieces of tape. This is a big headache.
2. The need to disassemble the extruder and clean out the gears weekly. This is a small annoyance.
3. The need to re-level the HBP after every print unless you've printed out the Replicator HBP Height Adjustment Retaining Jig . Even so, you need to re-level the HBP twice a week. The HBP adjustment knob springs become soft and saggy very quickly with use. This is the Makerbot Replicator's biggest weakness. It takes an average of 30 min to an hour to adjust the HBP. You have to adjust it to within a fraction of a mm. You cannot see a fraction of a mm, so you have to use a sheet of paper and go by feel. Every adjustment you make will affect the adjustments of the other knobs. It is truly a nightmare. You don't have to be so exact when making single color prints, but when doing dual extrusion for dual colored prints, you have to be spot on exact or it will turn out badly.
4. If you are doing dual colored prints, the relative heights of the extruders have to be exactly level or it will turn out badly. The factory only tests with a small square. They need to test with a large square because the stage warps when heated. The end of the HBP facing the front of the machine will sag about a mm. If the dual extruders are not exactly the same height then one of the colors will not get deposited and air print. Also, when using Kapton tape (per the factory's website) to adjust the height of the extruders, when you screw the extruder back on, the heights will not be as expected because how much you turn the screws will also affect the extruder height.
The Bukobot 3d printer uses screws to adjust the HBP height, but I don't know if it uses a spring loaded screw. I also don't know if you don't use a spring loaded screw will you risk damaging the nozzles accidentally when adjusting the HBP height. I also don't know if the spring on the Bukobot is more resistant to sag causing frequent readjustment of the HBP (if it uses springs). The Bukobot 3d printer also uses tape on the HBP like the Makerbot Replicator. I don't know if it is a one-piece tape or two piece tape. The Bukobot 3d printer also has extruder gears to clean, but I don't know if you can clean the gears without disassembly. In any case, it is clear that it uses tape, has extruder gears to clean, and needs HBP height adjustment with 4 knobs. So, it is not clearly superior to the Makerbot Replicator.
The Leapfrog Creatr doesn't have user adjustable HBP. It has a HBP but it doesn't need user adjustment. This is good. However, I don't know if you'll have to put up with warping ABS prints. I noticed that all their prints uses the ABS/acetone slurry technique and that they use the "brim" technique when printing, too (printing a flat extension extending from the outside edge of your printed objects to help adherence). I also noticed from the photographs on their website that the build platform is obviously not perfectly flat. It also uses HBP tape, but I'm not sure if it is one piece tape or multiple pieces. There are extruder gears to clean but at least it is of an open design so you don't have to disassemble it. Again, it is not a clearly superior design to the Makerbot Replicator.
CUSTOMER SERVICE - Open source hardware means that you are selling something that anyone can copy. There are several Makerbot Replicator copies on the market right now. For example, there are the Tangibot and the Mbot. Both are made in Asia. Good luck with their customer service/ tech support WHEN (not if) something goes wrong! So, if everyone else is selling the same and/or similar stuff as you at a CHEAPER PRICE, what makes people want to buy your product? One answer: CUSTOMER SERVICE. If you're selling open hardware or software, you're selling customer service. Makerbot customer service is stellar. Guys like Gavin Murphy, Ethan, Mike B and Jason are the legs that Makerbot stands on. Without them, there is no Makerbot. Every time I've come across a problem, they're there bending over backwards to help me.
CONCLUSION - Although the Makerbot Replicator is a finicky machine that has to be fixed a lot, I still recommend it because there are no other dual extruder 3d printers available in the market that is superior to it. Also, any time something needs to get fixed, Makerbot's stellar customer service team is there to help me.
I placed a long distance phone call from the USA to the Netherlands and talked with them about the Creatr. It is capable of printing in dual plastics only if one of the plastics is a support material such as PLA. It is not capable of printing a dual colored object, yet. They will be capable of printing dual colored objects soon, but their Creatr's creator didn't call me back with a ETA. Maybe his co-worker forgot to pass it along or maybe even the creator doesn't know. The Creatr uses Slic3r and Pronterface.
The Bukobot 8 Duo uses Repetier Host with Skeinforge or Slic3r. None of the demo prints on the Bukobot website are dual colored and it describes his dual extrusion kit as "experimental". It looks like that the Makerbot Replicator is the only 3d printer that can realistically say it has true dual extrusion capability. It beats all other 3d printers in the technology department.
EASE OF USE - The Makerbot Replicator is not easy to use. I have had it for about 5 weeks. I have only had it printing for 1 week that I had it. Here is my saga;
1. At first I though it was a defective machine. So, Makerbot sent me another machine. It still didn't work. It turns out that it was not Windows Vista compatible.
2. HBP was warped. They sent me another one.
3. Plastic filament keeps slipping between the spool and printer. I printed out a Filament Spool Guard .
4. Plastic fumes made me light headed. Printed out Fume Scrubber .
5. Nozzles clogged. They sent me two more.
6. Spring loaded screw knobs that levels HBP are loose. Apparantly if you heat it and use it, the springs sag so that even at the highest position, the nozzles do not come close enough to the HBP. I am currently trying to move the Z axis stop switch up a bit so that the HBP will be able to come up high enough to be within 1 paper thickness of the nozzles. The threaded z axis rod gets in the way of reinstallation of the z axis switch so I cannot reinstall it. My fingers are too fat. So, I tried duct tape and a ruler to hold the nut, but the nut fell in the crack behind the "Replicator" placard. I was about to cry when I noticed that I had an identical washer in my tool box. After I finish this review, I will re-try the installation.
The Makerbot Replicator is not very easy to use. However, in all fairness, other dual extrusion 3d printers are not easy to use either. Take a look at Deepak's review of Leapfrog Creatr . He also had lots of problems getting his machine to work. The biggest pains in the butt with the Makerbot Replicator are;
1. Kapton tape replacement weekly. There are 2 pieces of tape you have to match up and place on the platform with no bubbles. This is 10 times more difficult than installing the screen protector on your iPhone due to it's sheer size (relative to the iPhone) and the need to coordinate 2 pieces of tape. This is a big headache.
2. The need to disassemble the extruder and clean out the gears weekly. This is a small annoyance.
3. The need to re-level the HBP after every print unless you've printed out the Replicator HBP Height Adjustment Retaining Jig . Even so, you need to re-level the HBP twice a week. The HBP adjustment knob springs become soft and saggy very quickly with use. This is the Makerbot Replicator's biggest weakness. It takes an average of 30 min to an hour to adjust the HBP. You have to adjust it to within a fraction of a mm. You cannot see a fraction of a mm, so you have to use a sheet of paper and go by feel. Every adjustment you make will affect the adjustments of the other knobs. It is truly a nightmare. You don't have to be so exact when making single color prints, but when doing dual extrusion for dual colored prints, you have to be spot on exact or it will turn out badly.
4. If you are doing dual colored prints, the relative heights of the extruders have to be exactly level or it will turn out badly. The factory only tests with a small square. They need to test with a large square because the stage warps when heated. The end of the HBP facing the front of the machine will sag about a mm. If the dual extruders are not exactly the same height then one of the colors will not get deposited and air print. Also, when using Kapton tape (per the factory's website) to adjust the height of the extruders, when you screw the extruder back on, the heights will not be as expected because how much you turn the screws will also affect the extruder height.
The Bukobot 3d printer uses screws to adjust the HBP height, but I don't know if it uses a spring loaded screw. I also don't know if you don't use a spring loaded screw will you risk damaging the nozzles accidentally when adjusting the HBP height. I also don't know if the spring on the Bukobot is more resistant to sag causing frequent readjustment of the HBP (if it uses springs). The Bukobot 3d printer also uses tape on the HBP like the Makerbot Replicator. I don't know if it is a one-piece tape or two piece tape. The Bukobot 3d printer also has extruder gears to clean, but I don't know if you can clean the gears without disassembly. In any case, it is clear that it uses tape, has extruder gears to clean, and needs HBP height adjustment with 4 knobs. So, it is not clearly superior to the Makerbot Replicator.
The Leapfrog Creatr doesn't have user adjustable HBP. It has a HBP but it doesn't need user adjustment. This is good. However, I don't know if you'll have to put up with warping ABS prints. I noticed that all their prints uses the ABS/acetone slurry technique and that they use the "brim" technique when printing, too (printing a flat extension extending from the outside edge of your printed objects to help adherence). I also noticed from the photographs on their website that the build platform is obviously not perfectly flat. It also uses HBP tape, but I'm not sure if it is one piece tape or multiple pieces. There are extruder gears to clean but at least it is of an open design so you don't have to disassemble it. Again, it is not a clearly superior design to the Makerbot Replicator.
CUSTOMER SERVICE - Open source hardware means that you are selling something that anyone can copy. There are several Makerbot Replicator copies on the market right now. For example, there are the Tangibot and the Mbot. Both are made in Asia. Good luck with their customer service/ tech support WHEN (not if) something goes wrong! So, if everyone else is selling the same and/or similar stuff as you at a CHEAPER PRICE, what makes people want to buy your product? One answer: CUSTOMER SERVICE. If you're selling open hardware or software, you're selling customer service. Makerbot customer service is stellar. Guys like Gavin Murphy, Ethan, Mike B and Jason are the legs that Makerbot stands on. Without them, there is no Makerbot. Every time I've come across a problem, they're there bending over backwards to help me.
CONCLUSION - Although the Makerbot Replicator is a finicky machine that has to be fixed a lot, I still recommend it because there are no other dual extruder 3d printers available in the market that is superior to it. Also, any time something needs to get fixed, Makerbot's stellar customer service team is there to help me.
JohnA.
Sep 5, 2012, 11:24:26 PM9/5/12
to make...@googlegroups.com
Without responding to you line by line, I'll just make the following notes:
- Had my Replicator for 5 weeks
- Printed 2 full spools and most of a third already
- Tons of 8-12 hour prints without issue
- Leveled the build platform..... 2 times? 3 maybe?
- Took one extruder apart while switching colors...
- Kapton tape replacement takes 1 minute, max.
I've had 3 cupcakes, a few RepRaps, and a Replicator, and the Replicator is the easiest and most reliable one I've had yet.
I would say that your experience is going to be outside the norm.
JohnA.
Elbot
Sep 6, 2012, 12:48:55 AM9/6/12
to make...@googlegroups.com
JohnA,
The very fact that you have a DIY RepRap and 3 DIY cupcakes that require SOLDERING to make, puts you in the "technology expert" category. You might be surprised to find that as the price of ASSEMBLED 3d printers come down, the more "Average Joe" type users will be using 3d printers. What's "easy" for you to do is going to be Extremely difficult for the "Average Joe."
So far, I've recommended the Replicator to 2 other friends and they've been having the same types of problems I've been having. One is an architect and the other is a chiropractor. The architect is using his to build scale models of his buildings. The chiropractor is using his Replicator to make custom gifts with his name and business office phone number on them for his patients. I was going to open a 3d print shop until I found out that they're so user hostile.
Even with all the shortcomings, I would still recommend it. For example, my architect friend finds if faster to use the Replicator to make models than to build them by hand, even after factoring the time spent fiddling with the Replicator to get it to work right.
However, in order to become a common household appliance, 3d printers will have to become a lot more user friendly. Of prime importance are;
1. elimination of the user adjusted HBP. Adjustments should be automated.
2. no more kapton tape. build surface should be naked.
3. no need to disassemble the extruder to clean out the drive gears
Until then, 3d printing will just be hobbyist toys.
Keep it awesome,
Elbot.
The very fact that you have a DIY RepRap and 3 DIY cupcakes that require SOLDERING to make, puts you in the "technology expert" category. You might be surprised to find that as the price of ASSEMBLED 3d printers come down, the more "Average Joe" type users will be using 3d printers. What's "easy" for you to do is going to be Extremely difficult for the "Average Joe."
So far, I've recommended the Replicator to 2 other friends and they've been having the same types of problems I've been having. One is an architect and the other is a chiropractor. The architect is using his to build scale models of his buildings. The chiropractor is using his Replicator to make custom gifts with his name and business office phone number on them for his patients. I was going to open a 3d print shop until I found out that they're so user hostile.
Even with all the shortcomings, I would still recommend it. For example, my architect friend finds if faster to use the Replicator to make models than to build them by hand, even after factoring the time spent fiddling with the Replicator to get it to work right.
However, in order to become a common household appliance, 3d printers will have to become a lot more user friendly. Of prime importance are;
1. elimination of the user adjusted HBP. Adjustments should be automated.
2. no more kapton tape. build surface should be naked.
3. no need to disassemble the extruder to clean out the drive gears
Until then, 3d printing will just be hobbyist toys.
Keep it awesome,
Elbot.
Lincoln K
Sep 6, 2012, 2:35:27 AM9/6/12
to make...@googlegroups.com
I have had my Replicator for about 3 weeks, and while the beginning was kind of a nightmare of problems, I haven't gone through nearly as bad of an experience as you have. I also have been printing mostly small parts that took 30-120 minutes all day everyday and today did my first 10.5 hour print, and it came out great!
I am not a tech guy, and this is my first home 3D printer, and it has a MASSIVE learning curve, and I feel is terribly under documented. This leaves new users to scour the internet often getting wrong or outdated information causing more confusion. I think if MakerBot had a solid wiki that they kept up to date that new users could go for all the info, along with videos explaining replicatorG, they would greatly cut down on new user frustration as well as having to field lots of tech support calls.
I have no problem telling people that for right now if someone wants a 3D printer for $2K or less, and they want to start using it within a week or 2, the replicator is the way to go. I just tell them to be prepared for a steep learning curve followed by moments of intense glee when you get it all working.
Lincoln
Message has been deleted
Elbot
Sep 6, 2012, 6:06:22 AM9/6/12
to make...@googlegroups.com
Saw your site, luv ur stuff, Lincoln.
Anyways, you said you did a multi-hour print. I was thinking about scanning and printing a custom, personalized "croc" type shoe. This will take all day to print. However, I've been having power outages here. These are just annoying 1 to 15 minute outages. I was thinking about using a UPS. Will they be OK to use with the replicator? Typical UPS have a "modified sine wave" output. This is basically a stepped square wave. Will this damage my Replicator? Did you use a UPS to protect your multi-hour print?
Or did you use a pure sine wave inverter, battery, and battery charger setup?
Thanks,
Elbot.
Anyways, you said you did a multi-hour print. I was thinking about scanning and printing a custom, personalized "croc" type shoe. This will take all day to print. However, I've been having power outages here. These are just annoying 1 to 15 minute outages. I was thinking about using a UPS. Will they be OK to use with the replicator? Typical UPS have a "modified sine wave" output. This is basically a stepped square wave. Will this damage my Replicator? Did you use a UPS to protect your multi-hour print?
Or did you use a pure sine wave inverter, battery, and battery charger setup?
Thanks,
Elbot.
Fastrack
Sep 6, 2012, 9:32:43 AM9/6/12
to make...@googlegroups.com
As for your HBP not being close enough forget the Z adjustment switch. Just add some washers to bring up the height - mine was about 1/4" away originally.
I no longer use the built in script to level my HBP. I use a dial indicator, mine holds a Princess Auto analog deflection gauge (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:28725). I based it off of heathzap's (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:24864). Which was based off of phineasjw (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:23257). I pre-heat for 10 minutes, then using the Home Axis function on the front panel, position the carriage so the right nozzle (or left) is directly in front of the back right HBP screw (with the spring), with a .127" feeler gauge I adjust the back right ONLY, I then move the carriage off to the left put my dial indicator where the nozzle was and manually move the carriage/dial indicator around. I can do all this in about 1 minute (once heated of course), the end result a 100% level HBP. I do have to to try 66tbirdJZ retaining jig.
For a UPS I use a cheapy APC UPS (I have never purchased anything but APC UPS's), as long as the UPS can handle the load it'll work with your replicator. Since the Replicator uses an AC-DC power supply it does filtering anyway. I've run about 50+ hours on a UPS.
I'm actually surprised you never mentioned your objects not printing in the centre of the HBP - unless they've fixed that issue :) I found the built in script did not work, so I made a new one: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:29128
I gave up on the Dual colour prints, as all my dual colour experiments always had the colour that wasn't being printed mixed with the one that is. The dual colour is great for having 2 colours "mounted" and ready to go. But the main reason I purchased a dual replicator was in hopes of using the 2nd one for support material.
Ben
Fastrack on Thingiverse
Cymon
Sep 6, 2012, 11:07:23 AM9/6/12
to make...@googlegroups.com
http://joesmakerbot.blogspot.com/2012/09/a-great-review-and-discussion-on.html
You write this review like it's going to be published somewhere. Is it?
Either way I had to feature this on my blog because it pretty much mirrors my experience in broad strokes.
66tbird
Sep 6, 2012, 12:51:30 PM9/6/12
to make...@googlegroups.com
Everyone has a different level of mechanical aptitude. This machine, its easy of setup and use combined with its potential for even better print output has to make it way ahead of the curve within this market. Expecting an effortless turnkey system, which there are none at any price, is unrealistic. The minimalistic common parts approach is what makes this machine so easy to solve mechanical problems on. Sure I too had a few issues, set screws not on stepper shaft flats was one. That required only a fine file to fix because all the other needed tools came with the bot.
Basically it's a emerging field and those that understand how the machine works and the intellectual workflow required to produce output will thrive. If your expediting a microwave oven type user experience them you'll need to order out for now.
BTW, A little off topic here but to those of us that are getting great prints regularly, have you seen prints of equal quality and consistency made on other brands of hobby 3dprinters? I ask because i know of one gentleman that has a Mendal/Persa type rig. He is satisfied with his quality and brags its the best rig going for a quality print. I'm not one to tell him he's wrong so I ask him to print cymon's pyramid puzzle. When I showed him the one I printed he rejected it as store brought injection molded. I press harder and he looked closer. Silence befell him and a calm stare at his machine ensued while his brain found the words 'Damm, I'm really in deep in that machine, my wife's going to kill me''. I don't know if I should help him tune it more or let him take the wifely beating. Can that style of machine do Replicator quality?
Basically it's a emerging field and those that understand how the machine works and the intellectual workflow required to produce output will thrive. If your expediting a microwave oven type user experience them you'll need to order out for now.
BTW, A little off topic here but to those of us that are getting great prints regularly, have you seen prints of equal quality and consistency made on other brands of hobby 3dprinters? I ask because i know of one gentleman that has a Mendal/Persa type rig. He is satisfied with his quality and brags its the best rig going for a quality print. I'm not one to tell him he's wrong so I ask him to print cymon's pyramid puzzle. When I showed him the one I printed he rejected it as store brought injection molded. I press harder and he looked closer. Silence befell him and a calm stare at his machine ensued while his brain found the words 'Damm, I'm really in deep in that machine, my wife's going to kill me''. I don't know if I should help him tune it more or let him take the wifely beating. Can that style of machine do Replicator quality?
Gary Crowell
Sep 6, 2012, 1:03:29 PM9/6/12
to make...@googlegroups.com
I went to a meeting a few weeks ago and took my Replicator and samples of its work. I'd had it a few months at that time. There were also about a half-dozen varieties of repraps there, including some that their owners had used for a year or more. Frankly, they were all astounded at what I was doing routinely.
--
----------------------------------------------
Gary A. Crowell Sr., P.E., CID+
Gary
--To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/makerbot/-/psUxivP5KtkJ.
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MakerBot Operators" group.
To post to this group, send email to make...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to makerbot+u...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/makerbot?hl=en.
----------------------------------------------
Gary A. Crowell Sr., P.E., CID+
Adan Akerman
Sep 6, 2012, 2:04:52 PM9/6/12
to make...@googlegroups.com
I'm helping someone at our new maker space print and build a Prusa. I'm extremely curious to see what kind of part quality we're able to get out of it. He'd gotten other parts from someone else at first and they were very rough looking, and worse, very weak (not sure which RepRap variant they were printed on). I've been printing at very coarse settings on my Replicator to save time, yet still everyone's very impressed.
Shawn
Sep 6, 2012, 4:42:06 PM9/6/12
to make...@googlegroups.com
There is a fellow in our local hackersapce with a Prusa who swears he
can get better quality than the Replicator. But all the prints he has
seen from me are at 0.2mm (compromising for speed), and one print at
0.05mm though this one was just to see of 0.05mm would work and it had
other problems that lend to a "poor build" (low infill, needs more
walls, etc. to cover the holes that appeared on the top).
The real difference between his prints and mine are that he is printing
in PLA, while I'm doing ABS. His double-sized Yoda bust at 0.1mm is
great, but I think it's about as great as the replicator would produce
at the same scale/layer height.
I think the quality measurement is not of the machines, but the user
driving the machine. Afterall, all the current versions of the machines
use very similar hardware/steppers.
can get better quality than the Replicator. But all the prints he has
seen from me are at 0.2mm (compromising for speed), and one print at
0.05mm though this one was just to see of 0.05mm would work and it had
other problems that lend to a "poor build" (low infill, needs more
walls, etc. to cover the holes that appeared on the top).
The real difference between his prints and mine are that he is printing
in PLA, while I'm doing ABS. His double-sized Yoda bust at 0.1mm is
great, but I think it's about as great as the replicator would produce
at the same scale/layer height.
I think the quality measurement is not of the machines, but the user
driving the machine. Afterall, all the current versions of the machines
use very similar hardware/steppers.
Adan Akerman
Sep 6, 2012, 4:47:11 PM9/6/12
to make...@googlegroups.com
That's good to hear that it's even up for debate. The guy who's managing the Prusa build I mentioned is a very detail-oriented person. If anyone can get it to perform, I'm sure he can.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MakerBot Operators" group.
To post to this group, send email to make...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to makerbot+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
Lincoln K
Sep 6, 2012, 5:23:00 PM9/6/12
to make...@googlegroups.com
Thanks Elbot.
I didn't think to use a power back up system with my print. The power has only gone out where I live once in the year that I have lived here, but it isn't a bad idea to have one.
Lincoln
ddurant
Sep 6, 2012, 9:20:09 PM9/6/12
to make...@googlegroups.com
> There is a fellow in our local hackersapce with a Prusa who swears he
> can get better quality than the Replicator.
> can get better quality than the Replicator.
Prusa is more of a high-level design than a specific product and how good the machine is can depend a lot on how it was sourced.
If you make a Prusa from parts that were carefully chosen to produce the best printer, it can kick serious butt. If you make one from parts you found out in the shed, it might not be so great. MakerGear (and possibly others) make Prusa kits that are very high quality - a MG Prusa has the current (and arguably not *that* meaningful) "high resolution" record at 0.01mm layers. I know at least one Ultimaker person has printed with Z doing single 1/16th steps (~0.00075mm) but that was custom gcode doing sortofa spiral print - not really doing "layers" at that resolution.
A lot of the machines out there aren't being pushed anywhere near their actual limits.
> The technology of the Makerbot Replicator is unsurpassed
People have put multiple extruders on most machines that are out there and BfB has had dual- and tripple-head machine for a couple years or so now.. Except for doing different materials (ie: support) I think it's a dead end. Something like http://richrap.blogspot.com/2012/08/3-way-quick-fit-extruder-and-colour.html has a lot more potential for doing multiple colors..
PropellerScience
Sep 6, 2012, 9:38:45 PM9/6/12
to MakerBot Operators
Some days I really love the Replicator, but I'm just not progressing
past the toys. Maybe I'm expecting too much from it, I don't know. I
don't think I am. What I'd really like is some consistency. I've got
the enclosure, I've got the new extruder thing, and I've got the dial
indicator thing but still...
Frustration is starting to get the better of me right now so I'll just
end with that.
past the toys. Maybe I'm expecting too much from it, I don't know. I
don't think I am. What I'd really like is some consistency. I've got
the enclosure, I've got the new extruder thing, and I've got the dial
indicator thing but still...
Frustration is starting to get the better of me right now so I'll just
end with that.
RocketSled
Sep 6, 2012, 10:12:11 PM9/6/12
to make...@googlegroups.com
I've had my Rep for about 2 months.
The machine is fairly turnkey. It came out of the box and pretty much worked as advertised. But it's not a turnkey device. It requires careful adjustment to achieve optimal results. It requires periodic/preventative maintenance. The generic software interface is simplified, but the underlying "engine" is very complex. Being able to operate the machine successfully pretty much requires you take some time to understand how it works. If you're technically inclined (I am), this might come naturally. If you're not technically inclined (my wife still doesn't quite get how it works) the learning curve can be steeper.
It's a great machine, especially for what it costs. But it has weaknesses (cost always incurs compromise). It might be frustrating to use if you don't understand how to address the weaknesses, though a forum like this one is a great way to learn from other's experiences and minimize that frustration.
As is the case with so many other things in life, you get out of it what you're equipped to put in to it. Everyone is different and their experiences will be different. The only way to guarantee otherwise is to make it idiot-proof. And as I like to say, if you design something to be idiot-proof, only an idiot will want to use it.
ddurant
Sep 6, 2012, 10:33:07 PM9/6/12
to make...@googlegroups.com
> Frustration is starting to get the better of me right now so I'll just
> end with that.
> end with that.
I spent several months like that when I started printing. NOTHING %$#!ing worked and I was ready to throw the damned thing (a Cupcake) out the window.
Start with an easy goal and just focus on learning how to do that well. Take notes, change one thing at a time, get a feel for what the different settings do. Don't go for layers at 2 microns or printing at 7000mm/s. Pick a simple target, stick with it until you make progress, figure out how you made progress. Don't be afraid to ask questions.
Unless you have broken hardware, you have enough hardware for now - throwing more at the machine (usually) just adds complexity. The hard part is understanding what the software is doing and developing a routine.
The biggest and most common mistake I see is that people start with the assumption that they understand what's going on. I did it, too - I'm a senior software developer so I should be good at this right out of the gate, right? Wrong. Months of frustration worth of wrong. Once I got that out of the way, I started making progress pretty quickly.
Elbot
Sep 7, 2012, 1:03:28 AM9/7/12
to make...@googlegroups.com
Thanks for that wonderful script. I will try it. Also, thanks for telling about the deflection gauge method. I will try that.
You can print dual extrusion with dual colors, but be prepared for a battle! You have to adjust the height of the two extruders to be EXACTLY the same, to within a tenth of a mm or less! It took me 9 tries to print a dual colored iPhone case. I was doing fine until my nozzles clogged. Now, after I replaced the nozzles, the two nozzles are no longer the same height anymore. It's been 10 days, and I still haven't been able to get it adjusted right for dual extrusion. The frustrating thing is that I know it is possible because I've adjusted it right before!
Ugh....!
Use shims of kapton to level the nozzles.... good luck!
You can print dual extrusion with dual colors, but be prepared for a battle! You have to adjust the height of the two extruders to be EXACTLY the same, to within a tenth of a mm or less! It took me 9 tries to print a dual colored iPhone case. I was doing fine until my nozzles clogged. Now, after I replaced the nozzles, the two nozzles are no longer the same height anymore. It's been 10 days, and I still haven't been able to get it adjusted right for dual extrusion. The frustrating thing is that I know it is possible because I've adjusted it right before!
Ugh....!
Use shims of kapton to level the nozzles.... good luck!
Elbot
Sep 7, 2012, 1:06:42 AM9/7/12
to make...@googlegroups.com
Yeah, go ahead and feature that on your blog. It is fine. BTW, thanks for the wonderful toys you uploaded on to Thingiverse. I think I can get your decoder ring to print by doing the following things;
1. decrease the resolution of your text. make the text and numbers 8 bit in font.
2. increase the size of your ring
3. use dual extrusion (once I figure that out !)
Once I've done it, I will let you know and post it on Thingiverse.
1. decrease the resolution of your text. make the text and numbers 8 bit in font.
2. increase the size of your ring
3. use dual extrusion (once I figure that out !)
Once I've done it, I will let you know and post it on Thingiverse.
Joseph Chiu
Sep 7, 2012, 10:44:17 AM9/7/12
to make...@googlegroups.com
I just joined the ranks of Replicator owners last week -- I bought it second hand from a gentleman that listed his for sale here (if you're reading this, thanks Michael!).
He told me he "had enough trouble leveling the platform with two extruder" -- so I didn't have to deal with platform/extruder issues that I know some folks have experienced out-of-the-box.
In my case, the Replicator worked well without any drama. I made a fresh RepG install on a separate PC to do some slicing and the prints I've done so far have been pretty good. I did get surprised at first by the toolhead offset, causing my very first wide object to print off the edge of the print bed, and it could use a bit more height adjustment to get the tramming just right. (I need to setup my dial gauge!)
Everything I've printed so far turned out really nicely. No dramas so far. Overall initial experience was very good. About the only thing I don't like so far is the control panel interface. It feels flimsy, and I hate having to scroll through the SD card file list one.line.at.a.time. (I have nearly 70 files on my current card that I use with the ToM.)
Busybotz
Sep 7, 2012, 12:32:24 PM9/7/12
to make...@googlegroups.com, joe...@joechiu.com
In order to retain sanity... Make a folder on the SD card using your computer, and move most of the files into the folder. The Replicator ignores the folder and does not see the files within. Then you can move files in and out of the folder as needed.
Cymon
Sep 7, 2012, 12:37:01 PM9/7/12
to make...@googlegroups.com
On Thursday, September 6, 2012 10:51:30 AM UTC-6, 66tbird wrote:
BTW, A little off topic here but to those of us that are getting great prints regularly, have you seen prints of equal quality and consistency made on other brands of hobby 3dprinters? I ask because i know of one gentleman that has a Mendal/Persa type rig. He is satisfied with his quality and brags its the best rig going for a quality print. I'm not one to tell him he's wrong so I ask him to print cymon's pyramid puzzle. When I showed him the one I printed he rejected it as store brought injection molded. I press harder and he looked closer. Silence befell him and a calm stare at his machine ensued while his brain found the words 'Damm, I'm really in deep in that machine, my wife's going to kill me''. I don't know if I should help him tune it more or let him take the wifely beating. Can that style of machine do Replicator quality?
Okay, couple of things here. 1) All I did was suggest he cut his existing pyramid puzzle in half so it looked like the one I had as a kid and now it's "Cymon's Pyramid Puzzle"? Fair enough I guess. B) ... no... 2) That has got to be the funniest story I'm gonna read today.
Adan Akerman
Sep 7, 2012, 12:45:36 PM9/7/12
to make...@googlegroups.com
My dad has a long history of modifying half of one ingredient in a recipe and then calling it "Al's Fish Chowder" or whatever :-)
The spouse/maker relationship is an awesome dynamic. And when they're both makers, but with different aesthetics? Even more fun.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MakerBot Operators" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/makerbot/-/cAdzb1nWro4J.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to makerbot+u...@googlegroups.com.
Cymon
Sep 7, 2012, 1:04:01 PM9/7/12
to make...@googlegroups.com
On Thursday, September 6, 2012 7:38:48 PM UTC-6, PropellerScience wrote:
Some days I really love the Replicator, but I'm just not progressing
past the toys. Maybe I'm expecting too much from it, I don't know. I
don't think I am. What I'd really like is some consistency. I've got
the enclosure, I've got the new extruder thing, and I've got the dial
indicator thing but still...
I'd like to help PropellerScience here. Let's help him/her to move past the toys. So how have you moved past the toys or what projects on thingiverse would you recommend.
Personally most of my non-toy prints are repairs for small items around the house that are so custom that uploading them to thingiverse won't do much good. Like a guide for a drawer. Or feet for the pool's ladder. I really like shark clips. Functional, good looking, and give-awayable. Also bike tire levers, print 2 of them so you have them when you need them. Also a replacement doorbell button that I use every day to open the garage door.
What sort of non-toy things would you recommend.
Adan Akerman
Sep 7, 2012, 2:13:26 PM9/7/12
to make...@googlegroups.com
Excellent thread idea.
- definitely a lot of fairly custom things that are unlikely to be of general use.
-all new feet for a lounge chair that had split all of its originals, very ugly. New design incorporated a recess for a 3/4" self-adhesive felt disk, super cool... works perfectly, haven't thought about them in three months.
-a bunch of prototype parts for a product development consulting job. Not beautiful, but very helpful to have in hand for my review and the client's.
-This guy has a real focus on the down-to-earth (literally!) usable items. I haven't printed any yet, but they're on my list.
-Also this guy, and his Project Re: Ditto, though: I haven't printed any yet.
-A magnetic key-thingy for opening magnetic childsafe cabinet locks. I've just now put it up on Thingiverse.
-I use daily a macro-lensed modified Glif-like thingy, not this one, but one that I redrew from scratch and then added a lens, that I need to tweak and then upload. That's so handy but I keep revising it. Here's a picture of the threads at the moment. The macro lens function is so handy to have as part of a stand / tripod mount, I'll try to get that revised and up there soon. In the meantime, here's the original one from which I stole the idea and the lens source. Go ahead and buy a few lenses if it's at all interesting.
-my rolling hedgehog is a serious tool, make no mistake. No, wait, no it isn't :-) But print at 0.6 scale and it's pocket sized and the wheels still move, pretty sweet.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MakerBot Operators" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/makerbot/-/4_ynEg2ORtEJ.
Thomas Charron
Sep 7, 2012, 3:42:10 PM9/7/12
to make...@googlegroups.com
On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 1:04 PM, Cymon <joeal...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, September 6, 2012 7:38:48 PM UTC-6, PropellerScience wrote:
>>
>> Some days I really love the Replicator, but I'm just not progressing
>> past the toys. Maybe I'm expecting too much from it, I don't know. I
>> don't think I am. What I'd really like is some consistency. I've got
>> the enclosure, I've got the new extruder thing, and I've got the dial
>> indicator thing but still...
>
> I'd like to help PropellerScience here. Let's help him/her to move past the
> toys. So how have you moved past the toys or what projects on thingiverse
> would you recommend.
I read the quote entirely differently. He mentions consistency,
>>
>> Some days I really love the Replicator, but I'm just not progressing
>> past the toys. Maybe I'm expecting too much from it, I don't know. I
>> don't think I am. What I'd really like is some consistency. I've got
>> the enclosure, I've got the new extruder thing, and I've got the dial
>> indicator thing but still...
>
> I'd like to help PropellerScience here. Let's help him/her to move past the
> toys. So how have you moved past the toys or what projects on thingiverse
> would you recommend.
which leads me to believe he is more concerned about the quality of
the prints themselves, as in 'Press Print and Go'.
--
-- Thomas
PropellerScience
Sep 9, 2012, 7:17:25 PM9/9/12
to MakerBot Operators
I think my comment "moving past the toys" was a frustrated way of
saying I'd like to build things a little better. An example is a
"clothespin clamp" I've been working on for my job. I call it that
because I started by modeling a clothespin in SolidWorks, then I
modified it. The problems are pretty standard, too. The fulcrums split
at the layers when the spring is under tension, but my last one seems
to be holding good after I widened them. The very small holes for the
spring probes weren't the best, but I saw how emmet made a support for
the hole in the minimalist MK8 extruder, and that worked for my clamp.
The last one I made had missing filament along the sides for some
reason, and that may have been from the 10 hours I spent printing the
Celtic skull with PLA and the nozzle probably needs cleaning.
Just stuff like that. Warping here and there, missing filaments
sometimes, splitting layers. For toys it doesn't matter much, but
trying to get a really nice print for someone, or work can get
frustrating. On a positive note, when my boss saw the last iteration
of my clamp he said "Wow, that is so cool!". BTW: The clamp has five
spring loaded pins in it that contact pads on a PCB. I don't have a
picture yet, but I will link to the SW render. It looks like wood
because, well, it started as a clothespin :-) My goal is to make
awesome stuff for Thingiverse. I'll take it one step at a time.
Thank you for all your support!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thesannio/sets/72157631489374282/with/7966548274/
saying I'd like to build things a little better. An example is a
"clothespin clamp" I've been working on for my job. I call it that
because I started by modeling a clothespin in SolidWorks, then I
modified it. The problems are pretty standard, too. The fulcrums split
at the layers when the spring is under tension, but my last one seems
to be holding good after I widened them. The very small holes for the
spring probes weren't the best, but I saw how emmet made a support for
the hole in the minimalist MK8 extruder, and that worked for my clamp.
The last one I made had missing filament along the sides for some
reason, and that may have been from the 10 hours I spent printing the
Celtic skull with PLA and the nozzle probably needs cleaning.
Just stuff like that. Warping here and there, missing filaments
sometimes, splitting layers. For toys it doesn't matter much, but
trying to get a really nice print for someone, or work can get
frustrating. On a positive note, when my boss saw the last iteration
of my clamp he said "Wow, that is so cool!". BTW: The clamp has five
spring loaded pins in it that contact pads on a PCB. I don't have a
picture yet, but I will link to the SW render. It looks like wood
because, well, it started as a clothespin :-) My goal is to make
awesome stuff for Thingiverse. I'll take it one step at a time.
Thank you for all your support!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thesannio/sets/72157631489374282/with/7966548274/
Adan Akerman
Sep 9, 2012, 7:56:20 PM9/9/12
to make...@googlegroups.com
That looks really great.
Are you familiar with Plastite, aka trilobular, screws, optimized for plastics? They are thread forming, not cutting, and I've been super impressed with how they work in MakerBotted parts. Check out
http://www.mcmaster.com/#tri-lobular-screws/=j815n7 for a page of options. Those can help open up options for making things of multiple parts and joining them securely even without adhesive / solvent bonding.
What scene / view background / scheme / whatever are you using? Again, it looks very good.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MakerBot Operators" group.
Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages