Units and Descriptions

[Felipe Gonçalves Assis]

Hi,

I am feeling a bit confused about the place structure of gismu for units,
such as {mitre}, {cacra}, etc.

I used to fill their x2 with a number, like {li papimu}, "1.5". However, reading
the simplified gismu list, I see, e.g.,
"
[lo se mitre] a number of metres
"

Does that imply that {lo se mitre} refers to something like "1.5m"? Or
is it really
just a plain number? For example, can I say things like
{ko'a mitre li papimu}
{ko'e cacra li papimu},
and, in that case, can I use {lo se mitre} and {lo se cacra} to mean
{li papimu}?
For instance, would the following make sense?
{lo se mitre cu namcu}
{lo se mitre cu mintu li papimu}
{lo se mitre cu mintu lo se cacra}
{ko'a mitre lo se cacra be ko'e}

[Pierre Abbat]

mi mitre li papimu .i lo nunctuca cu cacra li papimu .i mi se mitre lo se
cacre be lo nunctuca

I have no problem with x2 of the unit words. What puzzles me is the subunit
places.

mu'omi'e .pier.
--
.i toljundi do .ibabo mi'afra tu'a do
.ibabo damba do .ibabo do jinga
.icu'u la ma'atman.

[Jonathan Jones]

On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 1:52 PM, Felipe Gonçalves Assis <felipe...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

I am feeling a bit confused about the place structure of gismu for units,
such as {mitre}, {cacra}, etc.

I used to fill their x2 with a number, like {li papimu}, "1.5". However, reading
the simplified gismu list, I see, e.g.,
"
[lo se mitre]   a number of metres
"

Does that imply that {lo se mitre} refers to something like "1.5m"? Or
is it really
just a plain number? For example, can I say things like
 {ko'a mitre li papimu}
 {ko'e cacra li papimu},
and, in that case, can I use {lo se mitre} and {lo se cacra} to mean
{li papimu}?
For instance, would the following make sense?
 {lo se mitre cu namcu}

la'e lo se mitre cu namcu .i lo se mitre cu klani lo namcu losi'o gradu lo gugykruca loka clani
 

 {lo se mitre cu mintu li papimu}
 {lo se mitre cu mintu lo se cacra}
 {ko'a mitre lo se cacra be ko'e}

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--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

[Jonathan Jones]

On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 2:12 PM, Pierre Abbat <ph...@phma.optus.nu> wrote:

<snip>

I have no problem with x2 of the unit words. What puzzles me is the subunit
places.

mu'omi'e .pier.
--
.i toljundi do .ibabo mi'afra tu'a do
.ibabo damba do .ibabo do jinga
.icu'u la ma'atman.

Sub-units are a bit weird, granted, but depending on which thing we're talking about, I can make a reasonable guess:

zo'oi.Feet. te gutci fo zo'oi.Inches.

Interestingly, {la.intces.} doesn't parse, but I don't know why.

[Ian Johnson]

Analogous to the ndj rule, I think.

mu'o mi'e latros

[Jonathan Jones]

Possibly. After some experimenting, I found that "la.in,tces." also doesn't parse, although {la.inces.} and {la.in.tces.} do.

[Felipe Gonçalves Assis]

So, I got

On 9 March 2012 18:12, Pierre Abbat <ph...@phma.optus.nu> wrote:
> mi mitre li papimu .i lo nunctuca cu cacra li papimu .i mi se mitre lo se
> cacre be lo nunctuca
>

vs.

On 10 March 2012 17:43, Jonathan Jones <eye...@gmail.com> wrote:
> la'e lo se mitre cu namcu .i lo se mitre cu klani lo namcu losi'o gradu lo
> gugykruca loka clani
>

The first one suggests that lo se mitre and lo se cacra are plain numbers,
while the second states that lo se mitre is something more complicated
which refers to a number.

pier and aionys, could you please answer yes or no to whether each of the
example sentences given by me or each other makes sense?

mu'o
mi'e .asiz.

[Jonathan Jones]

On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 4:20 PM, Felipe Gonçalves Assis <felipe...@gmail.com> wrote:

So, I got

On 9 March 2012 18:12, Pierre Abbat <ph...@phma.optus.nu> wrote:
> mi mitre li papimu .i lo nunctuca cu cacra li papimu .i mi se mitre lo se
> cacre be lo nunctuca
>

vs.

On 10 March 2012 17:43, Jonathan Jones <eye...@gmail.com> wrote:
> la'e lo se mitre cu namcu .i lo se mitre cu klani lo namcu losi'o gradu lo
> gugykruca loka clani
>

The first one suggests that lo se mitre and lo se cacra are plain numbers,
while the second states that lo se mitre is something more complicated
which refers to a number.

No they don't. The first one says that "I am 5 meters long. An event of teaching is 5 hours long. I am a-number-of-meters-measuring something-measured-in-hours which-is an-event-of teaching."

The second one says "The referent of something-that-is-measured-in-meters is a-number. Something-measured-in-meters is a-quantity measured-by a-number in-scale the-idea-of a unit of-standard the-international in-scale the-property-of being long".

The two are wholly unrelated statements.
 

pier and aionys, could you please answer yes or no to whether each of the
example sentences given by me or each other makes sense?

mu'o
mi'e .asiz.

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[Felipe Gonçalves Assis]

Can someone please answer which of the following sentences make sense
and which don't?
1. {ko'a mitre li papimu}
2. {li papimu namcu}
3. {lo se mitre cu namcu}
4. {ko'a mitre lo se cacra be ko'e}
5. {la'e lo se mitre cu namcu}

mu'o
mi'e .asiz.

[Lindar]

Can someone please answer which of the following sentences make sense
and which don't?

Sure.

 

  1. {ko'a mitre li papimu}

Makes sense. X is 1.5 metres.

 

  2. {li papimu namcu}

1.5 is a number.

 

  3. {lo se mitre cu namcu}

A number quantifying the length of an object in metres is a number.

 

  4. {ko'a mitre lo se cacra be ko'e}

X is as many metres long as Y is hours long.

 

  5. {la'e lo se mitre cu namcu}

The referent of the number quantifying the length of something in metres is a number.

(This is a false statement AFAIC.)

Everything except this last one makes sense to me.

[Michael Turniansky]

  Not necessarily.  For example, you could have a series of numbered doors, behind each of which is a (non-related) quantity of eggs.  You could refer to the number of the door to obliquely refer to the number of eggs behind it.  And therefore use the length of something to specify that door number.  Could be done, but yeah, contrived.

          --gejyspa

 

[Felipe Gonçalves Assis]

ki'e .lindar.
ki'e gejyspa

That clarified a lot.

mu'o mi'e .asiz.