Rigged Polls
Humphry Hamilton
Here is an email supposedly from Podesta talking about oversampling poll results in other words “correcting them”. It has been alleged that this is how they have been messing with the polls so as to discourage voters and ultimately change their vote.
It would explain why the polls have been inaccurate of late.
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/26551
Humphry
Dewald Pieterse
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Ludwig von Mises, Liberalism, page 55: "A free man must be able to endure it when his fellow men act and live otherwise than he considers proper. He must free himself from the habit, just as soon as something does not please him, of calling for the police.".
Jaco Strauss
Indeed
But Operation Veritas is of course revealing a lot more than just "over sampling". The "Democrats" are not all that democratic after all...
And if they are not resisting Voter Identification they are blaming the Russians for all their election problems, real or imagined.
#BestElectionEver
Mark Heaton
Jaco ... don't know where you get that inane # best election ever garbage from. To me this is probably the worst possible election between the two of the most unpopular and unsuitable candidates ever.
I despair for the US and the planet whichever is elected.
Indeed
But Operation Veritas is of course revealing a lot more than just "over sampling". The "Democrats" are not all that democratic after all...
And if they are not resisting Voter Identification they are blaming the Russians for all their election problems, real or imagined.
#BestElectionEver
On 28 Oct 2016 08:20, "Dewald Pieterse" <dewald....@gmail.com> wrote:
So polls like science is biased..All about the data you disregard if doesn't suit your hockeystick or overcount if it does.
On 28 October 2016 at 07:33, Humphry Hamilton <hwham...@icon.co.za> wrote:
Here is an email supposedly from Podesta talking about oversampling poll results in other words “correcting them”. It has been alleged that this is how they have been messing with the polls so as to discourage voters and ultimately change their vote.
It would explain why the polls have been inaccurate of late.
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/26551
Humphry
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--Dewald Pieterse
Ludwig von Mises, Liberalism, page 55: "A free man must be able to endure it when his fellow men act and live otherwise than he considers proper. He must free himself from the habit, just as soon as something does not please him, of calling for the police.".
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Humphry Hamilton
Exactly, they are literally risking war with Russia in order to stop Trump, fortunately Putin understands exactly what is going on and can hopefully restrain himself. It seems unbelievable that thy would risk the lives of thousands, if not millions just so that they can continue doing what they have been doing for years. But then they did the same thing in 9/11, sacrificed thousands of lives to get what they wanted.
This is what happens to democracies, the tail starts wagging the dog. Eventually the dog will notice and put a stop to it.
From: li...@googlegroups.com [mailto:li...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jaco Strauss
Sent: 28 October 2016 08:34 AM
To: Libsa
Subject: Re: [Libsa] Rigged Polls
Indeed
But Operation Veritas is of course revealing a lot more than just "over sampling". The "Democrats" are not all that democratic after all...
And if they are not resisting Voter Identification they are blaming the Russians for all their election problems, real or imagined.
#BestElectionEver
On 28 Oct 2016 08:20, "Dewald Pieterse" <dewald....@gmail.com> wrote:
So polls like science is biased..
All about the data you disregard if doesn't suit your hockeystick or overcount if it does.
On 28 October 2016 at 07:33, Humphry Hamilton <hwham...@icon.co.za> wrote:
Here is an email supposedly from Podesta talking about oversampling poll results in other words “correcting them”. It has been alleged that this is how they have been messing with the polls so as to discourage voters and ultimately change their vote.
It would explain why the polls have been inaccurate of late.
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/26551
Humphry
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Dewald Pieterse
Ludwig von Mises, Liberalism, page 55: "A free man must be able to endure it when his fellow men act and live otherwise than he considers proper. He must free himself from the habit, just as soon as something does not please him, of calling for the police.".
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Dewald Pieterse
Exactly, they are literally risking war with Russia in order to stop Trump, fortunately Putin understands exactly what is going on and can hopefully restrain himself. It seems unbelievable that thy would risk the lives of thousands, if not millions just so that they can continue doing what they have been doing for years. But then they did the same thing in 9/11, sacrificed thousands of lives to get what they wanted.
This is what happens to democracies, the tail starts wagging the dog. Eventually the dog will notice and put a stop to it.
From: li...@googlegroups.com [mailto:li...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jaco Strauss
Sent: 28 October 2016 08:34 AM
To: Libsa
Subject: Re: [Libsa] Rigged Polls
Indeed
But Operation Veritas is of course revealing a lot more than just "over sampling". The "Democrats" are not all that democratic after all...
And if they are not resisting Voter Identification they are blaming the Russians for all their election problems, real or imagined.
#BestElectionEver
On 28 Oct 2016 08:20, "Dewald Pieterse" <dewald....@gmail.com> wrote:
So polls like science is biased..
All about the data you disregard if doesn't suit your hockeystick or overcount if it does.
On 28 October 2016 at 07:33, Humphry Hamilton <hwham...@icon.co.za> wrote:
Here is an email supposedly from Podesta talking about oversampling poll results in other words “correcting them”. It has been alleged that this is how they have been messing with the polls so as to discourage voters and ultimately change their vote.
It would explain why the polls have been inaccurate of late.
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/26551
Humphry
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Dewald Pieterse
Ludwig von Mises, Liberalism, page 55: "A free man must be able to endure it when his fellow men act and live otherwise than he considers proper. He must free himself from the habit, just as soon as something does not please him, of calling for the police.".
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Humphry Hamilton
No Mark, this is an important election, regardless of the outcome, Trump is a revolution as he is not part of the establishment. This is not an election of republican vs democrat, if it was then you would be correct. This is an election of the people vs the government and in this regard Trump is a revelation. Who in their right mind would go up against the might of the US government? You need to be an egomaniac like Trump to even consider it and so I put up with this side of his character.
Your despair is well founded but it is not caused by the candidates but by the position the US finds itself in the cycle of empire building, debt and subsequent collapse.
From: li...@googlegroups.com [mailto:li...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Heaton
Sent: 28 October 2016 09:10 AM
To: li...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Libsa] Rigged Polls
Jaco ... don't know where you get that inane # best election ever garbage from. To me this is probably the worst possible election between the two of the most unpopular and unsuitable candidates ever.
Jaco Strauss
Sorry Mark, but I have not enjoyed an election this much since Reagan 84, when he carried 49 states...
It is just so much better to be treated to this circus than having the usual light grey Republicrat 1 vs off grey Republicrat 2.
I only "despair for the US and the planet" if Crooked Hillary actually succeeds in stealing this one...
J
Jaco ... don't know where you get that inane # best election ever garbage from. To me this is probably the worst possible election between the two of the most unpopular and unsuitable candidates ever.
I despair for the US and the planet whichever is elected.
On Fri, 28 Oct 2016, 8:34 AM Jaco Strauss <jacos...@gmail.com> wrote:
Indeed
But Operation Veritas is of course revealing a lot more than just "over sampling". The "Democrats" are not all that democratic after all...
And if they are not resisting Voter Identification they are blaming the Russians for all their election problems, real or imagined.
#BestElectionEver
On 28 Oct 2016 08:20, "Dewald Pieterse" <dewald....@gmail.com> wrote:
So polls like science is biased..All about the data you disregard if doesn't suit your hockeystick or overcount if it does.
On 28 October 2016 at 07:33, Humphry Hamilton <hwham...@icon.co.za> wrote:
Here is an email supposedly from Podesta talking about oversampling poll results in other words “correcting them”. It has been alleged that this is how they have been messing with the polls so as to discourage voters and ultimately change their vote.
It would explain why the polls have been inaccurate of late.
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/26551
Humphry
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--Dewald Pieterse
Ludwig von Mises, Liberalism, page 55: "A free man must be able to endure it when his fellow men act and live otherwise than he considers proper. He must free himself from the habit, just as soon as something does not please him, of calling for the police.".
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Mark Heaton
@Jaco,
I have to agree that the contest does have a higher level of entertainment value this time round – mainly because Trump invites so much ridicule.
It appears you have become brainwashed into believing the “rigged” outcome already ... trotting out the Trump mantra like the good sycophant you have become. Ie If Trump wins, the poll was fair. If he loses, the poll must have been rigged. The fact that he is a complete halfwit who cannot string a coherent sentence together and knows hardly anything about foreign policy, is disliked by large and important constituencies (women, African Americans and Latinos) will seemingly be irrelevant in contemplating the reason for him losing.
I despair if Trump wins – as he will not be able to deliver a large number of the election promises he made (unless I am very out of my depth here) – and so will be either a huge disappointment, or a liar. His foreign policy knowledge is mind-bogglingly absent ... and come-on, he can’t actually make up his mind whether he has met Putin or not.
And if Hillary wins – we are also stuffed. More likely to keep wars going, more likely to push deficit up (although I am unsure actually which of them will make the deficit worse than the other), more likely to keep abysmal Obama policies in place, and more likely to have a corrupt administration. But while I dislike them both immensely, I have to favour the devil I know – rather than a buffoon who is an insult to my intelligence.
But I would spoil my ballot (if I had a choice). I don’t think I could even vote for Johnson – who I also find a bit odd.
M
From: li...@googlegroups.com [mailto:li...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jaco Strauss
Sent: 28 October 2016 10:29 AM
To: Libsa
Subject: Re: [Libsa] Rigged Polls
Sorry Mark, but I have not enjoyed an election this much since Reagan 84, when he carried 49 states...
It is just so much better to be treated to this circus than having the usual light grey Republicrat 1 vs off grey Republicrat 2.
I only "despair for the US and the planet" if Crooked Hillary actually succeeds in stealing this one...
J
On 28 Oct 2016 09:10, "Mark Heaton" <mark....@imaginet.co.za> wrote:
Jaco ... don't know where you get that inane # best election ever garbage from. To me this is probably the worst possible election between the two of the most unpopular and unsuitable candidates ever.
I despair for the US and the planet whichever is elected.
On Fri, 28 Oct 2016, 8:34 AM Jaco Strauss <jacos...@gmail.com> wrote:
Indeed
But Operation Veritas is of course revealing a lot more than just "over sampling". The "Democrats" are not all that democratic after all...
And if they are not resisting Voter Identification they are blaming the Russians for all their election problems, real or imagined.
#BestElectionEver
On 28 Oct 2016 08:20, "Dewald Pieterse" <dewald....@gmail.com> wrote:
So polls like science is biased..
All about the data you disregard if doesn't suit your hockeystick or overcount if it does.
On 28 October 2016 at 07:33, Humphry Hamilton <hwham...@icon.co.za> wrote:
Here is an email supposedly from Podesta talking about oversampling poll results in other words “correcting them”. It has been alleged that this is how they have been messing with the polls so as to discourage voters and ultimately change their vote.
It would explain why the polls have been inaccurate of late.
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/26551
Humphry
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Dewald Pieterse
Ludwig von Mises, Liberalism, page 55: "A free man must be able to endure it when his fellow men act and live otherwise than he considers proper. He must free himself from the habit, just as soon as something does not please him, of calling for the police.".
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Jaco Strauss
@Mark
Election rigging comes in many forms. We have, for eg, many proven cases of over sampling, are you denying that?
We have the media extremely biased and even engaging in over sampling themselves. CNN did it after every debate and got caught out every time. Are you denying that?
The Democrats have been fighting against voter registration and voter ID's for years and the less control, the more opportunity for voter fraud. Is that something you deny?
Have you even heard of operation Veritas?
You seem to think it makes you sycophantic to point out what has already been proven. Hillary accusing the Russians of planning to rig the election, but somehow doesn't attract the same ridicule. Because she us the "devil you know"?
Or Obama complaining about vote rigging in 2008 (before he won). And remember he came from the city whose rigging probably allowed Kennedy to "steal the 1960 election fair and square"....
But Trump is expected to give the whole process a clean thumbs up weeks in advance, while no Democrat expected that from Al Gore, even after the fact?!
#DoubleStandards
You further claim Trump can't string a coherent sentence together?! Have we watched the same debates? Have you listened to #Gettysburg? Have you listened to Hillary of late?
Apparently your strawman translates into loss of support amongst black voters, but it is hard to see how you get to that. Trump is polling more than double the black support of McCain and Romney and seems poised to get the best black voter turnout for a Republican since Richard Nixon in 1960.
You probably missed that the same way you missed every coherent thing he has said. But probably not the BREAKING NEWS that he said "p*ssy" 11 years ago....
But then again you also never heard of Aleppo before Johnson, so who knows what your sources are or what informs your insights.
J
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Dewald Pieterse
Ludwig von Mises, Liberalism, page 55: "A free man must be able to endure it when his fellow men act and live otherwise than he considers proper. He must free himself from the habit, just as soon as something does not please him, of calling for the police.".
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Humphry Hamilton
Quite right, and with the meme of clawing back power from government, it is quite remarkable that the Bundy’s have won their (1st) case. I had concluded that they didn’t have a hope. Something has changed.
As Martin Armstrong points out, the juries are also part of the revolution and so refuse to cowtow to the state. I think we have just witnessed this.
Jaco, it is Project Veritas not Operation Veritas.
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Dewald Pieterse
Ludwig von Mises, Liberalism, page 55: "A free man must be able to endure it when his fellow men act and live otherwise than he considers proper. He must free himself from the habit, just as soon as something does not please him, of calling for the police.".
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Leon Louw (gmail)
Hitler and Stalin, like Trump and Clinton, were for "the people" (ie "the" people they're "for") and against "the other people".
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Dewald Pieterse
Ludwig von Mises, Liberalism, page 55: "A free man must be able to endure it when his fellow men act and live otherwise than he considers proper. He must free himself from the habit, just as soon as something does not please him, of calling for the police.".
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Leon Louw
work: +27-11-884-0270
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"Money won’t create success, the freedom to make it will."
Nelson Mandela
“But man, proud man,
Dress'd in a little brief authority,
Most ignorant of what he's most assur'd –
His glassy essence—like an angry
ape
Plays such fantastic tricks before high heaven
As makes the angels weep."
Shakespeare
Humphry Hamilton
You are quite right, there is a risk that Trump could do anything, he certainly has the character for it but there is a small chance that he may do some good regarding the most pressing problem in the US at the moment and that is to remove the “Deep State”.
His latest mantra is “We must drain the swamp” the swamp is Washington. He is unlikely to be completely successful at this, there are a lot of vested interests. His other mantra to “Make America great again” he is definitely going to fail at, no one can do this. As I say - a small chance. The fact that he is a not a career politician makes that chance marginally greater.
Clinton by promising to keep the Clinton Foundation going while she is president is promising that it will be corrupt business as usual and probably an order of magnitude worse than it has been. There is no chance of her doing any good. In fact if she gets in she will probably spend her entire presidential career fending of impeachments, etc.
Given the choice of all the people in the world, I would not choose Trump to be president but I don’t get to choose this. Joe US citizen gets to choose between Trump and Clinton.
All I can say is that it is a sign of the times that Trump is a presidential candidate. It was predicted (Martin Armstrong) that support for a third party would be very strong this election and Trump is the third party as he is not endorsed by either Democratic or Republican establishments. The turnout to vote should also be good.
I still think Trump will win. The fact that Clinton has to produce fake rally videos to try and persuade people via YouTube that she has great support, tells me she has very little regardless of what the polls say. One betting broker has already paid out $900 000 on bets that Clinton will win i.e. he is saying it is a fait accompli. I am not so sure.
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Dewald Pieterse
Ludwig von Mises, Liberalism, page 55: "A free man must be able to endure it when his fellow men act and live otherwise than he considers proper. He must free himself from the habit, just as soon as something does not please him, of calling for the police.".
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Leon Louw
work: +27-11-884-0270
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"Money won’t create success, the freedom to make it will."
Nelson Mandela
“But man, proud man,
Dress'd in a little brief authority,
Most ignorant of what he's most assur'd –
His glassy essence—like an angry ape
Plays such fantastic tricks before high heaven
As makes the angels weep."
Shakespeare
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Leon Louw (gmail)
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Dewald Pieterse
Ludwig von Mises, Liberalism, page 55: "A free man must be able to endure it when his fellow men act and live otherwise than he considers proper. He must free himself from the habit, just as soon as something does not please him, of calling for the police.".
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--Leon Louw
work: +27-11-884-0270
mobile: +27-84-618-0348
"Money won’t create success, the freedom to make it will."
Nelson Mandela
“But man, proud man,
Dress'd in a little brief authority,
Most ignorant of what he's most assur'd –
His glassy essence—like an angry ape
Plays such fantastic tricks before high heaven
As makes the angels weep."Shakespeare
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Stephen van Jaarsveldt
Leon Louw (gmail)
Trevor Watkins
bas...@gmail.com 083 44 11 721 - 0631 949394 - Skype base37 - (fax)0866 532 363 - www.libertarian.org.za
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Stephen van Jaarsveldt
Jaco Strauss
Kaapstad
Leon Louw (gmail)
Graeme Levin
Good points Jaco. Also there are reports of the following, which if true would suggest claims of RIGGING could have some foundation
1. If one candidate is not prosecuted for destroying emails AFTER being subpoenaed to deliver them, it's a RIGGING of the elections if that candidate is treated above the law and differently to every other American and is, up to now, permitted to compete prosecution-free.
2. If one candidate is fed the questions prior to a debate, that's RIGGING. CNN fired Brazile for being caught doing that for one candidate.
3. If one candidate's campaign disrupts meetings of the other, that is RIGGING the elections
4. If one candidate commits perjury there should be no question of being above the law and not being prosecuted or else the election will be RIGGED.
5. There are reports of Pre-Voting fraud where voters need not be personally present to vote. If true, that is RIGGING
The Corrupt News Network and other mass media say accusations of rigging threaten the very democratic foundations of the great USA. Perhaps the above points and those raised by Jaco are what actually threaten the slender remains of democracy.
Politically motivated polls could be used to influence (RIG) voting behaviour. For example, on the morning of the Brexit Referendum, a major UK poll reported that the Remainers exceeded the Brexiteers by 10%. In my view, the purpose was to disillusion the Brexiteers and to influence them not to support a losing cause. That day, the savvy Brexiteers won.
The same could be done with distorted polls on support from Women, Blacks, Hispanics and other groups.
Did you know Crooked Hillary was surprised that Palestinan elections were allowed to be held without taking adequate steps to fix (RIG) the outcome (presumably to prevent Hamas winning)?
http://conservativetribune.com/bombshell-audio-rigging-election/?utm_source=Email&utm_medium=PostUp&utm_campaign=ConservativeBrief&utm_content=2016-10-29
And we all know about the RIGGING of the campaign against Bernie Sanders.
Crooked Hillary is not a novice in the RIGGING department.
From: li...@googlegroups.com [mailto:li...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jaco Strauss
Sent: 28 October 2016 22:46
To: Libsa <li...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Libsa] Rigged Polls
@Mark
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Dewald Pieterse
Ludwig von Mises, Liberalism, page 55: "A free man must be able to endure it when his fellow men act and live otherwise than he considers proper. He must free himself from the habit, just as soon as something does not please him, of calling for the police.".
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Humphry Hamilton
Quite right, talk is cheap and anything I say on this blog is worth to you exactly what you paid for it.
I think Trump will win and it will probably have the flavour similar to Brexit which was 52:48. These are not odds worth betting on. In the futures market I only place bets on ratios greater than 2:1 (potential reward vs risk taken). I am wrong a certain percentage of the time.
As the above states my confidence in the prediction is weak and my preference/prediction for Trump over Clinton is 1. Because he might do some good as opposed to Hillary who definitely won’t do any good and 2. My view of the world and the cycles at work would be confirmed to some extent by a Trump win. If there is some confusion here between preference and prediction then so be it.
There is a fair chance that Hillary is a better thief than I give her credit for and she ends up winning. She is certainly desperate, Trump has stated that she goes to jail if he wins.
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Dewald Pieterse
Ludwig von Mises, Liberalism, page 55: "A free man must be able to endure it when his fellow men act and live otherwise than he considers proper. He must free himself from the habit, just as soon as something does not please him, of calling for the police.".
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Leon Louw
work: +27-11-884-0270
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"Money won’t create success, the freedom to make it will."
Nelson Mandela
“But man, proud man,
Dress'd in a little brief authority,
Most ignorant of what he's most assur'd –
His glassy essence—like an angry ape
Plays such fantastic tricks before high heaven
As makes the angels weep."
Shakespeare
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Leon Louw
work: +27-11-884-0270
mobile: +27-84-618-0348
"Money won’t create success, the freedom to make it will."
Nelson Mandela
“But man, proud man,
Dress'd in a little brief authority,
Most ignorant of what he's most assur'd –
His glassy essence—like an angry ape
Plays such fantastic tricks before high heaven
As makes the angels weep."
Shakespeare
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Humphry Hamilton
And this is probably just the tip of the iceberg.
Humphry Hamilton
From Stansberry Research
Is the stock market predicting a Trump victory?
According to Sam Stovall, chief investment strategist at equities-research firm CFRA, history suggests the odds of a Donald Trump presidency may be higher than many folks believe. As he explained to financial-news network CNBC yesterday...
Going back to World War II, the S&P 500 performance between July 31 and October 31 has accurately predicted a challenger victory 86% of the time when the stock market performance has been negative.
The S&P 500 has been negative in eight election years over that time. And Stovall notes all but one – in 1956, when Adlai Stevenson ran against then-President Dwight Eisenhower – ended with a non-incumbent-party win. This year, the S&P 500 fell 2.2% from the last trading day of July through October 31.
A Trump victory would certainly come as a surprise to many... Most mainstream media polls show a small (but narrowing) lead for Hillary Clinton, but real-money bets continue to heavily favor the Democrat. Political-betting website Betfair currently puts Clinton's chance of winning at 72.2%.
Of course, real-money bets were famously wrong about this summer's "Brexit" vote... so we wouldn't rule anything out just yet. Stovall apparently agrees... "I would say on face value it's saying prepare to be surprised on Tuesday," he said.
Mark Heaton
Humphry, Trump has not “stated that she goes to jail if he wins”.
Firstly – he does not have the executive capacity to jail someone. Fortunately a judiciary and jury still has that prerogative in the US.
Secondly – he has stated that he will have her investigated. Again, that will be the prerogative of the AG and FBI I would imagine – perhaps on his recommendation. But I still don’t think that he has the capacity to launch an investigation himself.
Thirdly – what he did say was an off-the cuff comment when Hillary said “You know it’s just awfully good that someone with the temperament of Donald Trump is not in charge of the law in this country.” He quipped “Because you’d be in jail”. It was a hypothetical comment that if he was in charge of the law, she would be in jail. Not talking about the future.
Mark Heaton
Graeme, I agree with 4 of your 5 points below, but how far do you take it ...
- With point 1 ... just because one person is not prosecuted, does not mean the election is rigged. JZ was not prosecuted in South Africa – does that mean our election was rigged? Just because the majority choose to be presided over by someone who is actually a criminal (like in SA .. assuming guilt that is) to me does not equate to rigging – it just shows why a country actually ends up with the government it deserves.
- If one candidate has access to far more financial resources than the other – is that Rigging?
- If one candidate has a much better campaign than the other, is that rigging?
- If the polls consistently show a projected result which then does not occur (such as Brexit) – is that rigging?
I suppose it depends on your definition of rigging ... I guess I am not equating “free and fair” with “rigging”. To me the term “rigging” would refer to the actual discrepancy between what happened at the ballot box and the result declared. But maybe my definition is way too narrow.
Humphry Hamilton
OK, but it amounts to the same thing and an off the cuff comment like that is often more truthful than one thought out.
The reason she isn’t in jail is because she is protected by her political position and influence. I have very little doubt that if she was investigated properly that she would end up in jail. A Trump win would remove her political protection and she would end up in jail. She has stated so herself or rather she said that if that bastard wins we all end up swinging on the end of a noose. This makes me think that we don’t know half of it yet.
Leon Louw (gmail)
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Dewald Pieterse
Ludwig von Mises, Liberalism, page 55: "A free man must be able to endure it when his fellow men act and live otherwise than he considers proper. He must free himself from the habit, just as soon as something does not please him, of calling for the police.".
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--Leon Louw
work: +27-11-884-0270
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"Money won’t create success, the freedom to make it will."
Nelson Mandela
“But man, proud man,
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Most ignorant of what he's most assur'd –
His glassy essence—like an angry ape
Plays such fantastic tricks before high heaven
As makes the angels weep."Shakespeare
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Leon Louw
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"Money won’t create success, the freedom to make it will."
Nelson Mandela
“But man, proud man,
Dress'd in a little brief authority,
Most ignorant of what he's most assur'd –
His glassy essence—like an angry ape
Plays such fantastic tricks before high heaven
As makes the angels weep."Shakespeare
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Humphry Hamilton
You have a point but when they find ballots in boxes in a warehouse all with a tick next to Hillary Clinton then this is definitely rigging.
Also what is happening is that the ability of the state and by association Hillary Clinton to influence events and opinions by less than honest means has reached its peak. Prior to 2015 their dirty tricks were largely ignored by the public. Wikileaks was jumping up and down but not until recently did anyone take any notice. This is not because Wikileaks has recently had anything better to say, their stuff has always been revealing, but the general population suddenly started to take notice. There is a cycle to this and how the herd swings from one extreme to the next and I am pretty sure we have already seen peak government. We are starting to witness the people taking power back from the state, the fact that Trump the outsider is a contender, the Bundy win against the state, these are important markers. So rigging in the broad sense has been going on for a while but suddenly it seems to matter and the likes of Hillary Clinton have not noticed the change and continue to feast on the block of cheese in the rat trap.
Jaco Strauss
Kaapstad
Dewald Pieterse
Mark Heaton
Hell ... Jaco and I actually agree on something regarding this election J
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Dewald Pieterse
Ludwig von Mises, Liberalism, page 55: "A free man must be able to endure it when his fellow men act and live otherwise than he considers proper. He must free himself from the habit, just as soon as something does not please him, of calling for the police.".
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Leon Louw
work: +27-11-884-0270
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"Money won’t create success, the freedom to make it will."
Nelson Mandela
“But man, proud man,
Dress'd in a little brief authority,
Most ignorant of what he's most assur'd –
His glassy essence—like an angry ape
Plays such fantastic tricks before high heaven
As makes the angels weep."
Shakespeare
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Leon Louw
work: +27-11-884-0270
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"Money won’t create success, the freedom to make it will."
Nelson Mandela
“But man, proud man,
Dress'd in a little brief authority,
Most ignorant of what he's most assur'd –
His glassy essence—like an angry ape
Plays such fantastic tricks before high heaven
As makes the angels weep."
Shakespeare
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Leon Louw
work: +27-11-884-0270
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"Money won’t create success, the freedom to make it will."
Nelson Mandela
“But man, proud man,
Dress'd in a little brief authority,
Most ignorant of what he's most assur'd –
His glassy essence—like an angry ape
Plays such fantastic tricks before high heaven
As makes the angels weep."
Shakespeare
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Jaco Strauss
Kaapstad
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Humphry Hamilton
Bush is going to vote for Clinton.
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/exclusive-george-hw-bush-to-vote-for-hillary-228395
More evidence that this is not a vote of democrat vs republican but a vote of insider (establishment) vs outsider (the rest of us).
From: li...@googlegroups.com [mailto:li...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jaco Strauss
Sent: 02 November 2016 03:41 PM
To: Libertarian SA
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Dewald Pieterse
Ludwig von Mises, Liberalism, page 55: "A free man must be able to endure it when his fellow men act and live otherwise than he considers proper. He must free himself from the habit, just as soon as something does not please him, of calling for the police.".
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Leon Louw
work: +27-11-884-0270
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"Money won’t create success, the freedom to make it will."
Nelson Mandela
“But man, proud man,
Dress'd in a little brief authority,
Most ignorant of what he's most assur'd –
His glassy essence—like an angry ape
Plays such fantastic tricks before high heaven
As makes the angels weep."
Shakespeare
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Leon Louw
work: +27-11-884-0270
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"Money won’t create success, the freedom to make it will."
Nelson Mandela
“But man, proud man,
Dress'd in a little brief authority,
Most ignorant of what he's most assur'd –
His glassy essence—like an angry ape
Plays such fantastic tricks before high heaven
As makes the angels weep."
Shakespeare
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Leon Louw
work: +27-11-884-0270
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"Money won’t create success, the freedom to make it will."
Nelson Mandela
“But man, proud man,
Dress'd in a little brief authority,
Most ignorant of what he's most assur'd –
His glassy essence—like an angry ape
Plays such fantastic tricks before high heaven
As makes the angels weep."
Shakespeare
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Jaco Strauss
Kaapstad
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Frances Kendall
Sent from Frances iPhone
Jaco Strauss
Of course there are probably as many (if not more) Democrats voting for Trump as there are Republicans voting for Clinton....
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Dewald Pieterse
Ludwig von Mises, Liberalism, page 55: "A free man must be able to endure it when his fellow men act and live otherwise than he considers proper. He must free himself from the habit, just as soon as something does not please him, of calling for the police.".
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--Leon Louw
work: +27-11-884-0270
mobile: +27-84-618-0348
"Money won’t create success, the freedom to make it will."
Nelson Mandela
“But man, proud man,
Dress'd in a little brief authority,
Most ignorant of what he's most assur'd –
His glassy essence—like an angry ape
Plays such fantastic tricks before high heaven
As makes the angels weep."Shakespeare
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Leon Louw
work: +27-11-884-0270
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"Money won’t create success, the freedom to make it will."
Nelson Mandela
“But man, proud man,
Dress'd in a little brief authority,
Most ignorant of what he's most assur'd –
His glassy essence—like an angry ape
Plays such fantastic tricks before high heaven
As makes the angels weep."Shakespeare
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Leon Louw
work: +27-11-884-0270
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"Money won’t create success, the freedom to make it will."
Nelson Mandela
“But man, proud man,
Dress'd in a little brief authority,
Most ignorant of what he's most assur'd –
His glassy essence—like an angry ape
Plays such fantastic tricks before high heaven
As makes the angels weep."Shakespeare
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Jaco Strauss
Kaapstad
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Humphry Hamilton
This is not about republicans voting for democrats, I am sure there are millions that switch at each election. It is that a past Republican President is now voting for a democrat, when last did this happen? It must mean that the Republican Party is in complete disarray, thanks to Trump. The reason Bush is voting for the Democrats is not because he has had a sudden change of heart but because he knows that Trump is perhaps going to upset the fantastically beneficial arrangement he has with government. The lovely rotation of Goldman Sachs people into and out of government is a similar arrangement and hence their support for Clinton. Trump’s support comes from mom and pop, he has received more small donations (less than $200) than any republican candidate in history.
You are going to throw everything at me now but what is happening is very Libertarian, even though Trump is not a particularly Libertarian candidate, perhaps that is an understatement. Perhaps he is in need of some education.
Trump has taken the lid off Libertarian sentiment and although far from an ideal candidate is awakening a revolution against the cosy to and fro relationship between Republicans and Democrats which has long been to the detriment of the average American. Power is starting to be taken back from the state and handed to the citizen, this is in line with libertarian thought.
This is one of the reasons why Johnson never got anywhere even though he was the Libertarian candidate, he was barking up the wrong tree. He wanted to get government running properly which is admirable and he had a track record of doing so but what is needed is to get rid of a lot of government i.e. “drain the swamp”.
The Republican Party is in disarray and the Democrats will be, especially if Clinton doesn’t win, and their horribly corrupt behaviour eventually comes to light.
This is why a Trump Presidency will likely result in less violence as he will dampen this revolutionary trend, Clinton will push against it until there is a much bigger reaction later.
Democracies like markets are natural systems and self-regulate. Clinton is trying to stop this self-regulation and she may succeed for a while but the system will eventually self-regulate. If the system is pushed to a greater extreme the reaction will naturally eventually be more violent.
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Dewald Pieterse
Ludwig von Mises, Liberalism, page 55: "A free man must be able to endure it when his fellow men act and live otherwise than he considers proper. He must free himself from the habit, just as soon as something does not please him, of calling for the police.".
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--Leon Louw
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"Money won’t create success, the freedom to make it will."
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Most ignorant of what he's most assur'd –
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Plays such fantastic tricks before high heaven
As makes the angels weep."Shakespeare
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Most ignorant of what he's most assur'd –
His glassy essence—like an angry ape
Plays such fantastic tricks before high heaven
As makes the angels weep."Shakespeare
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Ludwig von Mises, Liberalism, page 55: "A free man must be able to endure it when his fellow men act and live otherwise than he considers proper. He must free himself from the habit, just as soon as something does not please him, of calling for the police.".
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--Leon Louw
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"Money won’t create success, the freedom to make it will."
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His glassy essence—like an angry ape
Plays such fantastic tricks before high heaven
As makes the angels weep."Shakespeare
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Leon Louw
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"Money won’t create success, the freedom to make it will."
Nelson Mandela
“But man, proud man,
Dress'd in a little brief authority,
Most ignorant of what he's most assur'd –
His glassy essence—like an angry ape
Plays such fantastic tricks before high heaven
As makes the angels weep."Shakespeare
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Leon Louw
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"Money won’t create success, the freedom to make it will."
Nelson Mandela
“But man, proud man,
Dress'd in a little brief authority,
Most ignorant of what he's most assur'd –
His glassy essence—like an angry ape
Plays such fantastic tricks before high heaven
As makes the angels weep."Shakespeare
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Jaco Strauss
Kaapstad
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Mark Heaton
Exactly Paul ... well said.
If Trump wins, is he going to say he did so, despite the Rigging? Or were the polls then not Rigged if he won?
Does the FBI making the huge insinuation that Hillary has now done something wrong 1 week before the election constitute “Rigging” in the Trump definition thereof (or should that be “counter-rigging”).
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Jaco Strauss
Trump has been calling on the Russians to rig the election for him so neither candidate is rigging the election but if it ends up being rigged it is rigged for Trump.
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Kaapstad
Jaco Strauss
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Kaapstad
Leon Louw (gmail)
Graeme Levin
Mark, ordinarily I'd agree with your good point.
In this case CH's influential husband probably RIGGED the outcome of the ruling that let her off the hook. He met with the Attorney General for half an hour in a plane on the tarmac shortly before the inexplicable ruling.
From: li...@googlegroups.com [mailto:li...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Heaton
Sent: 02 November 2016 12:36
Stephen vJ
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Leon Louw (gmail)
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Dewald Pieterse
Ludwig von Mises, Liberalism, page 55: "A free man must be able to endure it when his fellow men act and live otherwise than he considers proper. He must free himself from the habit, just as soon as something does not please him, of calling for the police.".
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Leon Louw (gmail)
Paul AH Hjul
#RooiGevaar #RussiansEverywhere #NeoMcCarthyism
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--Jaco Strauss
Kaapstad
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--Leon Louw
work: +27-11-884-0270
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"Money won’t create success, the freedom to make it will."
Nelson Mandela
“But man, proud man,
Dress'd in a little brief authority,
Most ignorant of what he's most assur'd –
His glassy essence—like an angry ape
Plays such fantastic tricks before high heaven
As makes the angels weep."
Shakespeare
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--Leon Louw
work: +27-11-884-0270
mobile: +27-84-618-0348
"Money won’t create success, the freedom to make it will."
Nelson Mandela
“But man, proud man,
Dress'd in a little brief authority,
Most ignorant of what he's most assur'd –
His glassy essence—like an angry ape
Plays such fantastic tricks before high heaven
As makes the angels weep."
Shakespeare
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Stephen van Jaarsveldt
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Paul AH Hjul
Jaco Strauss
Kaapstad
Stephen vJ
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Paul AH Hjul
Humphry Hamilton
Leon
His article below the video “Insects of the Hour” is very good and looks at populism and should a democratic leader lead or follow the herd. It is a fine line.
The main point Hannan was making was whether populist movements should be fought against or listened to. He compares the European system of undemocratic and the US system of democratic and how the only way to deal with the European system is to leave it but in the US the people’s voice can be heard. As a politician he has to consider whether some populist movement is worth considering or not. As an observer like us, we don’t need to. This is what makes democracies self-regulating, this fine line between ignoring the wrong thing and ignoring the right thing. Get it wrong and you’re out.
It is clear that as he points out the US is in one of its modes of centralising power to the state and I contend that this is turning around. Those that choose to ignore the populist movement to turn this around (Clinton) may be able to push the envelope a bit further but the risks rise. In my view this populist movement is not going to go away and politicians would be well advised to address it.
In his video he contends that we should vote for Johnson, his argument is valid and it is difficult to disagree.
But what about the populist movement to support Trump? I understand very clearly why this is happening and am very sympathetic. I think that Johnson has not shown adequate fire in renouncing the “state capture” that has also taken place in the US and so the people have collected behind Trump. It’s probably as simple as that. They want someone who understands where they want to go and to charge out ahead. Could Gary ‘Insipid’ Johnson do this?
They are looking for a fight, now and again this is a good thing, and I doubt Johnson has ever thrown a punch in his life.
As an aside he is wrong about one thing when he says that he thinks that Blair and bush were mistaken when waging war on Iraq and finding no WMD. It is always tempting to conclude that politicians are stupid when explaining their actions. This is counterproductive, they are by nature very astute and shrewd and if we don’t understand why they have done something, we should always blame our own lack of understanding. I have always said that Iraq, Libya and possibly Syria had nothing to do with oil or WMD but about the US Dollar as reserve currency. Much of the Arab world, especially Gaddafi, were very keen to introduce a gold backed currency (dinar) which would have been a threat to the present US Dollar as world reserve currency, at least regionally. This had to be stopped and it is the reason why there is no real attempt to introduce democracy, etc. into these countries or even to get possession of their oil. The aim was to destroy the countries and hence their ability to produce the currency, this has been achieved. Recent Wikileaks exposure of Clinton’s emails is confirming this.
I notice that the UK government has handed the decision of whether to leave Europe or not over to the courts. They are possibly trying to find a way to ignore the referendum results. They have probably been advised by the EU that these populist movements can be given some time to cool down and then can be ignored. It has worked for them multiple times in the past. Times change and we have gone past peak government, this strategy is unlikely to work anymore. If they overturn the referendum results, the silver lining will be the return of Nigel Farage to politics, much to my amusement.
From: li...@googlegroups.com [mailto:li...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Leon Louw (gmail)
Sent: 04 November 2016 07:22 AM
To: Libsa (googlegroups)
#RooiGevaar #RussiansEverywhere #NeoMcCarthyism
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Jaco Strauss
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Leon Louw
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"Money won’t create success, the freedom to make it will."
Nelson Mandela
“But man, proud man,
Dress'd in a little brief authority,
Most ignorant of what he's most assur'd –
His glassy essence—like an angry ape
Plays such fantastic tricks before high heaven
As makes the angels weep."
Shakespeare
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Mark Heaton
@Humphry
Not sure I buy the “new gold backed currency” conspiracy theory ... very little evidence of that.
Just to correct something you stated:
The UK court has required parliament to have a vote on the terms under which they trigger Brexit. And that is being appealed by government. The decision to leave Europe has not been handed to the courts.
From: li...@googlegroups.com [mailto:li...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Humphry Hamilton
Sent: 05 November 2016 10:39 AM
To: li...@googlegroups.com
Humphry Hamilton
Conspiracy theories are like smoke. Often there is fire at the base of the smoke.
I am open to other ideas about why the US has been attacking various Arab countries.
Sorry, you are quite right about Brexit and I think the courts are quite right that the matter must be debated in parliament. It will be an interesting test as to whether they think it is a populist fad or something more significant.
Leon Louw (gmail)
Gavin Weiman
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Leon Louw (gmail)
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Jaco Strauss
Kaapstad
Jaco Strauss
That would unfortunately still leave us with "one of the above" Stephen. I prefer the one that plans to #DrainTheSwamp
Stephen vJ
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Frances Kendall
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Stephen vJ
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Frances Kendall
Haven't you seen how they love poop & horse dung? Trumps fans go crazy for it! Hilary 's voters are hoping it'll only be horse dung without the poop.
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John Pretorius
Yup. This election has brought out the worst in all of us – even Sam Harris.
John R Pretorius
13 Olive Lane, Morningside Sandton 2196, South Africa
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Leon Louw (gmail)
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Leon Louw (gmail)
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Leon Louw (gmail)
- "going forward" and
- "the American people".
Jaco Strauss
Kaapstad
Janette Eldridge
And is “each and every” more or less than “every”
And is there a means test for “the poorest of the poor” as apposed the “poor”
Leon Louw (gmail)
Either way at this point in time each every one of the South African people who are the poorest of the poor will themselves going forward be exploited by white monopoly capital itself.
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Stephen vJ
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Leon Louw (gmail)
Those of us who are libertarians are very clear about the inherent illegitimacy of voting for people whose primary objective is coercion and plunder (multiple departments, agencies, taxes, laws), and whose afterthought is protection from coercion (courts, police, defence).
Elections are like innocent prisoners voting for which of two nominees should be their jailer.
Paul AH Hjul
Leon Louw (gmail)
Phumlani
From: Temba Nolutshungu
Sent: Sunday, November 6, 2016 11:22
To: Carel Steenkamp
The US elections: Sentiments vs Realities
As we await the electoral process determination as to who will emerge triumphantly as the US president, some comments/sentiments both in this country and in America have been quite concerning.
What I initially dismissed as a kneejerk reaction (it soon became apparent that the comment "I don't like Trump or I don't like Clinton") was going to be the basis for their voting decision.
This has been reinforced by Clinton's recent statement that "I have a better temperament..." Trump is also blameworthy for reinforcing this sentiment.
It is quite alarming indeed that there does not seem to be a rigorous investigation of the candidates' policies, especially, and most importantly, the economic policies.
Needless to say, it would be quite ludicrous, if not downright puerile, to vote on the basis of sentiment.
I encountered this sentiment when I had addressed an audience in New York earlier this year and during ad hoc interactions with citizens of the US on both sides of the current electoral divide.
I share with you my general response to this as I have consistently articulated it. It goes like this.
The fundamental question is, of the two candidates, who's policies, explicitly articulated or observed by discerning minds, will result in more people being on the wealth-consuming or alternatively on the wealth-creating side of the equation.
This is an important question to ponder. It is because on the wealth-consuming side, the policies are defined and characterised by more state welfare with able-bodied people looking up to the quasi-socialistic, nanny state (in the SA context, I refer to the concept of a 'boetie' government). This has many negative consequences such as penalising with increased taxation, the more economically productive sectors of the population. The reality of big government is that it impacts on individual liberties.
On the other side of the equation, wealth creation is predicated on allowing as much economic freedom as possible so long as economic activities and transactions do not entail force or fraud. Personal responsibility is an important hallmark of this paradigm. Policies that are thus informed will inevitably unleash the spirit of enterprise.
Axiomatically, this is an important criterion of sound economic policy.
Bearing in mind that at the end of the day for the US to meet its challenges, both domestically and globally, it requires substantial resources.
Those resources will emanate from the economic arena.
This means high economic growth rates. High economic growth rates are a function of economic freedom. Empirical evidence substantiates this argument. To site a few studies in this regard, there is the Economic Freedom of the World study (compiled by the Fraser Institute and over 90 think tanks); Index of Economic Freedom (Heritage Foundation); International Property Rights Index (Hernando de Soto et al.) and the Global Competitive Report (World Economic Forum) among others.
In conclusion, please do not perceive this as an exercise in political/ideological point scoring, but as a humble effort on my part to get us to be more focussed on realities as opposed to sentiments.
After all, the challenges that confront us in our own country South Africa, demand that we focus primarily on economic policies.
Regards to all.
Temba A Nolutshungu
"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty" John Philpot Curran (1750 - 1817
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“Now is the time when men work quietly in the fields and women weep softly in the kitchen; the legislature is in session, and no one’s property is safe.”
Daniel Webster
Jaco Strauss
Trump Supporter’s Truck Torched
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Kaapstad