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As to the place structures, I'd find the choice of the irregular ones, such as "mitre" and "lanme", interesting.
Really? Because I just find them annoying. (The irregularity, that is.)On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 7:12 PM, Pierre Abbat <ph...@bezitopo.org> wrote:As to the place structures, I'd find the choice of the irregular ones, such as "mitre" and "lanme", interesting.
--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.
.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
doi lojbab mi ckire do .io lo ka ciksi so'a da
As usual this topic is turning into a rant. But that was predictable and unavoidable.
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-- Bob Slaughter, rslau...@WHATmindspring.com http://www.facebook.com/robert.s.slaughter "The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." -- Plato "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." -- Edmund Burke "The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing." -- Albert Einstein |
On Mon, 2013-01-14 at 06:50 -0800, la gleki wrote:
doi lojbab mi ckire do .io lo ka ciksi so'a da
As usual this topic is turning into a rant. But that was predictable and unavoidable.Reading lojbab's email, I find it a detailed and informative look at how the gismu list was started and the initial gismu were formed, including warts. If you consider this a "rant",
then it appears there really isn't much need for me to read any more emails from you. I would be willing to consider otherwise, if you can demonstrate useful work you have contributed. The "lojban berries" is almost the most useless thing I can think of -- *of course* "ckule" looks and sounds like "school" -- it was derived from "school / schule" and the other words from the target languages for *maximum phonetic recognition*.
On Tuesday, January 15, 2013 2:28:01 AM UTC+4, Bob Slaughter wrote:On Mon, 2013-01-14 at 06:50 -0800, la gleki wrote:
doi lojbab mi ckire do .io lo ka ciksi so'a da
As usual this topic is turning into a rant. But that was predictable and unavoidable.Reading lojbab's email, I find it a detailed and informative look at how the gismu list was started and the initial gismu were formed, including warts. If you consider this a "rant",I consider the following messages as "rant".then it appears there really isn't much need for me to read any more emails from you. I would be willing to consider otherwise, if you can demonstrate useful work you have contributed. The "lojban berries" is almost the most useless thing I can think of -- *of course* "ckule" looks and sounds like "school" -- it was derived from "school / schule" and the other words from the target languages for *maximum phonetic recognition*.
This is only one tab of Lojban berries. Look at the other tabs.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/XjZ68ZouJf4J.
To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com.
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On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 9:19 PM, la gleki <gleki.is...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tuesday, January 15, 2013 2:28:01 AM UTC+4, Bob Slaughter wrote:On Mon, 2013-01-14 at 06:50 -0800, la gleki wrote:
doi lojbab mi ckire do .io lo ka ciksi so'a da
As usual this topic is turning into a rant. But that was predictable and unavoidable.Reading lojbab's email, I find it a detailed and informative look at how the gismu list was started and the initial gismu were formed, including warts. If you consider this a "rant",I consider the following messages as "rant".then it appears there really isn't much need for me to read any more emails from you. I would be willing to consider otherwise, if you can demonstrate useful work you have contributed. The "lojban berries" is almost the most useless thing I can think of -- *of course* "ckule" looks and sounds like "school" -- it was derived from "school / schule" and the other words from the target languages for *maximum phonetic recognition*.
This is only one tab of Lojban berries. Look at the other tabs.
Two things:
1) Rants are typically lengthy paragraphs about a particular subject for which the author has strong feelings for, not two sentences about an observation which is accurate and calmly delivered.
2) I've looked at all the tabs, and I share his viewpoint on the uselessness of it. When you wonder why nobody helps you in your endeavors, think back on what he said.
On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 9:19 PM, la gleki <gleki.is...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tuesday, January 15, 2013 2:28:01 AM UTC+4, Bob Slaughter wrote:On Mon, 2013-01-14 at 06:50 -0800, la gleki wrote:
doi lojbab mi ckire do .io lo ka ciksi so'a da
As usual this topic is turning into a rant. But that was predictable and unavoidable.Reading lojbab's email, I find it a detailed and informative look at how the gismu list was started and the initial gismu were formed, including warts. If you consider this a "rant",I consider the following messages as "rant".then it appears there really isn't much need for me to read any more emails from you. I would be willing to consider otherwise, if you can demonstrate useful work you have contributed. The "lojban berries" is almost the most useless thing I can think of -- *of course* "ckule" looks and sounds like "school" -- it was derived from "school / schule" and the other words from the target languages for *maximum phonetic recognition*.
This is only one tab of Lojban berries. Look at the other tabs.
Two things:
1) Rants are typically lengthy paragraphs about a particular subject for which the author has strong feelings for, not two sentences about an observation which is accurate and calmly delivered.
2) I've looked at all the tabs, and I share his viewpoint on the uselessness of it. When you wonder why nobody helps you in your endeavors, think back on what he said.
On Tuesday, January 15, 2013 10:17:17 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote:On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 9:19 PM, la gleki <gleki.is...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tuesday, January 15, 2013 2:28:01 AM UTC+4, Bob Slaughter wrote:On Mon, 2013-01-14 at 06:50 -0800, la gleki wrote:
doi lojbab mi ckire do .io lo ka ciksi so'a da
As usual this topic is turning into a rant. But that was predictable and unavoidable.Reading lojbab's email, I find it a detailed and informative look at how the gismu list was started and the initial gismu were formed, including warts. If you consider this a "rant",I consider the following messages as "rant".then it appears there really isn't much need for me to read any more emails from you. I would be willing to consider otherwise, if you can demonstrate useful work you have contributed. The "lojban berries" is almost the most useless thing I can think of -- *of course* "ckule" looks and sounds like "school" -- it was derived from "school / schule" and the other words from the target languages for *maximum phonetic recognition*.
This is only one tab of Lojban berries. Look at the other tabs.
Two things:
1) Rants are typically lengthy paragraphs about a particular subject for which the author has strong feelings for, not two sentences about an observation which is accurate and calmly delivered.
2) I've looked at all the tabs, and I share his viewpoint on the uselessness of it. When you wonder why nobody helps you in your endeavors, think back on what he said.It's just a continuation of Lojban Functional List.If no one wants to fill gaps in lojbanic lexicon, even in computer terminology, well then no fluent speakers will appear soon. Otherwise how can we discuss anything on the internet?
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/cYAnnv-erOkJ.
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On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 12:27 AM, la gleki <gleki.is...@gmail.com> wrote:On Tuesday, January 15, 2013 10:17:17 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote:On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 9:19 PM, la gleki <gleki.is...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tuesday, January 15, 2013 2:28:01 AM UTC+4, Bob Slaughter wrote:On Mon, 2013-01-14 at 06:50 -0800, la gleki wrote:
doi lojbab mi ckire do .io lo ka ciksi so'a da
As usual this topic is turning into a rant. But that was predictable and unavoidable.Reading lojbab's email, I find it a detailed and informative look at how the gismu list was started and the initial gismu were formed, including warts. If you consider this a "rant",I consider the following messages as "rant".then it appears there really isn't much need for me to read any more emails from you. I would be willing to consider otherwise, if you can demonstrate useful work you have contributed. The "lojban berries" is almost the most useless thing I can think of -- *of course* "ckule" looks and sounds like "school" -- it was derived from "school / schule" and the other words from the target languages for *maximum phonetic recognition*.
This is only one tab of Lojban berries. Look at the other tabs.
Two things:
1) Rants are typically lengthy paragraphs about a particular subject for which the author has strong feelings for, not two sentences about an observation which is accurate and calmly delivered.
2) I've looked at all the tabs, and I share his viewpoint on the uselessness of it. When you wonder why nobody helps you in your endeavors, think back on what he said.It's just a continuation of Lojban Functional List.If no one wants to fill gaps in lojbanic lexicon, even in computer terminology, well then no fluent speakers will appear soon. Otherwise how can we discuss anything on the internet?
A languages lexicon has little to nothing to do with a person's fluency, and we /currently/ have fluent speakers (granted not many, but that's neither here nor there). As far as my assessment of your lists as useless: there are two places where jbopre look when they want to know the Lojban word: vlasisku and jbovlaste. If it doesn't exist there, they either make one up, ask jbocertu to make one up for them, or use a different word that does exist.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/2JLsL3MmUIIJ.
Although you can be fluent with a restricted vocabulary, you're not a master of that language before you can speak of all kind of things without long metaphors or on-the-spot lujvo/fu'ivla no one else ever heard of before (in my opinion).I've been trying to translate parts of Ubuntu Linux to lojban, and for that you need a lot of specific computer terms.
> It's just a continuation of Lojban Functional List.
Whatever that is.
> If no one wants to fill gaps in lojbanic lexicon, even in computer
> terminology, well then no fluent speakers will appear soon. Otherwise
> how can we discuss anything on the internet?
If someone wants to fill gaps, then they will coin words for those gaps
and add them to jbovlaste or some other repository of Lojban coinings.
If they've done it well, then others are likely to use their coinings
rather than making their own coinage.
if e.g. "log in" is {co'a se jaspu} and "log out" {co'u pilno lo jaspu} then there is something wrong.
la gleki wrote:
> jbovlaste is fine. The main problem with e.g. computer terminology is
> that there should be one style while creating those terms.
Why?
There are no stylistic rules for Lojban.
> if e.g. "log in" is {co'a se jaspu} and "log out" {co'u pilno lo jaspu}
> then there is something wrong.
not necessarily.
It merely means that whoever conceived the two words/expressions (which
may or may not have been the same person) did not happen to conceive of
their relationship in the systematic dichotomy that is implied by those
two English phrases.
I note that alternative English phrases "log on" and "log off" are also
used, and I have no doubt that there are people who "log in" and "log
off", while still others "gain access" and "log off".
> jbovlaste will turn into a mess.
Language semantics is messy, in this sense, so we would expect any
dictionary to be a mess.
> When we decide on the only style for most computer terms then
... people will ignore that style.
In particular, >I< will ignore that style. One of the few things I
still actively do with Lojban is to think of alternative ways to say
things, not seeking the ONE TRUE WAY, but simply a different way.
And there is no plan for byfy to decide stylistics, and no one else has
the authority to decide anything about the language design, so "we" will
not decide on "the only style".
It was never intended that there be only one formally approved term for
a given semantic concept.
If technical people in one field or project
want to pragmatically restrict themselves to a jargon subset of the
language vocabulary for purposes of rigor, that is their choice, but the
rest of us will not be so-limited.
> we'll add themand any spreadsheet temporary lists will be removed.
I have no idea how the concept "spreadsheet temporary lists" fits jbovlaste.
ANYONE can add words to jbovlaste, so far as I know. And they need not
follow any particular style.
> Note that the wiki has plenty of pages with proposals for such terms
> (not only computer terms).
> Nobody developed them.
??? Pages don't just appear out of thin cyberspace. Someone had to
write them.
> And still nobody complained that those pages existed.
I am sure that someone somewhere has complained about them. EVERYTHING
gets complained about at some point. zo'o
But I have no problem with them.
> If there is really strong rejection of spreadsheet lists and nobody
> gonna add such terms into jbovlaste (I really don't know how
I don't know how to use jbovlaste either, or any other online Lojban
tool. I don't think in terms of online tools, and forever procrastinate
on learning to use them. (If I used a cell phone, which I don't, I
likely wouldn't use apps either).