Nosema ?

[Michael Haeger]

I just discovered something unpleasant , both my hives are dead and with a lot of honey still in place . I noticed the brown spots appearing outside the hives about a week or so ago , but didn't look in as it was very cold . this weekend I decided I had to look inside , and discovered all of the bees were huddled at the top stone cold dead , and with lots of honey still in place . Reading up , I concluded it was Nosema , so questions -

 - Is it Nosema ? With the heavy brown flecking , dead bees and honey available , my conclusion is that it was .

 - I took the class last spring , and got the bees from the class , so next question is were the bees treated with a prophylactic prior to my receiving them ? I am gathering that should be done , depending on what book one reads .
 - Anyone have a couple nucs to sell ?
 - When it comes time to clean these up , can the honey still be used ? Has either the extreme cold , or the fact that the bees were killed by this disease mean I should dispose of the honey ?

 - As regards the cleaning of the hives in prep for more bees , and  getting the honey out , what about residual material , how much of that has to come off ? I gather I either clean with heat , or fumigating with Glacial Acetic acid . Any other thoughts ?

 - Lastly , I had no inkling of anything being amiss , which i also gather isn't unusual especially over winter , but going forward , other than treating prophetically what could I have done differently ?

Mightily bummed about this , figured I was sitting pretty well , checking for mites etc ; I never saw this coming . It totally sucks .

Thanks beforehand for anyone's input . MH

[Michael Haeger]

...without pictures , making it easier to view

[jeanne hansen]

Michael,

Our club has a 400x microscope that Rich Schneider is lending us (www.capitalbeesupply.com).

You could have sent me a sample of your bees last fall, and I would have tested them for nosema in time for you to have treated them then.

Nosema isn't the only disease that causes fecal spotting outside the hive.  The only way to know for sure is to mail (or bring) me a sample of your bees and I will test them for nosema.  I need a half-cup of bees, usually delivered to me in a zip-lock baggie.  Gather up a batch of your dead bees, and I will look at them microscopically.

See my other remarks in capital letters in your message below.

 

Thanks!

Jeanne Hansen

824 Jacobson Ave

Madison, WI 53714

608-244-5094

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From: Michael Haeger <mh...@gbpinc.com>
To: mad...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 10:05 AM
Subject: [madbees] Nosema ?

I just discovered something unpleasant , both my hives are dead and with a lot of honey still in place . I noticed the brown spots appearing outside the hives about a week or so ago , but didn't look in as it was very cold . this weekend I decided I had to look inside , and discovered all of the bees were huddled at the top stone cold dead , and with lots of honey still in place . Reading up , I concluded it was Nosema , so questions -

 - Is it Nosema ? YOU CAN'T TELL UNTIL YOU LOOK. With the heavy brown flecking , dead bees and honey available , my conclusion is that it was .

 - I took the class last spring , and got the bees from the class , so next question is were the bees treated with a prophylactic prior to my receiving them ? USUALLY YES.  I am gathering that should be done , depending on what book one reads .
 - Anyone have a couple nucs to sell ? IF YOU START WITH ANOTHER PACKAGE, YOU GET IT MID-APRIL.  A NUC IS NO HEALTHIER THAN A PACKAGE, AND YOU GET IT A MONTH OR MORE LATER.
 - When it comes time to clean these up , can the honey still be used ? Has either the extreme cold , or the fact that the bees were killed by this disease mean I should dispose of the honey ?  THE HONEY IS PERFECTLY GOOD FOR HUMANS TO EAT, OR YOU CN USE IT TO FEED YOU NEXT PACKAGE.

 - As regards the cleaning of the hives in prep for more bees , and  getting the honey out , what about residual material , how much of that has to come off ? PEOPLE LAUGH AT ME, BUT I WASH EVERYTHING INCLUDING EMPTY COMBS IN DISHWATER.  I USE COLD WATER SO AS NOT TO MELT THE WAX.  I FIGURE THE MORE FECES I REMOVE THE LESS THERE IS FOR THE BEES TO CARRY AWAY IN THEIR MOUTHS.  THE PACKAGE I PUT INTO THE WASHED HIVE DID WELL, AND NONE OF MY HIVES HAD NOSEMA THIS YEAR.  I gather I either clean with heat , or fumigating with Glacial Acetic acid . Any other thoughts ? UV RADIATION IS ALSO A VERY GOOD TREATMENT.  I HAVE SPREAD ALL THE HIVE PARTS OUT IN THE YARD, ON ALL MY CHAIRS, BENCHES, PICNIC TABLE AND BOARDS, WHEN IT WAS VERY SUNNY BUT STILL VERY COLD.  I TURNED THEM TWICE A DAY SO ALL PARTS WOULD BE EXPOSED TO THE SUN, AND LET THEM BE IRRADIATED FOR SEVERAL DAYS, UNTIL THE WEATHER CLOUDED UP.

 - Lastly , I had no inkling of anything being amiss , which i also gather isn't unusual especially over winter , but going forward , other than treating prophetically what could I have done differently ? SEND ME A SAMPLE OF YOUR BEES IN AUGUST OR SEPTEMBER TO HAVE THE CHECKED FOR NOSEMA.

Mightily bummed about this , figured I was sitting pretty well , checking for mites etc ;  GOOD FOR YOU FOR CHECKING FOR MITES!     I never saw this coming . It totally sucks .  THE PROBLEM MAY NOT HAVE BEEN NOSEMA - BEES ALSO HAVE VIRUSES, AND EVEN THE MOST EXPERIENCED BEEKEEPERS HAVE UNFORESEEN LOSSES.

Thanks beforehand for anyone's input . AT THIS POINT, MANY BEGINNERS GIVE UP.  OTHERS OF US FEEL THAT BEES ARE SO FASCINATING THAT IT IS WORTH IT, TO START AGAIN.  AT LEAST YOU HAVE SOME HONEY OUT OF IT.   MH
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[Paul Zelenski]

Jeanne has a microscope and can check your bees for nosema. I think she needs about a cup of dead bees. You can an freeze then until the next meeting. You should test son you can be sure that was the problem. I you can also test next fall before treating unnecessarily.

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[Michael Haeger]

Shall do . many thanks . Anything about the rest of it ?

[Michael Haeger]

Thanks so much , Jeanne , but regarding the incoming bees , I can feed the existing honey to them without worrying about contagion ? How could I clean up the hives without effecting the honey ? Guess i will wait until I bring in the bees .

Any suggestions , other than Dadant , in getting a couple of nucs ?

[Dan Curran]

Wow, that looks messy (definitely dysentery, looks like Nosema). You should salvage the equipment and honey--either drop in a package and hope for the best or maybe try the UV or acetic acid treatment.

The jury seems to be out right now on how to best monitor and deal with Nosema. Personally, I wouldn't recommend prophylactic treatment for anything.

Dan

[Michael Haeger]

So no prophylactic treatment even with new bees ? Wouldn't care to go down this road again .

Aside from bringing bees in for sampling , anything else ?

[Dan Curran]

Beekeepers have been treating prophylactically for mites, nosema, and foulbrood since they were discovered. This generally makes the disease/parasite more virulent, costs money, and can contaminate equipment with chemicals and antibiotics. This past summer I asked Marla Spivak if I should be treating with Fumagillin in the fall, and she told me that in the long run this will make things worse. Keep in mind, I'm also trying to breed my own bees and develop some resistance.

You should have Jeanne sample for Nosema, and then decide at that point whether you want to treat your packages going into contaminated equipment. However, Fumagillin does not kill the spores on your equipment. Besides, your bees should clean up the hive and overcome the disease during the spring/summer. You may be at risk of the disease reappearing next winter, but that's a risk that everyone is facing.

Dan

[Sarah Shatz]

I really agree with the idea that treating prophylactically will make things worse.  I will be curious to hear what you discover with the microscope.  In the past when we have had issues with dysentary, with a little help from us with clean-up, the bees have cleaned up their hives well in the spring.  

I'm also curious about fall feeding.  Did you give your bees sugar water in the fall?

~Sarah

[Michael Haeger]

They had quite a bit of honey , but I figured they could always use more so I gave them sugar water . I had no opportunity to open the hives from late November on , temperature and time of day being the issues . I noticed the flecking on the outside about three weeks ago . Reading up, it seemed that nosema , or some equally distasteful disorder was a real possibility , so I decided to risk it last weekend ,  although temperatures were mid-twenties . It was what I feared , all the bees , both hives , dead

[Michael Haeger]

If it is something other than Nosema , how do I treat the hives ? I gather in the case of Nosema , it is heat , or fumigation with glacial acetic acid .