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Okay, you're right about that part. I didn't see that. What I saw was that both have "bi" (8) as the exponent, and in 16.4 the exponent is only 7.
14.2) li cinonoki'oki'o du li bi gei ci The-number three-zero-zero-comma-comma equals the-number eight scientific three. 300,000,000 = 3 × 108
16.4) li cinoki'oki'o du li fu'a biboi ciboi panoboi ge'a gei The-number 30-comma-comma equals the-number (RP!) 8, (3, 10, null-op), exponential-notation. 30,000,000 = 3 × 108
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coi ro do
ni'o uo mi mo'u fanva la snime blabi .i judri fa zoi zoi. www.lojban.org/tiki/la+snime+blabi .zoi .i .a'o cinri gi'e pluka vau da .i mi pu'o ku ge srera sisku gi dragau da'i .i ku'i .e'a ro da xa'o tcidu .i .e'a ko mi jungau lo da'i se srera
ni'o ma ro do se jinvi
ki'e mu'o mi'e la selpa'i
On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 6:12 PM, selpa'i <sel...@gmx.de> wrote:
coi ro do
ni'o uo mi mo'u fanva la snime blabi .i judri fa zoi zoi. www.lojban.org/tiki/la+snime+blabi .zoi .i .a'o cinri gi'e pluka vau da .i mi pu'o ku ge srera sisku gi dragau da'i .i ku'i .e'a ro da xa'o tcidu .i .e'a ko mi jungau lo da'i se srera
ni'o ma ro do se jinvi
ki'e mu'o mi'e la selpa'i
.i mi baza tcidu la'e da'u
.i pamai mi djica lo nu judgau do lo du'u lo lerfu pe lu la snime blabi li'u kakne lo nu se ganzu zo'e lu ba melbi silna li'u
.i remai ji'a ci lo panzi be mi cu se cuntu lo xalbo draci be tu'a syby be'o no'u la'o gy. Uncle Motti and the Seven Dwarfs gy. to la'o net. http://jewishtheatreworkshop.org/ net.
Am 25.06.2012 15:50, schrieb Michael Turniansky:ui je'e .i zo ga'i zo'u: mi no roi birti lo du'u zo ga'i fa'u «lu ga'i nai li'u» mo fa'u mo .i la jbovlaste cu xusra pa da .i je la cukta cu xusra lo drata .i ku'i ie «lu ga'i nai li'u» drani .i ba dragau
i mi puzi co'a rcidu le lisri be fi do .i cinri gi'e jai frili .i pa cmalu te fapro .i le minra cu pilno zo ga'i zo'u va'o lo nu le minra cu sinma le noltruni'u kei lo minra cu bilga lo nu pilno lu ga'inai li'u
Am 25.06.2012 22:25, schrieb Michael Turniansky:
.i ie drani .i mi srera ki'e do'u .i mi xa'o dragau ja'e tu'a «lu mu'i lo nu by tai melbi kei lo kalte cu kecti by gi'e cusku «lu ko bajra doi malsefu'a verba li'u» .i .i'o do mi jungau
On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 12:53 PM, Michael Turniansky <mturn...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 10:13 AM, selpa'i <sel...@gmx.de> wrote:
Am 25.06.2012 15:50, schrieb Michael Turniansky:ui je'e .i zo ga'i zo'u: mi no roi birti lo du'u zo ga'i fa'u «lu ga'i nai li'u» mo fa'u mo .i la jbovlaste cu xusra pa da .i je la cukta cu xusra lo drata .i ku'i ie «lu ga'i nai li'u» drani .i ba dragau
i mi puzi co'a rcidu le lisri be fi do .i cinri gi'e jai frili .i pa cmalu te fapro .i le minra cu pilno zo ga'i zo'u va'o lo nu le minra cu sinma le noltruni'u kei lo minra cu bilga lo nu pilno lu ga'inai li'u
mi na zgana lo du'u bu'u dakau le cukta la jbovlaste na sarxe tu'a lo nu pilno .i pe'u ko jarco fi mi--gejyspa
lo bi'u nabmi zo'u bu'u pa stuzi do citka lo'u za'u ru'e le'u .e nai lo'u za'u re'u le'u .iji'a lo jufra po'u lu mu'i lo nu ny tai melbi kei lo kalte ny kecti gi'e cusku lu ko bajra doi malselfu'a verba li'u li'u cu cfipu mi re da .i pa mai me'o ny sinxa ma .i re mai ni'i lo nu me'o ny cu lidne lu kecti gi'e cusku li'u kei me'o ny sumti fi li re fe la'e zo kecti jo'u ba'e la'e zo cusku .i zo ny bilga lo nu na sumti fi re le remei
"ni'o lo kalte ca lo nu lo xarju panzi cu jbikla cu daktuncatra gi'e lebna lo fepri .e lo livga gi'e bevri fi'o sinxa ku fi lo noltruni'u .i lo jukpa cu .ei silnyjau jukpa xai"
Now, I'm not an expert on the grammar of experimental camvo like "xai", and obviously you intend the referent to be lo fepri jo'u lo livga, but couldn't it also be lo noltruni'u jo'u lo jukpa? Is "xai" like "ra", vague? Or is it like "ri" and strictly referring to the most recent n>2 sumti?
Am 02.07.2012 16:19, schrieb Michael Turniansky:
I use it like "ra" but referring to multiple sumti. I haven't seen this word used much, if at all, so I don't know how other people use it. I do think, however, that (if understood to work like ra) it is apparent that it refers to lung and liver, because the cook is unlikely to cook the queen and himself. :)
"ni'o lo kalte ca lo nu lo xarju panzi cu jbikla cu daktuncatra gi'e lebna lo fepri .e lo livga gi'e bevri fi'o sinxa ku fi lo noltruni'u .i lo jukpa cu .ei silnyjau jukpa xai"
Now, I'm not an expert on the grammar of experimental camvo like "xai", and obviously you intend the referent to be lo fepri jo'u lo livga, but couldn't it also be lo noltruni'u jo'u lo jukpa? Is "xai" like "ra", vague? Or is it like "ri" and strictly referring to the most recent n>2 sumti?
If xai is supposed to refer to the last <1 sumti immediately preceeding it, then another cmavo would be useful to have that behaves the way I used xai in the story (maybe xau). Let's hear what its inventor (Pierre, I believe) thinks about it.
lu .i mu'i bo na djica lo nu xaksu ro da fa ny po'o li'u zo'u mi za'ure'u se cfipu tu'a la'e zo ny
Am 03.07.2012 16:31, schrieb Michael Turniansky:ue .i ki'u ma mi ciska zo ny .i ba'o dragau ki'e do'u
lu .i mu'i bo na djica lo nu xaksu ro da fa ny po'o li'u zo'u mi za'ure'u se cfipu tu'a la'e zo ny
mu'o
Am 03.07.2012 19:18, schrieb Michael Turniansky:.i lo te gusni ca lo nu ca'o te gusni cu cikna .i ca lo drata na cikna .i .au nai pilno zo pe'a .i pe'i na sarcu
On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 11:30 AM, selpa'i <sel...@gmx.de> wrote:
Am 03.07.2012 16:31, schrieb Michael Turniansky:ue .i ki'u ma mi ciska zo ny .i ba'o dragau ki'e do'u
lu .i mu'i bo na djica lo nu xaksu ro da fa ny po'o li'u zo'u mi za'ure'u se cfipu tu'a la'e zo ny
mu'o
lu .i ty cikygau lo ty. cmalu te gusni li'u zo'u xu ba'e lu cikygau pe'a li'u se skudji .i du'o mi lo te gusni cu sipna najenai cikna
Am 03.07.2012 21:02, schrieb Michael Turniansky:
da na gasnu lo nu de te gusni .i sa'e lo te gusni poi na cikna cu to'e ki'u nai te gusni .i pe'i pei lo balji te gusni poi nenri lo do kumfa cu co'u ja de'a ckaji lo ka te gusni kei ca lo nu na cikna .i xu binxo lo te gusni ca ro nu do cikygau .i la'a cumki fa lo nu xusra la'e di'u .i je mi na jinvi lo du'u xlali .i ku'i na tadji lo nu da'i mi ciksi lo si'o ma kau te gusni .i do ma jinvi
On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 1:28 PM, selpa'i <sel...@gmx.de> wrote:
Am 03.07.2012 19:18, schrieb Michael Turniansky:.i lo te gusni ca lo nu ca'o te gusni cu cikna .i ca lo drata na cikna .i .au nai pilno zo pe'a .i pe'i na sarcu
On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 11:30 AM, selpa'i <sel...@gmx.de> wrote:
Am 03.07.2012 16:31, schrieb Michael Turniansky:ue .i ki'u ma mi ciska zo ny .i ba'o dragau ki'e do'u
lu .i mu'i bo na djica lo nu xaksu ro da fa ny po'o li'u zo'u mi za'ure'u se cfipu tu'a la'e zo ny
mu'o
lu .i ty cikygau lo ty. cmalu te gusni li'u zo'u xu ba'e lu cikygau pe'a li'u se skudji .i du'o mi lo te gusni cu sipna najenai cikna
mi bapli nagi'e stidi vau lo nu do pilno pe'a .i sa'u mi pu kucli lo mukti be lo nu do pu na pilno lo cizme'a be fi mi valsi no'u zo gusygau .a zo tergu'igau
Am 12.07.2012 20:43, schrieb Michael Turniansky:Yeah, it should have been {ro de}. Also, I think I accidently wrote setca instead of punji. So the sentence is:
Ok, this one is confusing me, too:
co'a lo nu tolmanku cu viska lo nu da pu zvati lo nenri kei ki'u lo du'u na ku ro da stali lo pu te setca
"As it began to get lighter, it could be seen that someone had been inside, because it wasn't true that everyone of those someones were staying in the former insertion site."
co'a lo nu tolmanku cu viska lo nu da pu zvati lo nenri kei ki'u lo du'u na ku ro de stali lo pu te punji
"Starting when it was bright, they (the seven dwarfs) saw that someone had been inside, because not everything was where it had been put."
.i ke'u ckire fi lo nu srera jungau .i ba'o dragau
mu'o mi'e la selpa'i
Ah, okay, sorry. I wasn't being deliberately dense. I usually try to offer helpful suggestions.I mean, I understood the da->de confusion, but I couldn't figure out what in the world the "te setca" was referring to. Thanks for the explanation. Maybe se ponse (be lo trocrida) instead of de, and/or at least a second sumti place for te setca/punci ("...lo pu te punji be de(/ri, if se ponse is used)")
�"lo torcrida tai gleki se mu'i lo nu cikygau na gi'e sipna stali curmi""lu ta'i ma nerkla lo mi'a zdani �sei lo torcrida cu stali retsku li'u"
� It seems to me that you are trying to use "stali" �in a sense of "to continue to do something". �That's not what it means. �It means to remain with or at someplace ("he remained home", "The smell of grapes linger on his hands") You are probably more interested in the tense "ca'o" or the gismu "ranji".
Am 23.07.2012 15:21, schrieb Michael Turniansky:
"lo torcrida tai gleki se mu'i lo nu cikygau na gi'e sipna stali curmi"
"lu ta'i ma nerkla lo mi'a zdani —sei lo torcrida cu stali retsku li'u"
It seems to me that you are trying to use "stali" in a sense of "to continue to do something". That's not what it means. It means to remain with or at someplace ("he remained home", "The smell of grapes linger on his hands") You are probably more interested in the tense "ca'o" or the gismu "ranji".
I meant stodi.
On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 9:29 AM, selpa'i <sel...@gmx.de> wrote:
Am 23.07.2012 15:21, schrieb Michael Turniansky:
�"lo torcrida tai gleki se mu'i lo nu cikygau na gi'e sipna stali curmi""lu ta'i ma nerkla lo mi'a zdani �sei lo torcrida cu stali retsku li'u"
� It seems to me that you are trying to use "stali" �in a sense of "to continue to do something". �That's not what it means. �It means to remain with or at someplace ("he remained home", "The smell of grapes linger on his hands") You are probably more interested in the tense "ca'o" or the gismu "ranji".
I meant stodi.
� Okay. �
� Next one: �i ku'i lo noltruni'u ba lo nu citka lo fepri .e lo livga vu'o noi ny krici fi ke'a fe lo du'u pagbu la snime blabi cu jinvi lo du'u di'a ku pa moi lo melbi gi'e mlerai�
� Absolutely nothing wrong here, and it's purely a stylistic choice, but just wondering why you didn't use the simpler "....ny krici lo du'u [ke'a] pagbu la snime blabi...", which would have accomplished the same thing, without having to bring in the "fi ke'a", which then necessitated you also adding in the word "fe".
"lu doi ga'i nai noltruni'u do vi mlerai.i ku'i la snime blabi ne ti'a lo cmanazi'e ne bu'u lo ze torcridacu mlemau fo lo pilji be li ki'o"
� How could the queen be at the same time most beautiful and Snow�White�yet more beautiful? �(Well, of course, the answer is dependent on what the se mlerai is. �If we presume it was the same as the queen's question (lo ro se gugde), the Snow White must perforce not be in that set, so she is not a member of that country's peoples. ;-) ) �(Actually, the more accurate response would be "...do vi mlerai da'a lo se go'i....", but I'm not inclined to split hairs (yeah, right!)
Am 23.07.2012 15:48, schrieb Michael Turniansky:
"lu doi ga'i nai noltruni'u do vi mlerai.i ku'i la snime blabi ne ti'a lo cmanazi'e ne bu'u lo ze torcridacu mlemau fo lo pilji be li ki'o"
How could the queen be at the same time most beautiful and Snow White yet more beautiful? (Well, of course, the answer is dependent on what the se mlerai is. If we presume it was the same as the queen's question (lo ro se gugde), the Snow White must perforce not be in that set, so she is not a member of that country's peoples. ;-) ) (Actually, the more accurate response would be "...do vi mlerai da'a lo se go'i....", but I'm not inclined to split hairs (yeah, right!)
.u'i. That would destroy the effect the original has. They are obviously not in the same set. The mirror knows this and says "You are the prettiest of the people around here (implicit), but Snow White exceeds you". The mirror uses two sets because it is necessary to distinguish or else it loses the effect / parallelism to the original.
lo jbogu'e cu jai bu'u ta'e ralci tcila lanli .i mi na se spaji
Am 23.07.2012 16:22, schrieb Michael Turniansky:Okay, but I have the German "original"[1] version from 1905, and it, just like any other ones I've seen, do say that the queen is the most beautiful:
But, actually, I don't think I've ever seen an (English) version of the story where the mirror's response at this point in the story is that the queen is the fairest/prettiest. Usually that she is fair, but Snow is fairer by far. So even those authors recognize the mirror can't use the superlative regarding the queen.
"Frau Königin, ihr seid die Schönste hier,
aber Schneewittchen über den Bergen
bei den sieben Zwergen
ist noch tausendmal schöner als ihr."
"O Queen, you are the most beautiful here,
but Snow White [...]
is yet a thousand times more beatiful than you."
So it does use two sets :P. It might just be a language thing zo'o---
mu'o mi'e la selpa'i
[1] The Grimm Brothers didn't invent the story, they just collected it from people who knew it and then made their own version. Calling one version or another original isn't really possible.
".i ny za'u re'u pensi lo nu ta'i ma kau catra kei mu'i lo nu co'u lo nu ca'a mlerai be ro lo selgu'e cu na surla kakne ri'a lo nu jilra"
(first, I should note that on a grammatical note, genrei doesn't like it without a "boi" or "cu" between "ny" and "re'u" since they otherwise form into a single lerfu string. jboski (online jbofi'e), OTOH, has no problem with it. I"m not sure what the "correct" interpretation is according to the formal grammar)
pensi-2's are normally considered to be ideas, not events, so it should be si'o, not nu, for those who are pedantic about such stuff.
But more importantly, I'm again having trouble getting the proper sense of the sentence. I think you are trying to say that she is once again thinking about how to kill (Snow White) because she is not able to relax because she is no longer the most beautiful in the land, due to her jealousy. Which I guess works, but it's real hard for me to puzzle out the convolutions of the sentence due to the nested modals and tenses
" i tai ku klama fo lo ze cmana fe lo ze torcrida gi'e snadarxi lo vorme gi'e lausku «lu lo xamgu ve pleji cu se friti li'u» "
Pedantry again -- shouldn't that be "...fe _lo zdani be_ lo ze torcrida..."? She didn't go to the dwarves at all.
Am 24.07.2012 17:44, schrieb Michael Turniansky:
".i ny za'u re'u pensi lo nu ta'i ma kau catra kei mu'i lo nu co'u lo nu ca'a mlerai be ro lo selgu'e cu na surla kakne ri'a lo nu jilra"
(first, I should note that on a grammatical note, genrei doesn't like it without a "boi" or "cu" between "ny" and "re'u" since they otherwise form into a single lerfu string. jboski (online jbofi'e), OTOH, has no problem with it. I"m not sure what the "correct" interpretation is according to the formal grammar)
It's missing a cu. As I originally said, I did not proof-read the translation, so typos like this one are expected to show up here and there.
pensi-2's are normally considered to be ideas, not events, so it should be si'o, not nu, for those who are pedantic about such stuff.
You can think about anything. You can think about objects, events, whatever you want. Anything you can hold in your mind can be a pensi2.
But more importantly, I'm again having trouble getting the proper sense of the sentence. I think you are trying to say that she is once again thinking about how to kill (Snow White) because she is not able to relax because she is no longer the most beautiful in the land, due to her jealousy. Which I guess works, but it's real hard for me to puzzle out the convolutions of the sentence due to the nested modals and tenses
It's quite straighforward for me. But I can walk you through it:
.i ny cu za'u re'u pensi lo nu ta'i ma kau catra kei
The queen (ny) again thought about how to kill (her)
mu'i lo nu co'u lo nu ca'a mlerai lo ro selgu'e
because, until she was actually the pretties of all the people in the country,
cu na surla kakne
(she) would not be able to relaxbecause of her envy
ri'a lo nu jilra
I could add some more pro-sumti, but they are obvious enough to me to be elided. I don't like how the na scopes over the ri'a in this sentence, so I'll fix that in the actual text.
Am 24.07.2012 18:09, schrieb Michael Turniansky:
" i tai ku klama fo lo ze cmana fe lo ze torcrida gi'e snadarxi lo vorme gi'e lausku «lu lo xamgu ve pleji cu se friti li'u» "
Pedantry again -- shouldn't that be "...fe _lo zdani be_ lo ze torcrida..."? She didn't go to the dwarves at all.
This was again carried over from the original where it does say that she goes to the seven dwarfs. The point of this is leitmotif. The phrase "across the seven mountains to the seven dwarfs", which rhymes in the original German, appears several times throughout the story. Inserting a "house of" (zdani be lo) would break up this pattern.
Of course, from a nitpicky point of view, you are right, she does not go to the seven dwarfs, she goes to Snow White.
".i ny za'u re'u pensi" is grammatical, even though it doesn't parse
as intended, just like ".i ca pensi", because "ny za'u re'u" is a
tense. If a parser doesn't like it, there is a problem with the
parser.
" ni'o ba na'e zu ku ca lo vanci lo ze torcrida cu xruti lo zdani gi'e mutce lo ka se spaji kei ca lo nu viska lo nu la snime blabi cu cpana lo loldi gi'e na muvdu fi'o selmlu lo ka morsi "It seems like you are trying to say "not long after..." but unfortunately, "ba na'e zu" is not grammatical "ba nai zu" is, but may not mean what we want. I expect you would be better off simply doing "ba za" or "ba zi".
-- pilno zo le xu .i lo dei bangu cu se cmene zo lojbo .e nai zo lejbo
On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 4:59 PM, Michael Turniansky
> As for "...me no na'e bo lo cevycau noltruni'u" That means the tradesperson
> is one of the zero amount of non-"godless queen" I understand you are
> trying to go for "none other than the godless queen", but I don't think you
> can do it that way. You are trying to state someone is a member of a 0
> cardinality set, I believe. I understand you want to get the emphasis
> connoted by the original. I think maybe "lo tolci'o ja'a du lo cevycau
> noltruni'u" would do the same.
"... du no na'e bo lo cevycau noltruni'u" does work though.
ni'o" ku'i ui na ru'e vanci ja'e lo nu ba zi ku lo ze torcrida cu xruti lo zdani"
na modifies the vanci bridi. I don't think that's what you wanted. You probably meant "ui ru'e nai". Judging by the original German, I think you want the non-official "fu'au"
BTW, thanks for using my coinage "ticta'u" That makes the second time it's been used in written context.
Am 30.07.2012 17:46, schrieb Michael Turniansky:
ni'o" ku'i ui na ru'e vanci ja'e lo nu ba zi ku lo ze torcrida cu xruti lo zdani"
na modifies the vanci bridi. I don't think that's what you wanted. You probably meant "ui ru'e nai". Judging by the original German, I think you want the non-official "fu'au"
I did want na to modify the bridi. I know how to use UI NAI. =) I did have to insert an .i though to fix the scope.
" ni'o la snime blabi cu ze'u ze'u cpana lo nenri be lo mrovau gi'e fusra na gi'e ja'a simlu lo ka sipna"
1) "ze'u ze'u" is not recognized by genrei or jobski. If it is in fact not permissible, might I suggest "ba'e ze'u"?
2) You got tripped up here due to the default grouping of multiple logical connectives. This says that she was "not (both lying a long time in the coffin and decaying) but seemed to be sleeping" In other words, she either was not lying a long time in the coffin, or not decaying, or perhaps both. Not what you wanted. Stick a "bo" after the second gi'e to solve that.
Am 03.08.2012 18:13, schrieb Michael Turniansky:
" ni'o la snime blabi cu ze'u ze'u cpana lo nenri be lo mrovau gi'e fusra na gi'e ja'a simlu lo ka sipna"
1) "ze'u ze'u" is not recognized by genrei or jobski. If it is in fact not permissible, might I suggest "ba'e ze'u"?
Any combination of TAGs is fine. Anything else would be madness. Still, I changed it to "ze'u sai".
2) You got tripped up here due to the default grouping of multiple logical connectives. This says that she was "not (both lying a long time in the coffin and decaying) but seemed to be sleeping" In other words, she either was not lying a long time in the coffin, or not decaying, or perhaps both. Not what you wanted. Stick a "bo" after the second gi'e to solve that.
That's one way. I just moved the na in front of fusra instead.
On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 2:17 PM, selpa'i <sel...@gmx.de> wrote:
Am 03.08.2012 18:13, schrieb Michael Turniansky:
" ni'o la snime blabi cu ze'u ze'u cpana lo nenri be lo mrovau gi'e fusra na gi'e ja'a simlu lo ka sipna"
1) "ze'u ze'u" is not recognized by genrei or jobski. If it is in fact not permissible, might I suggest "ba'e ze'u"?
Any combination of TAGs is fine. Anything else would be madness. Still, I changed it to "ze'u sai".
If you want to use it as a tag, then instead of "....cu ze'u ze'u cpana..." use "....ze'u cu ze'u cpana" or "ze'u ku ze'u cpana..." The problem you are encountering is that within the selbri (to the right of the cu) it's NOT a tag, but a subsidiary tense.
2) You got tripped up here due to the default grouping of multiple logical connectives. This says that she was "not (both lying a long time in the coffin and decaying) but seemed to be sleeping" In other words, she either was not lying a long time in the coffin, or not decaying, or perhaps both. Not what you wanted. Stick a "bo" after the second gi'e to solve that.
That's one way. I just moved the na in front of fusra instead.
That works, too. (No comments on my other emails?)
.i je ku'i lo tolci'o cu sutra je tagji srugau ri'a lo nu la snime blabi co'u vasxu kakne =>
.i je ku'i lo tolci'o cu sutra je tagji srugau seri'a lo nu la snime blabi co'u vasxu kakne