Re: Gismu with 100% english bias

[la .lindar.]

I've seen something like this before, but I don't know where the vocab set has gone. The grammar isn't really that hard to learn, so you'd just be adding another step. I suppose if you want to make it yourself you can use the official gloss-word list and replace gismu with English words. Really, the grammar is super simple, so you wouldn't be doing yourself any favours by learning this pseudo-lojban.

The easiest-formatted lessons are linked here: Lessons

I'm also starting a video series based on these lessons if you'd like to check it out on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/LogicalLanguageGroup

If there's something I can do to help, please let me know. If you have specific requests, I would be happy to make a video about it.

[vitci'i]

On 06/25/2012 11:43 PM, hell...@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi everyone, sorry if this question has been asked before, and if so, if
> you could provide a link or two that would be great. I tried looking on
> google, but not quite sure how to search for this..
>
> My question is, is it possible to produce a set of gismu (root words) with
> a 100% bias to english? (perhaps calling the resulting Lojban variant
> "englog" or "englan" or something like that. I tried learning lojban before
> but I just got put off by the foreignness of the words. Perhaps it may be
> that learning the grammar first using english gismu would be much easier
> than just jumping in the deep end. This may give rise to many dialects (the
> chinese may want their variant of lojban having gismu 100% biased to
> chinese), but perhaps this is not a bad thing?

I think that applying lojban grammar to English vocabulary would be
confusing. Let's try it and find out.

i expect the event the event the is-grammar of the-named lojban combine
the is-word of {fi} the-named english-language {kei} confuse.
[suggestion] [imperative] we experiment something-about
previous-sentence with-motive the event we learn.

[gleki]

I have another problem (quite the opposite actually).

What are the gismu with clear English bias (I remember that Loglan/Lojban predicates were based on English semantics)? I mean current Lojban.

(And I wanna try getting rid of them.)

[Jonathan Jones]

I'm sorry, but I can't comprehend what problem you could possibly have with the foreignness of words of a /foreign/ language, and I see no benefit in your question. Having gismu with a full English bias would still have the same grammar they do as is, so there would be no benefit there, and no matter how good you got at this "englog", not only would you still have to learn all the Lojban words, you'd also need to /forget/ the "englog" ones, which would make learning Lojban /more/ difficult, not less.

You don't need to know the words to know the grammar, and you don't need to know the grammar to know the words. You do need both to use the language.

On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 10:43 PM, <hell...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi everyone, sorry if this question has been asked before, and if so, if you could provide a link or two that would be great. I tried looking on google, but not quite sure how to search for this..

My question is, is it possible to produce a set of gismu (root words) with a 100% bias to english? (perhaps calling the resulting Lojban variant "englog" or "englan" or something like that. I tried learning lojban before but I just got put off by the foreignness of the words. Perhaps it may be that learning the grammar first using english gismu would be much easier than just jumping in the deep end. This may give rise to many dialects (the chinese may want their variant of lojban having gismu 100% biased to chinese), but perhaps this is not a bad thing?

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--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

[Bob LeChevalier, President and Founder - LLG]

I did a more thorough analysis of the question back in one of the old
issues of Ju'i Lobypli, in response to a question from University of
Maryland professor James Yorke, and included a variety of examples of
how it might work (or not work, as you conclude). Alas, the current
website search doesn't seem to find things in the old JLs, which are
somewhere on the website, and I am not finding it immediately in my own
copies.

A better example to respond to the questioner might be to take a
paragraph of Lojban text, say from Alice, and simply substitute English
keywords for the gismu, and hyphenated-keywords for the lujvo. It still
doesn't work, but I think it is closer to what is being asked.

> i lu uo sei la alis pensi mi ba lo nu farlu tai ti cu ba na’e xanka le nu farlu
> fo le serti i lu ua virnu sei le lanzu tu’a mi ba jinvi li’u i u’o mi noda cusku
> va’o ji’asai le nu mi farlu fi le drudi be le zdani tosa’a la’e di’u la’a jetnu toi
> li’u

Using English gismu, this becomes:

i lu uo sei la alis thinks mi ba lo nu fall tai ti cu ba na’e nervous le
nu fall fo le stairs i lu ua brave sei le family tu’a mi ba opines li’u
i u’o mi noda express va’o ji’asai le nu mi fall fi le roof be le nest
tosa’a la’e di’u la’a true toi li’u

I think it pretty safe to say that few would find this any easier to
understand than the pure Lojban, even discounting the confusion caused
by Lojban gismu not meaning exactly the same thing as the keywords.

--
Bob LeChevalier loj...@lojban.org www.lojban.org
President and Founder, The Logical Language Group, Inc.