Dead bees

[Diane Packett]

I hadn't seen any evidence of cleansing flights, so took off the top cover and all is silent. I didn't have time to take the hive apart and see what happened. Maybe it was moisture, in spite of the super-duper vented insulating cover; the winter patty in its paper wrapping was soggy, but the fondant cakes seemed dry. Or cold, since I left the screened bottom board open like I did the first winter when they made it through. Sorry, Paul. :-(

Diane

[Justin Johnson]

Sorry to hear that Diane, the best cover I have found yet is a shallow super filled with cedar shavings and vent holes drilled just under a telescoping lid. with metal screen stapled to bottom.

[Joseph Bessetti]

I wouldn't assume anything or guess at the cause of hive loss until you've actually looked in the hive.  If you find a big cluster of bees dead in the combs then you might start to speculate about moisture or excessive ventilation.  On the other hand, if you find a tiny cluster of bees then you're dealing with something altogether different.   You also have to be careful how you evaluate moisture after a hive is already dead.  Dead bees tend to mold regardless of whether moisture was an issue in the weeks before they died. 

Joe

---

From: mad...@googlegroups.com <mad...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Justin Johnson <perceptio...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 10:56 AM
To: madbees
Subject: [madbees] Re: Dead bees

 

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "madbees" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to madbees+u...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Paul Zelenski]

Sorry to hear it Diane! Even healthy bees are sadly not a guarantee. It would be good to get a look inside and see if you can find a reason they perished.  

[Marcin]

Question for the group;

How many of you think that you colonies completely cease brood rearing during winter? Last week I went through 3 dead outs and 2 out 3 had capped brood underneath the cluster. The brood was tight, organized, didn't show pms signs and was ~4 inches round. The cluster completely covered the brood with queen in the middle. Both colonies were alive around Christmas, before the cold weather came. They were in the same yard, next to each other and both queens/colonies were more of Italian characteristics than Carnies.

So, a simple yes or no question ( ha ha ha );

do you think your colonies have a completely broodless period during winter? And if so, at what time do you think they're broodless?

Marcin

[Paul Zelenski]

Yes, I think that hives are completely broodless for a period in the fall/winter. When and how long is dependent on the weather, feeding habits and the strain of bees. I have read that many bees start rearing small patches of brood as early as the winter solstice. There is a meaningful difference between this maintenance brood and spring buildup.

 

From: Marcin
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 9:56 AM
To: madbees
Subject: Re: [madbees] Re: Dead bees

 

Question for the group;

How many of you think that you colonies completely cease brood rearing during winter? Last week I went through 3 dead outs and 2 out 3 had capped brood underneath the cluster. The brood was tight, organized, didn't show pms signs and was ~4 inches round. The cluster completely covered the brood with queen in the middle. Both colonies were alive around Christmas, before the cold weather came. They were in the same yard, next to each other and both queens/colonies were more of Italian characteristics than Carnies.

So, a simple yes or no question ( ha ha ha );

do you think your colonies have a completely broodless period during winter? And if so, at what time do you think they're broodless?

 

Marcin

On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 6:29:45 PM UTC-6, Paul Zelenski wrote:

Sorry to hear it Diane! Even healthy bees are sadly not a guarantee. It would be good to get a look inside and see if you can find a reason they perished.  

On Jan 23, 2018, at 11:07 AM, Joseph Bessetti <jbes...@hotmail.com> wrote:

I wouldn't assume anything or guess at the cause of hive loss until you've actually looked in the hive.  If you find a big cluster of bees dead in the combs then you might start to speculate about moisture or excessive ventilation.  On the other hand, if you find a tiny cluster of bees then you're dealing with something altogether different.   You also have to be careful how you evaluate moisture after a hive is already dead.  Dead bees tend to mold regardless of whether moisture was an issue in the weeks before they died. 

 

Joe

 

From: mad...@googlegroups.com <mad...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Justin Johnson <perceptio...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 10:56 AM
To: madbees
Subject: [madbees] Re: Dead bees

 

Sorry to hear that Diane, the best cover I have found yet is a shallow super filled with cedar shavings and vent holes drilled just under a telescoping lid. with metal screen stapled to bottom.

On Saturday, January 20, 2018 at 6:37:37 PM UTC-6, Diane Packett wrote:

I hadn't seen any evidence of cleansing flights, so took off the top cover and all is silent. I didn't have time to take the hive apart and see what happened. Maybe it was moisture, in spite of the super-duper vented insulating cover; the winter patty in its paper wrapping was soggy, but the fondant cakes seemed dry. Or cold, since I left the screened bottom board open like I did the first winter when they made it through. Sorry, Paul. :-(

Diane

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "madbees" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to madbees+u...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "madbees" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to madbees+u...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Greg V]

I am not sure where this question is going but...

Yes, I know for a fact that colonies go completely brood-less during the winter between Thanksgiving and about (the third decade of January).
Obviously, this is not an all-inclusive statement.

Simple supporting fact - I had five dead-out events to take place sometimes between Thanksgiving and the last weekend.
I dissected them all.
One had brood (the death occurred sometimes in early January).
Four did not have brood (two of these died in late December/early January; two died in early December).

So - 4 out of 5 did not have brood in my case.

Still unsure what is the question about.

.....................................

[Greg V]

Here is the picture, while at it.

[Justin Johnson]

Interesting hive Greg - what is your technique in harvesting honey - do you use separate more standard honey supers?

Thank You

Justin Johnson

perceptio...@gmail.com

(608) 482-3413

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "madbees" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/madbees/WJ9nQSH-M3c/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to madbees+u...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

<FrozenSmallClusterOnBrood.jpg>

[Greg V]

No traditional supers for the time being.

Deep horizontal.
Foundation-less.

Harvest - crush/strain for the now (need to cull the substandard combs anyway; the better combs are saved for the bees).

I did not even bother harvesting in the traditional sense.

Just waited until the dead-outs came along.
Makes the harvest easy... ☺

To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to madbees+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
<FrozenSmallClusterOnBrood.jpg>

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "madbees" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to madbees+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[marvin]

Tuff question Marcin since most of us don't break into the hive during the cold months for obvious reasons.  Seeing brood in a dead out is kind of a problematic observation:  If the hive died, is what you observe "normal"?  I have seen brood in November, and as others have said the queen often times starts limited egg laying in late Jan-Feb.  So if there is a truly "broodless" stage, it ain't long.  And as someone said, winter broodlessness is somewhat specific to the type of bees you have. Carnies are known to really shut down hard for winter, then really ramp up fast in spring.  So I'm leaning toward a no to your question.

[Joseph Bessetti]

The published study, Thermology of Wintering Honey Bee Colonies, provides compelling evidence that bees did completely cease brood rearing from December through mid-January back in the early 70s. 

What is "normal" for bees completely acclimated to Wisconsin winters and how long it takes for bees brought in from the West or South to return to "normal" are interesting questions to consider.   Most of the commercial bees are stimulated to rear brood through winter in order to build up for almond pollination.  Some areas on the south even have pollen and nectar coming into hives now so they're building up naturally.  For me this is probably one of the few compelling aspects of a "northern adapted" bee (rearing brood in sync with natural blooms and honey flows), although even here beekeepers often start feeding early to try to get a jump on the season or to be able to produce more early nucs.   So if you want bees that build up really early and produce massive crops during the main flow, you might actually want bees that start rearing brood abnormally early for our region. 

Joe

---

From: mad...@googlegroups.com <mad...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Marcin <mar...@chicagobees.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 9:56 AM
To: madbees

Subject: Re: [madbees] Re: Dead bees

[Diane Packett]

Thanks, all. Yes, I plan to get a look inside the hive as soon as I can, but that will be a few weeks because as I was going back inside the house after looking at the hive, I slipped on some black ice and fractured my wrist. It was quite the day! :-)

Diane

[Paul Zelenski]

Oh no! So sorry to hear it!!!

On Jan 25, 2018, at 7:26 AM, Diane Packett <dlpa...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks, all. Yes, I plan to get a look inside the hive as soon as I can, but that will be a few weeks because as I was going back inside the house after looking at the hive, I slipped on some black ice and fractured my wrist. It was quite the day! :-)

Diane

--