Hackney Road Plans

[Russ Garrett]

I've uploaded my work-in-progress interior plans here:

https://github.com/londonhackspace/hackneyroad

I don't have time to finish the basement, so if anyone could help me
out, that would be excellent. It would be nice to be able to get
something sorted by the end of the weekend so we can send provisional
plans off to the landlord.

--
Russ Garrett
ru...@garrett.co.uk

[Peter "Sci" Turpin]

Presuming this is where we make mention of proposed interior
modifications. Does this apply to partition walls too?

The only immediate change I can see might be to take down the wall
between the tea-room and kitchen to make a more usable kitchen space.

The rest depends on if there's been any major layout choices planned.

[Russ Garrett]

On 28 February 2013 13:28, Peter "Sci" Turpin <s...@sci-fi-fox.com> wrote:
> Presuming this is where we make mention of proposed interior modifications.
> Does this apply to partition walls too?

Yes, it does.

I would like to submit plans which give a general idea of what we're
going to do over the next 12 months. These include (in approximate
order):

* Installation of ventilation downstairs
* Upgrading/security work on front door
* Partitioning of different work areas downstairs
* Partitioning of rooms upstairs

--
Russ Garrett
ru...@garrett.co.uk

[tom]

does this cover painting things on the walls? I have something rather special planned....

[Jonty Wareing]

No, painting is fine. This is just interior structural work and alterations to
the fabric of the building.

--jonty

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[Peter "Sci" Turpin]

This sounds difficult with there being no consensus on even general
layout beyond "loud stuff in basement". That said notation on which are
partition, rigid and structural walls would likely help set boundaries
on changes. Best not to make needless work for ourselves.

Do we have access to the (presumed machinery-containing) void-space
beside the lift in the lift-shaft? Looks like easy routing for basement
extraction if there's space in there.

[Jonty Wareing]

Sci.

A plea on behalf of everyone else on the list:

Please stop sending over 9000 messages a day on each thread. Condense
them into one and try to be more succinct - less brain-dumping makes it
easier to follow the flow of conversation.

Thanks,

--jonty


----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter \"Sci\" Turpin" <s...@sci-fi-fox.com>
> To: london-h...@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, 28 February, 2013 2:05:01 PM
> Subject: Re: [london-hack-space] Hackney Road Plans

[Peter "Sci" Turpin]

Wow, okay.

[Jasper Wallace]

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013, Russ Garrett wrote:

> I've uploaded my work-in-progress interior plans here:
>
> https://github.com/londonhackspace/hackneyroad
>
> I don't have time to finish the basement, so if anyone could help me
> out, that would be excellent. It would be nice to be able to get
> something sorted by the end of the weekend so we can send provisional
> plans off to the landlord.

To help plan the new layout i've started measuring things in the existing
space:

http://wiki.london.hackspace.org.uk/view/New_Space_Search/SizesAndShapes

Please help by adding things etc.

--
[http://pointless.net/] [0x2ECA0975]

[Paddy Duncan]

I can get on with this; I presume it still needs doing?
Paddy

[Russ Garrett]

Yes, it does. Would be very useful to have a hand.

--
Russ Garrett
ru...@garrett.co.uk

[930913]

I've sketched over the car park, (attached) and got seventeen parking bays, one disabled bay, one loading bay and space for bikes. For project space, I think the first spaces to go should be 3 and 4, leaving sectors A7:D8 free. If my calculations are correct, we could even fit two 30ft shipping containers. (Four if stacked? :D )

[930913]

Sorry, forgot to mention that useful information can be found at http://www.planningni.gov.uk/index/policy/supplementary_guidance/spg_other/parking-standards.pdf

[Nigel Worsley]

> I've sketched over the car park

 

You may find these converted versions of the PDF useful:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8387129/445.DWG

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8387129/445.dxf

 

I can fiddle with the export options if they don’t import properly.

 

Nigle

 

[tom]

or a caravan

On Tuesday, March 5, 2013 2:54:43 PM UTC, 930913 wrote:

[Alison W]

'Bikes?' to presumably include 'Bins (rubbish, recycling, etc)'

[Nigel Worsley]

> Sorry, forgot to mention that useful information can be found at

> http://www.planningni.gov.uk/index/policy/supplementary_guidance/spg_other/parking-standards.pdf

The dimensions in that document come with a caveat:

“

These dimensions refer to standing space only and do not take account of

access, manoeuvring space or space required for loading/unloading.”

 

Basically, just about enough space for a non obese driver to squeeze in

and out. Carrying anything to hack? Forget it. Want to avoid bumping

the edge of your door into the adjacent car? Then climb out through the

sunroof.

 

Far too many car parks don’t allow enough space, we don’t need anywhere

near all the spaces so why be skimpy?

 

Nigle

 

 

 

[Nigel Worsley]

The disabled space will have to move, getting into it involves driving off the side

of the ramp up to the shutter doors:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/russss/8228437904/in/set-72157632122729809/

 

That area is probably better off being used for bikes (which would benefit from

being able to be better lit and covered by CCTV) and bins.

 

I think the back door to the space has a few steps anyway, so disabled people

may be better off parking in the side street and using the front door.

 

Nigle

 

[Paddy Duncan]

Done, and it is in the 445 trustee dropbox folder.

-----Original Message-----
From: london-h...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:london-h...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Russ Garrett
Sent: 05 March 2013 14:09
To: London Hack Space

Subject: Re: [london-hack-space] Hackney Road Plans

[Peter "Sci" Turpin]

If containers go anywhere, I'd say near the rear door (parking spaces F,
10 & 11). This is not an access issue, but a security issue. Placed
anywhere except along that tall wall of the neighbouring building,
containers would allow for easy vaulting of the security fence.
And even then there is a gap in the above-ground fence around space F
that would need to be properly closed off. To my eye that still seems
the best option however.

Stacking containers would both require a crane and constructing a safe
method of accessing them 9ft off the ground. I think stacked containers
is out of the question, from a cost, liability and access POV.

Containers are a future issue. We have nothing that needs to go in them
yet. By all means earmark the space, but I doubt we'll be grabbing one
this year, let alone two or four.

> ru...@garrett.co.uk <javascript:>

[Ian Henderson]

It would also be nice to have some dedicated motorbike parking spaces

[Peter "Sci" Turpin]

I would think to the left of the roller-door ramp would be ideal for
both motorbike and bicycle. We can put an awning out from the building
to keep the worst of the weather off them, and conveniently location for
where any minor servicing will likely be done.

Speaking of which, that video of the Nottingham hackspace LIFE_CLERIC
posted showed them using clear industrial strip-curtains as a divider.
This would seem an ideal material to partition off the area inside of
the roller door for semi-outside work. Keep it transitional, y'know?

[Aden]

STOP BIKESHEDDING! No need to discuss to death things that don't even
matter before we have even moved in!

[Peter "Sci" Turpin]

It's a thread asking people to lay out proposals for how to arrange use
of the new space. Specifically that! How are we supposed to do that
without mentioning or discussing those ideas?

I don't normally rage, but I'm getting kinda tired of any ideas
discussion being automatically and immediately met with cries of
"bikeshedding" because it adds an extra couple of emails for
disinterested parties to scroll past.

And while I'm aware of the irony, people don't get to cite Godwins law
when actually talking about World War 2, so you don't get to cry
"bikeshedding" when people are actually talking about parking arrangements.

I concede that parking layout is the most flexible of all our planning
options in that it requires little or no construction or demolition. But
it was raised, it's what people are apt to discuss particularly in the
light of how poor our current parking situation is. People want this to
be better from the start.

In short, I agree with Nigel saying bikes should go in that corner, and
I suggested some additional reasons it seemed a good idea. I mentioned
this in reply to motorbike parking since the same criteria apply.

The curtains were mentioned as an alternative to partition walling
mentioned in an earlier thread, and brought up as they would surround
the direct access to that bike area. This seemed an easier, more
flexible option that might not require planning consent & still keep
heat in. Not domestic curtains and not faffing over decoration.

The correct reply is to point out what you think is wrong with the idea,
or provide better ideas. No one is arguing the colour of anything of
clawing onto other minute details. There's no bikeshedding here. :P

[tom]

I think its deemed to be bikeshedding as we dont have any idea where more important things like "where do we put the lasercutter so it can get ventilation?" and "where can we put the 3-in-1 so that we dont end up with a 3-in-1-shaped-hole in the floor?" yet for some reason were discussing where to park bikes.

So whilst not technically bikeshedding as we have no actual shed to talk about it at least qualifies for 50% of the word due to being about bikes and bike parking

anyway..

How much extra furniture do we have stashed away in various places? has that been measured?

[Mark Steward]

It's stuff we really don't need to worry about right now. People are intelligent, and making decisions like these in advance will have little effect. Curtains are a sensible idea, but you'll notice we use them already.

The ironic bit was "in short". We don't want people don't scroll past posts, as it leads to redundant discussions and more wasted time. Your posts are often useful, but always verbose: please help keep the signal-to-noise level high and filter stuff before it goes to hundreds of people.

Mark

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[Jonty Wareing]

> It's a thread asking people to lay out proposals for how to arrange
> use of the new space. Specifically that!

No, it is not. Russ asked for help converting the measurements we
have into CAD files. That is all.

--jonty

[Peter "Sci" Turpin]

On 06/03/2013 11:29, Jonty Wareing wrote:>> It's a thread asking people

My apologies then. That's not the impression this gave me:

On 28/02/2013 13:31, Russ Garrett wrote:> On 28 February 2013 13:28,

Peter "Sci" Turpin <s...@sci-fi-fox.com> wrote:

[Jasper Wallace]

On Tue, 5 Mar 2013, 930913 wrote:

> I've sketched over the car park, (attached) and got seventeen parking bays, one disabled bay, one loading bay and space for bikes. For project
> space, I think the first spaces to go should be 3 and 4, leaving sectors A7:D8 free. If my calculations are correct, we could even fit two 30ft
> shipping containers. (Four if stacked? :D )

Parking spaces are rateable so we don't want too many of them.

We have a picnic table and some astroturf in storage so a
garden/picnic/barbeque/crazy golf area would be good.

Also:

Important reminder to everyone on this thread that wants to help:

We have a wiki.

Please find New space related pages here:

http://wiki.london.hackspace.org.uk/view/New_Space_Search_2012#New_layout
http://wiki.london.hackspace.org.uk/view/New_Space_Search/Layout
http://wiki.london.hackspace.org.uk/view/New_Space_Search/SizesAndShapes

If you have relevent info or ideas please update in the appropiate place
or make an appropiate place if one dosn't exist yet.

random posts in deep mailing list threads get lost eaisly.

> On Thursday, February 28, 2013 9:23:30 AM UTC, Russ Garrett wrote:
> I've uploaded my work-in-progress interior plans here:
>
> https://github.com/londonhackspace/hackneyroad
>
> I don't have time to finish the basement, so if anyone could help me
> out, that would be excellent. It would be nice to be able to get
> something sorted by the end of the weekend so we can send provisional
> plans off to the landlord.
>
> --
> Russ Garrett
> ru...@garrett.co.uk
>

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "London Hackspace" group.

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>  
>  
>
>

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[Gavan Fantom]

On 06/03/2013 22:17, Jasper Wallace wrote:
> Parking spaces are rateable so we don't want too many of them.
>
> We have a picnic table and some astroturf in storage so a
> garden/picnic/barbeque/crazy golf area would be good.

So, UAV test area then?

[AlisonW]

Who actually decides what is and is not a 'parking space' though? Do the council deem there to be a particular number whether they are marked out or not, in use or not? (possibly based on previous usage?) Maybe there needs to be a simple fence stopping vehicles reaching an area in order for it to be considered as not for parking.

A

-- Sent from my HP TouchPad. Yes, really!

---

[Russ Garrett]

On 7 March 2013 12:12, AlisonW <ali...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Who actually decides what is and is not a 'parking space' though?

I'm not clear on this either, if anyone has some spare time to
research this and/or ring up the VOA, that would be an interesting
piece of info.

--
Russ Garrett
ru...@garrett.co.uk

[william...@gmail.com]

I rang them, and am expecting a call back from the relevant team within 24 hours...

What is the property type definition of 445? (e.g. residential/light industrial etc)

[Russ Garrett]

On 7 March 2013 13:30, <william...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I rang them, and am expecting a call back from the relevant team within 24
> hours...
>
> What is the property type definition of 445? (e.g. residential/light
> industrial etc)

The listing is on the VOA website under "BST & GND FL 445-453, HACKNEY
ROAD, LONDON, E2 6QL" (I understand the postcode there is incorrect).
The overall rating type is "096 - Factories, Workshops and Warehouses
(Incl Bakeries & Dairies)", although I don't think that affects the
rating of the car parking spaces (of which it thinks there are 22!).

--
Russ Garrett
ru...@garrett.co.uk

[Nigel Worsley]

>> Who actually decides what is and is not a 'parking space' though?
> I'm not clear on this either, if anyone has some spare time to
> research this and/or ring up the VOA, that would be an interesting
> piece of info.

Reducing the number of parking spaces won’t necessarily save any money,

as fenced and surfaced land is assessed at £10 a square metre. For the

entire yard this works out at £6,039 instead of £4,400 as parking spaces.

 

 

If shipping containers are used for any purpose other than storage then

they will probably be classed as portable buildings, which are £40 a

square metre.

 

I think the only way we could save money would be to turf over unwanted

parking spaces, which I think will cost £3-£4 a square metre, plus whatever

amount of topsoil is needed underneath it. The landlords probably wouldn’t

allow it though!

 

Nigle

 

[Charles Yarnold]

If you were to take away the dividing fence at the rear I suppose you could fit in 22 cars, bit of a squish though!

[william...@gmail.com]

I got a call back from the VOA. All he said was that the land would be charged at whatever rate it is classified as; he couldn't give me an idea of cost of parking vs other uses per square metre. If we wanted to convert some parking spaces for another use, we need to notify them and have an inspection.

0300 050 0625 if anyone wants to make any further enquires