specific incedent involving the gate padlock

[Michael Trew]

I am apparently being accused by the trustees of deliberately leaving the gate padlock unscrambled

 

this allegation is totally false

 

I believe the mistaken allegation is being made as a result of a misunderstanding that occurred during a specific incident about a month ago…

 

I was cycling away from the Hackspace along Emma Street when someone who I didn’t recognize ran down from the caravan toward the gate and screamed “you didn’t scramble the lock”

 

he then ran back up to the caravan where a whole group of people drinking beer seemed to find his behaviour highly amusing

 

it wasn’t even me who closed the gate, as I’d been in Emma Street for about 10 minutes chatting to friends, during which time at least one other member had opened and closed the gate

 

 I did once forget to scramble the lock, but that won't happen again

[Charles Yarnold]

Hello Michael,

I have attached the email I sent you to the bottom of this reply as you have decided to make this public and included responses inline. 

On 17 July 2013 10:36, Michael Trew <tre...@gmail.com> wrote:

I am apparently being accused by the trustees of deliberately leaving the gate padlock unscrambled

No, no where in that email does it say you are doing it deliberately, just repeatedly. A repeated mistake can still be a mistake, but that doesn't stop it being an issue.

 

this allegation is totally false

Leaving aside if this is deliberate or not, multiple trustees and members have reported you doing this and having spoken to you multiple times about it. 

 

I believe the mistaken allegation is being made as a result of a misunderstanding that occurred during a specific incident about a month ago… 

 [snip]

No, this is the result of, as I said above, many instances (I myself have seen you close the gate and walk into the yard failing to have scrambled the code and spoken to you about it).

 

 

 I did once forget to scramble the lock, but that won't happen again

Please do, the intent of emailing you privately was to get you to do this. 

Thanks

Charles

Original email to Michael,

Hello Michael,

We are emailing you concerning your repeated failure to secure the Hackspace when entering and leaving via the back gate.

Despite repeated reminders from trustees and members, we are still receiving complaints that you are not scrambling the padlock code after closing it. This effectively leaves the yard unlocked for anyone to enter.

Other members have noted the seemingly uncaring and flippant disregard given to those reminding you. We hope that this will be enough to make you aware of the importance of keeping the Hackspace secure while using it.

Best,

Charles Yarnold

On behalf of the Trustees 

[Paul Dart]

On a slightly different note, isn't it about time we changed the code again? I vaguely remember there being some idea to change it once every month or two to help with security.

Thanks,

Paul

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[Russ Garrett]

We will probably be changing it every 6 months or so, and we were
planning on changing it soon. We'll be giving a month's notice to all
members.

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[Simon]

For the record - I have once arrived at the space a couple of months back and found the lock unscrambled but I failed to report it at the time because I got sidetracked by much more interesting things for many hours that followed and have only remembered now...
This evening I arrived at about 19:00 and while the lock had been scrambled only 2 of the tumblers were moved and those not by many places.


I personally think it is time to change the code.

I also don't think that members need a months notice and that changing it more regularly than 6 months would be better (but then I do live in Hackney and tend to be a bit paranoid about security and the levels of crime ...)
If the code is changed monthly say, then members would get to know that and check the website regularly.  And members who rarely visit would be wise to check each time they head out to the space


2c
Simon

[Charles Yarnold]

I would second monthly, 6 months seems hardly worth bothering with.

[Mark Steward]

I'm for 3-4 monthly. I think monthly is too regular (it's on the
"write it on a post-it" end of the scale), and 6-monthly is probably
too wide a window. This would work out at 3-4 times a year, or 9-12
times over the period we were in Unit 24.


Mark

[Mark Steward]

On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 12:07 AM, Mark Steward <marks...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm for 3-4 monthly. I think monthly is too regular (it's on the
> "write it on a post-it" end of the scale),

This is also the "I don't really need to scramble the padlock because
it'll change soon anyway" end.


Mark

[Charles Yarnold]

True, I would be happy with 3 months :)

[Ndlovu (aka) Dean]

a trustee who has a track record of dishonesty and embelishing events accuses and issues Michael Trew with what appears to be a warning based on a alleged and uninvestigated incident with out even having the decency to discuss with Michael (excellent social skills) dispite claiming to be behind him 

sad very sad but as some of our peers at the space say there are some special people around give them the special treatment they deserve  ignore them 

[tom]

Constructive as ever Dean. Thanks

On a serious note: do we have a spare linux capable ebook reader I can mount on the gate with an rfid reader? I'd like it to be able to show the current gate code when presented with a members ID card, this way we can change it weekly if we need to

[Russ Garrett]

Dean,

This is not acceptable.

This warning -- as with all warnings -- was issued by the trustees as
a group, not by one individual. At least two trustees have already
"had the decency" to discuss this with Michael before the warning was
issued, and this was an informal warning which was not part of the
grievance procedure.

Your vendetta against Charles (and to a lesser extent the rest of the
trustees) has been causing significant stress for several months. I
have heard directly from several trustees who are considering
resigning their posts because of you.

Dean, the majority of the emails you're sending to this list are not
just passive-aggressive, unproductive, unnecessarily accusatory, and
in several cases flat-out wrong, but they're also actively harmful to
the community. I appreciate that you may be trying to improve the
Hackspace, but what you are achieving is the polar opposite.

I would strongly recommend you consider carefully what you're
broadcasting to this list in future, before you find yourself banned
from it permanently.

Cheers,

Russ

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[Monty]

Hi Dean,

These are quite the accusations you are making regarding a trustee. If you have a problem with this person please either take the matter up with them personally and/or involve the other trustees. If that falls to resolve the problem feel free to then air the situation politely in a new thread along with the facts, times, and places of the incidents you are referring to because at the moment you are sounding potentially hypocritical.

This is bordering on being non-excellent behaviour, please keep things civil.

[Mikechislett]

I think Sol & Co are about right:

Anything under three months, and I'd probably be liable to asking someone else what the code is - if a critical number of people get the new code, then the practice of changing the code is useless... Anything much more, and I reckon we venture into the world of not having an effective revoking method.

Silly idea for consideration by the bikeshedders-in-chief:

Could ye olde members/doorbot/direct debit script have a way of knowing that after X number of people have quit the space, we trigger a mass email to all current members saying in Y weeks or on Z date the code will be changed to ABCDE ??? This would keep some kind of a workable revoking system in place, (obviously with some inherent latency if people quit just after a code change), and also hopefully a the trustees would know a suitable value for X, and Y or Z, given they probably have figures for the average fallout per month?

OR perhaps just a set time period is easier!

-M

[Ndlovu (aka) Dean]

Russ

There is no vendetta what so ever and has never been 

Charles has made a unsubsatiated, fabricated accusation agaisnt me in the past what I consider a significant accusation against me with no evidence that could stand any scruitiny you were privy to this. 

Honesty

In response I complained againt such spurious and malicious allegations and dispite there not being evidence to back them up what so ever the orginisation declined to take action agaist it "own" surley it is extremly odd not to find either way

Vendetta

I have recently mentioned the caravan in a post and made it clear it was in a compare and contrast with the luna my point was the luna should recieve the same treatment, Charles reponded to this by further lying once again and doing what he could to goad me 

Process 

My conversation with you as you know were very recent and at that point said there was no proper process for complaints, if that has changed perhaps you could point me to where this is ..... if complaint are seconded that would be a good start 

Cheers

Dean

On Wednesday, 17 July 2013 10:36:56 UTC+1, Michael Trew wrote:

[Ndlovu (aka) Dean]

If we address theissue of the gate my view 

What is the risk we have card entry to the building and I dont believe anything of value should be left unsecured in the yard

And in  an ideal world some form of card access on the gate, i know anautomated gate could be the longer term solution but is there not a lighter solution to this 

On Wednesday, 17 July 2013 10:36:56 UTC+1, Michael Trew wrote:

[Sam Kelly]

Please take this off the mailing list, Dean? It's getting ugly, and it's of no use or interest to the rest of us.

--

[Tim Reynolds]

Dean,

Charles has invested hugely in the Hackspace over the last few years,
and he is one of the people responsible for it's continued growth and
health. He has no reason whatsoever to target you, lie to you and about
you or otherwise target you. Why hasn't he done this to any of the other
748 members? I find your behaviour and comments unacceptable and I don't
appreciate the destabilising effect you're having on the space.

Tim

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[SamLR]

Can we close this thread please? 

The original email, I think, has been addressed. Further discussion of alternatives to the rear padlock should be taken to a different thread and everything else should dropped and left for the involved parties to deal with, not everyone with a keyboard.

Thank you

S

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[Dean Forbes (PERS)]

Tim I am not alone perhaps read the thread where this comes from if you have any desire for objective comment   .... and i would suggest that it is not me driving the "destabisliing effect"

On 18 July 2013 12:00, Tim Reynolds <t...@christwithfries.net> wrote:

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07906948725

[Jonty Wareing]

Dean,

Given you have cited non-public events making it impossible for the community
to make judgements, I am going to post facts so members can make their own
minds up. The details below are undisputed, not statements of opinion.

> Charles has made a unsubsatiated, fabricated accusation agaisnt me in
> the past what I consider a significant accusation against me with no
> evidence that could stand any scruitiny you were privy to this.

On the 3rd of June the trustees received a formal complaint from Charles
Yarnold, stating that on the 29th of May Dean Forbes had acted in an
intimidating manner toward him in the space. According to the complaint Dean
had approached Charles wishing to "answer his accusations", and when Charles
indicated he was too busy to talk at that moment Dean acted in an intimidating
fashion.

Dean was emailed to ask for his side of the story, and he refuted the
allegation, returning a complaint of anti social conduct and dishonest conduct.

The trustees decided to investigate, with several of the trustees deciding to
abstain as they considered themselves prejudiced and unable to judge fairly.
This included Clare, who witnessed the conversation but considered herself to
have a conflict of interest.

We contacted everyone who was in the space that evening in an attempt to find
witnesses. Camera footage did not cover the area in question, and no
independent witnesses to the conversation could be found.

After exhausting all options to find evidence proving either side of the
complaint, the trustees emailed Dean to state that nothing was going to be done
due to lack of proof for either side. We also stated that we have no reason to
disbelieve Charles as he has never lied previously and had no motive to lie. We
also gave a list of things we wished to make clear that we believed may have
contributed to the initial complaint. The list is reproduced at the end of this
email for clarity.

> In response I complained againt such spurious and malicious
> allegations and dispite there not being evidence to back them up what
> so ever the orginisation declined to take action agaist it "own"
> surley it is extremly odd not to find either way

We took no action as there was no independent evidence for or against the
complaint, and requested that both parties attempt to be civil with one
another.

> My conversation with you as you know were very recent and at that
> point said there was no proper process for complaints, if that has
> changed perhaps you could point me to where this is ..... if complaint
> are seconded that would be a good start

Other members have complained about your behaviour, Charles was simply the
first instance where we considered it serious enough to investigate further.
The trustees attempt to stay out of personal matters unless they involve
violence or affect the space directly.

--jonty


----------
Section of the resolution email to Dean Forbes listing issues we wished to
address, dated 19th June 2012:
----------

Given the lack of witnesses backing either side of the argument we are not
issuing you with a formal or informal warning, however we would like to make the
following things clear:

* The trustees are members of the hackspace who have volunteered to take on
extra duties. This does not override their hackspace membership, and when they
are using the space you have no right to assume that they must drop everything
and talk to you about hackspace matters. We have nine elected trustees so that
at any given time at least some of us will be able to deal with hackspace
issues.

* Aggression and intimidation will not be tolerated in the hackspace. We know
that on occasion other members have perceived you to be an intimidating
presence. If you wish to be accepted by the larger community you must be aware
of how you act and respect other members. It is important to always remain
respectful of other people's boundaries.

* If you have issues with other members' conduct (even if they are trustees),
you should email trus...@london.hackspace.org.uk with specific details -
stating that someone is breaking the rules without specifying why makes it
impossible to resolve the situation. We take all reports seriously and if a
report concerns a trustee's conduct, that trustee will not take part in the
investigation.

* In a group of over 700 people it is impossible for every person to get on with
every other person. You should expect that some members may dislike you, and
you should deal with it gracefully.

* You need to accept that you are not always right in the eyes of others, and
when people disagree with you it is not because they are "not listening". Face
to face discussions can be tiresome when you talk over other people and refuse
to acknowledge their opinion.

[Dean Forbes (PERS)]

Jonty

More than happy for this email to be published in the public forum however as we both know it does not give the whole picture,one is to assume that I permitted to respond - I after this asked you to quantify some of the claims  that are made and the trustess declined to do so one has to assume that this is simply becuase they had no substance. 

I also raised the issue of Charles continued provocation with you which was ignored, around the week of your response he nudged me with his shoulder as he walked past me in the workshop (in my view trying to invoke a reaction) given your closing comment this is not what I would call civil behabviour and what is notable is you did nothing that I am aware of regarding this.

Evaluating or judging a complaint on a previously held personal views of a colleuge is not very objective I would suggest the wording would be correct if you stated that you were never aware of Charles lying before and that is hardly grounds to state good Character ,... that the event is alleged to have taken place in a crowded room and no one apart from his "partner witnessed it" and you have taken the line you have is interesting 

This has all ready taken up  to much of my time and assume  yours too

Enjoy the nice weather

Dean 

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07906948725

[Jonty Wareing]

Dean,

I was stating facts so that the community is aware of what happened, I
am not having this discussion with you again.

If you wish, we will publish every email between the trustees regarding
the issue, and every email between us and yourself, including the four
page PDF you sent us in response to the resolution email. We have
nothing to hide.

I am no longer willing to have any discussions with you that are not
on the public record, as no matter what is said or done you accuse us
of lying or misconduct. Nothing we do is good enough, and everything
has an ulterior motive.

You need to evaluate what your issues with the hackspace are. If you
can't trust the trustees to run it effectively then you either need to
get the members to call an EGM and elect new ones, or find another
space that you think is run in a way that satisfies you.

--jonty

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[Jon Fautley]

On 18 July 2013 14:55, Dean Forbes (PERS) <de...@deanforbes.com> wrote:
> This has all ready taken up to much of my time and assume yours too

and everyone else's time as well. You're obviously unaware that your
responses are not helping your situation in the slightest.

Please, take your own advice, enjoy the nice weather and step away
from the keyboard before you embarrass yourself any further.

Thanks

Jon

[Dean Forbes (PERS)]

@Jon I am enjoying the weather and no I don’t mind standing to be counted so am not embarrassed at all, from my part this is done and dusted 

 

@Jonty I have no issues with the Hackspace or trustees as such and never have what I have issue with is a lack of objective or impartial and honest behaviour from anybody, 

The Hackspace is a hobby not my life 

Jon

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[Jon Fautley]

On 18 July 2013 15:38, Dean Forbes (PERS) <de...@deanforbes.com> wrote:
> @Jon I am enjoying the weather and no I don’t mind standing to be counted so
> am not embarrassed at all, from my part this is done and dusted

If you really want to continue this then, are you happy for the
trustees to publish all their previous correspondence with you, as
referenced in Jonty's email?

[tom]

every thread you've replied to this week has spiralled out of control with unpunctuated ramblings. 

Can we ban dean from the ML for bit?

[Tim Reynolds]

Mailing list, the hackspace overall. This is ridiculous.

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[Jon Fautley]

On 18 July 2013 15:45, Tim Reynolds <t...@christwithfries.net> wrote:
> Mailing list, the hackspace overall. This is ridiculous.

This.

[Tim Reynolds]

"a lack of objective or impartial and honest behaviour from anybody"

From anybody?! Does this mean everyone is against you? You've got no
issues with the trustees apart from everything they do or say. The only
way I can see a discussion to end with you is for everyoen to give in to
your viewpoint and agree with you wholeheartedly. Anything less is a
grand conspiracy that must be rooted out. Damn this corrupt hackspace to
hell.

On 2013-07-18 15:38, Dean Forbes (PERS) wrote:
> @Jon I am enjoying the weather and no I don’t mind standing to be
> counted so am not embarrassed at all, from my part this is done and
> dusted 
>
>  
>
> @Jonty I have no issues with the Hackspace or trustees as such and
> never have what I have issue with is a lack of objective or impartial
> and honest behaviour from anybody, 
>
> The Hackspace is a hobby not my life 
>
> On 18 July 2013 15:23, Jon Fautley <jon.f...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 18 July 2013 14:55, Dean Forbes (PERS) <de...@deanforbes.com>
>> wrote:
>>> This has all ready taken up  to much of my time and assume  yours
>>> too
>>
>> and everyone else's time as well. You're obviously unaware that your
>> responses are not helping your situation in the slightest.
>>
>> Please, take your own advice, enjoy the nice weather and step away
>> from the keyboard before you embarrass yourself any further.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Jon
>>
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[Dean Forbes (PERS)]

Tim I believe I am enjoy the "right of reply" 

This thread is way of topic now as is your interpretation of my comment 

I am now truly done with it 

On 18 July 2013 15:58, Tim Reynolds <t...@christwithfries.net> wrote:

"a lack of objective or impartial and honest behaviour from anybody"

From anybody?! Does this mean everyone is against you? You've got no issues with the trustees apart from everything they do or say. The only way I can see a discussion to end with you is for everyoen to give in to your viewpoint and agree with you wholeheartedly. Anything less is a grand conspiracy that must be rooted out. Damn this corrupt hackspace to hell.


On 2013-07-18 15:38, Dean Forbes (PERS) wrote:

@Jon I am enjoying the weather and no I don’t mind standing to be
counted so am not embarrassed at all, from my part this is done and
dusted 

 

@Jonty I have no issues with the Hackspace or trustees as such and
never have what I have issue with is a lack of objective or impartial
and honest behaviour from anybody, 

The Hackspace is a hobby not my life 

On 18 July 2013 15:23, Jon Fautley <jon.f...@gmail.com> wrote:

On 18 July 2013 14:55, Dean Forbes (PERS) <de...@deanforbes.com> wrote:

This has all ready taken up  to much of my time and assume  yours too

and everyone else's time as well. You're obviously unaware that your
responses are not helping your situation in the slightest.

Please, take your own advice, enjoy the nice weather and step away
from the keyboard before you embarrass yourself any further.

Thanks

Jon

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[Tim Reynolds]

I didn't say you couldn't reply? I'm not persecuting you I'm just terribly confused by your conflicting statements and random proclamations of conspiracy. 

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[secret...@googlemail.com]

If I may take the liberty and reply(long time lurker)

On Thursday, July 18, 2013 4:06:03 PM UTC+1, Ndlovu (aka) Dean wrote:

Tim I believe I am enjoy the "right of reply" 

Trust me no one is enjoying this.

 

This thread is way of topic now as is your interpretation of my comment 

It appears to me, as a lay observer, that the trustees have been overtly forthcoming in trying to create a fair, reasonable and documented argument for the decision they came to. If they really did have it "in for you" as is implied, they wouldn't have bothered with due process and gone straight to saying that you were in the wrong. 

The very fact that trustees outwardly laid out their conflicts of interest should give you the hint that they are acting with care and caution. If they wished to create a whitewash, they would have moved straight to censure without contacting you, let alone documenting their actions.

This topic started out as an apology from a different member about a different incident. To a naive observer (such as my self) it smacks of grinding of axes.

I am now truly done with it 

Excellent, I trust we can all simmer down and continue to admire cats on the internet. 

 

On 18 July 2013 15:58, Tim Reynolds <t...@christwithfries.net> wrote:

"a lack of objective or impartial and honest behaviour from anybody"

From anybody?! Does this mean everyone is against you? You've got no issues with the trustees apart from everything they do or say. The only way I can see a discussion to end with you is for everyoen to give in to your viewpoint and agree with you wholeheartedly. Anything less is a grand conspiracy that must be rooted out. Damn this corrupt hackspace to hell.


On 2013-07-18 15:38, Dean Forbes (PERS) wrote:

@Jon I am enjoying the weather and no I don’t mind standing to be
counted so am not embarrassed at all, from my part this is done and
dusted 

 

@Jonty I have no issues with the Hackspace or trustees as such and
never have what I have issue with is a lack of objective or impartial
and honest behaviour from anybody, 

The Hackspace is a hobby not my life 

On 18 July 2013 15:23, Jon Fautley <jon.f...@gmail.com> wrote:

On 18 July 2013 14:55, Dean Forbes (PERS) <de...@deanforbes.com> wrote:

This has all ready taken up  to much of my time and assume  yours too

and everyone else's time as well. You're obviously unaware that your
responses are not helping your situation in the slightest.

Please, take your own advice, enjoy the nice weather and step away
from the keyboard before you embarrass yourself any further.

Thanks

Jon

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[X Malmesbury]

At the risk of being constructive - 

What would it take to apply the Oyster card reading setup to the gate? Put me down for £20 towards any hardware costs.....

[Johannes Krauser II]

On 18/07/2013 20:37, X Malmesbury wrote:
> At the risk of being constructive -
>
> What would it take to apply the Oyster card reading setup to the gate?

> Put me down for �20 towards any hardware costs.....
>
At a guess (and I'm clueless as to the spec of doorbot), the lock is
either a "normally open" or "normally closed", either of which is
trivial to circumvent if the wires are exposed, as they would be by
necessity at the back gate. It would turn requiring a serious bolt
cutter to get in into requiring a bit of wire and a battery to get in.

--Jo

[Henry Sands]

I think the type of gates we have make it impossible to put any kind of smart lock on it, all keycard/electrical lock gates I've seen have used either magnetic locks or sliding gates on rails with a heavy metal bolt.

[invent_or]

Nah. Buy a cheap RFID reader to suit, and stick it in a sealed bag. Put that in a tupperware style sealed box with grommets. Run a wire back to the building and into Doorbot or whatever, plus feed it some power. Run another signal wire out, to a relay. Wire whatever you like as a locking mechanism to said relay. Use as much steel as you like, just don't shield the RFID reader so well it doesn't work.

I'd probably go with a central locking motor from a car, running on ~12V, and have that push a big bit of steel bolt back and forth, or possibly lifting a counterbalanced arm. Protect it all inside a steel pipe, and job done.

Add a tamper feed loop if you want.

If you use a bit of Cat5, you'll have more than enough for the 5 cores you need. Perhaps double up on the power and ground, to be sure on current.

If you want to get really clever, use an RPi, battery, solar panel and WiFi to run it all, and avoid the wire issues.

Just don't go with magnets, unless they are shearmags, as they are far too easy to pop with a bit of shock and awe. Also, useless without power, and use plenty of it, so bad for running costs and the planet.
N

[Jasper Wallace]

On Thu, 18 Jul 2013, invent_or wrote:

> Nah. Buy a cheap RFID reader to suit, and stick it in a sealed bag. Put that in a tupperware style sealed box with grommets. Run a wire back
> to the building and into Doorbot or whatever, plus feed it some power. Run another signal wire out, to a relay. Wire whatever you like as a
> locking mechanism to said relay. Use as much steel as you like, just don't shield the RFID reader so well it doesn't work.
>
> I'd probably go with a central locking motor from a car, running on ~12V, and have that push a big bit of steel bolt back and forth, or
> possibly lifting a counterbalanced arm. Protect it all inside a steel pipe, and job done.
>
> Add a tamper feed loop if you want.
>
> If you use a bit of Cat5, you'll have more than enough for the 5 cores you need. Perhaps double up on the power and ground, to be sure on
> current.

We've been wanting to do this for a while, the stumbling block is finding
someone who can do the metal fabrication[1] and fitting - the two gates
don't quite line up, so the bolt (or whatever gets used to secure it) need
to tolerate a bit of missmatch in positioning.

[1] the other metal fabrication job is making mounting brackets for the
big drop down screen to mount it in the classroom.

> If you want to get really clever, use an RPi, battery, solar panel and WiFi to run it all, and avoid the wire issues.

We'd just run mains down there, having a light at the back of the yard
and along the east wall would be nice as well.

> Just don't go with magnets, unless they are shearmags, as they are far too easy to pop with a bit of shock and awe. Also, useless without
> power, and use plenty of it, so bad for running costs and the planet.
> N
>
> On Thursday, 18 July 2013 23:19:23 UTC+1, Henry Sands wrote:
> I think the type of gates we have make it impossible to put any kind of smart lock on it, all keycard/electrical lock
> gates I've seen have used either magnetic locks or sliding gates on rails with a heavy metal bolt.
>

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[Peter "Sci" Turpin]

I would not be happy to entrust the security of the space and all it's
belongings, or even just those in the carpark, to anything that's
secured by Tupperware.
If someone sees a couple of wires running into the mechanism they don't
need a degree in cryptography to get in. They'll smash the control box,
and poke the wires onto the power supply until the mechanism powers up.
And even if they don't do the latter you can guarantee they'll do the
former trying.

Short form; if we go for an exposed electronic entry system, we can
expect to spend money building it properly.
Even shorter form; no Tupperware.

Now since doing so to the car park gates would be difficult for a lot of
mechanical reasons, what about creating a seperate *pedestrian entry
gate* in addition to the vehicle gate? Unless I'm much mistaken
something like that would be much more feasible for secure electronic
control. If it's sprung to auto-close and wide enough to get a bicycle
through, 99% of the main gate usage issues vanish.

Whether we'd be allowed to make such a modification to the fence is
another matter though. Something to bring up with the landlords.

[Aden]

For the classroom screen i think the cable tray brackets will work.

[Peter "Sci" Turpin]

As mentioned (IE; buried) in my other reply, perhaps adding a dedicated
pedestrian access gate would be simpler and more secure than facing the
mechanical challenges of electronic access on high-mass double gates
with alignment reliability and over-swing issues, and all the repeated
flexing cable problems associated with running wire over hinges?

A gate in the fence in the corner near the wall would allow a far less
exposed cable run, easy positioning of security lighting, gate camera,
mounting of control electronics out of reach from the pavement.. And
being smaller it would be easier to make it automatically closing.

Using the vehicle gates for pedestrian traffic is overkill anyway. If a
pedestrian gate is large enough to fit a bicycle through it'll see the
vast majority of the traffic.

[Russ Garrett]

On 19 July 2013 01:47, Peter "Sci" Turpin <s...@sci-fi-fox.com> wrote:
> Now since doing so to the car park gates would be difficult for a lot of
> mechanical reasons, what about creating a seperate *pedestrian entry gate*
> in addition to the vehicle gate? Unless I'm much mistaken something like
> that would be much more feasible for secure electronic control. If it's
> sprung to auto-close and wide enough to get a bicycle through, 99% of the
> main gate usage issues vanish.

This is currently the plan. I don't think there's any way we can fit
an electronic lock to the existing gate.


--
Russ Garrett
ru...@garrett.co.uk

[invent_or]

Waterproofed by tupperware, and secured by as much steel armour as you want. Just, as I said, don't put a big steel plate over the actual reader head.

If you are really concerned about someone magically hacking the cable, use a microprocessor, a rolling code and a stepper motor drive, but better to simply alarm the cable against tampering. That way if someone tries cutting the cable, the alarm sounds, emails are sent, etc. If they get really creative and start injecting voltages - well, do many people have the ability to generate 24V AC on them? Or if they attack the reader, to inject a serial stream of data that matches the database entry of a member?

Really, it's far more likely that someone would simply clone a members card and walk in with that faked card, in the same way they'd be more likely to either shoulder surf or social engineer the code for the padlock, rather than grind it off or decode it.

N

[Jon Fautley]

On 19 July 2013 21:46, invent_or <yt...@discreetsecuritysolutions.com> wrote:
> Really, it's far more likely that someone would simply clone a members card
> and walk in with that faked card, in the same way they'd be more likely to
> either shoulder surf or social engineer the code for the padlock, rather
> than grind it off or decode it.

Or they'd just follow another member through the gate...

[andyf...@gmail.com]

> in the same way they'd be more likely to
> either shoulder surf or social engineer the code for the padlock, rather
> than grind it off or decode it.

Or they'd just follow another member through the gate...

Which is what shoulder surf means.

Andy

[Jon Fautley]

On 20 Jul 2013, at 17:06, andyf...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Or they'd just follow another member through the gate...
> Which is what shoulder surf means.

Not normally it doesn't:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoulder_surfing_(computer_security)

[Matt Platts]

The word you are looking for is 'tailgating'.

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[invent_or]

No, the word you are looking for is 'Bikeshedding' ;-)

Shouldersurfing is watching over someone's shoulder to see their PIN or code.

Tailgating is simply catching the gate before it locks and following through.

Both are stopped by decent design and software. You can stop both with user education too, which might be easier.
N

[invent_or]

[invent_or]

[Billy]

One time,when i was sharing a flat with a couple of band-members, we came back to the flat and were talking in the kitchen with a few post-gig beers.

My girlfriend listened to the conversation and asked a question about etymology. "Which was more correct, 'Pedantry' or 'Pedanticism'?"

We argued about it for half an hour, before we realised that she was taking the piss... :))

[cepm...@yahoo.co.uk]

Pedantness?

On Mon, 22 Jul 2013 14:21:22 +0100, Billy <bi...@billycomputersmith.com>
wrote:

--
" et cognoscetis veritatem et veritas liberabit vos. "

[Henry Sands]

Getting back on topic, I came in today at around 10 past 2 and found the gate padlock unscrambled AGAIN

[invent_or]

Gah, stupid Google Groups. Sorry for the triple post from the mobile phone there.

Yeah, if the lock needs scrambled each time, change the lock to one that auto-scrambles. A good one for that is the Supra keysafe and its clones. They do a padlock version too. Or, get one and fit it so the locking part blocks a bolt. The lock autoresets when locked, and the buttons are hard to decode, so that would likely be an improvement over whatever padlock you are currently using.

Or change it for access control.
N

[Martin G4GRS]

The nice thing about arriving by Helicopter is that I don't have to worry about the Gate Lock.

On Wednesday, July 17, 2013 10:36:56 AM UTC+1, Michael Trew wrote:

I am apparently being accused by the trustees of deliberately leaving the gate padlock unscrambled

 

this allegation is totally false

 

I believe the mistaken allegation is being made as a result of a misunderstanding that occurred during a specific incident about a month ago…

 

I was cycling away from the Hackspace along Emma Street when someone who I didn’t recognize ran down from the caravan toward the gate and screamed “you didn’t scramble the lock”

 

he then ran back up to the caravan where a whole group of people drinking beer seemed to find his behaviour highly amusing

 

it wasn’t even me who closed the gate, as I’d been in Emma Street for about 10 minutes chatting to friends, during which time at least one other member had opened and closed the gate

 

 I did once forget to scramble the lock, but that won't happen again