Proposal: logo/branding update

[Alex Silcock]

As we're beginning the process of moving to the new space, we'll be wanting to create new signage and increase our efforts to advertise the Hackspace. It feels like a good opportunity to improve the consistency of our logo and branding, to tie into the greater aesthetic effort that we're putting into the new space.

A good starting place would be to pick a consistent font to use with the logo. To this end, I've drawn up a couple of different variants for our logo using our existing H and colour - see attached. The font used is Cairo, a free open-source font from Google Fonts.

It would also be a good idea to get consensus on how we spell our name - in my opinion we should standardise on "Leeds Hackspace", but I've also seen "Leeds Hack Space" and "Leeds HackSpace".

These might seem like minor issues but I think a more consistent appearance can only make us appear more professional.

If we think it's a good idea to standardise, and decide on a preferred logo variant (my preference is variant 1), then I'll save high-quality versions of the logo in various formats for ease of use, and write up some simple logo/branding guidelines to use for our public-facing materials.

Thoughts?

Alex

[Christopher Stanton]

I like variant one and keeping it to 'Hackspace'

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[tmp...@gmail.com]

Likewise :)

[Onlyhalfdone]

I propose we change the name to Leeds maker space... Not popular I'm sure but it's less geeky / linked to computer hacking. I would like this polled at the next quarterly general meeting we never get round having. If not I'll be tabling it at the next AGM.

But I like option 1 also

[Samwise Wilson]

Gj Alex this was a long time comming. Is the proposed font online like open sans? I have come to love the H glyph but we do need a separate body font. What did I use on the new site header?

I would just suggest that certain situations invoke the name in all caps or sub caps.

I must admit I describe the hackspace to everyone as a makerspace. They then immediately get it so maybe this is the more understood term - worth polling as we grow.

[Samwise Wilson]

Typical me didn't see it was cario!

[Onlyhalfdone]

Don't get me wrong I prefer Hackspace but it's always worried me about the confusion between computer hacking. Perhaps it's not a problem, I mean membership is on the up, we've a more diverse mix of cultures and sexes. I would be particular interested in hearing from new members thoughts.

I can't remember who suggested it but I liked the idea of the building itself being the hackspace but the group of people being the maker space... Stanto was it your suggestion? I remember Martyn being present but I'm sure it wasn't his suggestion.

Keep up the good work everyone

[Marc Jennings]

I think "maker space" is a more accurate representation of the opportunities available in the space.  As has been pointed out, "Hackspace" has connotations that may put some folks off, but that's just a gut feeling.

[Stanto]

Sounds familiar, and it's how I've phrased it when marketing Leeds Hackspace across social media, which has worked well, because you hit on the SEO value of the different terms.

We've certainly gained interest on the company based upon both makerspace and hack(er)space, because they're both used to refer to it both by ourselves and also different groups which the company's appealed to over the years.

[Michael W]

Makerspace. It's more universal and inclusive.

[Daniel Fligg]

I'm not going to comment on hacker vs maker, but I prefer to camelcase and use HackSpace...

On 27 Jun 2016 16:30, "Michael W" <mvw...@gmail.com> wrote:

Makerspace. It's more universal and inclusive.

[Aidan Dunbar]

Hackspace and Space when shortened.

[Jon Stockill]

On 27.06.2016 16:30, Michael W wrote:
> Makerspace. It's more universal and inclusive.

Its a Hackspace - that's why there's an H over the door:

http://photos.wf1.net/Geekery/Building%20Leeds%20Hackspace%203.0/2016-06-25%20Installing%20the%20H/

;-)

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li...@stockill.net

[Callum Snowden (Snowdenator)]

The first variant looks better imo, looks cleaner.

C

[Tom Oldbury (Email #1)]

+1 to variant one, but would be happy with either.

[Phil Hutchinson]

variant one. and CORN FLOWER BLUE

[Alex Silcock]

Thanks for all of your input. Seems fairly conclusive that variant 1 is the most popular.

Hackspace vs Makerspace is clearly divisive - roughly the same number of people are in favour of both sides. This article might be some food for thought - it talks a bit about the history of both of the names: http://makezine.com/2013/05/22/the-difference-between-hackerspaces-makerspaces-techshops-and-fablabs/. The gist of it seems to be that the name "hackerspace" was originally used to describe places that were focussed on computers and electronics, particularly on modifying things to do more than they were originally intended. "Makerspaces" seem to be a newer idea, but they seem more focussed around all kinds of "making" with less of a focus on repurposing existing things. I don't have a strong opinion, but "Makerspace" feels closer to what we do at our space.

It's worth noting that if we were to rename ourselves to Makerspace, we'd need to replace our circular Hackspace H with something else. There doesn't seem to be any conventional symbol for Makerspaces in the way that our H is used by a number of Hackspaces, so we'd have to come up with something new.

It's worth us deciding this now, and soon, before we get too far into works on the new space. I'm not sure what the best way to move forward is - directors, any ideas?

Alex

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[Alex Silcock]

Also, we couldn't use cornflower blue - Preston Hackspace are already using it: http://prestonhackspace.org.uk/content/images/2015/09/PrestonHackspaceSquare.png

[Tom Oldbury (Email #2)]

Nottingham and London are both hackspaces and seem to have little difficulty attracting "makers", as well as your typical hardware hacker.

Myself, we should keep the name but make clear that we go beyond just a bunch of nerds hacking about with computers and soldering irons (sorry, I'm not helping with that misconception...)

[stethe...@googlemail.com]

I think makerspace is more markable to people outside of the know. I think unfortunately anything "hacker" has certain image with the general public

[Samwise Wilson]

We SEO well for both terms. I think we will struggle to replace the H with a similar quality mark using a M.

Maybe we can just ensure that we use both when given opportunity. E.g. "Leeds Hackspace, a place to make in Leeds". Or "Leeds Hackspace, a makerspace in Leeds." - this is certainly how I arranged the new website and reflects that naming the Hackspace chronologically came along first and then we offer maker (relatively new term) stuff too.

It certainly helps that most sites with lists of UK orgs bundle both maker and hacker spaces into one list meaning the inbound searches are pretty intelligent.

[Stanto]

Nav also had/has leedsmakerspace.org.uk pointing to our website if I recall correctly.

[Matt Dyson (CuppaMatt)]

I've always preferred "Makerspace" over "Hackspace" mainly because it's a much easier term to explain to people & I'd say at least 2/3 of the time I speak to someone who isn't already aware of the scene for the first time I have to explain that it's "Not Computer Hacking" and "Yes I think it's a silly name too" and I've honestly started saying that I'm going to the "Makerspace" to other people anyway just to avoid that. 

I understand the history and that people dislike change but really from a "making it an open and inviting place that's easy to market" point of view then "Makerspace" wins hands down. 

[Phil Hutchinson]

I still do believe makerspace for that exact reason. No I'm not a computer hacker. No it's a creative place. Not a place for cyber criminals

On 19 Jul 2016 11:53 a.m., "Matt Dyson (CuppaMatt)" <keo...@gmail.com> wrote:

I've always preferred "Makerspace" over "Hackspace" mainly because it's a much easier term to explain to people & I'd say at least 2/3 of the time I speak to someone who isn't already aware of the scene for the first time I have to explain that it's "Not Computer Hacking" and "Yes I think it's a silly name too" and I've honestly started saying that I'm going to the "Makerspace" to other people anyway just to avoid that. 

I understand the history and that people dislike change but really from a "making it an open and inviting place that's easy to market" point of view then "Makerspace" wins hands down. 

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[Christopher Stanton]

It's interesting because I've had a different experience where people do not associate a hackspace with computer hacking. The majority of people I've met don't even know what a makerspace is either.

However I think there are two distinct issues here. One is the branding of the business which is Leeds Hackspace which has its own merits and benefits, and another is the identity of the business.

People have said here and other places, for example:

"I'm a part of a makerspace"

"oh, what's it called?"

"Leeds Hackspace"

You're then contextualising and defining what Hackspace means, and you're not excluding those whom are the more electronics and computer using types that see it's called Hackspace.

There are usually guidelines for this kind of thing where you introduce what a business or group is like, and a public relations and marketing types would tend to handle this.

Aside from a little scuffle on explaining what a Hackspace or a Makerspace is I've not heard anyone say "I didn't go along because I thought it was <x>" (but it was actually <y>).

What I'm picking up from a lot in this thread is more "I've had to explain to people what we do/are" and I think that's going to happen regardless. There will likely be people whom the inverse occurs:

"I'm a part of a makerspace"

"Is that like a hackspace? I've heard of those things"

"Yes"

Which has happened to me also. We are also victims of these terms still gaining traction and whom owns those terms and what they mean.

We shouldn't stick to just one, and we shouldn't discredit both. I think the decision should ultimately follow what the Directors decide and what was down as the description for the business where it was defined. If we're changing that, then we're changing what the group is, its identity and potentially its purpose and that may lose some people but gain others if not done carefully.

On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 11:53 AM, Matt Dyson (CuppaMatt) <keo...@gmail.com> wrote:

I've always preferred "Makerspace" over "Hackspace" mainly because it's a much easier term to explain to people & I'd say at least 2/3 of the time I speak to someone who isn't already aware of the scene for the first time I have to explain that it's "Not Computer Hacking" and "Yes I think it's a silly name too" and I've honestly started saying that I'm going to the "Makerspace" to other people anyway just to avoid that. 

I understand the history and that people dislike change but really from a "making it an open and inviting place that's easy to market" point of view then "Makerspace" wins hands down. 

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[Matt Dyson (CuppaMatt)]

> Aside from a little scuffle on explaining what a Hackspace or a Makerspace is I've not heard anyone say "I didn't go along because I thought it was <x>" (but it was actually <y>).

I think the issue is more the people that see the term "Hackspace" and don't see it as anything they may be interested in and simply overlook it and never even try and find out any more info. 

That's why I like "Makerspace" it sounds more inviting to all and doesn't exclude any of the activities that fall under the term "Hackspace" either so it just seems a win-win. 

I'm fine going by whatever the directors go with no matter which way they go I just think we may be missing out on the odd person here & there through branding.

[Stanto]

Unfortunately there will always be the dark or ghost audience that we never hear from, we cannot appease or please everyone.

What I can say with certainty, is that for the past 3 years we have seen steady growth of interest and membership for Leeds Hackspace.

The problems that have prevented people signing up for members has typically not been the name of the non-profit, it has been other issues that volunteers have steadfastly worked on to amend. From insurance, to door card access and a larger everything. The common problem that I hear about is how much it is for what people get out of it, and that is an entirely different discussion.

If we're not sure what people think about the term Hackspace, then we should be putting out surveys. Currently in advertising and marketing what we do, anyway, we don't currently do a number of what might be common habits for groups, putting up small cards in local businesses or supermarkets, an advert in the local Yorkshire newspaper, etc. A lot of it has mostly been online, and that message shouldn't be the same in all places, every time.

Making and makerspace has its own connotations and it must be an inviting term, that's how and why make.com and make magazine are managing to turn it into a business, however they appear to be attempting to make it sustainable and they're obviously branching out into other terms and areas and attempting to develop it. So are other commercial entities.

This is a discussion that has needed to happen, either way.

[Andy Cook]

Lots of words of wisdom Stanto in your last couple of posts. It's definitely something that needs discussed and voted on sooner then later. If we can wangle both terms in then great. It's not the directors decision it's a members decision that everyone should have a say in in line with how we propose and second suggestions. I'm conscious there are some very impassioned views on using hackspace from the founder members.

Maybe the workshop area can be the maker space? I dunno just need to get both terms in the mix. I think we should just rename it "geek club" :-)

[Matt Dyson (CuppaMatt)]

Nerd Allotment

[Stanto]

That sounds like something that should be a thing.

All the tasty vegetables and fruit.

On Thursday, 21 July 2016 10:48:19 UTC+1, Matt Dyson (CuppaMatt) wrote:

Nerd Allotment

[Andy Cook]

Aquaponics = nerd allotment.

We should have an hydroponics wall!

[Aidan Dunbar]

We should have an hydroponics wall!

I am pro this.

On 21 July 2016 at 12:26, Andy Cook <onlyha...@gmail.com> wrote:

Aquaponics = nerd allotment.

We should have an hydroponics wall!

[J C]

Ditto. It's something I'd considered suggesting before for when we moved to a bigger space than forgotten it.

[Andy Cook]

Does Fligg know anything about hydroponics... 😜

[Daniel Fligg]

I'm sure something could be arranged, little herb garden maybe?

On 21 Jul 2016 13:53, "Andy Cook" <onlyha...@gmail.com> wrote:

Does Fligg know anything about hydroponics... 😜

[J C]

Fresh strawberries all year round?

[Andy51055]

Hydroponics - excellent idea.

Meanwhile, on the Makerspace/Hackspace naming debate, I've been giving it a fair bit of thought due to having to explain to various workmen and neighbours what the new space is going to be. And I've concluded that if we simply combine the two names we will eliminate any potential confusion and massively increase interest in the space from the general public. So welcome to Leeds Mackspace! ;)

[YouMustBe Joking]

Yorkshire Mac User Group suddenly gets interested :)

On Thursday, 21 July 2016, Andy51055 <you...@51055.com> wrote:

Hydroponics - excellent idea.

Meanwhile, on the Makerspace/Hackspace naming debate, I've been giving it a fair bit of thought due to having to explain to various workmen and neighbours what the new space is going to be. And I've concluded that if we simply combine the two names we will eliminate any potential confusion and massively increase interest in the space from the general public. So welcome to Leeds Mackspace! ;)

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[Gary Mulder]

On 21 July 2016 at 12:28, 'Aidan Dunbar' via Leeds Hack Space <leeds-ha...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

We should have an hydroponics wall!

 

Hi guys. Just joined.

Check out my house plant temps online for the last day here: http://www.nhivu.co.uk/temp.png

Sources are a Sensordrone and Flower Power over BLE.

Gary

[Stanto]

Not to be mistaken with Mackem's whom are people from Sunderland.

[Angus Taggart]

huh I always thought names ended up as leeds smackface after a mashup

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[Samwise Wilson]

Fonts adopted, colours:

Attached is a png

The main blue here is pretty decent both color-wise and use wise. Any luma matched colour to that blue will work well (and shown as alts on the png).

[Andy51055]

Of course you have to take into account the psychology of colour when choosing the secondary/complementary colours. You can't just choose any colour with the same luminosity and expect people to react the same way to the combination.
Which is why I'm a bit worried about using scarlet as the main secondary colour with its connotations of force of will, extrovertion, offensive-aggressive, autonomous, active, driven, competitive, operative, and representing desire, excitability, domination and sexuality. I'm not sure that those are the main directions Hackspace wants to be going.
I may be wrong, but if so this is a very different group from what it appears to be ;)

[Stanto]

Use of red is peculiar, and it would work as a highlighting colour.

Red is usually used to depict danger, though, and ideally, red in the hackspace to be associated with stop buttons and the like.

[Samwise Wilson]

I would hope that most people can tell the difference between a red table leg and a stop button.

The red is included as a highlight colour, it doesn't *have* to be used.

It's actually included here because it's an exact match for the make: red. (A pretty standard red) - and works well for certain elements with the other colours listed.

I am not worried about the phycological aspect, as the main logo does not include the red, it's pretty much always going to blue anyway (circular discussion vs other backspace colours / user of the H at all) and we are not doing a phycological litmus with colour like we did with the main font... where it's much more obvious. (Very easy for a typeface to look too computer-y / uninviting. Alex did a great job nailing down the font that everyone has pretty much universally liked as the logo.)

However colour is all about application and pairing. We don't have to use the red where we do not want too! But it serves a purpose and is there.

[Stanto]

I would hope they could, too, or that they don't use a table leg as a stop button.

;)

Looks good.

[Samwise Wilson]

Ironically I think the machine saw has a stable leg holding its stop button! 

[Samwise Wilson]

Heres a better laid out version with extra luma matched might like to use. Remember the hackspace "brand" is about being a hackspace! Tools, equipment, knowledge, tinkering, making, hacking... These are just "things we like" to encourage people to "do hackspace stuff".

Again I would say the logo font is a massive win! 

[Christopher Stanton]

So good. Unnngh.

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[Andy51055]

Can someone update the Hackers symbol that Stanto and others have so that the colour matches the new one please?

[Aidan Dunbar]

Twitter has been updated to current.

A

On Aug 26, 2016, at 16:40, Andy51055 <you...@51055.com> wrote:

Can someone update the Hackers symbol that Stanto and others have so that the colour matches the new one please?

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[Alex Silcock]

I'd like us to slim down on the number of different font choices - making all of the different Cairo weights available means it'll be hard to get consistency. I'm also not keen on having the "H" without the circle, as the circle itself is an important part of the logo, and having two similar but different shapes will dilute our brand.

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[Samwise Wilson]

I agree with the H without circle being discouraged. There are some applications where it has to be used (shrinkable headers are an example to save as much height as possible).

Also agree with Cairo being a set weight. It makes sense to do that and makes it simpler. Win win!

[Samwise Wilson]

[Alex Silcock]

I disagree about the H without the circle - I can't think of a situation where we wouldn't have enough space to include the whole circular logo, or where we couldn't modify the design slightly so that we can incorporate the full logo.

For print-friendliness, we should keep the main glyph (H in a circle) and just use black-and-white or grayscale when needed.

If we're happy with colours and fonts then I'll produce a set of logos in various sizes suitable for various forms of media, and get everything updated on the wiki.

On 26 August 2016 at 17:25, Samwise Wilson <s...@swwils.com> wrote:

I agree with the H without circle being discouraged. There are some applications where it has to be used (shrinkable headers are an example to save as much height as possible).

Also agree with Cairo being a set weight. It makes sense to do that and makes it simpler. Win win!

[Stanto]

Facebook, Google plus, etc will also require an update

[Alex Silcock]

When the external sites are updated, can we get all the names consistent too (to "Leeds Hackspace")?

On 26 August 2016 at 20:59, Stanto <sta...@gmail.com> wrote:

Facebook, Google plus, etc will also require an update

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[Christopher Stanton]

Which sites currently aren't?

[Alex Silcock]

Facebook isn't, and I'm sure there's another one that I've seen in the past too, but I can't find it now. It was fairly obscure though IIRC.

[Samwise Wilson]

I think this is all fairly set now?

We literally set it in stone (well acrylic) by cutting out the new font. It does look cool!

I believe Alex is making a big "how do" file that will neaten it all up and we should start it appearing in places for all your hackery needs.

Always, expect it to change but hopefully not too much!