Difficult to Install

[Sam]

I would like to make a comment. I have used Leo for about a year and I
like the application. I have a new machine and am trying to install
Leo. I find that the installation process is horrible. I would prefer
an installation process like openoffice, firefox, Gimp, etc. where you
download a file and execute it, and usually, in less than a minute you
are working with the application. With Leo I find that I have to
Install Python, then maybe QT, then the Leo zip file, then set paths
and environment variables in order to get it to work. I am not
interested in figuring out how to work with Python. I want that to be
invisible. I have followed the instructions on the install page and
can not get it to work. The error messages pop up and then disappear.

This is really to bad. Leo is a great application and its adaptation
will clearly be hampered by this lack of a easy and reliable
installation process. Clearly Python, Qt, and whatever else is needed
to run Leo should all be packaged and scripted together. This should
be trivial for the engineers working on the project to create a decent
install process that does not require expertise in the underling
technologies. It is not sexy work, but essential if you what Leo to be
used by everyone.

Leo will not see broad based adaptation beyond the Python engineering
community until it is easier to install.

[Matt Wilkie]

A python package manager application ran across my screen yesterday,
on the portable pythomn group. Perhaps it may prove helpful in
building an easier install method for leo (it purports to handle
depencies): http://www.preisshare.net/pythonpkgmgr/

cheers,

--
-matt

[Edward K. Ream]

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 2:32 PM, Sam <sri...@roboway.com> wrote:

Leo will not see broad based adaptation beyond the Python engineering
community until it is easier to install.

> I find that the installation process is horrible.

Thanks for reminding me of this problem.  It's easy to forget, especially when using bzr.

The present lack of Windows installer has a history.  Before bzr, Leo did have a relatively good native installer based on NSIS.  When bzr came around, it became pretty much unbearable to maintain a separate manifest file for use of the installer.  I attempted to hack together something that would use bzr to create a .zip file, and then quite literally append that .zip file to an .exe file in the distutils package.  It kinda worked, but not well enough.

Last night I had an idea: if bzr could create a manifest file automatically, it might be possible to use the old NSIS-based installer again. Just now I don't see how to create a stand-along manifest automatically when exporting.  And I don't see a plugin.  I suspect there is a way, though...

> Leo will not see broad based adaptation beyond the Python engineering community until it is easier to install.

Debatable.  Installing on ubuntu is now a snap with the ubuntu package manager.  On windows, there are two good ways of installing Leo:

- bzr
- downloading the leo folder

True, the file association problem on Windows remains.  But once this is done, using bzr is far better than using a native installer.

Edward

[Terry Brown]

On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:33:18 -0500
"Edward K. Ream" <edre...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Leo will not see broad based adaptation beyond the Python
> > engineering community until it is easier to install.
>

> Debatable. Installing on ubuntu is now a snap with the ubuntu package
> manager. On windows, there are two good ways of installing Leo:
>
> - bzr
> - downloading the leo folder
>
> True, the file association problem on Windows remains. But once this
> is done, using bzr is far better than using a native installer.

I think the complaint was about having to download Python and Qt as
well. If there's a good installer system out there that will bundle
these things I'd like to hear about it. Ok, so the first would be
large, ridiculously so if you were trying to distribute some small
Python / Qt app, but you could always offer multiple versions, and
these days a 20-30 Mb download (guessing) isn't that big a deal.

It seems that in Windows there's a reasonably easy way to install Qt,
but it's also easy to Google up a harder way first, if you're unlucky.

There are lots of large multi-component open source free apps that
offer single file downloads (inkscape / blender / qgis / gimp), leo
should strive to do the same. And again, I really don't think people
will be put off because it's a 20-30+ Mb file.

Cheers -Terry

[Vicent]

Hi,

On 13 Ago, 20:32, Terry Brown <terry_n_br...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> It seems that in Windows there's a reasonably easy way to install Qt,
> but it's also easy to Google up a harder way first, if you're unlucky.
>

The impact of this inconvenient would be nearly removed if users
trying to
install leo on Windows would read the Installing section of the Leo's
documentation:

Installing Qt on Windows¶

For Windows, install PyQt using the binary installer at
http://www.riverbankcomputing.co.uk/software/pyqt/download


The PyQt installer includes Qt and related tools. Installing it on
Windows is
trivial. Installing Python is very easy too.

On the other hand I must admit that
http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/install.html is a little bit
intimidating. But I think that documentation is being rewritten. Maybe
something has already be done regarding that URL.

> There are lots of large multi-component open source free apps that
> offer single file downloads (inkscape / blender / qgis / gimp), leo
> should strive to do the same. And again, I really don't think people
> will be put off because it's a 20-30+ Mb file.
>

I completely disagree. Including everything in the installer is not a
golden
rule. But I think the installers subject is similar to the licensing
software
subject: lots of opinions, all of them valid so there is no a 'right'
solution.
So I don't worry very much about it. I simply let the developers make
their
choice and use it. My only requirement is that the installation
procedure
(whatever it is) works fine :-)

Vicent.

[Ville M. Vainio]

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Vicent<uve...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On the other hand I must admit that
> http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/install.html is a little bit
> intimidating. But I think that documentation is being rewritten. Maybe
> something has already be done regarding that URL.

Yeah, that page is way too long and complicated and needs to be
rewritten (because as such, it's so long people won't read it). For
Linux, we don't really need installation instructions at all these
days ("just install the .deb").

> I completely disagree. Including everything in the installer is not a
> golden
> rule. But I think the installers subject is similar to the licensing
> software
> subject: lots of opinions, all of them valid so there is no a 'right'
> solution.

We could go halfway and provide a single zip file that contains:

- Leo sources
- PyQt installer

--
Ville M. Vainio
http://tinyurl.com/vainio

[Ville M. Vainio]

On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 5:33 PM, Edward K. Ream<edre...@gmail.com> wrote:

> The present lack of Windows installer has a history.  Before bzr, Leo did
> have a relatively good native installer based on NSIS.  When bzr came
> around, it became pretty much unbearable to maintain a separate manifest
> file for use of the installer.  I attempted to hack together something that

Can you use "bzr ls -R" to create the manifest?

[Edward K. Ream]

On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 2:39 PM, Ville M. Vainio <viva...@gmail.com> wrote:

Can you use "bzr ls -R" to create the manifest?

Maybe.   The manifest would be inelegant: listing every individual file rather than, say leo/modes/*.py

Perhaps a manifest-creation script could use the literal manifest as a starting point, or a check.

Edward

[Matt Wilkie]

> The impact of this inconvenient would be nearly removed if users
> trying to install leo on Windows would read the Installing section
> of the Leo's documentation:
>
> Installing Qt on Windows¶

...

I've installed Leo several times on windows, yet this morning still
took me a few minutes to find the section you reference above because
there are at least two other document sections with phrases similar to
"installing leo". Anyway, this is my simplified recipe for a virgin
install:

-------------------------
Installing Leo On Windows
-------------------------
//skip any step not needed//

1. Install Python - There are many sources, but from
http://www.python.org/download/releases/ is good

2. Install PyQt - acquire and run Binary Package from
http://www.riverbankcomputing.co.uk/software/pyqt/download which
matches installed Python version (so for python 2.5 scan for the
"Py2.5" in filename)

3. Install Leo
- Head to http://sourceforge.net/projects/leo/ and slap [Download Now]
- Unpack python *site-packages* folder, e.g.
C:\Python25\Lib\site-packages\leo-4-6-2-final

- [optional] Generate/update a junction link from unpacked
leo-4-6-2-final to ...\site-packages\leo

cd C:\Python25\Lib\site-packages\
junction leo leo-4-6-2-final

- Create windows shortcut (edit paths as necessary):

Target = C:\Python25\pythonw.exe
"C:\Python25\Lib\site-packages\leo\launchLeo.py" --gui=qt
Start in = D:\code

- Associate .leo filetype batch file:

ftype LeoFile=C:\Python25\pythonw.exe
"C:\Python25\Lib\site-packages\leo\launchLeo.py" "--gui=qt" "%1"
assoc .leo=LeoFile

- [optional] Put this leo.bat in %PATH%:

@C:\Python25\python.exe -i
"C:\Python25\Lib\site-packages\leo\launchLeo.py" --gui=qt %*

-------------------------

Further reading / Sources used:

Junction links -
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-gb/sysinternals/bb896768.aspx,
http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor/msg/30116f9193241dc4
FTYPE - http://ss64.com/nt/ftype.html
ASSOC - http://ss64.com/nt/assoc.html

--
-matt

[Ville M. Vainio]

On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 10:49 PM, Matt Wilkie<map...@gmail.com> wrote:

> 3. Install Leo
>   - Head to http://sourceforge.net/projects/leo/ and slap [Download Now]
>   - Unpack python *site-packages* folder, e.g.
> C:\Python25\Lib\site-packages\leo-4-6-2-final

I don't think you need to use site-packages. Just extract it anywhere
you want (e.g. c:/opt/leo). But I could be wrong.

>   - Associate .leo filetype batch file:

>n

>      ftype LeoFile=C:\Python25\pythonw.exe
> "C:\Python25\Lib\site-packages\leo\launchLeo.py" "--gui=qt" "%1"
>      assoc .leo=LeoFile

--gui=qt us not needed anymore.

[Vicent]

Hi,

On 20 Ago, 21:49, Matt Wilkie <map...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ...
>
> I've installed Leo several times on windows, yet this morning still
> took me a few minutes to find the section you reference above because
> there are at least two other document sections with phrases similar to

> "installing leo"...
>

I suppose that it proofs again that some documentation has to be
rewritten.
That's a work in progress and we (users) can report bugs, mistakes,
inconsistencies, etc.

Vicent

[Teres W]

Dear All,

I've following error when execute the batch file as suggested:
-----------------
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "C:\Python31\Lib\site-packages\leo\launchLeo.py", line 7, in
<module>
import leo.core.runLeo
File "C:\Python31\Lib\site-packages\leo\leo\core\runLeo.py", line
35, in <module>
import leo.core.leoGlobals as leoGlobals
File "C:\Python31\Lib\site-packages\leo\leo\core\leoGlobals.py",
line 119
print '** leoGlobals.py: caching disabled'
^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>>>
--------------------
OS: Microsoft Windows 7
Paython installed: 3.1 amd 64
PyQt4 installed
Leo-4-6-3-final

Any suggestion?

Best regards,
Teres

[Ville M. Vainio]

On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 8:08 PM, Teres W <teres...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> I've following error when execute the batch file as suggested:

You have Python 3.1 installed. Please use Python 2.6 for Leo (it's not
yet ported for 3.1)

[Teres W]

Dear All,

Tried to install:
OS: Win Xp x86
Python: 2.5.4
PyQt-Py2.5-gpl-4.4.3-1
Leo-4-6-3-final

Now having the following error:

---
Traceback (most recent call last):

File "C:\Python25\Lib\site-packages\leo\launchLeo.py", line 8, in
<module>
leo.core.runLeo.run(fileName="test")
File "C:\Program Files\Leo-4.6.3-final\leo\core\runLeo.py", line 88,
in run
fn,relFn,script = doPrePluginsInit(fileName,pymacs)
File "C:\Program Files\Leo-4.6.3-final\leo\core\runLeo.py", line
111, in doPre
PluginsInit
initApp(verbose)
File "C:\Program Files\Leo-4.6.3-final\leo\core\runLeo.py", line
234, in initA
pp
g.app.setLeoID(verbose=verbose)
File "C:\Program Files\Leo-4.6.3-final\leo\core\leoApp.py", line
651, in setLe
oID
g.app.createTkGui("startup")
File "C:\Program Files\Leo-4.6.3-final\leo\core\leoApp.py", line
358, in creat
eTkGui
leoPlugins.loadOnePlugin ('tkGui',verbose=verbose)
File "C:\Program Files\Leo-4.6.3-final\leo\core\leoPlugins.py", line
398, in l
oadOnePlugin
verbose = False or verbose or g.app.config.getBool
(c=None,setting='trace_plu
gins')
AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'getBool'
>>>
---
Need a break for hours of testing. Any suggestion?

Best regards,
Teres

On Sep 7, 2:01 am, "Ville M. Vainio" <vivai...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Teres W]

Dear All,

Get Solved with the following combination:
OS: Window XP x86
Python: 2.5.4
PyQt-Py2.5-gpl-4.4.3-1
Leo-4-6-2-final

Actuall, I should try only the version specified in the documentation
mentioned here and not tried new version.

Best regards,
Teres

P.S. I'll try back on Windows 7 x64 and the Python 2.5.4 AMD x64.

> > Ville M. Vainiohttp://tinyurl.com/vainio- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Teres W]

Dear All,

Python 2.5.4 for AMX x64 doesn't work.

Best regards,
Teres

> > > Ville M. Vainiohttp://tinyurl.com/vainio-Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[Edward K. Ream]

On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 12:08 PM, Teres W <teres...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear All,

 File "C:\Python31\Lib\site-packages\leo\leo\core\leoGlobals.py",
line 119
   print '** leoGlobals.py: caching disabled'
                                            ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

Thanks for this report.  As Ville says, this is a Python 3.x issue, but it should be fixed.

Edward

[Edward K. Ream]

On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 1:27 PM, Teres W <teres...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear All,

Tried to install:
OS: Win Xp x86
Python: 2.5.4
PyQt-Py2.5-gpl-4.4.3-1

Leo-4-6-3-final

Now having the following error:

[snip]

 File "C:\Program Files\Leo-4.6.3-final\leo\core\leoApp.py", line
358, in createTkGui

You have qt installed, but you are trying to create the tk gui.  Run Leo with --gui=qt.

Edward

[Ville M. Vainio]

On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 4:38 PM, Edward K. Ream <edre...@gmail.com> wrote:

> You have qt installed, but you are trying to create the tk gui.  Run Leo
> with --gui=qt.

No, that error comes from leoID creation creating the tk gui.

Perhaps we should create only a simple dialog box instead of importing
all of tk ui (with pmw etc),

[Edward K. Ream]

On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Ville M. Vainio <viva...@gmail.com> wrote:

> You have qt installed, but you are trying to create the tk gui.  Run Leo
> with --gui=qt.

No, that error comes from leoID creation creating the tk gui.

Perhaps we should create only a simple dialog box instead of importing
all of tk ui (with pmw etc),

Something like this is important.  To repeat, I don't understand why the problem suddenly got worse, but that's secondary.

EKR