Listen to #114 — Politics and Sanity in Podcasts

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Jaco Strauss

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Feb 13, 2018, 3:28:58 PM2/13/18

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Thanks for engaging around this fascinating topic @Leon.

I am also truly flabbergasted about all this, but generally find it hard to get any of the Never Trumpers to engage with any substance. They normally have a few soundbites and CNN talking points, but seldom more. One Hillary supporter actually asked me how I could - "as a father of daughters" - support Trump!? He also had a teenager daughter so I enquired where he would rather let her spend the weekend, the Trumps or the Clintons? Unfortunately he ran away from the discussion before I could even bring up the Lolita Express...

It's intrigued me from the start that otherwise sensible people aren't offended by Trump's pathological lies and disdain for *nearly" everything libertarian and conservative.

Could it be that you confuse hyperbole with lying? Please provide a few example where his "lies" are more "pathological" than the average politician so that we can discuss actual examples on a case by case basis. Also please explain how Hillary, in comparison, could be seen as any less of a "pathological liar".

Please also explain Trump's supposed "disdain" for "nearly everything libertarian and conservative"? He is cutting regulations and red tape as well as taxes. He is also pretty libertarian on social issues. The budget is indeed terrible, but that is primarily the doing of the two-party duopoly in the House and not the work of the President.

For me he's so obviously an obnoxious megalomaniacal bigoted anti-rule of law illiterate narcissistic buffoon

This over the top name-calling is not very helpful and sadly about as much substance as the Never Trumpers normally conjure. Perhaps we can agree to one adjective each? I am happy with "Crooked Hillary" even though she is so obviously a crooked, obnoxious, sexist, race baiting, corrupt, megalomaniacal, bigoted, anti-rule of law, narcissistic, murderous bitch!

So let's cut the flattery and concentrate on the beef instead:

You call the wall "demented", but a wall is merely one physical manifestation of a border. Mexico already has a physical "wall" (on its other border), as do Hungary, Israel, the Vatican and countless others - even Gibraltar. Not to mention South Africa. Using a "Wall" as an optical rallying cry in an election where millions of voters were fed up of empty politician promises on "border security" was a stroke of genius and probably one of the biggest reasons for his victory.... Whichever way you look at it, it was certainly not "demented".

I would like what you think of the Mueller Investigation, the FBI spying on the Trump team during and after the election as well as the entrapment of Flynn. It would also be interesting to hear your views on the MSM collusion with the Hillary campaign, their subsequent 90% anti-Trump bias as well as their refusal STILL to print anything negative regarding the excesses of the Obama administration....

J

Regards / Groete / Salutations

Jaco Strauss

jkop...@forbes.com

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Feb 14, 2018, 4:01:10 PM2/14/18

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I would agree with Jaco's points here. The never-Trumpers need to be much more skeptical of what they see on CNN. Good point about Trump's "lying." It's vastly overblown. In many ways he's been the most honest, transparent and upfront president we've had in years. He brags, he exaggerates, he's over the top. But he rarely if ever lies, at least about anything important. The media are obsessed with his "lies" and they often run lists -- 'Trump's 2,000 biggest lies,' etc. But glancing through the lists show how silly they are. They're always things like -- says he was on the cover of Time magazine 15 times since 1978 but Time confirms it was only 12 times.

And I agree the name-calling is dumb, and usually inaccurate. Of your list, @Leon, the opposite is closer to the truth with most of them. But he can be obnoxious and, as with virtually all American presidents, you could say he's narcissistic, but not nearly as much as Obama and Clinton. If Trump was as narcissistic as them he wouldn't have waited until age 70 to get into politics.

Anyway, you could easily argue that he's the most libertarian president we've had since Calvin Coolidge (obviously not a very high bar). He's terrible on two issues--trade and immigration--but very good on almost every other one--economic and social (and he hasn't done much yet with trade or immigration). We've never had a president who had always been in favor of gay marriage. Hillary and Obama had to be dragged kicking and screaming to that position only in 2013 and 2012, respectively. Presidents usually come around on trade during their presidencies--both Bush II and Obama, sort of, did--so we'll see with Trump.

And you could very easily argue that he's had the best first year of any president since the War. Many commentators here have made that point (none on CNN, of course). Better than Reagan's -- Trump didn't make the mistake Reagan did with his tax plan. The economy stagnated in Clinton's first two years. Obama got nothing done -- Obamacare was year two, and that was a disaster. Bush had 9-11.

Anyway, libertarians are usually so skeptical of what they read and see in the press. The same should go for stories about Trump. And for the record, as a journalist who tries to stay as objective as possible, I don't support Trump or any politician. I support only policies, based on how libertarian and market-friendly they are.

Jaco Strauss

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Feb 26, 2018, 3:26:01 PM2/26/18

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Thanks John, I appreciate

I have to admit that I am a little disappointed to see that - just like all the other "never Trumpers" - even Leon had nothing to offer beyond the standard set of MSM induced empty adjectives....

Sad.

Regards / Groete / Salutations

Jaco Strauss

2018-02-14 23:01 GMT+02:00 <jkop...@forbes.com>:
I would agree with Jaco's points here. The never-Trumpers need to be much more skeptical of what they see on CNN. Good point about Trump's "lying." It's vastly overblown. In many ways he's been the most honest, transparent and upfront president we've had in years. He brags, he exaggerates, he's over the top. But he rarely if ever lies, at least about anything important. The media are obsessed with his "lies" and they often run lists -- 'Trump's 2,000 biggest lies,' etc. But glancing through the lists show how silly they are. They're always things like -- says he was on the cover of Time magazine 15 times since 1978 but Time confirms it was only 12 times.

And I agree the name-calling is dumb, and usually inaccurate. Of your list, @Leon, the opposite is closer to the truth with most of them. But he can be obnoxious and, as with virtually all American presidents, you could say he's narcissistic, but not nearly as much as Obama and Clinton. If Trump was as narcissistic as them he wouldn't have waited until age 70 to get into politics.

Anyway, you could easily argue that he's the most libertarian president we've had since Calvin Coolidge (obviously not a very high bar). He's terrible on two issues--trade and immigration--but very good on almost every other one--economic and social (and he hasn't done much yet with trade or immigration). We've never had a president who had always been in favor of gay marriage. Hillary and Obama had to be dragged kicking and screaming to that position only in 2013 and 2012, respectively. Presidents usually come around on trade during their presidencies--both Bush II and Obama, sort of, did--so we'll see with Trump.

And you could very easily argue that he's had the best first year of any president since the War. Many commentators here have made that point (none on CNN, of course). Better than Reagan's -- Trump didn't make the mistake Reagan did with his tax plan. The economy stagnated in Clinton's first two years. Obama got nothing done -- Obamacare was year two, and that was a disaster. Bush had 9-11.

Anyway, libertarians are usually so skeptical of what they read and see in the press. The same should go for stories about Trump. And for the record, as a journalist who tries to stay as objective as possible, I don't support Trump or any politician. I support only policies, based on how libertarian and market-friendly they are.

Koppisch, John

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Feb 26, 2018, 4:42:14 PM2/26/18

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Yes, it’s surprising that Leon is so negative on Trump after his successful first year. It’s so hard to avoid being tainted by the MSM even if you know in your head that they’re wrong most of the time.

Thanks John, I appreciate

Trevor Watkins

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Leon Louw

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Stephen van Jaarsveldt

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Feb 27, 2018, 1:14:15 AM2/27/18

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Oy... "successful first year"... sjoe, a politician having a "successful year"... that's scary ! Especially if it is the president of the USA as viewed by foreigners.

By what measures ? I mean, you can list the achievements of any given person on the planet for the last year, but how do you know it was "successful" on net ?

From where I'm sitting, the 2nd amendment seems to be more threatened now than ever before... that alone shouts several huge negatives. How do we know the positive outweigh that ?

Again, I'm not pro-Hillary or pro-Sanders. They were all very bad choices. Maybe Trump was the least bad. But to call him "good" or his first year "successful"... that is stretching things a bit.

S.

Thanks John, I appreciate

Trevor Watkins

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Leon Louw

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Koppisch, John

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Feb 27, 2018, 1:29:25 PM2/27/18

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I meant “successful” in terms of the way journalists usually try to objectively judge these things. The typical way is how many of his campaign promises he kept (whether you agree with those promises or not), how much he accomplished during the year (whether you agree with those accomplishments or not) and what the results were (how well the economy performed, progress made in resolving foreign conflicts, etc.). He did very well on all of those measures. But he also had a successful year on the issues libertarians care about. It’s all relative and other presidents have set a very low bar, but certainly much progress in a pro-market direction was made last year. The U.S. scores for economic freedom will go up when the next rankings come out. But now we’re in the second year and the signs are not as good. As you say, the 2^nd amendment is under more serious threat. And he’s starting to take the anti-trade steps he talked about during the campaign.

Thanks John, I appreciate

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Leon Louw

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http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/year-one-list-81-major-trump-achievements-11-obama-legacy-items-repealed/article/2644159

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Jaco Strauss

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Feb 27, 2018, 4:24:33 PM2/27/18

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Thanks for replying John, as for some reason I didn't receive any of Stephen's replies today.

I therefore only saw them as a result of responses... Weird. Perhaps Big Brother is shadow banning me already!

Anyway, I agree with John that it is hard to claim that Trump did not have a successful year regardless of the metric used. It is a little disingenuous to blame Trump for the "Second Amendment being under fire". He has been one of the most Pro 2A presidents in recent times and the Yanks can be very glad they have him there now and not Obama or Hillary who would never let a good tragedy go to waste. Remember Obama's attacks on the 2A after Sandy Hook?

Trump was masterful in hosting Parkland survivors and offering a nothing burger bump stock ban as a consolation prize while regaining the upper hand over the anti gun fascists. Compare his response to the Counterfeit News Network's staged and scripted so-called "Town Hall" No wonder they now have to pay outlets to air their schiff.

Any way as for Trump's achievements, they are especially impressive against the backdrop of 90% negative press coverage combined with a Russian hoax narrative pushed as a distraction by the previous administration who spied on him and their deep state holdovers. But in spite of all of that, the "racist" Trump still managed to achieve the lowest black and Latino unemployment figures since records began. Overall unemployment claims are now the lowest since 1973.

The Washington Examiner recently listed 81 achievements of Trump's first year - over and above the 11 Obama abominations he repealed : Beauty is - as always - in the eye of the beholder so as John pointed out you might not see all of these as positive. But they were achievements nonetheless and consistent with his election platform.

Jobs and the economy

Passage of the tax reform bill providing $5.5 billion in cuts and repealing the Obamacare mandate.
Increase of the GDP above 3 percent.
Creation of 1.7 million new jobs, cutting unemployment to 4.1 percent.
Saw the Dow Jones reach record highs.
A rebound in economic confidence to a 17-year high.
A new executive order to boost apprenticeships.
A move to boost computer sciences in Education Department programs.
Prioritizing women-owned businesses for some $500 million in SBA loans.

Killing job-stifling regulations

Signed an Executive Order demanding that two regulations be killed for every new one creates. He beat that big and cut 16 rules and regulations for every one created, saving $8.1 billion.
Signed 15 congressional regulatory cuts.
Withdrew from the Obama-era Paris Climate Agreement, ending the threat of environmental regulations.
Signed an Executive Order cutting the time for infrastructure permit approvals.
Eliminated an Obama rule on streams that Trump felt unfairly targeted the coal industry.

Fair trade

Made good on his campaign promise to withdraw from the Trans-Pacific Partnership.
Opened up the North American Free Trade Agreement for talks to better the deal for the U.S.
Worked to bring companies back to the U.S., and companies like Toyota, Mazda, Broadcom Limited, and Foxconn announced plans to open U.S. plants.
Worked to promote the sale of U.S products abroad.
Made enforcement of U.S. trade laws, especially those that involve national security, a priority.
Ended Obama’s deal with Cuba.

Boosting U.S. energy dominance

The Department of Interior, which has led the way in cutting regulations, opened plans to lease 77 million acres in the Gulf of Mexico for oil and gas drilling.
Trump traveled the world to promote the sale and use of U.S. energy.
Expanded energy infrastructure projects like the Keystone XL Pipeline snubbed by Obama.
Ordered the Environmental Protection Agency to kill Obama’s Clean Power Plan.
EPA is reconsidering Obama rules on methane emissions.

Protecting the U.S. homeland

Laid out new principles for reforming immigration and announced plan to end "chain migration," which lets one legal immigrant to bring in dozens of family members.
Made progress to build the border wall with Mexico.
Ended the Obama-era “catch and release” of illegal immigrants.
Boosted the arrests of illegals inside the U.S.
Doubled the number of counties participating with Immigration and Customs Enforcement charged with deporting illegals.
Removed 36 percent more criminal gang members than in fiscal 2016.
Started the end of the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrival program.
Ditto for other amnesty programs like Deferred Action for Parents of Americans.
Cracking down on some 300 sanctuary cities that defy ICE but still get federal dollars.
Added some 100 new immigration judges.

Protecting communities

Justice announced grants of $98 million to fund 802 new cops.
Justice worked with Central American nations to arrest and charge 4,000 MS-13 members.
Homeland rounded up nearly 800 MS-13 members, an 83 percent one-year increase.
Signed three executive orders aimed at cracking down on international criminal organizations.
Attorney General Jeff Sessions created new National Public Safety Partnership, a cooperative initiative with cities to reduce violent crimes.

Accountability

Trump has nominated 73 federal judges and won his nomination of Neil Gorsuch to the Supreme Court.
Ordered ethical standards including a lobbying ban.
Called for a comprehensive plan to reorganize the executive branch.
Ordered an overhaul to modernize the digital government.
Called for a full audit of the Pentagon and its spending.

Combatting opioids

First, the president declared a Nationwide Public Health Emergency on opioids.
His Council of Economic Advisors played a role in determining that overdoses are underreported by as much as 24 percent.
The Department of Health and Human Services laid out a new five-point strategy to fight the crisis.
Justice announced it was scheduling fentanyl substances as a drug class under the Controlled Substances Act.
Justice started a fraud crackdown, arresting more than 400.
The administration added $500 million to fight the crisis.
On National Drug Take Back Day, the Drug Enforcement Agency collected 456 tons.

Protecting life

In his first week, Trump reinstated and expanded the Mexico City Policy that blocks some $9 billion in foreign aid being used for abortions.
Worked with Congress on a bill overturning an Obama regulation that blocked states from defunding abortion providers.
Published guidance to block Obamacare money from supporting abortion.

Helping veterans

Signed the Veterans Accountability and Whistleblower Protection Act to allow senior officials in the Department of Veterans Affairs to fire failing employees and establish safeguards to protect whistleblowers.
Signed the Veterans Appeals Improvement and Modernization Act.
Signed the Harry W. Colmery Veterans Educational Assistance Act, to provide support.
Signed the VA Choice and Quality Employment Act of 2017 to authorize $2.1 billion in additional funds for the Veterans Choice Program.
Created a VA hotline.
Had the VA launch an online “Access and Quality Tool,” providing veterans with a way to access wait time and quality of care data.
With VA Secretary Dr. David Shulkin, announced three initiatives to expand access to healthcare for veterans using telehealth technology.

Promoting peace through strength

Directed the rebuilding of the military and ordered a new national strategy and nuclear posture review.
Worked to increase defense spending.
Empowered military leaders to “seize the initiative and win,” reducing the need for a White House sign off on every mission.
Directed the revival of the National Space Council to develop space war strategies.
Elevated U.S. Cyber Command into a major warfighting command.
Withdrew from the U.N. Global Compact on Migration, which Trump saw as a threat to borders.
Imposed a travel ban on nations that lack border and anti-terrorism security.
Saw ISIS lose virtually all of its territory.
Pushed for strong action against global outlaw North Korea and its development of nuclear weapons.
Announced a new Afghanistan strategy that strengthens support for U.S. forces at war with terrorism.
NATO increased support for the war in Afghanistan.
Approved a new Iran strategy plan focused on neutralizing the country’s influence in the region.
Ordered missile strikes against a Syrian airbase used in a chemical weapons attack.
Prevented subsequent chemical attacks by announcing a plan to detect them better and warned of future strikes if they were used.
Ordered new sanctions on the dictatorship in Venezuela.

Restoring confidence in and respect for America

Trump won the release of Americans held abroad, often using his personal relationships with world leaders.
Made good on a campaign promise to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.
Conducted a historic 12-day trip through Asia, winning new cooperative deals. On the trip, he attended three regional summits to promote American interests.
He traveled to the Middle East and Europe to build new relationships with leaders.
Traveled to Poland and on to Germany for the G-20 meeting where he pushed again for funding of women entrepreneurs.

Regards / Groete / Salutations

Jaco Strauss

Thanks John, I appreciate

Trevor Watkins

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Stephen van Jaarsveldt

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Feb 27, 2018, 7:40:56 PM2/27/18

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I agree that he may not be responsible for the 2nd amendment being under threat, but inversely, a few of those positive things would have happened anyway, so claiming credit for them is the same as blaming him for bad things which he also had no control over.

However, I'm happy to concede that point on condition that everything he had no (or limited) control over and which would have happened anyway in his absence, be removed from the list of stuff credited to him... for example increasing GDP to more than 3%, which would have happened in the absence of him (or any of the other alternatives).

That would leave a fairly long list of stuff which I would not consider Good... so if we also remove those (like subsidies to cops), whether they are campaign promises or not, and just leave the ones that are really under his control and really Good, that would be a substantially shorter list. Note I'm not suggesting moving them to the Bad list.

I'm not saying that the list of good things he did does not exist - it is clear that Trump has done at least some good things. However, it seems to me that those who are against him are keeping themselves completely blind to it and those who like him fixate on and exaggerate it... quite a bit, on both sides.

The truth seems to lie somewhere in-between i.e. Trump is not the devil and he seems in fact to be less devil than the mass media darling Obama... but he is no saint either. Within the broader collection of devils, he seems somewhat more saintly than many of the devils around him, but still solidly within the classification of devil rather than saint.

Finally, please see my comments in the context of this group, which is generally against government, and my personal view, which is against all government everywhere. You could take a saint like Trevor, have him create a Libertarian Party and have that party perfectly run, have them win the majority vote in a free and fair election, and I would still call it evil, simply because it is government.

In public and in polite company, however, I would admit that the Rule of his Libertarian Majesty Trevor is an evil preferable to all other evils and that a reduction in government is A Good Thing. In that context, I would say that Trump was possibly the least evil of the choices available to the US voters and your somewhat positively biased account of his first year in office below reflects some of that.

S.

Koppisch, John

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Feb 27, 2018, 8:10:32 PM2/27/18

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I would make the point that 3%+ GDP growth almost certainly would not have happened if Trump hadn’t won the election. The mood of investors, business people and consumers changed overnight. The stock market soared, business and consumer confidence jumped, companies starting dusting off expansion plans, consumers started spending more. It was a like switch was turned on and it was remarkable. Few people realized how downbeat the economy was – we had all gotten so used to it -- and how there was such a huge potential for growth as soon as the conditions were right. Trump’s election signaled the conditions were now right and when he chopped regulations and cut taxes, that only proved that conditions were indeed right to invest and spend. It’s interesting how the quick turnaround has hurt Obama’s reputation. If an idiot like Trump – as the left would call him -- could turn a stagnant economy around just by showing up, why couldn’t Obama do that?

Yes, there are definitely some bad things on Jaco’s list but things are turning out better than expected, at least better than I expected. But the potential for Trump blowing up is always there. And there is also a high potential that he starts doing more bad things than good things, especially if the Democrats take control of the House and they get him to the move to the left.

Thanks John, I appreciate

Trevor Watkins

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Stephen van Jaarsveldt

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Feb 27, 2018, 8:19:46 PM2/27/18

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There is a difference between "if Trump hadn't won" and "because of Trump". I believe you are correct in that, if Sanders won, GDP would have been negative (or rather it would have been GDL, since there is no such thing as "negative growth" - either it grew or it shrunk)... and if Hillary won, I doubt GDP would have been much over 1%, probably much lower. However, that's not what I said. I said in the absence of Trump. If the US population was able to vote "None of the above" and have no president and the government was simply shut down for the next four years until the next election, then I believe GDP would have been closer to 10%. So one could argue that Trump merely restricted or stunted GDP to 3%, whereas the other candidates would have done much worse. Attributing 3% to Trump is like saying mommy is a better parent because she doesn't punch as hard as daddy.

S.

73,

Stephen

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Thanks John, I appreciate

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Koppisch, John

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Feb 27, 2018, 8:27:37 PM2/27/18

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Well, can’t argue with that. It probably would be 50%. Hernando de Soto said the economy in Peru grew at night, when the govt was asleep. In the U.S. the govt would be able to grow at night and during the day.

Thanks John, I appreciate

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