Leo as PIM and authoring tool
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Josef
Jul 30, 2012, 5:44:46 AM7/30/12
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Recently I evaluated docear - a mind-mapping tool for collecting reference data (written in Java). It automatically extracts bookmarks and annotations from PDF files, and more, but it's support for authoring is still not up to the task. I think it would be great if Leo could do some of the tasks docear is doing.
Leo is primarily a literate programming editor, but also quite good at organizing bits of information. Dragging a PDF into Leo currently just creates an url to the PDF. This could be expanded to also extract data (bookmarks, notes) from the PDF and to sync this data between Leo and the PDF. This info could be placed in child nodes: bookmarks and notes could even jump directly to the page in the PDF (although each PDF viewer seems to have a different syntax for doing that). This would be a great way to organize data sheets and specifications stemming from external sources.
Combining the above with an improved LaTeX support, one would get a very powerful research and authoring tool - in my opinion with a much more convenient interface than docear.
Perhaps it is too much work to duplicate all the work docear is doing. An alternative may be to sync data somehow between docear and Leo. Docear stores the data in a freeplane mind-map. Has anyone else thoughts about this?
Leo is primarily a literate programming editor, but also quite good at organizing bits of information. Dragging a PDF into Leo currently just creates an url to the PDF. This could be expanded to also extract data (bookmarks, notes) from the PDF and to sync this data between Leo and the PDF. This info could be placed in child nodes: bookmarks and notes could even jump directly to the page in the PDF (although each PDF viewer seems to have a different syntax for doing that). This would be a great way to organize data sheets and specifications stemming from external sources.
Combining the above with an improved LaTeX support, one would get a very powerful research and authoring tool - in my opinion with a much more convenient interface than docear.
Perhaps it is too much work to duplicate all the work docear is doing. An alternative may be to sync data somehow between docear and Leo. Docear stores the data in a freeplane mind-map. Has anyone else thoughts about this?
Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas
Jul 30, 2012, 10:16:15 AM7/30/12
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Hi,
I have been using Leo to write my thesis. I didn't know about Docear,
but my use was in some sense similar. I have a lot of @url links
pointint to the pdfs files and in a subtree I cut and paste the text of
the pdf I want to comment and made the comments inside the tree. These
pdf were part of my bibliographic entries and I'm now writing a .bib
file for these, so I can have in only one Leo tree all my thesis, with
all the references to external files and the annotations and bibtex
entries for them. For me the key point of Leo in academic writing is the
tree view plus the clones and ignore nodes. My thesis can have several
layers, the external ones being the actual writing and the deeper ones
the references, texts, images, tools that enable me to do that writing.
Using clones and @rst-no-head directives I can have the level of
granularity of a paragraph, something that is not possible on
traditional word processor which are the writing tool of tools like
docear. This approach have some glitches:
* I still need to do some fine tunning to the LaTeX export for writing
the pdf as I want. I imagine that putting sphinx in the tool chain could
change that.
* I can not get much people of my companions using this advangages,
besides of myself, because of the difficult installation process of Leo
in Windows/Mac and the not so friendly interface for non-programmers.
Other light markup structured text writing programs like Nested[1] are
more easily used and understood despite of not having all the advantages
and flexibility of Leo.
So, in resume, may be the better approach is connecting Leo to Docear,
so you can have the advantages of both in terms of easy multiplataform
installation and friendly interface of the later and programmability,
flexibility and deeper organic structure of the former.
Cheers,
Offray
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I have been using Leo to write my thesis. I didn't know about Docear,
but my use was in some sense similar. I have a lot of @url links
pointint to the pdfs files and in a subtree I cut and paste the text of
the pdf I want to comment and made the comments inside the tree. These
pdf were part of my bibliographic entries and I'm now writing a .bib
file for these, so I can have in only one Leo tree all my thesis, with
all the references to external files and the annotations and bibtex
entries for them. For me the key point of Leo in academic writing is the
tree view plus the clones and ignore nodes. My thesis can have several
layers, the external ones being the actual writing and the deeper ones
the references, texts, images, tools that enable me to do that writing.
Using clones and @rst-no-head directives I can have the level of
granularity of a paragraph, something that is not possible on
traditional word processor which are the writing tool of tools like
docear. This approach have some glitches:
* I still need to do some fine tunning to the LaTeX export for writing
the pdf as I want. I imagine that putting sphinx in the tool chain could
change that.
* I can not get much people of my companions using this advangages,
besides of myself, because of the difficult installation process of Leo
in Windows/Mac and the not so friendly interface for non-programmers.
Other light markup structured text writing programs like Nested[1] are
more easily used and understood despite of not having all the advantages
and flexibility of Leo.
So, in resume, may be the better approach is connecting Leo to Docear,
so you can have the advantages of both in terms of easy multiplataform
installation and friendly interface of the later and programmability,
flexibility and deeper organic structure of the former.
Cheers,
Offray
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Terry Brown
Jul 30, 2012, 10:38:24 AM7/30/12
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On Mon, 30 Jul 2012 02:44:46 -0700 (PDT)
Josef <joe...@gmx.net> wrote:
> Recently I evaluated docear - a mind-mapping tool for collecting reference
> data (written in Java). It automatically extracts bookmarks and annotations
> from PDF files, and more, but it's support for authoring is still not up to
> the task. I think it would be great if Leo could do some of the tasks
> docear is doing.
>
> Leo is primarily a literate programming editor, but also quite good at
> organizing bits of information.
I would describe it as an general purpose outline that's very good at
Josef <joe...@gmx.net> wrote:
> Recently I evaluated docear - a mind-mapping tool for collecting reference
> data (written in Java). It automatically extracts bookmarks and annotations
> from PDF files, and more, but it's support for authoring is still not up to
> the task. I think it would be great if Leo could do some of the tasks
> docear is doing.
>
> Leo is primarily a literate programming editor, but also quite good at
> organizing bits of information.
editing code.
> Dragging a PDF into Leo currently just
> creates an url to the PDF. This could be expanded to also extract data
> (bookmarks, notes) from the PDF and to sync this data between Leo and the
> PDF. This info could be placed in child nodes: bookmarks and notes could
> even jump directly to the page in the PDF (although each PDF viewer seems
> to have a different syntax for doing that). This would be a great way to
> organize data sheets and specifications stemming from external sources.
is also capability for using Leo to manage bookmarks to web pages, with
notes, tags, and snippets. Look at the mod_http plugin. It uses a
javascript bookmark button in your browser to communicate with Leo.
> Combining the above with an improved LaTeX support, one would get a very
> powerful research and authoring tool - in my opinion with a much more
> convenient interface than docear.
>
> Perhaps it is too much work to duplicate all the work docear is doing. An
> alternative may be to sync data somehow between docear and Leo. Docear
> stores the data in a freeplane mind-map. Has anyone else thoughts about
> this?
the PDF stuff could be integrated with some sort of BibTeX .bib file
management?
Do you really need the mindmap UI of docear? I used to use Freemind
which has a very similar interface, but switched to Leo. I like what
http://cmap.ihmc.us/ does, but it only does idea organization, no
authoring etc. To me cmaptools is better at idea organizing than
mindmaps.
There is also the backlinks plugin for Leo, which allows arbitrary
networks of links instead of just the directed tree, and graphcanvas,
which allows graph layout of nodes. There aren't comparable with the
mindmap layouts, but they head in that direction. Also note Leo's
hidden UI flexibility in the context menus on the pane dividers, you
can open a new window for the graphcanvas plugin, which gives it much
needed screen real estate.
Cheers -Terry
Josef
Jul 30, 2012, 12:19:18 PM7/30/12
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Hi Terry,
no, I do not need the mindmap stuff at all. I had a look at short look at cmaptools, and I agree the generalized graph approach seems better than a standard mindmap. But I am quite happy with the tree view in Leo and as you already mentioned, this can be extended with backlinks etc.
I have used Leo already to organize reference documents and write documentation (using Latex).
What I do want is links to a particular page of a PDF - links to just a file are not enough when you refer to documents with 100+ pages. Unfortunately this seems to be difficult to achieve in a cross-platform way, particular when trying to support different PDF viewers. Docear is solving this (and other compatibility problems) by developing its own integrated viewer (I do not suggest to do this for Leo).
On second thought, I don't think that extracting the bookmark and annotation info is really important to me - I would keep that info in the PDF, anyhow. I would write inside Leo addional notes, and the output text (in Latex).
Some integration of Bibtex may be a good thing and needs to be thought out - perhaps by using JabRef for this, or by recycling some pyBibliographer code, but this is also low on my priority list.
Offray seems to have a very similar use case as I - although I do not write a thesis, but specifications for scientific instruments. The point about cross-platform installation ease is also well taken, so I will look into some inter-operability here (either with docear or cmaptools). I see Leo mainly as a personal project / information manager: the leo tree is not easily shared with others, while the files Leo points to with @url, @auto, @file etc can be shared quite easily. In this I use Leo as *my personal* view on the project.
- Josef
- Josef
no, I do not need the mindmap stuff at all. I had a look at short look at cmaptools, and I agree the generalized graph approach seems better than a standard mindmap. But I am quite happy with the tree view in Leo and as you already mentioned, this can be extended with backlinks etc.
I have used Leo already to organize reference documents and write documentation (using Latex).
What I do want is links to a particular page of a PDF - links to just a file are not enough when you refer to documents with 100+ pages. Unfortunately this seems to be difficult to achieve in a cross-platform way, particular when trying to support different PDF viewers. Docear is solving this (and other compatibility problems) by developing its own integrated viewer (I do not suggest to do this for Leo).
On second thought, I don't think that extracting the bookmark and annotation info is really important to me - I would keep that info in the PDF, anyhow. I would write inside Leo addional notes, and the output text (in Latex).
Some integration of Bibtex may be a good thing and needs to be thought out - perhaps by using JabRef for this, or by recycling some pyBibliographer code, but this is also low on my priority list.
Offray seems to have a very similar use case as I - although I do not write a thesis, but specifications for scientific instruments. The point about cross-platform installation ease is also well taken, so I will look into some inter-operability here (either with docear or cmaptools). I see Leo mainly as a personal project / information manager: the leo tree is not easily shared with others, while the files Leo points to with @url, @auto, @file etc can be shared quite easily. In this I use Leo as *my personal* view on the project.
- Josef
- Josef
Ville Vainio
Jul 30, 2012, 2:08:23 PM7/30/12
to leo-e...@googlegroups.com, Josef
It seems that e.g. w/ foxit reader, you can open selected page from command line (-n 123). Abstracting this for other pdf readers that support such a thing should be no problem.
Sent from my Windows 8 PC
- Josef
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Josef
Aug 1, 2012, 11:44:24 AM8/1/12
to leo-e...@googlegroups.com, Josef
On Monday, July 30, 2012 8:08:23 PM UTC+2, Ville M. Vainio wrote:
It seems that e.g. w/ foxit reader, you can open selected page from command line (-n 123). Abstracting this for other pdf readers that support such a thing should be no problem.
Yes, I suppose one could translate from a canonical representation inside Leo to whatever the tool needs (using @setting). Ideally, one would even have a choice between opening the new page in a different or in the same PDF viewer instance as the last page, but few viewers support that (Okular does - but I don't know any cross-platform solution).
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