One Ring inscription translation.

[Chris Patrick]

Hi everyone! I'm rather the nintadni, and I was attempting to translate a few random snippets of text into lojban for practice. I was translating the One Ring inscription, and this is what I came up with.

(the One Ring inscription in Black Speech)

Ash nazg durbatulûk,                  [ash]: one [nazg]: finger ring [durb-] constrain; force; dominate [-at] participle [ul] them [ulûk] completive form of 'them'
ash nazg gimbatul,                     [gimb-]: seek out; discover
ash nazg thrakatulûk                  [thrak-]: bring by force; drag; to compel (something or someone) to go
agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.           [agh]: and [burzum]: darkness [ishi]: in; inside [krimp-]: bind;  tie

Translated:
pa lo degja'i ku minde ro ri
.i pa lo degja'i ku facki ri
.i pa lo degja'i ku klami'e ri
.i ri jongau ra ne'i lo xekri

As I hope you're able to tell, I tried to keep the metre of the original. The main questions I had when translating:
- {manku} doesn't rhyme with "ri", so I used {xekri}. Does {lo xekri} mean "the blackness"? Is there a word with similar meaning to {manku} that I could use and still have the line rhyme?
- I couldn't find a gismu for "retrive", in line 3. Would {bevri} have worked there? Or is it fine the way I did it?

Any relevant advice or corrections would be much appreciated.

[.arpis.]

{lo xekri} means "The black/dark thing". If you want "The blackness",
you need to use a {ka} abstraction (hinted by the "-ness" suffix),
e.g. {lo ka xekri} or {lo kamxekri} or {lo kamxe'i}.

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mu'o mi'e .arpis.

[ianek]

I wouldn't say that {ri} rhymes with {xekri}, bacause {xekri} implies a feminine rhyme and {facki ri}, {klami'e ri} both force a masculine rhyme.

And also, I doubt that {ri} may refer to more objects than the last sumti. So {ro ri} in the first line would be "all of the one ring".

Yes, translating pronouns to Lojban is hard.

mu'o mi'e ianek

[Jonathan Jones]

What the hell is a "feminine" rhyme?

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mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

[ianek]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminine_rhyme

"A feminine rhyme is a rhyme that matches two or more syllables, usually at the end of respective lines, in which the final syllable or syllables are unstressed."

"Feminine rhyme is relatively rare in English poetry and usually appears as a special effect." - that may be why you're not familiar with it. In Polish poetry (the one I've grown up with) it's much more common than masculine, due to penultimate stress in most words, like in Lojban.

mu'o mi'e ianek

On Wednesday, March 28, 2012 8:19:36 PM UTC+2, aionys wrote:

What the hell is a "feminine" rhyme?

On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 9:31 AM, ianek wrote:

I wouldn't say that {ri} rhymes with {xekri}, bacause {xekri} implies a feminine rhyme and {facki ri}, {klami'e ri} both force a masculine rhyme.

And also, I doubt that {ri} may refer to more objects than the last sumti. So {ro ri} in the first line would be "all of the one ring".

Yes, translating pronouns to Lojban is hard.

mu'o mi'e ianek

On Wednesday, March 28, 2012 4:08:25 PM UTC+2, fraik. wrote:

Hi everyone! I'm rather the nintadni, and I was attempting to translate a few random snippets of text into lojban for practice. I was translating the One Ring inscription, and this is what I came up with.

(the One Ring inscription in Black Speech)

Ash nazg durbatulûk,                  [ash]: one [nazg]: finger ring [durb-] constrain; force; dominate [-at] participle [ul] them [ulûk] completive form of 'them'
ash nazg gimbatul,                     [gimb-]: seek out; discover
ash nazg thrakatulûk                  [thrak-]: bring by force; drag; to compel (something or someone) to go
agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.           [agh]: and [burzum]: darkness [ishi]: in; inside [krimp-]: bind;  tie

Translated:
pa lo degja'i ku minde ro ri
.i pa lo degja'i ku facki ri
.i pa lo degja'i ku klami'e ri
.i ri jongau ra ne'i lo xekri

As I hope you're able to tell, I tried to keep the metre of the original. The main questions I had when translating:
- {manku} doesn't rhyme with "ri", so I used {xekri}. Does {lo xekri} mean "the blackness"? Is there a word with similar meaning to {manku} that I could use and still have the line rhyme?
- I couldn't find a gismu for "retrive", in line 3. Would {bevri} have worked there? Or is it fine the way I did it?

Any relevant advice or corrections would be much appreciated.

--

[Pierre Abbat]

On Wednesday, March 28, 2012 10:08:25 Chris Patrick wrote:
> Hi everyone! I'm rather the nintadni, and I was attempting to translate a
> few random snippets of text into lojban for practice. I was translating the
> One Ring inscription, and this is what I came up with.
>
> (the One Ring inscription in Black Speech)
>

> Ash nazg durbatul�k, [ash]: one [nazg]: finger ring
> [durb-] constrain; force; dominate [-at] participle [ul] them [ul�k]

> completive form of 'them'
> ash nazg gimbatul, [gimb-]: seek out; discover

> ash nazg thrakatul�k [thrak-]: bring by force; drag; to

> compel (something or someone) to go
> agh burzum-ishi krimpatul. [agh]: and [burzum]: darkness [ishi]:
> in; inside [krimp-]: bind; tie
>
> Translated:
> pa lo degja'i ku minde ro ri
> .i pa lo degja'i ku facki ri
> .i pa lo degja'i ku klami'e ri
> .i ri jongau ra ne'i lo xekri
>
> As I hope you're able to tell, I tried to keep the metre of the original.

The natural rhythm of English is iambic (although there is much variation and
the first three feet of this sentence are amphibrachyes); that of Lojban is
amphibrachic. I don't know what the natural rhythm of Black Speech is.

> The main questions I had when translating:
> - {manku} doesn't rhyme with "ri", so I used {xekri}. Does {lo xekri} mean
> "the blackness"? Is there a word with similar meaning to {manku} that I
> could use and still have the line rhyme?

I generally don't try to rhyme when composing or translating poetry in Lojban,
though if sensible words rhyme, it's fine with me. I'd say "manku" or "ka
manku".

> - I couldn't find a gismu for "retrive", in line 3. Would {bevri} have
> worked there? Or is it fine the way I did it?

How about "cpacu" or "jajgau"?

> Any relevant advice or corrections would be much appreciated.

I'd translate the first verb by "bapli".

Either "degja'i" or "djine" would describe the One Ring. The others, IIRR they
have jewels on one side, so they aren't djine.

"pa lo degja'i" repeated three times sounds to me like there are three rings.

How about this?
.i le pa degja'i ku bapli ro zo'e
.i le pa degja'i ku facki
.i le pa degja'i ku jajgau ro zo'e
.i ne'i lo manku ku lasna
(I tried "gi'e kai lo manku" but got a syntax error.)

If I remember right, the Tengwar inscription uses two different letters for
"r". Does that mean that Black Speech has two rhotics?

Pierre
--
Don't buy a French car in Holland. It may be a citroen.

[Lindar]

"pa lo degja'i" repeated three times sounds to me like there are three rings.

How about this?
.i le pa degja'i ku bapli ro zo'e
.i le pa degja'i ku facki
.i le pa degja'i ku jajgau ro zo'e
.i ne'i lo manku ku lasna

Doesn't work. "Some number of one ring." means that you're only talking about one ring... so what is it binding, ruling, etc? It was fine before.

 

If I remember right, the Tengwar inscription uses two different letters for
"r". Does that mean that Black Speech has two rhotics?

Quenya does, so maybe? French and tap, I think? 

[iesk]

On Mar 29, 3:30 am, Pierre Abbat <p...@phma.optus.nu> wrote:
> Either "degja'i" or "djine" would describe the One Ring. The others, IIRR they
> have jewels on one side, so they aren't djine.

Sorry for the OT comment, but does that mean that a cat with an
earring is no {mlatu}? And that this ‹http://upload.wikimedia.org/
wikipedia/commons/3/36/Globus.jpg› is no {bolci}?

-iesk