Proposing an alternative Arabic orthography for Lojban

[Muhammad Nael]

I can neither post the .pdf contents here, nor attach it...
So, please head to:
http://goo.gl/z0oRI

[Escape Landsome]

That's pretty nice !

It seems to me you use the orthographic conventions of farsi language,
am I right ?

-- .esk

[Saeid Al-Wazzan]

Hello Muhammad. Thank you for making this!
This orthography is very concise. I think the way you chose to represent {e} and {o} is clever.

I have one comment about the choice of character for {j} and {g}.
{g} is mapped to {ج} and {j} is mapped to {چ}. In Arabic, however, the {j} sound is produced by {ج}, I think it might be more natural to swap the mappings for these two characters.

I'd like to put this on the wiki under the Arabic section, if possible since it could be useful for Arabic speakers who want to get an idea of what lojban sounds like.

Regards,
Saeid

[Muhammad Nael]

Thanks for the positive feedback!
[.esk] It seems to me you use the orthographic conventions of farsi language, am I right ?
Correct. However, the Farsi alphabet contains several other letters that are less common globally, making it more difficult to adopt for non Persians and generally for most Arabic keyboard layouts. Persian KLs on the other hand support all of the glyphs I chose, making it much easier.
---
[Saeid] > This orthography is very concise. I think the way you chose to represent {e} and {o} is clever.
Thanks! The (e, o) mapping was a bit tiresome, I wanted a diacritic that was easy to write, available in most fonts but a the same time I didn't want to violate any rules of existing diacritic marks, the (Maddah) seemed suitable.

> {g} is mapped to {ج} and {j} is mapped to {چ}. In Arabic, however, the {j} sound is produced by {ج}, I think it might be more natural to swap the mappings for these two characters.

In Arabic, the original sound of (ج) is that of [g], pronouncing it as [j] is for stylistic reasons and in specific situations. Mapping (ج) to [j] would leave us with [g] needing a glyph.
If, however, it was me, I'd choose (ش) with a dot below or a small v above, but that wrecks its simplicity.

[Robin Lee Powell]

Please don't do that; they were all in the moderation queue, and now
have all been posted in their identical glory.

Also, you've been set to auto-approve, so it shouldn't happen again.

-Robin

On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 07:25:26AM -0700, Muhammad Nael wrote:
> **This is for the moderators*
> *My messages are stuck for some reason... Up until now, I've 'tried' to post
> 4 identical posts, none was accepted.
>
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--
http://singinst.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot
is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false"
is "na nei". My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/

[Muhammad Nael]

(See the Attachment)
Here, this is the first keyboard layout I make for the proposal; it's still pretty buggy regarding mapping choices... Wait for further updates.
[Saeid] I'd like to put this on the wiki under the Arabic section, if possible since it could be useful for Arabic speakers who want to get an idea of what lojban sounds like.
I would be honoured! However, I'd prefer if you wait a bit more until I finalize it... I'm still a rocky!

[Muhammad Nael]

I might be able to finish this sometime this week. While I'm at it, is there any interest in an Arabic version of Lojban's reference grammar or dictionary? Not like that I'll finish it in days but I'm just checking.

[Saeid Al-Wazzan]

On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 7:53 PM, Muhammad Nael <muhamm...@gmail.com> wrote:

I might be able to finish this sometime this week. While I'm at it, is there any interest in an Arabic version of Lojban's reference grammar or dictionary? Not like that I'll finish it in days but I'm just checking.

 I'm definitely interested in making something like that happen! Let me know if I can be of any help.

With regards to the orthography, I still don't quite understand what you mean with respect to the {j} and {g} sounds. For example, the Standard Arabic word جمل would be pronounced as {jamal} using the lojban {j} sound. The Arabic word uses ج for {j} since it is a naturally occuring sound. That's why I was kind of confused when that character was used to represent {g}. Maybe I'm missing something here?

Either way, I look forward to seeing a finalized version of this!

[rden...@gmail.com]

I personally think that it would be awesome to have at least the gismu gloss in arabic!

Unfortunately I won't be able to read them but I really think we lack more non-English non-Latin-Based language contributions.

Remo

On , Muhammad Nael <muhamm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I might be able to finish this sometime this week. While I'm at it, is there any interest in an Arabic version of Lojban's reference grammar or dictionary? Not like that I'll finish it in days but I'm just checking.
>
>
>
>
>

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> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/F1Dz_HNYPFMJ.

[Jonathan Jones]

As far as I'm concerned, the more languages Lojban training texts are in, the better. Currently, Lojban is a very English-centric language, which means the vast majority, if not the entirety, of the Lojban community is either English native (the language, not the country), such as myself, or has learned English, such as you and .xorxes.

--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

[Muhammad Nael]

I'm running low in network credits, so I'll cut it short and warn you not to expect any immediate responses; I can't help it.
Go here.

[Muhammad Nael]

Second version, keyboard layout included.
Thanks everyone, and sorry for my last post.

Regards,
MN

[Muhammad Nael]

Here's a last try, since the previous ones were omitted.
The zip file here contains the files for my last attempt at a keyboard layout, I used the letter frequency stats posted in 2004 by Robin Powell, as well as some pair matching stats I made my self. The layout uses said stats in conjunction with OJ Bucao's work on his workman layout to make the best layout in my experience.

Tip1: toggling the [Caps Lock] key switches between Roman and Arabic orthographies on the fly for rapid writing of names, e-mails, etc...

Have a nice day,
MN

[MorphemeAddict]

I whole-heartedly agree with Jonathan et al. The more languages that Lojban references are available in, the better. I would even buy a hard copy if it became available.

 

stevo

[Muhammad Nael]

My intention was to translate the absolute basics first (The grammar and Learning guides). But I figured that would appreciate more proficiency in Lojban than what I currently possess; therefor, I began translating the dictionary, which for me appears to require proficiency in English and Arabic, which I can afford easily. I'll try and upload the letter (B) sometime this month, assuming no problems arise.

I'll try replying to the other thread (How it could have been and what it could become), I thought I'll mention it here so as not to bump it now.

[Muhammad Nael]

Here's my pre-final version... I'll post a full-fledged PDF file in a day or two, hopefully with dictionary letter B translation...

[Muhammad Nael]

My last attempt: is in this .pdf file.

I hope for feedback this time.

I'll post the keyboard layout later, I'm on a dial up.

Regards,

MN