Utterance-level parsing notes

[symuyn]

In lieu of http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/browse_thread/thread/7a24bafde638246e/cec45be51f8bfdcf,
I wrote some notes today while waiting for someone.

https://docs.google.com/document/edit?id=1I6SgPk_X0tf2DvGR_D3klKi0O2KxMQ7W7IKYSpYb74g&hl=en

As xorxes suggested, utterance-level parsing is not simple.

The point of the document is, during editing of a Lojban text in a
hypothetical Lojban text editor, to try to identify when utterance-
level reparsing is necessary and what needs to be reparsed (hopefully
minimal text).

I'm going to keep editing this whenever I feel like working on the
hypothetical Lojban text editor. Do you have any corrections or
comments?

[Jonathan Jones]

sa is really that special?

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mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

[Jorge Llambías]

On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:54 PM, Jonathan Jones <eye...@gmail.com> wrote:
> sa is really that special?

"sa" is the nastiest beast of the grammar, and we are not even sure
what we want it to do exactly (none of the various alternatives that
have been proposed is very satisfactory). So yes, I would say it is
that special.

> On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 8:42 PM, symuyn <rbys...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I wrote some notes today while waiting for someone.
>>
>> https://docs.google.com/document/edit?id=1I6SgPk_X0tf2DvGR_D3klKi0O2KxMQ7W7IKYSpYb74g&hl=en
>>

>> I'm going to keep editing this whenever I feel like working on the
>> hypothetical Lojban text editor. Do you have any corrections or
>> comments?

Yo have some typos there, mainly you have "tu" instead of "to" throughout.
Also it's lo'u...le'u, not lo'u...li'u.

No substantial comment for the moment, except I don't like the use of
"utterance" for "the thing that goes between .i's". I find that
confusing. I would prefer "sentence", even if there are incomplete or
fragmentary sentences allowed as special cases. To me an utterance is
either what someone utters (lo se bacru), which could consist of
several sentences, or some act of uttering (lo nu bacru), but it's not
really directly related to "thing between .i's".

mu'o mi'e xorxes

[symuyn]

On Oct 20, 5:52 am, Jorge Llambías <jjllamb...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:54 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > sa is really that special?
>
> "sa" is the nastiest beast of the grammar, and we are not even sure
> what we want it to do exactly (none of the various alternatives that
> have been proposed is very satisfactory). So yes, I would say it is
> that special.
>

> > On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 8:42 PM, symuyn <rbysam...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> I wrote some notes today while waiting for someone.
>

> >>https://docs.google.com/document/edit?id=1I6SgPk_X0tf2DvGR_D3klKi0O2K...

>
> >> I'm going to keep editing this whenever I feel like working on the
> >> hypothetical Lojban text editor. Do you have any corrections or
> >> comments?
>
> Yo have some typos there, mainly you have "tu" instead of "to" throughout.
> Also it's lo'u...le'u, not lo'u...li'u.
>
> No substantial comment for the moment, except I don't like the use of
> "utterance" for "the thing that goes between .i's". I find that
> confusing. I would prefer "sentence", even if there are incomplete or
> fragmentary sentences allowed as special cases. To me an utterance is
> either what someone utters (lo se bacru), which could consist of
> several sentences, or some act of uttering (lo nu bacru), but it's not
> really directly related to "thing between .i's".
>
> mu'o mi'e xorxes

Thanks for catching those typos. They've all been fixed. I also
finished the preliminary grammar for the initial parsing of documents,
but now the hard part--figuring out what to do when a significant word
is edited in/out--begins. Just {i ja} took a while to get, and I'm not
sure if it's always right. I'll eke out the plan for every significant
word's insertion and deletion over the next few months.

[Lindar]

http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/browse_thread/thread/2096961cbb1722d0
http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/browse_thread/thread/37f8a26fb2021e6d
http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/browse_thread/thread/c4a56713c026027d
http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/browse_thread/thread/1da38375ac6f2222

These threads are entirely relevant to your project. =D

History repeats itself. Maybe you can gain something from reading this?

[symuyn]

Those threads are entirely relevant (to the text editor) and utterly
fascinating. Pity that they're out of order.

The fact that they talked about this in 1999 says quite a lot, both
encouraging and discouraging.

I don't expect to finish this text editor within three years. No, no,
this is just planning, and if someone else beats me, so beat it. It
*would* be revolutionary, though, and that's what is driving me.

On Oct 24, 3:05 pm, Lindar <lindartheb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/browse_thread/thread/2096961cbb...http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/browse_thread/thread/37f8a26fb2...http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/browse_thread/thread/c4a56713c0...http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/browse_thread/thread/1da38375ac...

[Lindar]

I'm glad I could help. If I find any more old threads which are
relevant, I will make sure to post them.

I really do look forward to a Lojban text editor, even if it's just
spell-check and all the menus are in Lojban.
(for the vocabulary, check out the jbofanva group as we have a mess of
discussion and documentation about computer vocabulary)

Maybe release an in-Lojban editor and add the grammar check later?

[Amber Shadow]

This looks really neat. Also, in terms of a text editor with lojban
spellchecking and menu items in lojban... Perhaps some jbopre could
translate OpenOffice.org and provide a dictionary for that. Since it's
already an extremely well built editor.

[Lindar]

> This looks really neat. Also, in terms of a text editor with lojban
> spellchecking and menu items in lojban... Perhaps some jbopre could
> translate OpenOffice.org and provide a dictionary for that. Since it's
> already an extremely well built editor.

As I've always said with translation projects, if you're willing to do
the leg work, I can provide the translations/help. There's an existing
bunch of vocab on jbofanva, and I can create a quick "menu names" list
if you need it. Get the PO files, post what technical vocab you need,
and I'll get that set up.

[Amber Shadow]

Well, I'll try and get a request in to add Lojban to the languages
list. I swear, the same problem with Google... They should all just
let you type in the name of the language you want to use and start
translating immediately. It's really discouraging to have to go
through such a long line of bullshit just to get things in place for
you to get started...
I'll start a new topic so I'm not hijacking this one, when I get
things moving a bit.

[Lindar]

http://groups.google.com/group/jbofanva

Any translation projects can be posted here.