Replicator 1 owners looking for a 5 volt regulator mod here is the best answer!!

[Jetguy]

http://www.mpja.com/DC-Converter-24VDC-In-5VDC-Out/productinfo/19320%20PS/

 

$5 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

MFG: LUCENT (Now TYCO)
P/N: JC030A1-29M
Input: 18-36V DC
Output: 5V DC 6A
Specifications/Features: Sealed DC/DC converter module. .1% line/l.2%oad reg. 150mV P/P ripple, short circuit protected, remote sense, remote On/Off (Low-On/High-Off),500V isolation. UL,CSA, VDE Listed.
L: 2.4" W: 2.28" H: .5" WT: .2

 

 

 

Seriously, you are going to have a hard time searching for a better rated industrial regulator!!!!!

They have 6K of these in stock.

[Clinton Hoines]

Great option for guys in the US, looks like shipping to Canada and even ordering would be a pain and they don't ship anywhere else.

Would something like this work ok? Since I have 2 bots to mod and can find use for the other pieces I'm sure. Just not sure the 2A-3A output is high enough rating?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-pcs-DC-DC-LM2596-Step-Down-Adjustable-Converter-Power-Supply-Module1-3V-35V-/130984316514?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e7f460e62

[Jetguy]

I have the same modules but haven't tried or tested them much. Personally I think they would work fine, but I haven't tested it.

One note, I wrote and extensive review on the exact board from Amazon and they didn't 100% follow the suggested circuit. The output cap is correct but the input cap is a little on the light side for values. I believe it should be 680uF but it's only 220uF just like the output cap.

 

I don't know what EMI, RFI, and ripple values are out of it given the component choices.

I'm not saying it won't work, I'm just trying to share my knowledge after reading the data sheet which is very good and explains how chosen component values should be determined.

[Jetguy]

BTW, Gary's mod used 500mA regulators so we are well above the minimum current rating.

In my own testing, worst case never ever exceed 300mA load even with it powering the 3.3 volt regulator powering a Toshiba Flash air SD card.

So for sure, we know the worst case scenario load and we are magnitudes above it.

[Clinton Hoines]

Given what you know about this piece,would you say it's a better option than the on board regulator?
Would it be as simple as replacing the cap with the higher value?
Thanks for all your help on this for all the rep1 guys, really appreciate it.:)

[Dan Newman]

On 19 Oct 2013 , at 8:31 AM, Clinton Hoines wrote:

> Great option for guys in the US, looks like shipping to Canada and even
> ordering would be a pain and they don't ship anywhere else.
>
> Would something like this work ok? Since I have 2 bots to mod and can find
> use for the other pieces I'm sure. Just not sure the 2A-3A output is high
> enough rating?

FWIW, I'm using a 2A switching DC/DC regulator. Be warned that the 3 pins
on it do not have the same layout/assignment as the 3 pins on the 5V linear
regulator! This part is nowhere near as cheap at $22 US, but the TI rep
sent me a couple as samples.

Texas Instruments PT78HT200 Series DC/DC Switching Regulator

I have it mounted by some (very good) double sided tape along one narrow side
of the device to the inside wooden wall of my Rep 1. I didn't bother dead bugging
it right atop the motherboard.

Personally, I prefer the lower current ones as they'll operate more
efficiently but that's just personal preference on my part.

Dan

[f4ichuck]

I want to do this mod. Do you have a diagram or a picture that I can reference?

Thanks,
-Chuck

[Jetguy]

For diagram, reference the original Mightyboard schematic.

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:16058

 

All we are doing is replacing the stock 5 volt regulator with a DIFFERENT and better rated version. The problem is, the stock regulator tends to blow up. We believe this is because the data sheet does list a 25 Volt max and we are powering it from 24 volts only leaving 1 volt of "headroom".

These switching regulators are rated at greater than 30 Volts.

 

The problem is that the stock regulator has a non standard pinout as seen in the board layout above in the published BRD files.

For example, left to right with the board having the power switch facing to the left the regulator pads on the board are Ground, then 5 volts out (also the big TAB pad), then 24 Volt input.

 

 

7805 regulators and this switching compatible replacement follow the industry standard Input, Ground, Output convention.

 

 

This means you need to "dead bug" the regulator with point to point wiring.

 

A couple of notes on that picture.

I am demonstrating Gary's board http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:78598 in this pic but using my dead bugged external regulator.

I have replaced the stock jumper wire to the 3.3 volt regulator with a safety fuse.

http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/RXE-065/RESETTABLE-CIRCUIT-PROTECTOR-0.65-1.3-AMP/1.html

 

Funny, while searching for a very old photo of the 3.3 volt stock jumper mod the MakerBot shipped on the boards, I found this older mod I developed.

The point here is, the green wire is the stock mod you'll find on every MakerBot Replicator 1. Early on, they knew they could blow the 3.3V regulator from the 24V as the board was designed, so they made and in place mod to cut the trace and feed the 3.3 volt regulator from the 5 volt output. This particular mod uses a linear 7812 12 Volt regulator to reduce the input voltage from 24 volts to 12 volts and feed the stock onboard regulator with 12 Volts which would then not blow it up. That said, the switching regulator is the preferred mod!!

Again, all I did was replace that wire with the above linked resettable fuses as an extra layer of precaution. I don't even know it's needed or helps, it's just something I did because I had a bunch on hand.

[Chuck Joga]

Thanks Jetguy.  Really appreciate it!

-Chuck

Sent from my iPad

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[Ticko]

Hi! 

That is some nice pictures. And thanks for the explanation about the wiring.

Does anyone have a link to a onlinestore where i can buy just the correct switched regulator. Live in Europe

Maybe one of these??

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.XPT78HT200&_nkw=PT78HT200&_sacat=0&_from=R40

[Terence Ang]

My Mightyboard replacement is on the way, I ordered 1 set of Gary's PCB from OSHpark but I need to finish up a print asap.

Here are my temporary measures to prevent a another catastrophic blow up.

1. deadbug a Regulator replacement, using Gary's recommendation (decent price), this will be transferred to the board when it arrives.

2. adding a PTC in place of the green wire, will keep it there even though it is not needed / effective once the Endstop board is installed.

3. remove all the 5V from the End-stop cables, will put it back once the board is ready.

4. apply's Gary's recommendations on LCD ESD grounding.

Did I miss anything? 

Regards,

Terence

[Ticko]

Is this one ok?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PT78HT205H-Texas-Instruments-IC-Isr-Horizontal-5V-78Ht205-/360697135127?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item53fb398017

If it is a go, i will order it so my Rep1 is a little more safe..

Den lördagen den 19:e oktober 2013 kl. 04:42:08 UTC+2 skrev Jetguy:

[Jetguy]

That device you linked is 28V max. We think the stock one blows up because it's 25 Volt MAX. That's only a 3 volt advantage here on paper.

Logic says if you are going to replace the part get the highest rated input that you can hence why I said 30 volts or higher is preferred.

We don't know what the transient voltage is from the system or the 24 volt rated main power brick. 28 volts might be OK it might not.

[Warren Delarme]

Do you have any instructions on how to install this device? I have 3 replicator 1's and need to protect my MB badly and I'm looking for the best way to go about it.

[Jamesarm97]

These are the one's I prefer and have used on a couple of mighty boards:

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/OKI-78SR-5%2F1.5-W36-C/811-2196-5-ND/2259781

[Warren Delarme]

Im not an EE so i need instructions on how to install...I do know how to solder and use a multimeter very well

[Clinton Hoines]

Here you go, just did mine a little while ago real easy thanks to Jetguy. :)
Just match the pin order in the pic with the spec sheet. You don't have to desolder the regulator from the board just cut the pins.

[Warren Delarme]

[Warren Delarme]

Did you use the one jamesarm97 mentioned above?

[sjlane7160]

• Stephen Lane wrote:
•  I did mine last night, I used the parts below
• 
  
• RS Stock No. 739-8290
• Manufacturer Recom
• Mfr. Part No. R-78C5.0-1.0
• 
  

I also installed the 3.3v fuse as per the pics thats

• RS Stock No. 517-6641
• Manufacturer TE Connectivity
• Mfr. Part No. RXEF065

•           I used Jetguys pics as previously linked to & its just completed a 4 hour print as a test
•  by the by while you've got the bottom off it makes sense to lube the inside fan (peel the lable up & drop a spot of oil in the bearing) or replace it if you are that way inclined there are some suggestions that
  
• putting a hole in the side of the bot in line with the internal fan (& installing a fan finger sheild) & blocking the holes in the bottom of the bot while you are at it will help - cool room air not warm chamber air
•  blowing over the Mighty board there are is at least one Thingiverse project on this so have a search

Regards

Stephen

[Jetguy]

Been running mine without a fan after the regulator mod- proof cooling was never the problem, just improperly spec'd parts.

Nothing on the board even gets remotely warm.

[Fastrack]

Jetguy/Stephen:

Good to hear/see Stephen... Did you do the other mods that JetGuy suggested:

1) removing the white wires to all the endstops

2) The diodes to the bot steps? Or are those not deemed required anymore?  

This is the post I'm referring to:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/makerbot/IOhw-msylf4/peAFXgHvvv0J

I understand the principal of the diodes for the bot steps but without a pictorial I'm not sure how they connect.  The fuse & the regulator is easy enough, so is removing the white wires.

I also remember seeing a diode on the power connector as well, but I can't find that info.

Ben

[Jetguy]

No longer do the diode mod unless you really want to.

It was extra levels of protection but found to be not necesary.

 

Diode on the power connector was reverse protection since one could possible force the contacts the wrong way and blow the board if the switch was on.

[Chris Fastie]

I ordered the Lucent regulator Jetguy linked to at MPJA. Is this really the correct component? It's 20% the area of the Mightyboard. It's not easy finding room under there to put it. I might have to print a side car for the Rep 1 to hold this honker.

It has nine pins. Any advice on how to wire this?

[Jetguy]

Sorry, I was going off pure specs since so many people were having issues sourcing in different places.

That said, open the PDF to page 11. http://www.mpja.com/download/JC030A1-29M.pdf 

On the right hand side, you see that you MUST connect the 5 volt sense pins to the output pins. The right side is output and it's pretty clearly labeled.

You can ignore the on/off pin but it's nice to know that if you ground that on/off pin it shuts down the module.

The left side is the input, also pretty clearly marked.

What will happen is that both the input and the output use the same ground. to the mainboard.

[Chris Fastie]

Thanks for pointing to the pdf.

Let's be explicit:

1. Connect pin Vo(+) to pin +SEN (orange line).

2. Connect pin Vo(-) to pin -SEN (orange line).

3. Snip off the old regulator leaving the leads attached to the board.

4. Connect the three leads left from the old regulator:

1. Connect GRD to ____________?
   
2. Connect 5V out to ___________?
   
3. Connect 24V in to ___________?

 

Use long wires so the new huge regulator can be placed somewhere out of the way.

Anything else?

[Fastrack]

Your orange wires are correct now run a wire from Vo (+) to the 5v input on the mightyboard. The 24v from the mightyboard connects to VI (+). You can connect the ground from the mightyboard to either the Vo (-) or VI (+) as they are common.

Ben

[Jetguy]

. Connect the three leads left from the old regulator:

1. Connect GRD to ____________?
   
2. Connect 5V out to ___________?
   
3. 
   

24V from the pad on the picture below (or you can get it from the power switch point as in the picture of a modded board goes to the new module's VI + pin

GND pad on the board connects to BOTH the VI- pin, the VO - Pin, and the -Sen pin.

5V pad in the pic below connects to the VO+ and the SEN+ pins.

Earlier in the thread

Here is a smaller switcher unit wired the same way externally

[Chris Fastie]

Thanks. To confirm, the orange connections below are what Fastrack suggested, and Jetguy added the red connection.

Actually Fastrack said GND goes to Vi- OR Vo- and Jetguy said  Vi- AND Vo-. 

Should I go with all red and orange connections?

[Jetguy]

The device was meant to isolate a high voltage source from a low voltage source.

In our case, we have common ground for BOTH 24V and 5V hence the input and the output must be tied to ground.

So yes, both the red and the orange wiring.

Sorry it's so big. It's an oversight by me but given the cost and the fact it should be a superior clean 5 volt source, I think it's worth it.

[benjami...@gmail.com]

I would agree, but if you have an ohm meter you could test if they are common, but either way it won't hurt to tie them together, it's just one extra piece of wire.. Lol

Ben

Sent from my iPad

[Chris Fastie]

Some bad news.  I wired the new Lucent regulator as in my photo, and the Replicator 1 will not boot.  When I flip the switch, the underside fan starts as usual, and green LEDs on all five stepper motor ports are lit. But the LCD is dark, no startup sound or chamber LEDs.

So there is power to the board, which must mean all my soldered connections are good? 

I cannot find any loose connectors that could have become dislodged during the repair.

I am not sure what to do next.

I miss the startup sound already.

Chris

[Joseph Chiu]

You are apparently not getting the 5 volts output from the converter. The first step is to find out why not.  The fan is powered by the 24 volt side. Can you take some pics of your current set up?

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[Jetguy]

One possibility is the on/off pin may need to be tied ground.

According the data sheet, the modules number ending in 1 are negative logic meaning on is the on/off pin grounded.

That would explain why you aren't getting 5 volts.

[Jetguy]

By part number JC030A1-29M

per the manual

Remote On/Off

(VI = 0 V to 36 V; open collector or

equivalent compatible; signal referenced to

VI(–) terminal. See Figure 22 and Feature

Descriptions.)

JC030x1-M Negative Logic

Logic Low—Module On

Logic High—Module Off

[Jetguy]

In know this is coming off wrong since I did link this module and did recommend it, but I would have wired up everything but the 5 volt out and verified output and operation of the module before connecting to the mightyboard. Just saying, a commons sense bench test on this type of mode before slapping 24 volts and crossing fingers would be wise even for me when I think I know what I'm doing.

When I linked this, I was posting for fellow electronics enthusiasts who I thought would follow best practices and read the datasheet.

Again, it's my fault, I should have just linked 3 pin modules and made it easy but I saw this rather capable module and given the price, it seemed like a good deal and certainly provided adequate protection.
Sorry for any grief this has caused you and we'll work through this a document for anyone else using the module.

[Chris Fastie]

Thanks for your help on this. 

I had more trouble soldering the 24v lead from the board, so I'm surprised it's the 5 v side that is dead. I am going to dig through the hot glue I put over my connections to strengthen them and see if my joints are still any good. 

I might also order a 3 pin regulator.

[Chris Fastie]

Jetguy,

 

I may have missed the message in your post above about figure 22. What's the bottom line?  Do I have to close the on/off circuit?  Or should I move on to another module?

[Jetguy]

From the datasheet, you must ground the on/off pin to turn the module on.

[Chris Fastie]

Should this work? It didn't. It produces the same result; 24 volts to the fan, etc, but apparently no 5 volts to the board. 

[Jetguy]

It should work, and you are sure the module is getting 24 volts?

I'm sorry this is not working out, I assumed the module would be easier to use.

[Chris Fastie]

I was about to start checking continuity and then determine if the new module is getting 24 volts, when I noticed a big scratch through a trace right next to the 24 volt in lead for the old module. This trace is scratched completely through and there is no continuity across it. I was a little surprised that I could have been so sloppy, and a lot more surprised that I could have done that without realizing it. So I started to fix the break with solder, but then I noticed that the scratch is present in a photo I took of the old regulator before I even touched the board.

It looks like someone went to some effort to sever that trace. Is this cut trace supposed to be there? Is it present on other Rep 1s? Should I NOT fix this?

[Ben Withers]

Yep all Mightboards Rev E are like that... They did that right out of the box and installed the green jumper wire instead!   One of the mods Jetguy suggested in another post is to add a fuse link instead of that wire.

Ben

--

[funBart]

Probably the most stupidest question ever, But when using an extra 5V power adapter, and cutting away the voltage regulator, and soldering the 5V lead of the adapter to that  5V cable now coming of the regulator, will that work?

As it seems the Mightyboard needs a heavy 24V and a small 5V power supply and has separate circuits. Wouldn't it be simpler just to add that 5V from a standard power adapter to the 5V circuit?  The voltage regulator mods are now freaking me out with all that inputs, cables, automatic fuses. A simple cut and an extra power adapter in the wall is more understandable for me ;-)

5VBart

[Jetguy]

Sure, but you really want to trust an exeternal adapter that could be just one more thing to get unplugged during a print?

[funBart]

Yes, I have a hot glue gun ;-)

[Ben Withers]

I'd be scared of an external adapter, as unless it's an expensive one they don't output exactly 5V.  Plus unplugging like Jetguy suggested is a bit of an issue :)

Ben

[Clinton Hoines]

It's actually not a big deal at all to do this mod with the simple higher value 5volt reg that is linked in the first few posts. It's 3 legs to cut off the original 5volt regulator then soldier on the new regulator in the correct order (3 legs as well) done. Took longer to get the bot flipped over and the bottom access panel off than to do the mod. ;)

[Dan Newman]

On 15/01/2014, 7:32 AM, Chris Fastie wrote:
> I was about to start checking continuity and then determine if the new
> module is getting 24 volts, when I noticed a big scratch through a trace
> right next to the 24 volt in lead for the old module. This trace is
> scratched completely through and there is no continuity across it. I was a
> little surprised that I could have been so sloppy, and a lot more surprised
> that I could have done that without realizing it. So I started to fix the
> break with solder, but then I noticed that the scratch is present in a
> photo I took of the old regulator before I even touched the board.
>

> <https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-sEfTmZ5O2TY/Utao9tSZK3I/AAAAAAAADhU/Qg13HFoypRA/s1600/Trace.jpg>

>
> It looks like someone went to some effort to sever that trace. Is this cut
> trace supposed to be there? Is it present on other Rep 1s? Should I NOT fix
> this?

That's the trace MBI cut so that the 3v3 regulator has 5V for Vin instead
of 24V for Vin. That regulator can handle 24V as input but has to dissipate
the difference between 24V and 3.3V as heat. It needs better heat sinking
to do that reliably and since a ready source of 5V was available, MBI fixed
the design error after the fact.

Dan

[Chris Fastie]

 Fastrack: Thanks for confirming that I didn't gouge through that trace. I feel a little better now.

 Clinton: "...not a big deal at all..." sounds really good to me right now.

The new module seems to be doing what it is supposed to according to these observations:

I disconnected the 5v out pin on the new module so it was not sending anything to the board, but had the module pins wired as in the earlier photo and connected to the other two leads on the board (24v in and GND). When the Replicator switch is on, the module is getting 24 volts (multimeter between Vi (+) and Vi (-)) and the module is producing 5 volts (multimeter between Vo (+) and Vo (-)).  That seemed promising, so I connected the 5 volt out pin to the board. Still no boot.

I did noticed two green LEDs that were not on during my first tests:

Two out of three is probably not a good sign here. I'm not sure what those LEDs mean, but I really wish the 5V one was lit.

So the new module has connectivity from all three leads from the original module location, and the new module is producing 5 volts, but the board is not getting what it needs. 

Any suggestions for next steps?

 

[Dan Newman]

On 15/01/2014, 8:30 AM, Ben Withers wrote:
> I'd be scared of an external adapter, as unless it's an expensive one they
> don't output exactly 5V.

Correct a mundo. And the voltage can wander up and down. While some of the logic
chips won't care (too much) about the fluctuations, the stepper driver chips may as
they are doing current measurements. And their reference voltages may vary as well.

Dan

[funBart]

On Wednesday, 15 January 2014 17:30:50 UTC+1, Fastrack wrote:

I'd be scared of an external adapter, as unless it's an expensive one they don't output exactly 5V.  Plus unplugging like Jetguy suggested is a bit of an issue :)

Ah, that's a reason I understand why it isn't a good idea!

But further: hot glue is my friend (for the cat as well)

GlueForLifeBart

 

[Jetguy]

FWIW, there is a massive mistake in the board anyway regarding the LEDS.

Normally, one would put the LED on the output of the regulator to verify the voltage was present, NOT the input, but on the 3.3V, they simply duplicated the 24V led path.

So, 24 and 3.3 volt will light up if 24 volts is present.

 

On the other hand, early on in the boards life, they were blowing 3.3 volt regulators for the saem reason the stock 24 volt regulator blows, 24 volts is simply too much to drop to 5 or 3.3 volts across a linear regulator.

So at the factory, they cut that trace that would normally supply 24 volts directly to the 3.3 colt regulator, and then jumpered the 3.3 volt regulator to use the output.

 

To recap, IGNORE the 3.3 volt LED, it's not ever reading the 3.3 volt line. It and the 24V LED simply indicate when 24 volts is present.

 

Of course if 5 volt isn't lighting up then nothing is happening. you haven't shown a picture of the wiring to the board pads and how you removed or disabled the existing regulator.

For all I know, you are shorting out the new module and that's why 5 volts drops.

[Gary Crowell]

I suspect Jetguy is slightly misremembering the fiddling.  When Makerbot cut that trace to the 3.3V regulator, that trace also supplied 24V to the 24V LED.  After the jumper was installed the 3.3V regulator and the 24V LED were both supplied by 5V.  So I suspect you actually do have 5V there supplied from your module.

The 5V LED (and the 5V to the rest of the board) is supplied by 5V, but by a different path, not via that jumper. The question is, why don't you have 5V to the rest of the board.  So my question is: Is the jumper wire, and the 5V wire from your module both connected to the center pin of the old 5V regulator? 

If your 5V supply wire is only connected to the jumper wire, it's not getting to the rest of the board.

Gary

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[Gary Crowell]

heh, that should be 'slightly misremembering the LED fiddling.'

[Gary Crowell]

Good grief.  Jetguy, I had always assumed that this was a 4-layer board with an internal power and ground.  I'd just assumed they weren't shown in the Eagle files.  But looking now I see a complete 5V distribution on the top and bottom layers.  Is this all the power distribution there is?  If so, even discounting all it's other flaws, it is a freaking miracle that this board ever works at all.  

Gary

[Joseph Chiu]

Well, it did start out as an open source project by people that were inventing everything from scratch.. ;-)

[Dan Newman]

On 15/01/2014, 11:27 AM, Joseph Chiu wrote:
> Well, it did start out as an open source project by people that were
> inventing everything from scratch.. ;-)

Well, I've always blamed this board on the supervision. MBI provided
a summer internship for an Electrical Engineer starting his final
year of college. That's great and was assuredly a valuable experience
for the intern. However, a company providing such an internship needs
to provide mentoring and oversight by a veteran of the field. That
doesn't seem to have been the case.

Dan

[Jetguy]

 Ok, yes, I was wrong, I knew something was very messed up on the LEDs. Any a HUGE WHY they cannot be trusted for troubleshooting.

 

When they cut the trace that supplied the 24 volts to the 3.3 volt regulator, this also cut the path to the 24V indicator LED.

So when they connect the input of the 3.3 volt regulator to the output of the 5 volt regulator, it now indicated  5 volt input into the 3.3 volt regulator.

[Jetguy]

Ok, here is the board and the implications of the factory cut trace.

 

Now, here is my concern. having the schematic in front of us the error is becoming clearer.

 

 

Basically, this is a failure to properly connect the 5 volt regulator ouput to the board.

What has happened is that the 5 volt is connected as input to the 3.3 volt regulator as indicated by the 24V LED lighting up.

So in theory, we really do have 3.3 volts. What we do not have is 5 volts going into the proper 5 volt spot.

[Jetguy]

I think the FIX is to wire the 5 volt output NOT to the tiny middle bad where the old 5 volt regualtor sat and the jumper wire that connects to the 3.3 volt circuit was also connectoed but rather, solder the 5 volt wire from the module to the big tab of the now dead 5 volt regulator. Again, that original regulator had a non standard pinout where the TAB was output of 5 Volts as opposed to the TAB being ground on most 78XX series regulators.

[Gary Crowell]

Jetguy, do you have a 'scope and a working board handy?   If so I was wondering if you could take a look at the step/dir signals to a botstep and see if the setup times would support the DRV8825?  The critical timings are:

• minimum step low duration = 1.9us
• minimum step hi duration = 1.9us
• minimum setup time dir change to step rising = 650ns
• minimum hold time dir after step rising = 650ns

I've just finished moving and my scope is somewhere in a pile of boxes in the garage.  It might not emerge until the Spring thaw.

The part that bothers me the most is that the same board/layout is being supplied to all those FF Creators...

Gary

[Chris Fastie]

I think Gary and Jetguy are correct that my connection from the new module to the 5 volt circuit on the board (middle lead on the old module) was bad. I confirmed connectivity through the green wire to the 3.3 v regulator, but not necessarily to the board. 

When I clipped off the leads to the old regulator, the connections to the board were stressed and weakened. After soldering new wires to the clipped leads, I covered it all in hot glue to protect the fragile connections. So I couldn't really access the connections to the board anymore. I never pulled the old regulator off, and it got involved in the hot glue.

So I just removed those three connections. Unfortunately, everything came up with the hot glue, so there is not much to solder to anymore.  If I remove the old regulator, connecting 5v out will be easy.

How do I remove the old regulator? Just yank?

Can the little green wire to the 3.3 v regulator also connect to the big pad under the old regulator?.

Is there another good place to connect to 24v in?

Is there another good place to connect to ground?

Is there another good place to connect to 5v in so I don't have to remove the old regulator?

Thanks for your help. I guess there is still hope.

[Dan Newman]

On 15/01/2014, 1:33 PM, Chris Fastie wrote:
> I think Gary and Jetguy are correct that my connection from the new module
> to the 5 volt circuit on the board (middle lead on the old module) was bad.
> I confirmed connectivity through the green wire to the 3.3 v regulator, but
> not necessarily to the board.
>
> When I clipped off the leads to the old regulator, the connections to the
> board were stressed and weakened. After soldering new wires to the clipped
> leads, I covered it all in hot glue to protect the fragile connections. So
> I couldn't really access the connections to the board anymore. I never
> pulled the old regulator off, and it got involved in the hot glue.
>
> So I just removed those three connections. Unfortunately, everything came
> up with the hot glue, so there is not much to solder to anymore. If I
> remove the old regulator, connecting 5v out will be easy.

Double check from the spec sheet, but I'm fairly certain the 5V regulator's
tab is Vout (+5V). You can see if the tab connects to the 5V rail and if
so, solder your new incoming 5V to the tab.

> How do I remove the old regulator? Just yank?

If assembled correctly, it's tab is soldered to the board. It won't yank
up without removing copper from that side of the board. Not a good idea.

> Can the little green wire to the 3.3 v regulator also connect to the big
> pad under the old regulator?.

Possibly.

> Is there another good place to connect to 24v in?

I soldered my 24V IN to the two contacts from the power jack housing.
(I have CNC-style 14.6A @ 24V PSU's on my Replicators.)

> Is there another good place to connect to ground?

And I soldered my ground IN to the outer metal case of the power jack
housing. (I have a good soldering iron and I turned it's temp up to the
675F neighborhood.)

> Is there another good place to connect to 5v in so I don't have to remove
> the old regulator?

I cut the Vin leg/pin off of my regulator and soldered my 5V in to the
old regulator's Vout leg/pin. (I recall that as being the center leg/pin
on the 5V regulator, but check the data sheet.) [I used a very tiny
DC/DC converter for my 5V. It's dead bugged to the inside of the wooden
case with a tiny bit of double sided tape.]

Dan

[Jetguy]

No, you've already caused enough damage, please don't try to remove the regulator.

All you need to do is solder the 5 volt wire from the external regulator to the tab of the current regulator on the board. As I said, the ENTIRE pad is 5 volts and that connects to the main 5 volt rail. IN fact, I'll have to look and see where the via and the trace you damaged went to but it may no be important.

The other part is that the 3.3 volt input wire needs extended so it too can reach the tab.

[Dan Newman]

I also scuffed the surface a bit with some fine sandpaper and made
liberal use of soldering flux (e.g., flux pen). That case connects to the
board's ground at four solder pads. You could solder to at least
two of those pads. At the end of the day, you want the ground return
path to have as little resistance as possible and hence sufficient
gauge wire with good total contact area with the board.

Dan

[Jetguy]

Also, soldering to the case of the power input jack is probably not the best place to  pick up ground. The reason is, understand what happens if the ground comes loose while powered. It may not happen on this module because it is isolated internally we hope but a regulator REQUIRES ground to regulate the voltage. No ground, most regulators will pass through the 24 volts blowing the board sky high, the very thing we were trying to prevent.

So again, MAKE SURE THE GROUND WIRE IS SOLID CONNECTION.

[Dan Newman]

On 15/01/2014, 1:51 PM, Jetguy wrote:
> Also, soldering to the case of the power input jack is probably not the
> best place to pick up ground. The reason is, understand what happens if
> the ground comes loose while powered.

And so if you don't have proper tools like I do, you don't necessarily want
to do it the way I mentioned (using the case). Mine ain't coming off anytime
soon, but I had tools up to the task.

Dan

[Jetguy]

Sorry Dan, I was ready too fast to see who said they did it that way. I just was trying to give out some general ideas and gotchas that can come back to bite folks.

[Chris Fastie]

Okay:

• 5v wire to the stub of the middle pin of the old regulator (along with the little green wire to the 3.3 v regulator).
  
• GND wire to the outside surface of the power jack housing (with careful preparation, etc).
  
• 24 v wire: I don't see the "two contacts from the power jack housing" that Dan mentioned. Is Dan's board different, or are they on the other side of the board? I have not yet seen the other side of the board. Are there other options for the 24 v wire?
  

Thanks,

Chris

[Dan Newman]

> - 24 v wire: I don't see the "two contacts from the power jack housing"

> that Dan mentioned. Is Dan's board different, or are they on the other side
> of the board? I have not yet seen the other side of the board. Are there
> other options for the 24 v wire?

I believe they are on the underside. IIRC, four marking corners of
a square which are the grounds from the case. And two to the inside
which are the 24V. But, I could be wrong -- was about a year ago
when I modified a couple of boards.

Dan

[Dan Newman]

> - 24 v wire: I don't see the "two contacts from the power jack housing"

> that Dan mentioned. Is Dan's board different, or are they on the other side
> of the board? I have not yet seen the other side of the board. Are there
> other options for the 24 v wire?

Here's a snap from the board layout. That big fat blue trace is the 24V,

Dan

[Jamesarm97]

Gary, I am currently using two of the pololu stepper modules with the DRV8825 chips on my mighty board and it is working just fine as far as I can tell.

[Gary Crowell]

Thanks, good to know.  I wouldn't imagine the timing to be that tight,but 'ya never know.

Gary

[Chris Fastie]

It looks like the other side of the board has good places to connect the GND wire and the 24 volt wire from the new module (lower photo). What do you think about instead using the legs on the power switch on the top of the board (upper photo)? Are any of the choices in the photo unacceptable?

There is not much left of the stub on the old regulator to solder the 5 volt wire (top photo), but it can be done. Are there any other options for the 5 volt wire (the third leg on the switch?)?

As far as I know I haven't broken anything else in a couple of hours, so I am feeling good.

[Dan Newman]

On 15/01/2014, 4:17 PM, Chris Fastie wrote:
> It looks like the other side of the board has good places to connect the
> GND wire and the 24 volt wire from the new module (lower photo). What do
> you think about instead using the legs on the power switch on the top of
> the board (upper photo)?

I know that on one of the Rep 1's I modded, I went to the power switch. That
because I didn't want to bother pulling the board. (Mind you, that power switch
is not properly rated for the currents involved, but that's another story.)

> There is not much left of the stub on the old regulator to solder the 5
> volt wire (top photo), but it can be done. Are there any other options for
> the 5 volt wire (the third leg on the switch?)?

Soldering to the tab can be a pain: not the best surface to deal with so
I understand the difficulty you're looking at. Also, the darn thing
doubles as a small heat dissipator and so it can be a pain to solder
some times.

3rd leg on the switch? Did you mean 3rd leg on the regulator?

Dan

[Dan Newman]

P.S. Theory says, you could lightly sand away the solder mask around the tab, exposing
the copper clad and solder the 5V to it. Clearly that whole region is good: I can see
it flowing over to the smoothing capacitor above the 3v3 regulator.

Dan

[Chris Fastie]

 3rd leg on the switch?  Did you mean 3rd leg on the regulator? 

I meant the third leg on the power switch, but I guess it is not 5v.

I already have the board out, so it is easy to solder to the other side. Which of those soldered contacts under the switch and power jack would you choose for GND and 24v (I numbered them in the photo below)?  Should I use more than one for GND?

 

Do you think anywhere in the yellow area in the photo there is copper under the solder mask I can connect the 5 volt wire to?

[Dan Newman]

On 15/01/2014, 6:42 PM, Chris Fastie wrote:
>
>>
>> 3rd leg on the switch? Did you mean 3rd leg on the regulator?
>
>
> I meant the third leg on the power switch, but I guess it is not 5v.

It's a single pole, double throw switch. So, when wired correctly, 24V
goes in the common contact and comes out one pole when the switch is in
one position and out the other pole when the switch is in the other position.

In your diagram, you showed one pole being tied to ground. If that's indeed
the case, that would seem to be a mistake and if the switch mechanically fails
may send 24V direct to ground. If you don't use a pole, you leave it alone.
That things work indicate that they are feeding the 24V into a pole and then
drawing it out the common contact. That then has the effect of seeing +24V
when the switch is in one position and seeing "ground" when the switch is
in the other position. Maybe they wanted that for real? Odd, since these
cheap mechanical rocker switches can and do break in such a way that the
metal contacting plate can close both poles at once

> I already have the board out, so it is easy to solder to the other side.
> Which of those soldered contacts under the switch and power jack would you
> choose for GND and 24v (I numbered them in the photo below)? Should I use
> more than one for GND?

I would take the ground off of one or two of the power inlet's contacts soldered
to the board: that's the actual ground presentation. You can send the 24V in
to the contacts from the power inlet or to the rocker switch pin to which it
feeds.

>
> Do you think anywhere in the yellow area in the photo there is copper under
> the solder mask I can connect the 5 volt wire to?

The entire board is copper clad. The process of turning it into a circuit
board is one of removing copper. That whole area is copper there minus the
drill hits.

Dan

[Joseph Chiu]

Looking at that, pad labeled "5" does not look like ground.  There is clearance all around the pad, and I don't see any connections.  In contrast, 1 through 4 shows connections to the ground pour via thermal reliefs.  (If the reliefs were not there, soldering those pins would be difficult, as the heat would dissipate into the pour.)

Pad 5 exists solely to allow the switch to be mounted onto the board AFAICT.

The LM1084's tab is Vout - so the 5V should go there.  It would be good practice to verify that against another location on the board that is on the 5V rail.

[Chris Fastie]

Well that was fun, but it didn't work. Photos of the connections I made are below. 

As soon as the Replicator is plugged in (power switch off):

• The LCD display is lit with blocks but no characters.
  
• All three green LEDs are lit (3.3v, 5v, 24v).
  
• A red "Overheat" LED is lit. (Yikes)
  

When the power switch is turned on, the fan starts and the green LEDs for each of the five stepper motors are lit. No sound, no chamber LEDs.

So that's definitely progress, but maybe not in the direction I should be headed.

[Dan Newman]

On 15/01/2014, 9:44 PM, Chris Fastie wrote:
> Well that was fun, but it didn't work. Photos of the connections I made are
> below.
>
> As soon as the Replicator is plugged in (power switch off):
>
>

> - The LCD display is lit with blocks but no characters.

That means the module has powered up and received no instructions. Shortly
after the microprocessor starts, it sends a "clear display" command to it.

> - All three green LEDs are lit (3.3v, 5v, 24v).

Could be good.

> - A red "Overheat" LED is lit. (Yikes)

There's no functional overheat LED. I think that may be one of the
debugging LEDs. There's certainly no code in the microprocessor
to turn on an "overheat" LED.

> When the power switch is turned on, the fan starts and the green LEDs for
> each of the five stepper motors are lit. No sound, no chamber LEDs.

Sounds like the microprocessor isn't functioning. Otherwise, the LCD display
would clear after a second or two and the default color choice would be sent
to the RGB LEDs. I'm surprised the chamber LEDs aren't red -- that is their
normal power-up color which sticks briefly until the microprocessor boots
enough to send a different color choice. That you see no color on them suggests
that the logic chips for it may not be functioning either.

You might want to find a 5V test point on the board and see if you see 5V
between it and ground. However, as you've been told, it's not unusual for
the blown 5V regulator to take out some of the logic chips.

Dan

[Jamesarm97]

I can't tell clearly but I do see some solder on that cut trace going from 24v to the 3.3 reg and 24v led. Was that soldered back then removed again? Make sure that is still cut because you are applying 5v to that point and if that trace is shorted then you will have 24v and 5v tied together. I kind of see the cut still so it may just be solder on each side from your testing.

[Chris Fastie]

Dnewman: Thanks for the diagnosis.

Jamesarm97: Yes, good eyes. There is some solder there from when I started to fix that cut trace. It is still well severed though.

There is a substantial change in the symptoms of my Mightyboard. The previous symptoms were observed with the board not quite back in place on the black plastic pins, and the reset button was being depressed by the plywood case (the button did not align with its access hole). Now that the button is not being pressed, the LCD works normally, the systems boots, the startup menu appears, and the three-tone startup song plays. The board has come back to life!

However, this all happens with the power switch turned off.  As soon as the machine is plugged into power, the system boots. But there is apparently no 24 volt power because the fan does not start and the chamber LEDs do not light. 

I decided not to flip the switch on (I guess I am still optimistic that this board can be salvaged, and I am becoming much less bold).  The irregular behavior suggests that something is sufficiently wrong that it should be diagnosed before powering up the rest of the circuit. 

So now the symptoms are:

As soon as the Replicator is plugged in (power switch off):

All three green LEDs are lit (3.3v, 5v, 24v).

A red "Overheat" LED is lit.

The LCD is lit.

The three-tone startup song is played.

The system boots and the startup menu is displayed on the LCD.

The lower fan does not start.

No chamber LEDs are lit.

This hot state with the power switch off has got to be diagnostic of something obvious (to someone other than me).

Maybe due to the contacts I chose for connecting the wires to the new module?

This seems like a very positive development, but I am not sure what to do next.

[Joseph Chiu]

You are almost there!  Just move your 24V away from the center leg on the switch to the one on the switched side -- the leg closest to the power connector.  The way you are wired right now, you're getting the 24V that is directly coming in from the power connector (which you labeled as "2" and "3"), before it is being switched on/off.

[Joseph Chiu]

p.s. I think I can speak for many of us here holding our breaths -- phew!

[Chris Fastie]

Thanks Joseph,

I'm not sure which new contact you are suggesting:

 the one on the switched side -- the leg closest to the power connector.  

Here is my photo again. I currently have 24v connected to number "2" in red. Should I change it to number "3" in red? Number "3" is also the center leg on the power switch which can be accessed from the top of the board.

 

[Joseph Chiu]

In the upper half of that image, you have the "left" leg labeled as GND (which I am quite sure is NOT ground), then the center as 24 Volt, and the right as unlabeled (over the "olt" of the 24 Volt label).    It is that unlabeled pin that you want. Just to be sure, with the power supply not connected, measure the resistance between the center and right legs as you flip the switch back and forth.  You should see that the switched line will connect and disconnect from the input 24V line.

--

[Chris Fastie]

Yes, with the power switch off, the center and right legs are not connected (but center and left are). With the power switch on, the center and right legs are connected. So I will solder the 24v wire to the right leg.

[Joseph Chiu]

5... 4... 3... 2... 1...

:)

On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 7:21 PM, Chris Fastie <cfa...@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes, with the power switch off, the center and right legs are not connected (but center and left are). With the power switch on, the center and right legs are connected. So I will solder the 24v wire to the right leg.

--

[Ben Withers]

Right leg from looking on the top, left on the bottom. To confirm.. To the leg circled in PURPLE in this picture.

On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 10:21 PM, Chris Fastie <cfa...@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes, with the power switch off, the center and right legs are not connected (but center and left are). With the power switch on, the center and right legs are connected. So I will solder the 24v wire to the right leg.

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[Dan Newman]

On 16/01/2014, 7:23 PM, Joseph Chiu wrote:
> 5... 4... 3... 2... 1...

Yes, but which Thunderbird machine you send out for this Rescue?
Hopefully not the Firefly (Pod 3 and 6, depending upon the episode).

FAB.

[Chris Fastie]

 RESCUE MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

Completely normal bootup sequence achieved.

I have not tested anything yet (the machine is still upside down) but it appears that I again have a machine to test.

Thanks forever to everyone. That was an exciting process. And with that behemoth power module, it might just be that I now have a bullet proof system. Well, okay, I guess it's still a Mightyboard Rev E.

I have been pretty hard on myself today, but it looks like the day will end well. I think I am going to sleep better tonight than last night.

Your generous help is much appreciated.

Chris

[Fozzie]

Glad to see a happy ending to this for you!

[Chris Fastie]

MISSION DEBRIEFING

My newly regulated Replicator has made several successful prints, so it looks like I am out of the woods. Here is a summary of my foibles in case anyone else wants to try this upgrade.

1.       Early trouble:  The first thing I did got me into trouble. I snipped off the three pins of the old regulator with good wire snips, and this torqued their soldered connections to the copper traces in the PCB.  By the time I had all three new wires soldered to the severed pins, the connections to the traces were flimsy at best. Apparently the 5 volt (center) connection broke in the process, and this cascaded into later malfunction and confusion. I am not sure how to avoid this problem.  Grind the old pins through with Dremel? Hot glue the soldered connections before I start cutting?
   
2.        RTFM:  The new Lucent regulator module has nine pins, not three like the original. It has a 20 page spec sheet which you have to consult in order to make the proper connections.  I have a PhD in science, but no EE training, so that spec sheet is completely uninterpretable to me.  Fortunately, folks on this list were willing to take the time to read the sheet and translate for me. Thank you. However, the first time I hooked up the new module and plugged in the Replicator, the module was wired incorrectly. It turns out that no damage was done, but it took a couple of hard days to confirm that. I should have tested the output of the module before I sent it to the Mightyboard.
   
3.        Plan B: When the connections to the PCB were suspect, I removed them and started over. The contacts for the original regulator were no longer suitable places to make good connections, so I had to find alternate places to connect to a 24 volt source, a 5 volt input to the board, and ground. That’s easy if you know the board or know how to read the published schematic.  Again, I thank folks on this forum who walked me through this. It was revealing to watch how your posts got progressively more explicit as you realized who you were dealing with.
   
4.        An unfortunate event:  After removing the board to solder new connections underneath, I replaced it temporarily to test again. The test failed, and it took a day to learn that the reason was that the reset button was being partly depressed because it was not aligned with its access hole in the plywood case. The symptoms caused by this unlikely occurrence mimicked the failure of logic components and convinced me, and I think others, that the worst had happened.  
   

I was stunned when the machine booted normally; I was not expecting that. I was and still am very grateful to those on the forum who helped make this happen.

Below are images of the connections that seem to work. Give it a try.

Chris

 

[Chuck Joga]

Thanks for the write up Chris. It was exciting  to really watch this unfold. Glad everything worked out for you

-Chuck

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[Fredini]

Hey Guys, 

I am late to the party and have just bought the part from MPJA for my 3 Rep1's. Scrolling through this thread has me a little confused. Before I dive in, has anyone done a video or one page write up on this? I want to do the upgrade but am not a big electronics guy and don't want to F* up my babies! 

fred

[Dan Beavers]

This is a description of my experience: http://publiclab.org/notes/danbeavers/03-07-2014/makerbot-rev1-5v-power-upgrade

Dan B

[kenneth w grigsby]

On Saturday, October 19, 2013 10:58:39 AM UTC-5, Jetguy wrote:

BTW, Gary's mod used 500mA regulators so we are well above the minimum current rating.

In my own testing, worst case never ever exceed 300mA load even with it powering the 3.3 volt regulator powering a Toshiba Flash air SD card.

So for sure, we know the worst case scenario load and we are magnitudes above it.

 

On Saturday, October 19, 2013 11:55:47 AM UTC-4, Jetguy wrote:

I have the same modules but haven't tried or tested them much. Personally I think they would work fine, but I haven't tested it.

One note, I wrote and extensive review on the exact board from Amazon and they didn't 100% follow the suggested circuit. The output cap is correct but the input cap is a little on the light side for values. I believe it should be 680uF but it's only 220uF just like the output cap.

 

I don't know what EMI, RFI, and ripple values are out of it given the component choices.

I'm not saying it won't work, I'm just trying to share my knowledge after reading the data sheet which is very good and explains how chosen component values should be determined.

 

On Saturday, October 19, 2013 11:31:48 AM UTC-4, Clinton Hoines wrote:

Great option for guys in the US, looks like shipping to Canada and even ordering would be a pain and they don't ship anywhere else.

Would something like this work ok? Since I have 2 bots to mod and can find use for the other pieces I'm sure. Just not sure the 2A-3A output is high enough rating?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-pcs-DC-DC-LM2596-Step-Down-Adjustable-Converter-Power-Supply-Module1-3V-35V-/130984316514?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e7f460e62


On Friday, 18 October 2013 20:42:08 UTC-6, Jetguy wrote:

http://www.mpja.com/DC-Converter-24VDC-In-5VDC-Out/productinfo/19320%20PS/

 

$5 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

MFG: LUCENT (Now TYCO)
P/N: JC030A1-29M
Input: 18-36V DC
Output: 5V DC 6A
Specifications/Features: Sealed DC/DC converter module. .1% line/l.2%oad reg. 150mV P/P ripple, short circuit protected, remote sense, remote On/Off (Low-On/High-Off),500V isolation. UL,CSA, VDE Listed.
L: 2.4" W: 2.28" H: .5" WT: .2

 

 

 

Seriously, you are going to have a hard time searching for a better rated industrial regulator!!!!!

They have 6K of these in stock.

[kenneth w grigsby]