Making Leo look better out of the box

[Edward K. Ream]

I really dropped the ball on this one.  I just added the following as the first item of the distribution checklist in leoDist.leo:

    Make sure Leo looks good without myLeoSettings.leo.

If I am not mistaken, Terry's dark themes use 14 point (18px) font size and Droid Sans Mono, with DejaVu Sans Mono as a backup. Imo, these would make good defaults generally and are *much* better than 12px (*not* pt) size used at present.

My suggestions:

- Use pt for fonts; use px for borders, margins, etc.
- Use 14pt as default for most panes.
- Use 12pt for text in the Find Panel, and for QLabels.
- Use 5px solid blue for the focus border.
  It's always helpful (especially for newbies!) to see at a glace where focus resides.
- Use white, not light pink, for the background of the body pane.

I'd like to have these in the repo asap.

Your comments please.

Edward

[jqui...@gmail.com]

I totally agree. In fact, these were the changes that I immediately made. Especially, the font size was way too small.

[Edward K. Ream]

On Friday, November 8, 2013 6:29:20 AM UTC-6, Edward K. Ream wrote:

 

My suggestions:

- Use pt for fonts; use px for borders, margins, etc.
- Use 14pt as default for most panes.
- Use 12pt for text in the Find Panel, and for QLabels.
- Use 5px solid blue for the focus border.
  It's always helpful (especially for newbies!) to see at a glace where focus resides.
- Use white, not light pink, for the background of the body pane.

These are now on the trunk at rev 6250.  One addition: use 14pt for the status line.

Edward

[Jacob Peck]

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Hi Edward,

The body focus border has never worked for me.  The Log and Outline focus borders work fine, but not the body focus.  No change as of rev 6250.

-->Jake

[Edward K. Ream]

On Friday, November 8, 2013 7:00:44 AM UTC-6, jqui...@gmail.com wrote:

> I totally agree. In fact, these were the changes that I immediately made. Especially, the font size was way too small.

This bad first impression may have turned a lot of people away from Leo right at the start.  Correcting this could make a surprisingly big difference.

I have now disabled @data qt-gui-plugin-style-sheet in myLeoSettings.leo.  The result is that I am now continuously testing the corresponding setting in leoSettings.leo.

Edward

[Edward K. Ream]

On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 7:24 AM, Jacob Peck <gates...@gmail.com> wrote:

​> ​

The body focus border has never worked for me.  The Log and Outline focus borders work fine, but not the body focus.  No change as of rev 6250.

​What platform?  Please show the opening log.

Edward

[Jacob Peck]

--

Windows, both XP and 7, python 2.7.

I don't remember if it works on Linux for me...

Opening log never shows anything unusual, but here it is on a fresh startup on XP (rev 6250):

----
Leo Log Window
Leo 4.11 final, build 6250, 2013-11-08 08:08:22
Python 2.7.3, qt version 4.8.4
Windows 5, 1, 2600, 2, Service Pack 3
leoID=peckj (in C:\Documents and Settings\PeckJ\.leo)
load dir: C:\cygwin\home\PeckJ\repos\leo\leo-editor\leo\core
global config dir: C:\cygwin\home\PeckJ\repos\leo\leo-editor\leo\config
home dir: C:\Documents and Settings\PeckJ
reading settings in C:\cygwin\home\PeckJ\repos\leo\leo-editor\leo\config\leoSettings.leo
docutils loaded
reading settings in C:\Documents and Settings\PeckJ\.leo\myLeoSettings.leo
reading settings in C:\Documents and Settings\PeckJ\.leo\workbook.leo
Abbreviations on
reading: C:\Documents and Settings\PeckJ\.leo\workbook.leo
----

Console shows one additional line at the beginning:

----
** isPython3: False
----

I will say that this isn't anything terribly important to me, but perhaps other users experience it as well.

-->Jake

[Chris George]

On Linux the blue focus highlighting does not exist in any of the windows at start-up. The cursor starts in the body pane.

Clicking into the outline window gives me the blue focus highlighting around the window, but it is persistent, it doesn't go away when I click another window. Clicking into the log pane does the same. Clicking into the body pane gives me nothing at all. If I add an editor, it gets the blue focus line when I click into it and the blue focus line goes away when I click somewhere else.

Leo 4.11 final, build 6250, 2013-11-08 05:57:49

64bit Linux Mint 15

Python 2.7.4

--

[Chris George]

When I mouse over the outline pane I get the focus line and when I mouse away it goes away. Same with the log pane. The persistence only occurs when I click into the window. It goes blue and stays that way until I restart Leo.

The body pane never gets the blue focus line no matter what I do..

Chris

[jqui...@gmail.com]

Even better than this, could you please make some of those settings more accessible? For instance, you could make the font size of the main panes accessible from the menu. From my very limited experience (just a few days), Leo's settings are terribly complicated, and entering into those setting files is like entering into a jungle. It is very discouraging!
I had to post help requests on this forum just for changing the font type and sizes. This does not look right. It is far from user-friendly.
My request concerns only the most commonly used settings, of course.

[jqui...@gmail.com]

Switching between themes should also be made easier, IMO.

[Jacob Peck]

Perhaps something like:

@string body-font-face = DejaVu Sans Mono
@string body-font-size = 14pt
@string log-font-face = DejaVu Sans Mono
@string log-font-size = 14pt
@string outline-font-face = DejaVu Sans Mono
@string outline-font-size = 14pt

Should be handled by the @data qt-gui-plugin-style-sheet parsing code?  That would be awesome, in my opinion -- actually, allowing any '@yoursettinghere' (which searches for either a @color or @string) in qt-gui-plugin-style-sheet would make the stylesheet wayyyy more usable and Leonine.

-->Jake

[Jacob Peck]

On 11/8/2013 10:05 AM, jqui...@gmail.com wrote:
> Switching between themes should also be made easier, IMO.
>

To be fair, the theme code is relatively new. But I completely agree.

-->Jake

[jqui...@gmail.com]

Well, to be even more explicit, I would prefer (as a newbie) not having to do at all with something called @data qt-gui-plugin-style-sheet!! What I mean is that SOME all those highly technical entries in the settings file should be made accessible from the menus in a humanly understandable way.
 

[Terry Brown]

On Fri, 8 Nov 2013 07:12:48 -0800 (PST)

So the simplest would be menu entries which directly solicit font names
and sizes from the user.

But it would take a new pathway to push those into the settings system.

What about menu entries which:

- create myLeoSettings.leo, if needed
- copy the relevant subtree from leoSettings.leo to myLeoSettings.leo,
if needed
- contract everything in myLeoSettings.leo except the relevant parts,
and present those to the user.

So, after selecting the "Font sizes" menu option, the user sees
something like the attached image? Not as simple as a typical piece of
software, but also a gentle nudge into the Leo way of doing things,
that isn't too complicated, so the user can change their font sizes at
least.

As a first step. Then we can see if there's a clear path for
avoiding the restart piece, for example.

Also, using @string and @color settings in the theme machinery is
doable, but not currently done, and needs a little more thought.

Cheers -Terry

[Chris George]

Terry,

I am trying to understand QT Styles as they relate to the focus colour problem.

Currently, the outline pane and the log pane both get the blue focus line when you hover over them. The body pane does not. The outline pane and the log pane both take on the blue focus when clicked into, but never lose it until the session is restarted. The body pane never gets the blue focus line at any point. EXCEPT: Interestingly, when I create an add-editor pane, it has both the desired hover behaviour (blue line) and the desired focus behaviour (blue line until loss of focus, then back to neutral). 

Here is the existing configuration as found in the leoSettings.leo

/* focused pane border highlight */

QTextEdit#log-widget, LeoQTreeWidget#treeWidget, QTextEdit#richTextEdit {

border-style: @focused-border-style;

border-width: @focused-border-width;

border-color: @focused-border-unfocus-color;

}

QTextEdit:focus#log-widget, LeoQTreeWidget:focus#treeWidget, QTextEdit:focus#richTextEdit {

border-style: @focused-border-style;

border-width: @focused-border-width;

border-color: @focused-border-focus-color;

}

And here is what I changed it to to get the blue focus line to "work" in the body pane. It still does nothing for the Outline pane or the Log pane, and it broke the hover highlighting for the outline pane, the log pane and the add-editor "pane". If I wanted to use the @focused* lines to play around, where and how would I define them? And is this experimentation likely to get me any closer to solving for the desired behaviour? ie. Is this a misconfiguration or a bug?

From myLeoSettings.leo

/* focused pane border highlight */

QTextEdit#log-widget, LeoQTreeWidget#treeWidget, QTextEdit#richTextEdit {

border-style: solid;

border-width: 2px;

border-color: white;

}

QTextEdit:focus#log-widget, LeoQTreeWidget:focus#treeWidget, QTextEdit:focus#richTextEdit {

border-style: solid;

border-width: 2px;

border-color: cyan;

}

Chris

[Viktor Ransmayr]

Hello Edward

The out of the box experience for Leo on Windows (8 only?) has deteriorated after that change!

Both the headline, body & log pane is using a font that is (much) to big ...

With kind regards,

Viktor

PS: For analysis I'm providing the latest startup log pane:

<log>

Leo Log Window
Leo 4.11 final, build 6257, 2013-11-10 18:20:52
Python 3.3.2, qt version 4.8.5
Windows 6, 2, 9200, 2,
leoID=VR20130923 (in C:\Users\Viktor\.leo)
load dir: C:\Repositories\bzr\leo-editor\leo\core
global config dir: C:\Repositories\bzr\leo-editor\leo\config
home dir: C:\Users\Viktor
reading settings in C:\Repositories\bzr\leo-editor\leo\config\leoSettings.leo
docutils loaded
reading settings in C:\Users\Viktor\.leo\myLeoSettings.leo
reading settings in C:\Users\Viktor\Worklogs\WL2013.leo
Abbreviations off
reading: C:\Users\Viktor\Worklogs\WL2013.leo

</log>

[Chris George]

Progress.

Adding this to the @data qt-gui-plugin-style-sheet in myLeoSettings.leo adds the desired behaviour to the body pane.

/* body pane border highlight */

LeoQTextBrowser { border: 1px solid white }

LeoQTextBrowser:focus { border: 2px solid cyan }

LeoQTextBrowser:hover { border: 2px solid cyan }

Make sure you remove the following code from your leoSettings.leo file. It appears to have no discernible effect.

/* focused pane border highlight */

QTextEdit#log-widget, LeoQTreeWidget#treeWidget, QTextEdit#richTextEdit { 

  border-style: @focused-border-style;

  border-width: @focused-border-width; 

  border-color: @focused-border-unfocus-color; 

}

QTextEdit:focus#log-widget, LeoQTreeWidget:focus#treeWidget, QTextEdit:focus#richTextEdit { 

  border-style: @focused-border-style;

  border-width: @focused-border-width; 

  border-color: @focused-border-focus-color; 

}

Adding the following line looks promising for the Outline Pane, right up until you click into the pane. I think there is another action (besides :hover and :focus) that is overriding the desired behaviour. And I am still trying to track down the class name for the log pane.

/* tree pane border highlight */

LeoQTreeWidget { border: 1px solid white }

LeoQTreeWidget:focus { border: 2px solid cyan }

LeoQTreeWidget:hover { border: 2px solid cyan }

Chris

[Edward K. Ream]

On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 12:39 PM, Viktor Ransmayr <viktor....@gmail.com> wrote:

My suggestions:

- Use pt for fonts; use px for borders, margins, etc.
- Use 14pt as default for most panes.
- Use 12pt for text in the Find Panel, and for QLabels.
- Use 5px solid blue for the focus border.
  It's always helpful (especially for newbies!) to see at a glace where focus resides.
- Use white, not light pink, for the background of the body pane.

These are now on the trunk at rev 6250.  One addition: use 14pt for the status line.

The out of the box experience for Leo on Windows (8 only?) has deteriorated after that change!

Both the headline, body & log pane is using a font that is (much) to big ...

​Thanks for your feedback.  This may be tricky to resolve.  What settings do you use?

Edward

[Edward K. Ream]

On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 12:02 AM, Chris George <techn...@gmail.com> wrote:

Progress.

Adding this to the @data qt-gui-plugin-style-sheet in myLeoSettings.leo adds the desired behaviour to the body pane.

/* body pane border highlight */

LeoQTextBrowser { border: 1px solid white }

LeoQTextBrowser:focus { border: 2px solid cyan }

LeoQTextBrowser:hover { border: 2px solid cyan }

​Thanks for this.​

 

Make sure you remove the following code from your leoSettings.leo file. It appears to have no discernible effect.

​ [snip]

Maybe not a good idea.  If I am not mistaken, settings starting with @ are used (somehow) by Terry's settings code.  Let's see what Terry has to say...

Edward

[Terry Brown]

On Sun, 10 Nov 2013 22:02:42 -0800 (PST)
Chris George <techn...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Progress.
>
> Adding this to the @data qt-gui-plugin-style-sheet in myLeoSettings.leo
> adds the desired behaviour to the body pane.
>
> /* body pane border highlight */
>
> LeoQTextBrowser { border: 1px solid white }
>
> LeoQTextBrowser:focus { border: 2px solid cyan }
>
> LeoQTextBrowser:hover { border: 2px solid cyan }
>
>
> Make sure you remove the following code from your leoSettings.leo file. It
> appears to have no discernible effect.
>
> /* focused pane border highlight */
>
> QTextEdit#log-widget, LeoQTreeWidget#treeWidget, QTextEdit#richTextEdit {
>
> border-style: @focused-border-style;

Check the end of the node .../@settings-->leo_dark theme 0 settings
TNB-->stylesheet & source-->config

@focused-border-style = none
@focused-border-width = 3px
@focused-border-focus-color = cyan
@focused-border-unfocus-color = white

none -> solid to enable them, off be default.

The deal with `@data qt-gui-plugin-style-sheet` (DQGPSS) and themes is
that all DQGPSS are processed by the theme machinery which handles
replacement of @identifiers. The difference between the default
theme's DQGPSS and those of the two dark themes in leoSettings.leo is
that the default themes DQGPSS is a simple @data node you have to edit
yourself, a long piece of text which doesn't seem particularly
Leonine. Whereas the dark theme's DQGPSSs are generated from a tree of
information under the .../@settings-->leo_dark theme 0 settings
TNB-->stylesheet & source node, which has to be re-run to re-generate
the new DQGPSS, disabling the old by prepending '@'.

I think the instructions starting from the top leoSettings.leo Themes
node guide you that way, but there's probably confusion arising from
other info. on just editing the DQGPSS directly, which is what you have
to do for the default theme.

Also, Chris, the previous non-stylesheet border drawing code is still
active, I think, back when the themes came out there was concern over
changed behaviors and although I think the theme based approach matched
the drawing code after some config. updating, leaving the drawing code
active and @focused-border-style = none might have seemed like the
simplest way forward. So Leo is probably doing widget manipulation to
draw borders separate from the stylesheet machinery.

Cheers -Terry

[Chris George]

I restored those entries to leoSetting.leo.

When I open myLeoSettings.leo, the outline pane has the focus. The interesting part is that in this state the new setting I created for the LeoQTreeWidget actually works. The pane has the 2px cyan focus line and retains it until I click into a different window. Forever after in this session that window does not respond to hover and on focus it takes on a 1px red line. The log pane shares the 1px red line on focus and also loses the hover behaviour on first focus.

Chris

[Terry Brown]

On Mon, 11 Nov 2013 08:08:43 -0800 (PST)
Chris George <techn...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I restored those entries to leoSetting.leo.
>
> When I open myLeoSettings.leo, the outline pane has the focus. The
> interesting part is that in this state the new setting I created for the LeoQTreeWidget
> actually works. The pane has the 2px cyan focus line and retains it until I
> click into a different window. Forever after in this session that window
> does not respond to hover and on focus it takes on a 1px red line. The log
> pane shares the 1px red line on focus and also loses the hover behaviour on
> first focus.

I guess I'm confused now - I thought the old focus drawing with widgets
code was still active, but
leoSettings.leo#Candidates for setting in myLeoSettings.leo-->Appearance-->Focus border settings
implies it isn't - anyway, hopefully your explorations will be more
productive now you know there is the possibility of focus drawing with
widgets and that @focused-border-style matters, whether in the @config
node of the dark themes or perhaps in the text of the default theme's
@data qt-gui-plugin-style-sheet

Cheers -Terry

> Chris
>
> On Monday, November 11, 2013 3:37:14 AM UTC-8, Edward K. Ream wrote:
> >

> > On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 12:02 AM, Chris George <techn...@gmail.com<javascript:>

[Viktor Ransmayr]

Hello Edward,

The only font-related setting in the 'myLeoSettings' outline is "@font url font" - It has the following content:

url_font_family = DejaVu Sans Mono
url_font_size = 10
url_font_slant = None
url_font_weight = bold

HTH.

With kind regards,

Viktor

[Chris George]

Hi Terry,

It seems that the Command/Insert states colouring takes over after the initial correct behaviour enabled by the widget styles.

For example: On start-up I can hover over the outline pane or the log pane and I get the desired effect. Once I click into the pane and give it focus though, it loses the style and goes with the Command/Insert state colouring (a 1px red line or 1px grey line) and never takes on the proper focus colouring. It also loses the hover behaviour as well.

Changing the styling on the widgets won't fix the problem. 

Without the changed style for the body pane, it gets ignored and simply stays inert.

I am going back to the qtGui.py for some more investigating.

Chris

[Matt Wilkie]

On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 10:39 AM, Viktor Ransmayr <viktor....@gmail.com> wrote:

The out of the box experience for Leo on Windows (8 only?) has deteriorated after that change!

Both the headline, body & log pane is using a font that is (much) to big ...

Same here, Win7. myLeoSettings.leo only has 2 nodes "@settings --> @enabled-plugins", no theme or font stuff.

Curiously, adding a single headline named "@data qt-gui-plugin-style-sheet" with NO content and restarting caused the outline pane font to revert to a smaller size, while continuing to show log pane and body text in much oversized font. see attached.

Bzr says I'm on rev 6276, while Leo says build 6240.

QQQ
Leo Log Window
Leo 4.11 final, build 6240, 2013-11-06
Python 2.7.4, qt version 4.7.1
Windows 6, 1, 7601, 2, Service Pack 1
Abbreviations off
reading: C:\Users\Matt\Dropbox\.leo\myLeoSettings.leo

QQQ

QQQ
Run command: bzr version-info

revision-id: edre...@gmail.com-20131112032745-etles5havl17l8t1

date: 2013-11-11 21:27:45 -0600

build-date: 2013-11-12 00:36:23 -0800

revno: 6276

branch-nick: trunk

QQQ

[Terry Brown]

On Tue, 12 Nov 2013 00:37:35 -0800
Matt Wilkie <map...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 10:39 AM, Viktor Ransmayr <viktor....@gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
> > The out of the box experience for Leo on Windows (8 only?) has
> > deteriorated after that change!
> >
> > Both the headline, body & log pane is using a font that is (much) to big
> > ...
> >
>
> Same here, Win7. myLeoSettings.leo only has 2 nodes "@settings -->
> @enabled-plugins", no theme or font stuff.
>
> Curiously, adding a single headline named "@data qt-gui-plugin-style-sheet"
> with NO content and restarting caused the outline pane font to revert to a
> smaller size, while continuing to show log pane and body text in much
> oversized font. see attached.

I think there's a mixture of styling with the stylesheet, and styling
things directly at the widget code level, and we should probably be
trying to eliminate the latter. So a blank @data
qt-gui-plugin-style-sheet sets all stylesheet derived visuals to system
default, but doesn't impact direct widget @settings / set<X>() calls.

Cheers -Terry

[Terry Brown]

On Mon, 11 Nov 2013 08:48:46 -0800 (PST)
Chris George <techn...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Terry,
>
> I am not sure where to look next.

I personally don't use any of this border highlighting, so I'm not an
authority on what it's supposed to do.

But I think the best way forward would be to find and disable all the
widget styling that's done directly, I suspect it's half disabled and
half not at this point. Then I think the single top level stylesheet
approach will probably work as you expect.

The test will be making it work to Edward's satisfaction, seeing he
actually uses it - I think he'd very vim focused at the moment, so he
may not notice this email, but I'm sure he'll notice if his border
highlighting changes :-)

Do you, Chris, use bzr, in that if I pushed a new branch to launchpad
with the direct widget styling/drawing disabled you could pull the
branch and use it as the basis for fixing up the single top level
stylesheet based border highlighting? That would avoid distressing
others while we fiddle.

Cheers -Terry

> It seems that the desired behaviour would be along the lines of the
> following:
>
> The pane that has the focus should have the Qt box model border style
> associated with :focus. The same behaviour should be available for :hover.
> This is currently the case with the body pane if the widget style I created
> is in use. Without it, the body pane simply does not exhibit :hover or
> :focus. The outline pane (LeoQTreeWidget) appears to have different
> behaviours attached to it somewhere in the code as it responds to styling
> initially, but then does something else once clicked into. Both the outline
> pane and the log pane behave identically. They both respond to
> :hover initially but lose this behaviour on taking focus for the rest of
> the session. The focus styling for both is a 1px red border.
>
> In contrast, even without the body pane style in play, add-editor windows
> display the desired behaviour. They :hover, they display the focus line
> when they should and they gracefully relinquish it as well. Why this should
> be is a clue to the mystery.
>
> So far I know that a LeoQTextBrowser style works on the body pane. LeoQTreeWidget
> works on the outline pane until it takes the focus then it goes away for
> the rest of the session. I do not know what widget to style for the log
> pane. It would be helpful to know so I could examine the three for
> similarities and differences in how they are treated in qtGui.py and the
> leoSettings.leo file.
>
> Chris
>

> On Monday, November 11, 2013 8:18:39 AM UTC-8, Terry wrote:
> >

[Chris George]

Hi Terry,

I do use bzr to pull a fresh copy of Leo every morning. Currently trunk 3 it looks like. I just followed the directions to get the bleeding edge version.

If you give me the bzr command, I will pull a test copy into a different directory for testing.

Chris

[Matt Wilkie]

> > Both the headline, body & log pane is using a font that is (much) to big
>

> Same here, Win7. myLeoSettings.leo only has 2 nodes "@settings -->
> @enabled-plugins", no theme or font stuff.

I managed to get reasonable sizes again by opening LeoSettings.leo, Copy Node on "@data qt-gui-plugin-style-sheet", pasting that under myLeoSettings.leo @settings, search and replace all 14pt and 12pt to 10pt and restarting.

Not sure why 14pt-in-Leo shows so much larger than 14pt-in-others on my computers, but there you are. Maybe because I don't have the Deja Vu font?

-matt

[gatesphere]

Edward, the way I'm seeing all these complaints about font sizes out of the box makes me think that the defaults should be shrunk down to 12 pt...

-->Jake

[Edward K. Ream]

On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 5:39 PM, gatesphere <gates...@gmail.com> wrote:

On 11/12/2013 6:36 PM, Matt Wilkie wrote:

 

Edward, the way I'm seeing all these complaints about font sizes out of the box makes me think that the defaults should be shrunk down to 12 pt...

​I agree.

Edward

[Edward K. Ream]

On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 5:36 PM, Matt Wilkie <map...@gmail.com> wrote:

Not sure why 14pt-in-Leo shows so much larger than 14pt-in-others on my computers, but there you are. Maybe because I don't have the Deja Vu font?

​Ah.  I never thought of that.  I've been concerned about the big differences in out-of-the-box experience.

I just temporarily removed the Deja Vu fonts from my Windows machine, and the font size of the substituted font looks *smaller*.

Would you be willing to install Deja Vu as a test and report your experience? You can delete it later if you like.

Edward

[Jacob Peck]

Pushed, rev 6286.

-->Jake

[Edward K. Ream]

On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 7:57 AM, Jacob Peck <gates...@gmail.com> wrote:

 

Pushed, rev 6286.

​Thanks.  I have it and it works as expected.

The only downside (for me) is that now I won't be able to continually monitor the @data qt-gui-plugin-style-sheet leoSettings.leo​.  That is, if I want the larger fonts (important for these old eyes) I'll have to use my own copy of @data qt-gui-plugin-style-sheet in myLeoSettings.leo.

Oh well, that can't be helped.

I announced Leo 4.11 final more widely yesterday.  So far there are less than 200 downloads.  No complaints yet about this issue...

I'm thinking that 4.11.1 will happen within a month.  When that happens we will want to ensure that the present smaller fonts are used, and that Leo works without myLeoSettings.leo being present.

Edward

[Matt Wilkie]

Would you be willing to install Deja Vu as a test and report your experience? You can delete it later if you like.

I installed dejavu font set (from http://dejavu-fonts.org/wiki/Download), disabled myLeoSettings.leo @data qt-..., and restarted: fonts too big. So whatever is going on isn't about unavailable fonts.

I have a machine I'm testing a new install method on (using "chocolatey"), which has never seen python or qt or leo (or myself) before. I'll report back what I encounter there; might be a few days.

-matt

[Viktor Ransmayr]

Hello everyone,

Thanks for this reversion of the initial change.

A quick feedback: On Windows (8.x) this is an improvement - but - still does not re-establish the 'old/ original' experience.

The reason why I might 'complain (a bit) more than others is that I do most of my work on a 'smaller' laptop screen ...

With kind regards,

Viktor

[Jacob Peck]

FWIW, it was not intended to revert to the "original" experience.  The fonts are still larger than they used to be (IMHO, too large).

To get back to laptop usage, you can copy "@data qt-gui-plugin-style-sheet" to myLeoSettings.leo, and change every instance of '12pt' in that node to '10pt' or smaller.

-->Jake

[Viktor Ransmayr]

Hello Jake,

Will do. - Thanks for your quick response!

With kind regards,

Viktor