Well, that was rude...

[delsydsoftware]

I put in an order with Bucktown Polymers for some UV cured resin, because I was working on a cool idea for a resin-based toolhead for the replicator. I found the site on the RepRap wiki, so I figured that someone must have ordered from them at some point. Anyway, I put the order in on Oct 21st, the money was taken from Paypal, and I heard nothing from them. Since it was a Paypal transaction, I could check the status of the order and send a message through the resolution center. So, I sent this message, which I thought was polite:

"I put in this order on October 21st, and the payment cleared. I haven't received the UV resin I ordered, and I haven't received any shipping confirmations. If you are unable to ship this out in the next couple days, I'd like for you to cancel my order and refund my money.

Thanks!"

4 minutes later, my account was credited and the case was closed with this message:

"From Seller - O.N.E. Technologies

11/15/2012 19:52 PST

Please don't order from us again.

Thank you!"

I appreciate the prompt account credit (took all of 4 minutes, lol), but otherwise, that is just terrible service. At no time did I get any emails or information regarding the status of the order other than a payment notification for Paypal, and with holidays coming up, I couldn't risk having UV sensitive resin sitting on my doorstep for days. It's a shame, because I did have a pretty cool idea for applying the resin and curing it on the fly. I guess I'll have to find another source for the polymers.

[Bottleworks]

Maybe many should email them at in...@bucktownpolymers.com and ask why they would take the money, but not ship.

[Hammerhead]

Not to make excuses for their reply or their decision, but if you were on the receiving end of that email, I can see how it might be interpreted by them as abrupt.  Since you posted this here, I'll assume you're asking for constructive feedback.

My take is that they were as curt with you as you were with them.  I also have had many experiences with sellers who don't get their orders out on time, but I take a totally different approach.  Instead of the way you worded your email, you might have tried something like:

"Hello!

I'm following up on an order placed on month/day for [item(s)], but have not yet received a confirmation.  Just following up to verify you received the order and request a ship date, as I have a project pending.  Feel free to contact me via email or phone at xxx-xxx-xxxx.

Thanks in advance for your help!

Regards,
John Doe"

You're welcome to do what you want, but this approach has worked for me well in the past.  Just thought I'd suggest it to see if it might be worthwhile for you in the future.

Good luck!

On Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:47:01 PM UTC-5, delsydsoftware wrote:

[Jetty]

If you're using the paypal resolution center, then I can see why you
ticked them off.

What happens is a charge back fee plus the amount you paid gets
immediately deducted
off their paypal account. I.E. You've immediately cost them more than
you've paid them.

Often with paypal, neither party gets the refund and when they do,
often it's the vendor that
pays even when the customer is wrong. If you paid by credit card via
paypal, then generally
they have to pay out regardless of who's right/wrong, because credit
cards can chargeback.
Also a history of customers complaining via the paypal resolution
center will give the vendor a
bad rating.

So it's kind of like you going into their bank account without their
permission and removing more
than you paid.

A better approach is to contact them by phone, their contact page or
email first. Then by all means, if you
don't get a reply and you think they've stolen your money, use the
resolution center.

Occasionally I've had customers do what your describing to me before,
i.e. resolution center with no
prior communication and although I explain in more detail as to the
reason and why, they are not
welcome to purchase from me in the future either, if they've made no
attempt to resolve their issue
via other means. I ship virtual goods immediately, have a 7 day trial
refund and after that date my T&C's
don't provide refunds, but despite that, people still try doing that
occasionally, and they get their money.

If they just contacted me first and said, give me a refund, I'd give
it to them to save the chargeback fee and
black mark despite the T&C's saying otherwise. Refunding in paypal is
free for the vendor with a timeframe.

Often it's things like, they paid with a different paypal email than
the email they used for their order,
or our emails have ended up in their over aggressive spam systems.
Sometimes they just think that
the resolution center gets them results. Either way, when a customer
is costing you and putting a black mark
against you, you don't want to do business with them in the future.

Also, issues chargebacks via credit card is the same kind of problem,
money gets taken and fee added for the vendor.

Not minimizing your situation, they should have communicated with
you. But maybe they did, and you didn't get it and
they were having a bad day.

You could always phone them, find out what went down, and offer to pay
their chargeback fee if you want to do business
with them in the future.

On Nov 16, 8:09 am, Hammerhead <rkba...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Not to make excuses for their reply or their decision, but if you were on
> the receiving end of that email, I can see how it might be interpreted by
> them as abrupt.  Since you posted this here, I'll assume you're asking for
> constructive feedback.
>
> My take is that they were as curt with you as you were with them.  I also
> have had many experiences with sellers who don't get their orders out on
> time, but I take a totally different approach.  Instead of the way you
> worded your email, you might have tried something like:
>

> *"Hello!

>
> I'm following up on an order placed on month/day for [item(s)], but have
> not yet received a confirmation.  Just following up to verify you received
> the order and request a ship date, as I have a project pending.  Feel free
> to contact me via email or phone at xxx-xxx-xxxx.
>
> Thanks in advance for your help!
>
> Regards,
> John Doe"

> *

[delsydsoftware]

Unfortunately, none of that is clear on the Paypal website. This is all that it says:

"If there's a problem with this transaction, you can attempt to resolve it directly with the seller by reporting it in the Resolution Center within 45 days of the transaction."

It just sounds like they are a mediator. It doesn't say that it's going to yank the cash out of their account with a chargeback fee. I'll contact them and pay back the charge back.

And my intention wasn't to be curt. There is a limit to how much text you can enter, so I wanted to get all of the facts out in the limited space provided.
 

[Bottleworks]

Yea, it doesn't because what you did has nothing to do with that.  The resolution center is a mediation format.  These guys are confusing the resolution center with escalating it to a claim.  All you did was use the resolution center as a means of communication and the seller, under his own free well, gave your refund.  They didn't lose any money.  If you escalated it to a claim, then they may have lost money and have been given a poor record.  There is nothing wrong with using the resolution center.  It allows for a solid record to be available for PayPal if you have to escalate a claim.  Avoiding the resolution center and using non-record keeping communications, such as a phone, may cause you to lose money if you get screwed over by a seller.  Always have a record. 

[RocketSled]

I'm in customer service, I manage technical support for my company (a SSD manufacturer).  Unfortunately, I have to deal with the occasional rude customer.  I know "rude".  The OP's email didn't strike me as the least bit inappropriate or unreasonable.  

And even if the email had been unreasonable, the vendor should not have responded this way. You place an order, make payment in good faith, then hear nothing for 3+ weeks, you're within your rights to ask for status however you damn well please!  "Here's your money, get lost" is IMO inexcusable irrespective of how the inquiry was phrased.  

What happened to "the customer is always right"?

[Avandss]

i dont think your being rude at all!!!

and i dont agree that you should be super nice after 3 weeks and have to "suck up" to them

your email was respectful and to the point, as it should be. Respectful being the key word, they on the other hand were not respectful what so ever

now what they responded.... RUDE..... wow....

[Elbot]

I find the rudeness and craziness to be true of any Hobby business. They don't depend on it for a living so they don't care about customer service because you're a fellow hobbyist that they're helping out for a fee, not a customer (at least that's how they see it). I haven't been around 3d printing much, but this has been my experience with people who sell guns here in the deep south. One guy who sells 50 cal BMG stuff I had placed an order with, I waited 2 months patiently. I asked him if my stuff was ready and he said, "2 more months." Ok, 60 days after that, I ask him politely again and he said that I was stressing him out too much and hung up on me. I asked my lawyer to write him a letter and he mails me a refund with a letter full of 4 letter words ending with "don't order from us again!" I'm just glad I wasn't dealing with these armed psychos in person! Funny thing was, they had been very helpful sourcing hard to find 50 cal BMG stuff for me in the past, so I was buying OVERPRICED stuff from them on purpose just as a "thank you," for helping me out!

I don't think you were rude. After all, you did say, 'thanks!"

Let me know and post your uv resin experiment results!

[Mike Payson]

I think you are assuming he filed a dispute, which it does not sound like he did. He contacted the seller only. 

Also, unless I am mistaken, you are incorrect about the fees. I am a very active paypal seller, and to the best of my knowledge there are no chargeback fees associated with simple refunds, even in the case of a dispute. If a buyer DOES file a dispute, here is what happens: 

1) PayPal holds all funds related to the transaction (but no other funds) until the matter is resolved.

2) the seller is emailed and given a chance to resolve the dispute. 

3) PayPal does not get any further involved unless the buyer escalates the dispute to a claim within 20 days.

4) If the dispute does not get escalated with 20 days, the matter is closed and it cannot be reopened. 

5) Anytime during the 20 days, the seller can issue a full or partial refund with no fees (and PayPal will issue a full or pro-rated refund of teh fees that they charge the seller).

It is possible that there are additional fees if a dispute is escalated to a claim and the seller loses. I have had a few disputes filed, but I have always been able to resolve them quickly and easily, so I am not certain what the case is there. 

You are correct that a history of disputes can cause negative effects on your PayPal account, but that is easy to avoid, just communicate with your customers. 

Regardless of all that, the seller in this case should be ashamed, The buyer communicated a fairly simple request, and sure his wording could have been slightly more friendly, it was by no means unreasonable. The only question I have is whether this was some low-level lackey who responded or not, but the fact that the response was sent through PayPal makes me suspect not. Guess they feel since they are the only practical supplier for that resin they can treat their customers poorly. Really sad. Hopefully this negative publicity will get them to change their ways a bit.

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[Bill Culverhouse]

Looking up their address streetview shows an "Available" space in one slot in a strip mall.
All others being occupied, I'd guess that this is a fairly small somewhat newish company.

Doesn't really say anything about them in particular. Just thought I'd point it out.

b