no microwave any more

[Liam Lynch]

Hi,,

Just to let people KNOW, the microwave in the kitchen has died and gone to microwave heaven.

I am sure no one is going miss cleaning it.

[Tom Sands]

To miss cleaning it, it actually has to be cleaned in the first place.

[Henry Best]

May it rust in pieces.

On Monday, 28 December 2015 17:21:03 UTC, Liam Lynch wrote:

[tom]

Did it die from old age or from "hammer through the front window"?

[Billy]

Has anyone started salvaging it for components yet?

[Peter "Sci" Turpin]

Why serve in heaven when it can rule in hell?

From the state of it, it's going to be the latter.

[Philip Roy (cepmender)]

I resisted the urge...

:)

Ioannes 8:32

----- Reply message -----
From: "Billy" <bi...@billycomputersmith.com>
To: "London Hackspace" <london-h...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [london-hack-space] Re: no microwave any more
Date: Mon, 12 28, 2015 18:51

[Billy]

Don't worry, i'll do it when i come in tomorrow. :D

[Liam Lynch]

I don't think it have been scavanged for parts.

It certainly will not rust in hell for the following reasons:-

a) It rusted in the kitchen long before it could ever get to hell.
b) It is unlikely to get to hell on the grounds there is not a cycle path to it, they have all be used to cover over any road with a good intention.
c) Not even Hell, with all it demons would have accepted it.

Not enterly sure how it meet its end, I was not there.

Liam

On Monday, 28 December 2015 17:21:03 UTC, Liam Lynch wrote:

[Henry Best]

On Monday, 28 December 2015 18:33:32 UTC, tom wrote:

Did it die from old age

Hypothermia.

 

or from "hammer through the front window"?

That's murder! Send for the frying squad. 

[simon tyszko]

i have a found one at home i was going to disassemble ...... is it wanted?

[Adrian Godwin]

I have a good commercial one that needs some minor work before i bring it in.

There are at least some members who would prefer we didn't have one at all because of the lack of care it gets from the users, so i don't think it needs replacing urgently.

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[Patrick Dent]

I for one would love to see the return of the microwave. 90% of the meals I consume at the hackspace are ready meals requiring oven cooking or microwaving. I was forced to try and do frozen mash in a frying pan on the electric hob last week cos I forgot about this. *sadface*

[Peter "Sci" Turpin]

We've been using one of these halogen ovens in our house for the last
year, and it's been really good. It's also a LOT easier to clean than a
regular oven.
http://www.appliancesdirect.co.uk/p/hov17/electriq-hov17-cooking?refsource=APadwords&crtag=AP&gclid=CMzbjeuGj8oCFQ26Gwodu-YONg

Would getting one for the kitchen as well as the new microwave be an
idea? Some things aren't best suited for microwave cooking.

[Stefan Sabo]

Honestly, problem w/ cleaning will be, not matter, which type of MicroWave will be instaled, or not installed.

Of course, its better to have "industrial" type, which is prepared to more job. But, be careful, as some of these machines request specific type of cleaning and chemicals.

It is there some PLEDGE, which already get some money for new MW, but now is idea to get better, not cheaper one. Idea have one by 350 GBP is out of reality. 

If I see,  on daily basis, what shit is happened at kitchen (full bins - luckily we have not problem with rats), mess all around, I mean, we need "maintainer" for kitchen and AC node access to machines there, or webcam to see, who make lots of mess and ban him :-)) (no, this two rows I do not mean really seriously...)

I agree with Patrick, also prefer easy preparation of RTE meals in MW/oven and I miss this facility at space Just now...

BTW: looks to toaster, mean, we need shortly new one, or, it need to be deep cleaned, cos...

[Nick Cripps]

A commercial microwave would be an excellent donation to the space IMHO. There is currently a pledge for one. 

I can't see why people would prefer to not have one at all. If they don't like how dirty it gets inside, just don't open it. I think quite a lot of people really want there to be one in the space and find it very useful. I am tempted to buy a cheap replacement to use until you bring in this commercial one. 

[Aden]

The arguments against a microwave are :-

a) people cooking stinky food, stinking up the whole space
b) people leaving unwashed plates and cutlery around the place
c) people leaving leaving unwashed food container in the bins to fester

d) homeless people living in the space

[Nick Cripps]

Thanks.

My own thoughts on these arguments are below (TL;DR: I don't think any is a good reason to not have one, relocating it seems like a decent idea but, I don't care personally). I plan to buy a microwave shortly and put it in the kitchen this evening, donating it to the space. If anyone wants me to remove it, I'm happy to do so if they can demonstrate that more people want it removed than want it to stay or, that enough people want me to remove it. If anyone wants to build a waterproof box to put a microwave in outside and drill a hole in the wall to put a mains cable through, I'd be happy to help and/or contribute to materials. I'd also be happy to contribute to any pledge for some sort of extractor fan for somewhere (which probably can't be the kitchen since I don't think it is has an external wall). 

(a) seems fixable by only allowing microwaving in a place that has an extractor fan (a temporary cabin, caravan or shelter (could just be big enough to keep the microwave dry) outside if people can't bear to allocate any space for it and, this isn't possible in the kitchen but, the formerly quiet room (what is it used for now anyway?) or the store room behind the kitchen seem like viable alternative microwave rooms). This seems like the strongest argument against a microwave but, I suspect that a vote of all members on removing the microwave would fail and, it seems a bit unreasonable to ban it instead of just relocating the microwave. Relocating it seems like a reasonable request IMHO but, as I'm not bothered by food smells, I'm not going to try and get it done myself. I'm happy to help if enough people are bothered enough to get involved.

(b) people will do this anyway with stuff used for food not cooked in the microwave. No allowing crockery that isn't kept in someone's member's box (which presumably they will clean instead of putting unwashed stuff in their member's box, which has to be against the rules anyway) would solve this I think. I'd be in favour of this but, I expect most people wouldn't and, it might lead to a significant increase in demand for member's boxes which might be a problem.

(c) emptying the bins regularly isn't hard. I know people are crap at it but, there could be a ban food containers in any bin except the kitchen one or, even a ban on food containers in any inside bin. Also, you can always empty the bin if it gets smelly and is bothering you.

(d) the ban on sleeping in the space would seem to prevent this. It isn't obviously happening so, it seems like trying to solve a problem that isn't there. 

[Aden]

Wow, you really must love microwave food. I'd advise against breaking the storage rules though. https://wiki.london.hackspace.org.uk/view/Guides/Bringing_items_to_the_space

[Lex Robinson]

You can't

On Mon, 4 Jan 2016 at 18:53 Nick Cripps <nick....@gmail.com> wrote:

(b) people will do this anyway with stuff used for food not cooked in the microwave.

We don't have anything else to cook with*, so this will be considerably less of a problem.

 

* Well, apart from the BBQs, braising hearth(s), smelting bucket and kiln(s), but people use those less.

[Lex Robinson]

Ignore the "You can't" bit, I don't know where that came from.

[Stefan Sabo]

in the moment, when someone declare new Microwave as DONATION to HackSpace, it's no more any break of Storage rules, perhaps, we talking about somethin, what is usefull for majority of people regularly or casualty visiting Space, even, some people wants solve problem with bins via "No Microwave"

It's more worst, believe me, what happened NOW at kitchen, when no microwave is there... What some people do now on cooker is dangerous, stupid and can make bigger problem...

In my opinion, any Microwave is better then no have it, even up to come new one, good and expensive from pledge.

Problem with location is easy. Microwave have own place at kitchen, kitchenette or other similar place. It's common sense. We have more relevant issue then build shelter for Microwave outside. Cutlery was, is and will be standard problem anywhere where are more then one person. Or you mean, as when people instead to go to Tesco buy toilet paper are able to use blue cleaning paper, as they will change their behaviour?

Bins... Bins... Bins...

Look around, still same people go and solve this problem. 90% people don't care about it. Even, we have recycled and general waste bins, least to all don't care and mix it up how come. I meet person, who blame about full bins, and to my question, why them he don't go to empty them, she say to me, as she pay membership and Space hire cleaner, who is responsible for this, and she WILL NOT MAKE junk task, she is busy with own projects. Excellent, at summer you can go outside, because inside will be absolutely unacceptable smell from rubbish, rats, etc etc.
Lot of people means, as they pay membership and that's all. In their minds all will perfect, because they pay their 5 quids and it is their allowance to d what they want, even using emergency fire exit to leave space, because they can and because they are lazy go to normal way. Who cares, as they leave space at risk? And you wants, as people will take care about bins?

What can help, but not solve problem at all is? Have we bin bags? Obviously it missing, even Russ take care and purchase it,make as toilet papers. It's first step. May be, put some to visible place at kitchen, to be at hands when it is required. People are lazy to go to cupboard.
And start to make it 3 times per week regularly as: "Guys, please come and help me pick up bins..." I know, ignore from 50% will be reaction, but anyone will see, as it not happened by Ghosts but someone need make it. Ban of food containers inside? Unbeatable but pathetic naive.., people will ignore it..

[Patrick Dent]

There is now a microwave in the kitchen. Argos Value! (I'm terribly sorry that I forget the name of the guy I was talking to all evening who brought it in! [*shame*])

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[Patrick Dent]

D'oh! It seems it was Nick as far as I can tell. (Whoops)

[Nick Cripps]

I have put a new microwave in the kitchen. It is the cheapest microwave Argos had to offer so, it is probably pretty shit and, I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't last long. I only feel slightly less uncomfortable standing in front of it than I did with the old one (that had rust holes in it). It did however allow me to heat up some food this evening and will allow others to do so as well until a more suitable replacement is donated or bought (provided that is soon). 

I am assuming that this doesn't need a storage request as it is a donation that I think will be useful to others. 

It may pollute the atmosphere with food smells but, they are probably less bad for you than the stuff that is in their air generally. The kitchen bin was overflowing with containers with food waste in them before I emptied it so, not having a working microwave doesn't seem to have helped with that. If people are bothered by this and want to do something more permanent than just emptying the bin, we could have a bin on food containers in any bin except the kitchen one, have a lid for it and, a rule that you have to empty it if the lid doesn't close, forcing people to empty it to throw away their containers. I'm not sure that will make people do it but, it does mean you can't just find another bin and, food waste has to be taken out reasonable frequently. I'm not bothered by it as it is though. 

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[Nick Cripps]

On 4 January 2016 at 22:54, Patrick Dent <kantp...@gmail.com> wrote:

D'oh! It seems it was Nick as far as I can tell. (Whoops)

I'd forgotten your name too I'm afraid. Hooray for the magic of email From lines :)

[Peter "Sci" Turpin]

IRC suggested that the plan to expand the kitchen is now moot as the
connecting wall is brick and contains both wiring and piping. So we
should aim to make the most of what we have.

The bins are part of the wider bin problem that will hopefully be
addressed with better instruction.
Food-smells are more prominent here as the the current venue is pretty
open-plan. At cramer st we could have the windows and balcony door open
when people cooked. It does suggest that better ventilation could at
least mitigate the issue.
But to be fair, food is the least of all the bad smells you might
encounter at the hackspace. :P

It would be nice to have the capacity to do food experiments/hacking in
the kitchenette, but its primary use is going to be snacks and fast food.
Personally I think it should contain;
A microwave
A double hob
A small halogen oven
A kettle
A toaster
A small fridge (no freezer compartment)

Half of me would rather there was no fridge at all, since people forget
food in it. And why are people storing perishable food in this
environment anyway? Is it really too much effort to take it with you?
But the other half of me knows we want one to store the milk in, I think
there are some members who might need to temporarily store medicines,
and it is actually useful on BBQ days to store the raw stuff.
So I think we could do with downsizing the fridge to one of those
countertop minibar sized ones if one turns up cheap.

[Adrian Godwin]

On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 10:44 PM, Stefan Sabo <stefan.do...@gmail.com> wrote:

It's more worst, believe me, what happened NOW at kitchen, when no microwave is there... What some people do now on cooker is dangerous, stupid and can make bigger problem...

Why is there a cooker there ? There shouldn't be. Please remove anything except the toaster, the kettle, and the new microwave.

 I meet person, who blame about full bins, and to my question, why them he don't go to empty them, she say to me, as she pay membership and Space hire cleaner, who is responsible for this, and she WILL NOT MAKE junk task, she is busy with own projects. Excellent, at summer

She is not correct. The cleaner is only aid for a short period and emptying the bins is not part of her schedule. It's up to all of us.

[Nick Cripps]

Why is there a cooker there ? There shouldn't be. Please remove anything except the toaster, the kettle, and the new microwave.

 

There has been a two ring electric hob to the right of the door for at least a year I think. 

[Martin (Crypt)]

It might be the same one we had in Cramer st, so its likely been there longer than that.  We never had an issue with it, and its useful to some people, so no reason to throw it out

On 5 Jan 2016 09:07, "Nick Cripps" <nick....@gmail.com> wrote:

Why is there a cooker there ? There shouldn't be. Please remove anything except the toaster, the kettle, and the new microwave.

 

There has been a two ring electric hob to the right of the door for at least a year I think. 

--

[Paddy Duncan]

No it cannot be, I destroyed that one, which had an earth fault, and the one after that one, for the same reason.

[Martin (Crypt)]

sorry, my mistake.  They all look the same to me :p

[Peter "Sci" Turpin]

Suddenly it turns into a Friday the 13th film.

On 05/01/2016 09:17, Paddy Duncan wrote:
> No it cannot be, I destroyed that one, which had an earth fault, and the
> one after that one, for the same reason.

>

[Peter "Sci" Turpin]

This is also something that clearly needs to be addressed in the induction.
Do we have it set in stone somewhere what the cleaners responsibilities
are actually supposed to be?

On 05/01/2016 02:50, Adrian Godwin wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 10:44 PM, Stefan Sabo

> <stefan.do...@gmail.com <mailto:stefan.do...@gmail.com>>

[Paddy Duncan]

There currently isn't one, and I'm meeting a new prospect this week.
The remit given though was :
Toilets + floors. Stairs if time allowed.
And excluding :
Kitchen other than floor, bins, downstairs



On 5 January 2016 10:37:41 am "Peter \"Sci\" Turpin" <s...@sci-fi-fox.com>
wrote:

[antonvino]

As far as smells go, there are at least 2 people currently living in the space ignoring the rules and do smell at times.

And yeah also the bins with leftover food in them.

Don't think that Microwave is the biggest kitchen issue. Bins are. 

It also surprises me that people still just dump their unwashed stuff in the sink, I had to wash it twice in the past 2 weeks just to have access to it. A camera would be nice.

[Tim Reynolds]

If you know who these people are, and are comfortable doing so please
email trus...@london.hackspace.org.uk with a complaint.

"Do not treat the Hackspace like your home, it is a shared space.
Sleeping anywhere on Hackspace property is forbidden."

Sleeping somewhere else and spending the other 18 hours a day in the
hackspace every single day doesn't avoid that rule.

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[Stefan Sabo]

At morning, we w/ Chris (PL Guy) kick out all Bins space, as Obviously we do minimum tueasday morning. If someone else make it other 2 times per week, we haven't any issue with bins.

Except kitchen bins, which should be emptied ideally each day, because coming to be full very quickly and especially with potentially smelling goods, like food containers.

Unfortunately, we don't found CLEAR BIN BAGS, this means, recycles bins are simply like are, without bags inside. General waste bins installed w/ black bin bags are ok.

Should be useful for situation, clean bins , some of them are regularly dirty, or one of the, at basement is slightly crashed. It is probably ideally to do at last Saturday "Hackers" action / meeting for the space.

If I will have time tomorrow, I planing to clean backyard from waste. It looks also disgusting at some parts.


Btw be careful at judge people, who "lives" at space. I can say it public, not have any problem with it. I spend A LOT OF TIME at Hackspace, now about 4 of 7 days/nights per week, vary from 5 to 20 hours and honestly, I a, here now more as at my room. Time to time it happens to lot of people, as we take REST, for half an hour, hour or slightly more close eyes and listen music. And yes, it happened as I Asleep here. Yes, you can give me ban, and it will be right. On other side, my opinion is, as is slightly different, if people come here only for sleep, and not doing in general nothing else (even they call it as they hacking also) and people, who come regularly and spend a lot of time here. Btw if someone mean, as I don't meet trustees or really valued members, who asleep on sofa after Tuesday night, you are naive. It happens to lot of people and it is unfortunately natural part of human. It not help, when now start "hunt for whitch" only, because this is main problem. Of course, some people sleeping here 10-20h per day, especially at off peak days, not disturbed by anybody, out of cameras. This is regular problem, w/out discuss.

[Tim Reynolds]

Sleeping in the space is bad regardless of how long for or why. New
member or old member.

Rule 6: "Do not treat the Hackspace like your home, it is a shared

space. Sleeping anywhere on Hackspace property is forbidden."

If you are too tired to be in the space, go home. You post a lot about
the bins and non-members being let into the space. Please apply the same
zeal to following the rest of the rules.

[Stefan Sabo]

Honestly, agree...

Within next few weeks I will there sometimes nonstop 48h at once, one time per week, and I will really lucky if no asleep at anytime. Needs to be aware of this, but type of next project which I will start next week + some other things will help to avoid it. It take time up to April, then I will have a lot of duty on Campus Party Europe, which coming at May at Utrecht, Netherland and I will be really lucky to find time come to HackSpace one,two time per week for few hours.

There is no limit, how deeply you can use space. Even, you need always accept as it is shared space and accept other people, their personality and privacy. Some people come here occasionally, some people I meet each day, some of the, I am really sure, as I find here 24/7.
And it's vary time to time at all people,


Dne úterý 5. ledna 2016 20:41:51 UTC Tim Reynolds napsal(a):

[Stefan Sabo]

It will be probably discussion about what was first, egg or chicken....

Honestly, I was surprised as today I sleep me then 7 hours, instead my obviously 3-4h, of course not at space :))

But sorry, if I working on something, I don't take as biggest problem, if take REST for very short time, or go out to walk, or cycle, to get "back in the business" and then continue on my work. But it will be probably popular in this time try find victims, try find problem where in the fact isn't.
Any rule, anything need to take carefully and also with common sense.

W/out any discussion, some people coming here only to sleep. This is problem.

I was warned by one trustee to avoid write public, as I also asleep at space, or anything related to is, due popular demand of "Hunt for Witches" which will coming especially now, before General Meeting, when some people will take this as main part of agenda, and gun against present trustees, even, we have other things to solve, which is more important.

Discussion about have or not to have microwave is typically what happened here t daily basis. And when someone make as buy cheapest one , some people hate it? People, where we coming?

> If you are too tired to be in the space, go home. You post a lot about
> the bins and non-members being let into the space. Please apply the same
> zeal to following the rest of the rules.
>

> is >