How to say "I see someone talking to you"? Is "be–bei–be'o" construction good for that?
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r.d.go...@gmail.com
Jan 8, 2017, 8:45:55 AM1/8/17
to Lojban Beginners
Hi everyone,
I would like to say the following: "I see someone talking to you."
As far as I understand, ".i mi viska le tavla" means "I see a talker" or, in other words, "I see someone talking". But I want to say a bit more. I want to specify that talking is "to you". So, I guess I need to use the "be–bei–be'o" construction and I am not sure about that since here https://lojban.github.io/cll/5/7/ this construction is used to "extend" one of the gismu from a tanru and I want to extend a sumti.
In general I want to be able to say things like: (1) "I see a man reading a book", (2) "The man knows a dog walking from home". Is "be–bei–be'o" gives a way to say these sentences or I need to use something else?
Thank you,
Roman
solpahi
Jan 8, 2017, 9:09:24 AM1/8/17
to lojban-b...@googlegroups.com
On 07.01.2017 20:58, r.d.go...@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi everyone,
coi
> I would like to say the following: "I see someone talking to you."
>
> As far as I understand, ".i mi viska le tavla" means "I see a talker"
> or, in other words, "I see someone talking".
The meaning is closer to "I see the talker(s)", "I see the one(s) who
talk(s)".
This may seem to imply that you see someone talking, but it actually
does not. It is possible to see a person who is talking and not see that
they are talking. In general, {viska lo broda} does not entail {viska lo
nu broda}. It is the latter, however, that properly expresses your meaning.
mi viska lo nu su'o da tavla do
I see the event-of some X talks-to you
"I see that someone is talking to you."
(btw, {le tavla} for "someone who talks" is slightly off. Instead, {su'o
tavla} is more appropriate as it literally means "someone who talks"
(one or more things). In the current case, neither is correct, of
course, but I felt it was worth pointing out)
> But I want to say a bit
> more. I want to specify that talking is "to you". So, I guess I need to
> use the "be–bei–be'o" construction and I am not sure about that since
> here https://lojban.github.io/cll/5/7/ this construction is used to
> "extend" one of the gismu from a tanru and I want to extend a sumti.
>
> In general I want to be able to say things like: (1) "I see a man
> reading a book", (2) "The man knows a dog walking from home". Is
> "be–bei–be'o" gives a way to say these sentences or I need to use
> something else?
You can use {be} to inject (or "extend") into a selbri additional sumti
that then become part of the place structure of the newly created selbri.
tavla : x1 talks to x2 about x3 ...
tavla be do : x1 talks to you about x2 ...
Thus, {lo tavla be do} is an expression that refers to a thing or things
who talk to you.
The other sentences you mention would require relative clause, though,
because they contain an additional verb (selbri), namely "reading" and
"walking". Relative clauses are constructed with {poi} (or {noi}):
mi viska pa prenu poi ke'a tcidu pa cukta
I see a person who [the-person] reads a book
"I see a person who reads a book."
Again this does not mean you see them reading a book, only that you see
the person. You may know about them reading a book from other sources,
so if you wanted to express that you see them reading a book, you would say:
mi viska lo nu pa prenu cu tcidu pa cukta
I see the event-of a person [predicate] read a book
"I see someone reading a book."
~~~mi'e la solpa'i
---
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> Hi everyone,
coi
> I would like to say the following: "I see someone talking to you."
>
> As far as I understand, ".i mi viska le tavla" means "I see a talker"
> or, in other words, "I see someone talking".
talk(s)".
This may seem to imply that you see someone talking, but it actually
does not. It is possible to see a person who is talking and not see that
they are talking. In general, {viska lo broda} does not entail {viska lo
nu broda}. It is the latter, however, that properly expresses your meaning.
mi viska lo nu su'o da tavla do
I see the event-of some X talks-to you
"I see that someone is talking to you."
(btw, {le tavla} for "someone who talks" is slightly off. Instead, {su'o
tavla} is more appropriate as it literally means "someone who talks"
(one or more things). In the current case, neither is correct, of
course, but I felt it was worth pointing out)
> But I want to say a bit
> more. I want to specify that talking is "to you". So, I guess I need to
> use the "be–bei–be'o" construction and I am not sure about that since
> here https://lojban.github.io/cll/5/7/ this construction is used to
> "extend" one of the gismu from a tanru and I want to extend a sumti.
>
> In general I want to be able to say things like: (1) "I see a man
> reading a book", (2) "The man knows a dog walking from home". Is
> "be–bei–be'o" gives a way to say these sentences or I need to use
> something else?
that then become part of the place structure of the newly created selbri.
tavla : x1 talks to x2 about x3 ...
tavla be do : x1 talks to you about x2 ...
Thus, {lo tavla be do} is an expression that refers to a thing or things
who talk to you.
The other sentences you mention would require relative clause, though,
because they contain an additional verb (selbri), namely "reading" and
"walking". Relative clauses are constructed with {poi} (or {noi}):
mi viska pa prenu poi ke'a tcidu pa cukta
I see a person who [the-person] reads a book
"I see a person who reads a book."
Again this does not mean you see them reading a book, only that you see
the person. You may know about them reading a book from other sources,
so if you wanted to express that you see them reading a book, you would say:
mi viska lo nu pa prenu cu tcidu pa cukta
I see the event-of a person [predicate] read a book
"I see someone reading a book."
~~~mi'e la solpa'i
---
Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Michael Turniansky
Jan 8, 2017, 9:43:58 AM1/8/17
to lojban-b...@googlegroups.com, selpa'i
ca ma do binxo la solpa'i enai la selpa'i ? xu do ba'o jinvi lo du'u da prami do?
---gejyspa
selpahi
Jan 9, 2017, 2:34:32 PM1/9/17
to lojban-b...@googlegroups.com
On 08.01.2017 15:43, Michael Turniansky wrote:
> ca ma do binxo la solpa'i enai la selpa'i ? xu do ba'o jinvi lo du'u
> da prami do?
zo solpa'i zo selpa'i pu za lo nanca be li ji'i pa cu basti lo ka cmene
> ca ma do binxo la solpa'i enai la selpa'i ? xu do ba'o jinvi lo du'u
> da prami do?
mi gi'e se zmanei mi .i zo selpa'i zo'u na ku lo nu jinvi lo du'u su'o
da prami mi cu pu mukti lo nu mi cmedu'a zo selpa'i mi .i ra'u mi pu
nelci lo sance .i zo solpa'i jibni zo selpa'i lo ka sance melbi kei gi'e
ku'i zmadu zo selpa'i lo ka mapti mi
la .alEksolas.
Jan 10, 2017, 4:40:09 AM1/10/17
to Lojban Beginners
pu krici lo du'u lo nu le mi pu zu piksku do xajmi cu mukti
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