Just FaB (Food and Beverages)

[fabio pironti]

I'm writing to ask a temporary permission to park a double decker bus. I'm converting it to a street food vegetarian bus, in the back yard.
The lower floor is done already, we fit a full kitchen in it, but I still have to fit chairs and tables on the top floor and to do it will be much more faster
if I can have the bus nearby the tools to cut bespoke sizes etc etc.
I think i will need ten days max 2 weeks.

What do you think about it ?

It is not excluded that some interesting collaboration could start.
If any of you has got any good ideas or suggestion regarding this project, maybe could be realised.

- does anybody knows about hydrogen conversion ?

Thanks for your time

Fabio_VJ Klat
VideoHackSpace

[Dan]

Isn't the yard kind of cramped already? With the caravan, the mast, the cabin, bike racks and shipping container that are already there, plus the usual amount of parking space, would there even be room for a bus?

[Adrian Godwin]

Maybe it could wait until the shiping container has gone ?

On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 4:13 AM, Dan <toxyntheco...@gmail.com> wrote:

Isn't the yard kind of cramped already? With the caravan, the mast, the cabin, bike racks and shipping container that are already there, plus the usual amount of parking space, would there even be room for a bus?

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[Henry Sands]

Whilst I think this is a really fun idea, I do not think we have the space for it currently with everything else that is going on in the yard, it has been noticeably full with parked cards whenever I have been down. When the shipping container is completed and removed there should be space.

[fabio pironti]

Yes you're right the yard is crowded but I think the bus can fit and that's why I'm asking it.
I would like you to consider that I need to work on it, not just parking it.
I think once is a project running on that would have more importance than the car parked.
I assume LHS as a place to realize ideas, not a parking lot or a storage place.
The antenna has been there for months but i never saw people working on that.
I just need 10 days, not months.
When do you think the shipping container will leave?
or
When do you think it could be possible?
I'm already super late on my schedule to finish the bus and start to work with it in festivals and events.

[Tim Reynolds]

On 01/05/2014 13:43, fabio pironti wrote:
> Yes you're right the yard is crowded but I think the bus can fit and
> that's why I'm asking it.

Other people are entitled to a conflicting opinion.

> I would like you to consider that I need to work on it, not just parking
> it.

All of the projects in the car park are being worked on.

> I think once is a project running on that would have more importance
> than the car parked.

People getting to the space is just as important. Not everyone can get
public transport in.

> I assume LHS as a place to realize ideas, not a parking lot or a storage
> place.

It is, but we also have to leave space for people to park. Again, not
everyone can get public transport in.

> The antenna has been there for months but i never saw people working on
> that.

Then you haven't been around enough. it's been stripped, painted, seals
ordered, engined reconditioned, etc - belittling other projects will win
you no support.

> I just need 10 days, not months.
> When do you think the shipping container will leave?
> or
> When do you think it could be possible?

The shipping container has a defined end date, if you look back in the
mailing list archive you can find it.

> I'm already super late on my schedule to finish the bus and start to
> work with it in festivals and events.
>

There are paid working spaces available all over London. You could rent
a workspace if it's urgent.

[Warren Rockley]

I think that a double decker bus will fit in the yard.... not a lot else will though once it is in.
Perhaps drive in, work, take it away again might be better.

Hydrogen conversions are easy mate (engine wise), similar to LPG conversion. You have 2x problems, 1. how to generate/store the gas. 2. You realise that your decker is Diesel?

As an aside, do you have any smaller projects, perhaps something with an arduino?

[fabio pironti]

Hi Tim, I'm sorry you misunderstood my point of view
 
I was not belittling other projects at all, I was just saying that maybe there could be some space for 10 days.
Looking in the yard I thought it could be the place. that's all.

[Peter "Sci" Turpin]

Provided it's roadworthy and therefore not likely to end up stuck here,
sounds provisionally fine. Usual work/noise hours apply, etc.

My only concern is space, since we've got a few large items in the
car-park now and a double-decker has quite a big footprint.

I think the only place it could fit would be along the fence, and that's
only if Maria's available to move her morris minor project to the other
side of the car-park. I think the radio mast is already over there.

I suspect this would leave us with roughly 3 car parking spaces out of
the entire car-park for actually parking visitors cars!

If accepted we'd likely need to draw up some additional temporary
parking bays alongside the bus and container, rather than in the
original positions.

Also I think it would mean the car-park is definitely "full" for large
projects for the duration.


This request raises the unasked question of how much of the car-park
needs to remain usable as a car-park vs project space. Personally, I'd
estimate we need to still be able to safely allocate space to 5 visitors
cars, absolute minimum. We could likely also do with zone markings like
in the basement so the delivery bay & road access remain clear.

After-all, summer's coming and we'll probably see more requests to take
advantage of the outdoor space. In any case, a topic to branch to
another thread.

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[Martin (Crypt)]

At the last space we had 2 parking spaces and they weren't always in use.  There is a need for some parking space, but 3 spaces for cars should be enough.

My main concern is that the project should be finished in time for the open day if we have one on 1st June.  On the open days we traditionally have BBQ and other projects out in the yard, and would be very difficult if we couldn't do that.  However, since you only want it for 10 days then it shouldn't be a problem.

It really would be good to plan out exactly where its going to go though, so we can maintain reasonable parking bays

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[fabio pironti]

Thanks Warren, I was thinking about this solution too.
Could it be a solution to the problem?

Talking about hydrogen I heard is possible on diesel too,
I saw this: http://www.revolve.co.uk/Projects/Bi-fuel-diesel-conversion

Of course i've been working on smaller project's and I will again in the future, even smaller than arduino, but now is the time to think bigger for me. ;)

[fabio pironti]

I agree. That's reasonable.
Having the projects space and the parking space with zone markings, but i agree with martin
that maybe 4 spaces would be enough, 1 of the 4 could be just for loads/unloads, and could be in front of the elevator bay. 

> <mailto:london-hack-space+unsub...@googlegroups.com>.

[wyan std]

Waiting for the container project to be finished and taking up that spot then sounds reasonable. I would argue for a removal deposit just as we asked the container owners.

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[fabio pironti]

As i wrote already is not gonna be more than 10 days.
The bus should be here in about a week( lets consider the 10th)
so 10th days could be 20th.
I just got an idea:
the bus is gonna be ready to work it means wre have a kitchen and seats tablesplus some extra foldable benches (x8) and tables (x4) that could be used for the open day.
Just remember that we're not gonna cook meat or fis and derivates on the bus BBQ can be done outside.
I think it could be very nice to have the bus for the Open Day.

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[Adrian Godwin]

Projects have a bit of a habit of overunning unexpectedly. Maybe this won't happen with the bus, but I think it would be worth discussing what would happen if in 10 days you asked for more time. If we can agree in advance that we'd allow 5 more days but no more, it would help you plan.

[Stephen Lavelle]

This all sounds good to me (contingent on no problems being caused for people driving/parking here, which I gather should be manageable).

[fabio pironti]

As I wrote the bus is nearby ready, 10 days should be enough.
Having 5 extra security days would be awesome, considering that the bus should be ready in 10.

On Thursday, May 1, 2014 2:47:37 PM UTC+1, Adrian Godwin wrote:

[Rich Maynard]

If he runs over 15 days we get to keep the bus? That'd be one heck of a spaceship simulator...

Seriously I think this is an enormous amount of the space's limited resources for one member to take up, and from what I can make out it's for a commercial venture anyway. I'm inclined to 'vote' no, despite my love of buses.

RichM

[fabio pironti]

It won't run over ten maybe one or two more or less. Sure no more than 15. 

The food bus is an idea I have since many years and now I'm realising it to make it a source of living. I don't find money under my pillow. 

Yes Is gonna be commercial but selling vegetarian healthy and tasty food. Not poisons from the big multinationals. 

I want to add that I just offer you the opportunity to use the bus for the open day and that's not gonna be commercial. I mean we should talk better about this if we'll do it. 

. 

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VjKlat aka Fabio Pironti

www.vjklat.com

just ... google me !!!

[Henry Sands]

Sorry, I'm going to reiterate my point, despite the fact that it is a really really cool idea, there is simply not the space to do it within our yard, please come and look for yourself.

On Thursday, 1 May 2014 15:15:57 UTC+1, fabio pironti wrote:

It won't run over ten maybe one or two more or less. Sure no more than 15. 

The food bus is an idea I have since many years and now I'm realising it to make it a source of living. I don't find money under my pillow. 

Yes Is gonna be commercial but selling vegetarian healthy and tasty food. Not poisons from the big multinationals. 

I want to add that I just offer you the opportunity to use the bus for the open day and that's not gonna be commercial. I mean we should talk better about this if we'll do it. 

. 

On Thursday, 1 May 2014, Rich Maynard <richjm...@gmail.com> wrote:

If he runs over 15 days we get to keep the bus? That'd be one heck of a spaceship simulator...

Seriously I think this is an enormous amount of the space's limited resources for one member to take up, and from what I can make out it's for a commercial venture anyway. I'm inclined to 'vote' no, despite my love of buses.

RichM

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[tgreer]

It won't fit in the yard. Simple as

On Thursday, 1 May 2014 15:15:57 UTC+1, fabio pironti wrote:

It won't run over ten maybe one or two more or less. Sure no more than 15. 

The food bus is an idea I have since many years and now I'm realising it to make it a source of living. I don't find money under my pillow. 

Yes Is gonna be commercial but selling vegetarian healthy and tasty food. Not poisons from the big multinationals. 

I want to add that I just offer you the opportunity to use the bus for the open day and that's not gonna be commercial. I mean we should talk better about this if we'll do it. 

. 

On Thursday, 1 May 2014, Rich Maynard <richjm...@gmail.com> wrote:

If he runs over 15 days we get to keep the bus? That'd be one heck of a spaceship simulator...

Seriously I think this is an enormous amount of the space's limited resources for one member to take up, and from what I can make out it's for a commercial venture anyway. I'm inclined to 'vote' no, despite my love of buses.

RichM

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[Adrian Godwin]

I've got no problem with it being a commercial venture. Plenty of people are using the space to allow them to get started with money earning stuff, and good luck to them.

If he was asking for a permanent parking space I'd say no, but I don't think 10 days is an excessive time. I'm sure we've had inconvenient projects that used resources for that long (eg the caravan taking one of the three spaces at Cremer St for a short while).

[tgreer]

Adrian it simply won't fit in the yard, we have too many large things in the yard as it is.

[jo...@jonty.co.uk]

I have to agree with Tom - if the shipping container wasn't there we'd have room, but I'm not sure where we can fit this at the moment.

Fabio: Can you give us the dimensions of the bus so we can confirm this?

 

Thanks,

--jonty

[fabio pironti]

roughly 9,50 x 3 mt.

[jo...@jonty.co.uk]

Yeah, I think fitting that in the yard at the moment would be tricky to say the least.

The project sounds great though - once the shipping container has gone I would have thought it should be possible to fit it in for a short stay.

--jonty

[fabio pironti]

roughly 9,50 x 3 mt. I think that moving the antenna wont be that difficult and the hydroponic system too.
I think it can be possible to rearrange the space without such big work.

On Thursday, May 1, 2014 3:42:19 PM UTC+1, Jonty Wareing wrote:

[Adrian Godwin]

Could you make a sketch plan of the yard showing how it would fit ?

[jo...@jonty.co.uk]

The issue is that we're _already_ frequently out of parking spaces, and losing three more is something that is unfair to the membership.

--jonty

[nope]

Nice project, but:

massive use of space

seems to be commercial

and I have concerns about your timekeeping: I'm inclined to not trust anyone who sets a very close deadline, but is already "super late"...

That and out neighbors must love us... Busses are pretty visually intrusive - a shipping container is one thing, but a 2 storey red thing is a bit OTT.

I, mikechislett vote NO.

[fabio pironti]

i think is the time to introduce you Rocky, my bus. Everybody who saw him loved it.
I just need to fit 10 tables over the original seats twisted, most of which already twisted plus decorating.

[Sarah Simmonds]

I'm not open to moving the hydroponics system any more than absolutely necessary. It's lifeline is the power line that's been purpose installed out to where it currently is. Power goes off, plants die.

The shipping container project is due to be removed 8 weeks from April 4th, which makes it date of removal May 30th. There isn't any other pressing demands on that space when it's gone so you're welcome to use it. If you can't wait 4 weeks then may I suggest you look for another space that can cater to your needs in the immediate term.

On Thursday, May 1, 2014 4:05:54 PM UTC+1, nope wrote:

[Nigel Worsley]

> roughly 9,50 x 3 mt.

Ah, not a routemaster then, a bigger bus!

> I think that moving the antenna wont be that difficult and the hydroponic system too.

Both are in their current location for a good reason, they can't be arbitrarily moved
around to suit one person's excessively large project.

You want to take up a huge amount of space in the car park, and in another thread
you want to take over the whole of the main space for another pet project. You
dismiss out of hand all practical difficulties and inconveniences to many other
members that these projects may cause. By your own admission you have been
unable to keep to a schedule on this project. You come across as being more than
a little selfish, saying how others can change their activities to work around you,
while making no concessions at all yourself.

A big NO vote from me.

Nigle

[Akki]

This is a bit off topic but:

- People parked elsewhere when they needed to at the old space. This is harder to do with limited legal parking available near the space.
- We were approximately 500+ members smaller in the old space.
- Probably a larger percentage drive to the space than before (citation needed but I think that is the case generally)

Yard's getting pretty crowded, security risks, people sneaking in, hiding between vehicles up to no good, no. please don't. Even if that doesn't happen, it's still going to make the yard look even more like a junk yard than it already is.

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[fabio pironti]

I can tell you professionally that the plants won't die if you switch the source of power. they can stay a bit more.
The most important things is not leaving them without constant irroration for more than the time the roots are getting dry.
I'm an agronomist. Spec. in Horticulture in an out of soil neglected crops culture.

[Russ Garrett]

That's a great-looking conversion. However, I am going to have to agree with everyone else and say that we don't have enough space in the car park currently. If the container wasn't there then I think my opinion would be different.

Russ

Russ Garrett
ru...@garrett.co.uk

[fabio pironti]

I think you misunderstood.
I don't see difficulties that can't be solved.
little selfish ?
for what ?
because i'm proposing two big projects?
we're still talking about a project that is gonna take maybe 10 days in the yard and one other
to be host by a no profit visual collective that is trying to spread the visual world to other people?
I can't really believe what i'm reading. 

[jo...@jonty.co.uk]

You are proposing to take over a huge amount of space that we _actually use_ and ignoring our requests to wait until we have space that can be allocated. We have said there is space available when one of the other large projects finishes shortly.

It is not just "space", it is our car park, you would be making it very difficult for every member who drives to the space to attend. On Tuesday nights almost every single parking space is in use, and it is not uncommon to find the car park so full that people have to double-park or find space on the street nearby.

Many people in the space are part of nonprofits that are attempting to expand, but none of them do so at the cost of inconveniencing the other 900 members of the space for their own personal gain. The hackspace is a shared space used for many purposes, and you have to balance your activities with those of others.

--jonty

--

[Peter "Sci" Turpin]

Removable deposit shouldn't be *necessary* as long as a vehicle remains
roadworthy. IE; it can be driven away. (though it sure sweetens a deal
to offer) The container however requires specialist transport hire to
remove, so is very necessary in that case.

If they were taking out the engine or the vehicle was arriving on a
trailer, it'd be quite different.

Broadly speaking, the difference is of dependence. One can be removed
without outside help, the other cannot.
The above should be considered with any project requesting use of the yard.

On 01/05/2014 14:38, wyan std wrote:
> Waiting for the container project to be finished and taking up that spot
> then sounds reasonable. I would argue for a removal deposit just as we
> asked the container owners.
>
>
> On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 2:34 PM, fabio pironti <vjk...@gmail.com
> <mailto:vjk...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> I agree. That's reasonable.
> Having the projects space and the parking space with zone markings,
> but i agree with martin
> that maybe 4 spaces would be enough, 1 of the 4 could be just for
> loads/unloads, and could be in front of the elevator bay.

[fabio pironti]

I agree with all what you said and I didn't said I can't wait. 

I think it's normal on Tuesday night 

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[jo...@jonty.co.uk]

It is probably worth pointing out that I love the look of the project - its very impressive, we just can't offer it space until the shipping container housing project ends in a few weeks.

--jonty

[Rich Maynard]

It looks like you did the kitchen conversion in a big covered space which is a much better option than the car park - is that not still available to you?

RichM

[David Sullivan]

There's a copy of the lease plan to base such a sketch on on the London Hackspace github, it shows the layout of the car park and ground floor on page 1:

https://github.com/londonhackspace/hackneyroad/raw/master/lease-plan.pdf

Sully.

[fabio pironti]

That's in Manchester. I planned to do the top floor works in London.
Once i'm a member I thought that cutting some woods and decorating the bus shouldnt be a problem once there are already such big projects running.
This is the last step of a project that started months ago.

[Martin Dittus]

So let’s summarise.

If I read everyone’s input correctly so far the new suggested approach is to wait until the container is out, and then put the bus in the same corner. 10 days max, with a grace period of 5 days.

Fabio, could you sketch the proposed parking space in the leas plan that David linked to below?

The question about a deposit — yes in principle the bus is movable, in contrast to containers. However does that mean we’d like to put a spare key in our keysafe in lieu of a deposit? Can others even legally drive it, if needed? (Maybe that is now over-thinking the situation.)

Fabio, I’d also recommend that you get in touch with the container group and check with them what their expected schedule is. (I’m told the initial period was 4 weeks from 1 April, however they ran into some complications — they had to replace the flooring -- which potentially means they may overrun a little.)

Any other considerations?

m.

[Mark Steward]

On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 4:59 PM, fabio pironti <vjk...@gmail.com> wrote:

That's in Manchester. I planned to do the top floor works in London.
Once i'm a member I thought that cutting some woods and decorating the bus shouldnt be a problem once there are already such big projects running.

 

That is your assumption, and doesn't create an obligation on the part of the space. We've been bitten many times in the past by projects that cause unintended problems, and it's nothing personal that we want to be sure your project goes smoothly.

Mark

[Martin Dittus]

On 1 May 2014, at 17:00, Martin Dittus <dek...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Fabio, I’d also recommend that you get in touch with the container group and check with them what their expected schedule is. (I’m told the initial period was 4 weeks from 1 April, however they ran into some complications — they had to replace the flooring -- which potentially means they may overrun a little.)

Oops — that’s 8 weeks from 4 April. So ~30 May expected finish date.

For reference, the full container discussion is here:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/london-hack-space/g15asfYkltg/jGV92EoThHIJ

m.

[Monty]

There's probably more than enough room for storing any wood and cuts you need. Is it possible you could do the cuts now and then do the fitting and decorating a bit later when space in the yard has freed up?

[fabio pironti]

ok . so..
I don't have those group contact, it would be appreciated to have it.
10 + eventually 5 grace days will be more than fine
I'll pass by the Hack Space now to check and draw the proposed layout.
About the key .... we have only one key at the moment and with a particular shape, anyway this is not the point.
The insurance is on the name of a trusted driver i couldn't manage it differently.

I would like to remind you the offer for the Open day on the 1st of june, but it depends from the container timetable.
I'll send you a sketch soon.

[fabio pironti]

at this point I'll probably do like this.

[Monty]

Awesome!! Any idea of timeframes and the storage space that would be needed for wood/cuts? Also, how that would tie in with the bus turning up at a later date?

:)

[Sue Spence]

On Thursday, 1 May 2014 14:02:43 UTC+1, fabio pironti wrote:

Hi Tim, I'm sorry you misunderstood my point of view

I don't believe that he misunderstood you at all, and I doubt you do either.
 

 
I was not belittling other projects at all, I was just saying that maybe there could be some space for 10 days.
Looking in the yard I thought it could be the place. that's all.

Given your demands (thinly disguised as requests) today, and the way that you approach discussion regarding them, I'd feel like saying no even if the yard happened to be empty.  Think about that for a bit.

[David Murphy]

I am 100% in favor of the project but space is a bit low at the moment. 

I also think we need to re-arrange the carpark a little as it's currently too chaotic. 

I am perfectly happy for this to take the place of the shipping container the day it moves out. think you can wait the 25 days? 

[fabio pironti]

I attached the sketch of the yard that i roughly made.
1 is the container. 2 is the suggested position for the bus, if possible.

I don't think is gonna be that much.
The amount of wood is not that much. it's about ten tables, each of one is a piece of wood, around 40 cm x 90 cm x 2,5, with one leg.

I actually cant find anymore  the contact of the container group here in this post. I don't know if i deleted by mistake.

On Friday, May 2, 2014 12:03:42 AM UTC+1, Monty wrote:

Awesome!! Any idea of timeframes and the storage space that would be needed for wood/cuts? Also, how that would tie in with the bus turning up at a later date?

:)



On Thursday, 1 May 2014 17:20:36 UTC+1, fabio pironti wrote:

at this point I'll probably do like this.

On Thursday, May 1, 2014 5:16:42 PM UTC+1, Monty wrote:

There's probably more than enough room for storing any wood and cuts you need. Is it possible you could do the cuts now and then do the fitting and decorating a bit later when space in the yard has freed up?

On Thursday, 1 May 2014 16:59:11 UTC+1, fabio pironti wrote:

That's in Manchester. I planned to do the top floor works in London.

Once I'm a member I thought that cutting some woods and decorating the bus shouldn't be a problem once there are already such big projects running.

[fabio pironti]

My approach? I think i've been asking a permission, not pretending
and I was not belittling any group/project.

I was just suggesting that some things could be moved to better organise the space.
I think that if this topic had been live it would be easyer.
I still think there was a misunderstood.

[Dan]

I'm not sure if you've looked in the yard lately, but there are some bike racks in the way of your plan... You'd also need to allow enough space to access them. That, and you'd need to make sure you've left sufficient space for people to maneuver into spaces on the other side and around the yard in general...

[Bunsen]

While not taking a stance on the bus in the yard question, it might be worth pointing out that last time I checked, the pavement on The Oval (100 metres from back gate) seemed to be some kind of parking grey zone. If you got the bus onto there, it would be within very easy access of the hackspace without taking up yard space.

[James Cadman]

I imagine it would be clarified pretty quickly if a double decker bus was parked there!!

Personally, as someone who has to drive to the space I'm not in favour of this happening until the container goes, its tricky getting parked considerately at the moment let alone adding a big bus to the mix.

James.

[George Cox]

I vote yes

On Thursday, May 1, 2014 2:12:16 AM UTC+1, fabio pironti wrote:

I'm writing to ask a temporary permission to park a double decker bus. I'm converting it to a street food vegetarian bus, in the back yard.
The lower floor is done already, we fit a full kitchen in it, but I still have to fit chairs and tables on the top floor and to do it will be much more faster
if I can have the bus nearby the tools to cut bespoke sizes etc etc.
I think i will need ten days max 2 weeks.

What do you think about it ?

It is not excluded that some interesting collaboration could start.
If any of you has got any good ideas or suggestion regarding this project, maybe could be realised.

- does anybody knows about hydrogen conversion ?

Thanks for your time

Fabio_VJ Klat
VideoHackSpace

[Bunsen]

Doubt it - someone parked a big old army truck there for well over a year. Think they might have been partly living in it too. No hassles, even when the DVLA did a sweep.

Anyway my information is old, so OP would need to go and reccy it himslef.

[Martin G4GRS]

Important Question. We've established the bus is vegetarian (as stated) but is it Red?

[da...@justaride.org]

Personally I'm in 2 minds about this.

I would be interested in a project around a double decker bus as I have some vague plans involving one!

On the other hand I'm one of the people who drives in and secure parking is major benefit to me!

The bit that counts against you is the sketch showing where the bus might go really doesn't tally up with the sizes you gave for the bus. 9.5m is actually quite a bit longer than you indicated on the plan.

I've drawn a far more accurate 9.5 x 3 on the attached file as red boxes.

Once the shipping container leaves I think this will still be interesting enough to be worth having for the 10 days you are asking. 

Even though it will eat yet another parking space...

David

[fabio pironti]

Hi everybody. Here I am again. As i noticed the container is still there. what to do ?

[Stephen Lavelle]

They've asked for an extension -

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/london-hack-space/container/london-hack-space/oP_HUqji9HM/d7u03-ZQA-cJ

[fabio pironti]

I saw they've been asking for an extension, I love the project too, but this means the whole container project will last 3 months ? or more ?

Actually i don't know what to think.
I just asked you some help, I need 10 days, max 2 weeks time to finish my project.

As discussed here I've been waiting a month and now it comes out that they need much more time to finish it.

What to do ?

What if the bus would be parked along the fence, on the same line of the container ? the cars could still be parked along the bus.... ( at least 2 if not 3) plus we got other space to park members cars (maybe 2-3) near the hydroponic system.

what do you think ?

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[Mark Steward]

Given we're past the open day now, and it does look like it would fit, I'm inclined to say this could work.

Anyone else?

Mark

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[Adrian Godwin]

The fence seems plenty long enough. And I like the idea of a bus-based project (I recently worked on a museum in a single-decker bus). I think it just needs some guarding around the hydroponics, as that corner will take most of the cars.

[Fabrizio D'Amico]

I vote yes

[tgreer]

How tall is this bus? We have an antenna across the carpark and would need notice to de-rig the antenna so you don't destroy it.

[Lynz]

I'm still not convinced this will fit in the car park while the container is there.

Before this gets given any kind of go ahead I'd like to see a proper sketch of the planned location, taking into account the items already in the car park (shipping container, caravan, storage unit, bike loops). That way we know for certain if it will fit, and we can determine if sufficient parking space would remain. The rough sketch previously provided didn't really cover those things.

It sounds like a cool project, but as we are limited on space out the back it would be good to know it will definitely fit before the bus arrives at the gate!

[Clare Greenhalgh]

I agree with Lynz. I am also not convinced it will fit with the container so we need proper measurements and need to take the turning circle the bus has into account too. If it fits but with little clearance it is unlikely to be able to be parked.

It is a very cool project but we just have to be sure it will fit.....

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[Akki]

+1, Do proper, full measurements and allow for working-around space for getting in and out of the bus etc. I'm not convinced it won't be a massive space issue, either, especially not with TO SCALE diagrams provided. The people with the container project were here first, they get to finish their project first. It's only polite.

We are NOT here to serve one person's project over the other nearly 1000 members (and various hangers-on that aren't members). Wait your turn or go find somewhere else that will graciously allow you use of their car park for 10 days on the cheap.

[Akki]

er i meant without a to scale diagram considering the previous diagram was not to scale, herpderp posted too quick without proofreading >.< Sorry

[fabio pironti]

Just to clarify I took all the measurement today. I hope this will satisfy your requests. One square on the drawing correspond to 1 meter.

By this layout we can have up to 5 , maybe 6 or 7 parking lots.

If we put bus and container on the same line we could also put two cars near the bus and one near the container, leaving 8-10 meters in

the middle between the two car parked near the bus and the simulator, considering that we can get some more space if needed getting the

simulator a bit closer to the cabin and the 7th parking lot arranging differently the antenna and the hydro system.

The bus is 4,5 mt tall, sized 10,5 x 2,55. Regarding the antenna we just have to pull up a bit the wire while the bus will get in.

There will be enough space both to park the bicycles and to open the container.

[Clare Greenhalgh]

Getting three cars into positions 8, 9 and 10 will be a challenge. I am worried, therefore, that getting the bus into the position marked on this is also impossible. The scale is till out (for example with the bikes in position 11) so I am not convinced anything else is actually correct (for example the container is square, which it isn't on this diagram).

Thanks

--

[Mark Steward]

The container's square? In which direction?

I've seen cars in 8, 9 & 10 (one of which was mine).

The only problem I can see is that there's currently a car at point 12, which will need to be moved when it arrives.

Mark

[James Beyer]

I like this Project as well and see that once the container is completed we will have sufficient space to accommodate.

Though at the moment however, your diagram only accounts for 5 possible car parking spaces.
I'm sure the question on everyone's mind with your proposal is what happens when we exceed this amount (especially weekends), where are people going to park?

Also what happens when you drive into the car park and a larger vehicle than a standard hatchback is parked in spaces numbered 10 or 9. We would instantly loose access to at least one parking space for a duration, whilst we find the owners, Its a viscous circle!!

Every member of the London Hackspace has equal opportunities, they should not have to make huge compromises for one persons project.
I would suggest you wait until the container is completed and moved out before you step on any more toes...

Please take this information into account. By the sounds of peoples comments you will be able on the 'cheap' to get your project completed soon..

In the meantime enjoy your weekend

-James

[fabio pironti]

"Every member of the London Hackspace has equal opportunities, they should not have to make huge compromises for one persons project.
I would suggest you wait until the container is completed and moved out before you step on any more toes..."

THAT'S NOT TRUE !!!
Not every member  has access to the parking area.

I still think we can get 7 parking lots.
Anyway NEVER sufficient for all the members.

P.S. this request is just for max 2 weeks. we've been talking about this more than the time it needs.

[Clare Greenhalgh]

I thought that the suggestion at the beginning of this discussion was to wait until the container had gone and then bring in the bus.

How long we discuss bringing in the bus has no reflection on how long the project will be.

If you need to do it immediately I suggest you find somewhere else to work on it as the container will be with us for more time.

--

[James Beyer]

"""""THAT'S NOT TRUE !!!

Not every member  has access to the parking area."""""

I'm not sure that you understand the concept of equal opportunities here!

When you donate to the Hackspace fund and become a member (e.g. Monthly rolling donations) one of the things you get is access to the gate code of the yard aka the Parking area..... EVERYONE GETS THAT

You have only listed 5 parking spaces in your most recent plan.

As a friendly suggestion it would be good calm down and stop making untrue statements about people posts.
You will eventually be able to bring your project into the yard for the 2 weeks you allotted for but as said before its a first come first serve system.
The container was here first and you will have to wait until it has been removed.

Consider parking also when its an open day. Its nice not to have a crowded yard.
When parking in a cramped yard accidents are more likely to happen as well.

On the summary of what 'NOKO' said, if you can't be patient and considerate then pay to work on it somewhere else would be your other option.

Please stop having to make members on this post repeat themselves...

-James



 

[fabio pironti]

those are the measurements.

As you can see the container is not squared. its 6.10 x 2.40

On the bus I put 3x10 but is actually 2.55 x 10.5

Iconsidered roughly the cars as 3x2

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[fabio pironti]

which untrue statements are you talking about ?
That was a quotation, I was just considering on that.

As I understood you're talking about equal opportunities, Am I right ?
Equal opportunities on parking ?
What about equal opportunities on realizing projects ?
Perhaps the bus project is not gonna obstruct events or other people's projects.
I've been every day at hackspace recently, I always saw 1 or 2 cars parked and the other 2 that are always there.
I know that this doesn't mean is gonna be always like this but on a recent base is like this.

I thought about a possible solution in case more parking lots are requested:

Every time is needed I can move the bus out and later in the evening getting the bus in back.
I think like this everyone's need is satisfied unless more than the maximum capacity of the yard is requested.
What do you think about ?

[Adrian Godwin]

It's a kind offer, but a bit awkward in practice, and won't help you get the bus finished.

We could probably do with actual numbers for the car park useage, but even on the open day I don't think there were more than about 6 cars (and on a previous open day we didn't allow them in at all), so it seems unlikely that it would be a serious problem for a couple of weeks.

--

[fabio pironti]

6 or 7 cars would fit with the bus. 

While the bus is there I'll be always there.

As already told is not gonna be a problem, if needed to move the bus for the time requested. 

I'll finish a lot before than the container. Just need 10 days max 2 weeks. Waiting other 6 weeks and maybe more is too much, considering that is already more than a month that I'm waiting and that there is enough space to do it all. 

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[Lynz]

Hi Fabio

Thank you for taking the time to put together a to-scale diagram, it really helps to visualise how this could work. I asked a retired planning officer to take a look at the plans, as his specialism was highways (including access and parking).

TL:DR – current plan isn't feasible. Have attached amended diagram showing maximum of 4 car parking spaces.

Detailed:

Having looked it over your proposal wouldn't work as it stands because of the amount of space required in order to park and manoeuvre cars into position. For perpendicular parking a car requires a minimum space of 2.4m x 4.8m. The optimum for modern, wider vehicles is actually 2.7m x 5.5m. At 2mx3m your estimate for the cars is too small. Furthermore the ideal aisle width in order to manoeuvre a car is 6m, although this can be reduced if the spaces are made wider.  This means that spaces marked 8-10 wouldn't work. It would however be possible to fit two parking spaces at 90° to where you proposed the three. I've annotated your diagram to show what I mean.

For longitudinal parking spaces need to be 2.4mx6m, which I have marked in their proposed location. I've also marked out the space for the bus, for which a recommended space for a coach is 4mx14m.

This isn’t meant to be overkill, but just to provide a realistic idea of what can be achieved in the yard. Therefore I think the maximum number of cars you would be able to fit in the space, while allowing drivers to manoeuvre comfortably and space for other members to be able to work in the yard, would be 4.

The question to the hackspace then is whether 4 is a sufficient number of parking bays to have while the bus is being worked on.

[Charles Yarnold]

Its also worth noting that due to 2 car projects being in the yard at the moment there would only be 2 of those 4 spaces available to park in (as a member traveling to the space) if I understand your amended plan correctly Lynz?

--

[Lynz]

Ah, I hadn't realised that. Yes that would reduce the space, as the most logical spot to work on the car projects would be the corner above the hydroponics.

[Adrian Godwin]

Doesn't having the caravan and the shed adjacent to each other make the yard unnecessarily narrow? If the caravan were in a corner it would allow 2-3 more longitudinal spaces.

On Jun 7, 2014 8:05 PM, "Lynz" <lvc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Ah, I hadn't realised that. Yes that would reduce the space, as the most logical spot to work on the car projects would be the corner above the hydroponics.
>

[Lynz]

Moving the caravan to a corner would give more longitudinal parking, but you'd lose the one or two spaces in the corner. At best that's a net gain of one space. Two spaces are still needed for the car projects, so we're currently looking at 2 spaces (3 at best) being available. Is that enough for the space? As the caravan needs to be able to connect to the external power sockets that could limit where it can go anyway (I have no idea how long the power cables they have are!).

We probably need to give allocated parking some serious consideration, but I'll leave that for another thread.

[Ndlovu (aka) Dean]

Parking space # saying we had x or y at or previous space IMHO is not a good way of assessing need the circumstances have changed significantly and I have been in several times with 5-7 cars there and some times none what is normal is debatable but I believe not less than 5 free for use as temp parking should be the standard service to driving members 

My Suggestion would be

Long term projects .... we are not a space for hire but there should be two component to this as the yard space is such a premium

one) would be removal and disposal cost that should be costed up and this should be held by the space as part a of the deposit these quotes should be provide by the project sponsor 

two) should be a non-refundable deposit linked to the completion date i,e they get it back if they complete on time and not if they don't this should be equivalent to what it would cost to hire the equivalent space commercially (I believe if we don't do this we will simply be taken advantage of as a free factory space) 

So what would it cost to tow the bus to a scrap yard and what would a scrap yard charge to scrap a bus

what would a land lord charge to hire space for a bus with shop facilities 

[Warren Rockley]

To put my 2p in.

Plan was to wait until container is gone, container's time has been extended so Fabio wants the bus in now.
I see his point, but my opinion is, wait for the container to go, no more extensions for the container as it's massive and taking up quite a bit of space.

Bus takes up 3 car spaces, if we moved (not that we are going to) the hydroponic area and caravan, I could get 9 cars and the bus in whilst the container is still there but it would require an Italian to park them, perhaps Fabio could help? ;)

TL:DR
Move the container when agreed, put the bus in, learn to park your cars like a European, everyone will get on fine. XOXO

[fabio pironti]

Well I didn't understand exactly but if any help is needed I'm ready to help. 

Just let me know. 

I've been checking in the last weeks to try to inderstand their schedule but I never found somebody doing any works on the container. Maybe I've been unlucky. 

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[Tom Sands]

Hi Fabio,

I see you've brought the bus in without waiting for the container to leave (which was going to be pretty soon), you're now blocking three or four parking spaces, the sunlight to the hydroponics area, and the trailer mast.

On Tuesday, 24 June 2014 22:47:10 UTC+1, fabio pironti wrote:

Well I didn't understand exactly but if any help is needed I'm ready to help. 

Just let me know. 

I've been checking in the last weeks to try to inderstand their schedule but I never found somebody doing any works on the container. Maybe I've been unlucky. 

On Tuesday, 24 June 2014, Warren Rockley <wjro...@gmail.com> wrote:

To put my 2p in.

Plan was to wait until container is gone, container's time has been extended so Fabio wants the bus in now.
I see his point, but my opinion is, wait for the container to go, no more extensions for the container as it's massive and taking up quite a bit of space.

Bus takes up 3 car spaces, if we moved (not that we are going to) the hydroponic area and caravan, I could get 9 cars and the bus in whilst the container is still there but it would require an Italian to park them, perhaps Fabio could help? ;)

TL:DR
Move the container when agreed, put the bus in, learn to park your cars like a European, everyone will get on fine. XOXO

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[Tim Reynolds]

You also apparently worked on it at 3am and slept in it.

Are you trying to break as many rules in 24 hours as possible? If so,
keep going buddy you're doing grand!

I hope it burns down.

On 10/07/14 11:03, Tom Sands wrote:
> Hi Fabio,
>
> I see you've brought the bus in without waiting for the container to
> leave (which was going to be pretty soon), you're now blocking three or
> four parking spaces, the sunlight to the hydroponics area, and the
> trailer mast.
>
> On Tuesday, 24 June 2014 22:47:10 UTC+1, fabio pironti wrote:
>
> Well I didn't understand exactly but if any help is needed I'm ready
> to help.
> Just let me know.
> I've been checking in the last weeks to try to inderstand their
> schedule but I never found somebody doing any works on the
> container. Maybe I've been unlucky.
>
> On Tuesday, 24 June 2014, Warren Rockley <wjro...@gmail.com

> <javascript:>> wrote:
>
> To put my 2p in.
>
> Plan was to wait until container is gone, container's time has
> been extended so Fabio wants the bus in now.
> I see his point, but my opinion is, wait for the container to
> go, no more extensions for the container as it's massive and
> taking up quite a bit of space.
>
> Bus takes up 3 car spaces, if we moved (not that we are going
> to) the hydroponic area and caravan, I could get 9 cars and the
> bus in whilst the container is still there but it would require
> an Italian to park them, perhaps Fabio could help? ;)
>
> TL:DR
> Move the container when agreed, put the bus in, learn to park
> your cars like a European, everyone will get on fine. XOXO
>
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>
>
>
> --
> VjKlat aka Fabio Pironti
>

> www.vjklat.com <http://www.vjklat.com>

>
> just ... google me !!!
>
>

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[fabio pironti]

Hi Tom. It wasn't supposed to get here in london and park the bus in another place to wait for the container that will move tomorrow as Douglas, one of the guys of the container project, told me. Somebody should come and pick it up to hackney wick. 

I had an emergency on the road and I got in London night time very late and that place was closed. I had no other chances. 

Regarding the parkings There are actually 2 cars parked and there are still 3 or 4 available spaces. 

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[Tom Sands]

Alright, can its current position be condiered temporary then? When do you think someone will be about to pick it up?

[fabio pironti]

It is if course a temporary position. As I wrote before it was an emergency. I don't understand Tim wrote like that. Anyway, The container project should move tomorrow. 

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[Richard Patterson]

Cheers for the update Fabio.

I believe people, I included, were worried that this was a surreptitious attempt to get the bus in without challenge.

Thanks for working with the container guys, it's just a shame the projects had to overlap by a couple of days.

-Richard

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