Zeitangaben

[Steve MASSARD]

Hallo,

Tolle wäre es wenn man die Touren inklusive "Zeitangaben/Uhrzeiten" planen könnten.

Ist so was in Planung?

MfG

M.S.

[Manfred Frommel]

Was meinst Du damit?

https://goo.gl/Wbf5Os

Links auf der Seite steht:
=======================
Entfernung:            26,47 Km
Ungefähre Dauer:   30 min
Höhenmeter:          309m 337m
=======================

Die Zeit hängt natürlich auch von Deinem Fahrsiel ab ;-)

Gruß
Manfred

[Robin]

Ich glaube es geht darum zu sagen, dass man z.B. an einem Samstag fahren möchte. Dadurch sind andere Straßen geöffnet/gesperrt wie z.B. an Montagen? Kurviger kann aktuell leider keine Zeit Abhängigkeiten, das ist aber für eine zukünftige Version geplant.

> Die Zeit hängt natürlich auch von Deinem Fahrsiel ab ;-)

Um die Dauer zu schaffen, sollte man normalerweise nicht trödeln, das ganze ist nicht gerade Cruiser freundlich gestaltet ;).

Lg Robin

[Steve MASSARD]

Hallo,

Beides wäre super!

Bisher haben wir immer den motoplaner.de genutzt. Da kann man Wegpunkte zur durchfahrt setzen oder als "zwischenziel" (z.b. zur Einkehr, Wanderung, usw.)
Da kann man dann auch die geplante Aufenthaltsdauer festlegen und behält so den Ablauf einer Tour im Blick.

MfG

[Robin]

Hi,

jetzt verstehe ich um was es geht :). Ja dieses Feature wird ab und zu mal angefragt. Ich tu mir bei diesem Feature nur immer etwas schwer. Die ganze Idee ist, dass man z.b. 2 Stunden Pause einstellen kann und die Gesamtzeit wird dann einfach um 2 Stunden erhöht? Ändert sich dadurch am GPX oder der Route was?

Ich versuche Kurviger möglichst einfach zu halten, ohne viel "Schnick-Schnack". Bin mir bei sowas immer nicht so sicher ob das den Planer nicht unnötig kompliziert macht? Sorry, dass ich bei solchen Funktionen immer erst mal Skeptisch bin ;).

Lg Robin

[Christian Fenzl]

Ich vermisse auch Zeitangaben, erstmal primär auf der Webseite beim Planen.

Es gibt zwar Abbiegehinweise, die enorm umfangreich sind. Dabei sieht man aber nicht die Gesamtzeit bis zu den einzelnen Wegpunkten.

Was ich mir wünschen würde, ist, dass man zumindest irgendwo (und wenn es in den Abbiegehinweisen ist) sehen kann, wie lange ich insgesamt von Start bis Punkt 1, Punkt 1 bis Punkt 2 usw. brauchen werde.

Dass jeder anders fährt, ist klar, aber dann hat man gleich einen Richtwert.

Beste Grüße,

Christian

[Uli LH]

Wenn ich das Anliegen hier richtig verstanden habe:

TyreToTravel kann sowas, also auch Zwischenzeiten und Zwischen-km-Angaben - das wäre durchaus eine nützliche Erweiterung zum Planen, gerade zum Erstellen von Roadbooks für Biker- oder Raodster-Gruppen.

Dabei kann man in Tyre vorher einstellen, ob man die Tour eher gemütlich oder eher rasch usw. fährt.

Diese Daten kann man aus Tyre exportieren.

(Wie man dann aus diesen Angaben ein echtes Roadbook zum Verteilen strickt (wozu man allerdings bisher zusätzlich eine rechnende MS-Excel-Tabelle benötigt, die ich mal programmiert habe), könntet ihr von der Idee her mal man in meinem Barchetta-Blog.de unter
- http://leinhos-heinke.de/tourenplanung.html
nachlesen, dort gibt es auch die Excel-Tabelle zum Download mit Beispeil. Frage dazu beantworte ich gerne!)

Sowas dann komplett direkt in Kurviger.de integriert, oder zumindestens eine fertige Export-Schnittstelle z.B. zu EXCEL, wäre, auch gegenüber Tyre oder gar Calimoto, ein tolles Alleinstelungsmerkmal! :)

[Robin]

Hi Christian,

das mit den Zeitangaben ist eine gute Idee. Das in die Abbiegehinweise einzubauen sollte funktionieren. Das kommt auf unsere ToDo Liste. 

Hi Uli,

also das Roadbook kann man recht einfach aus Kurviger exportieren, einfach kopieren und in Excel einfügen :). Einfach auf Export Roadbook drücken, dann klappts. Man benötigt aber zwingend Microsoft Excel und nicht Libre Office oder so, ansonsten klappt es mit den Bildern nicht richtig.

Bräuchte man da jetzt noch mehr (außer der Änderung von Christian)?

Lg Robin

[Uli LH]

Am Donnerstag, 29. Juni 2017 11:54:35 UTC+2 schrieb Robin:

also das Roadbook kann man recht einfach aus Kurviger exportieren, einfach kopieren und in Excel einfügen :). Einfach auf Export Roadbook drücken, dann klappts.

Das muss ich erst mal verstehen: WO ist "Export Roadbook"? (Find' ich nicht - wir sprechen von der Browser-Version - oder? Sorry - bin ich blind??)

[Robin]

Hi Uli,

ok, ich geb zu es ist etwas versteckt ;). Du gehst auf Kurviger.de, planst eine Route, lässt dir die Abbiegehinweise anzeigen, dann steht ganz oben "Export Roadbook" (oder so ähnlich), da drauf klicken, dann geht ein neues Fenster mit den Abbiegehinweisen auf, diese sind für Copy/Paste nach Excel optimiert. Hoffe das hilft :).

Lg Robin

[Uli LH]

Yuppp - gefunden!! :) Erst mal: Super!

Damit kann man diese Tabelle in Excel übernehmen - aber: nicht weiter "rechnen", weil Zeitabstand, addierte Zeit und Entfernung in einem Feld sind (was vermutlich leicht zu ändern wäre?)

Tyre verwaltet diese Angaben in getrennten Feldern, sodass sich damit unter Excel rechnen lässt:

In meine gezeigte Excel-Tabelle übernommen lassen sich mit den Tyre-Daten
a) aus relativen Zeitangaben automatisch absolute, also Uhrzeiten machen (in Abhängigkeit von der Startzeit, natürlich),
b) Pausen verschiedener Länge einplanen (die Idee habe ich auch aus irgendeiner anderen Browser-gestützten Biker-Routenplaner-Software übernommen), die dann wiederum automatisch in die absoluten Uhrzeiten übernommen werden,
c) nicht nur reine Fahrtzeit (wie in Kurviger), sondern auch Gesamt-Tourzeit (mit Anfangs- und Enduhrzeit) automatisiert berechnen.

Auf diese Weise erhält man ein komplettes Roadbook mit Stationen und Uhrzeiten (das war das Thema des Eingasposts, oder?)


Idee: Wenn ihr die o.g. drei Angaben in der Tabelle auf drei verschiedene Spalten aufteilen würdet, würde ich wiederum meine Excel-Tabelle daran anpassen, dann gäbe es eine erste Lösung zum weitgehend automatischen Erstellen eines solchen Roadbooks.

Wie sowas dann ungefähr aussehen könnte (hier noch für Tyre!), sieht man in der angehängten Excel-(Screenshot-)Datei - diese Tabelle ist weitgehend automatisiert auf Grundlage der von Tyre exportierten Daten entstanden.
(Die 2. Spalte von links wäre unter Kurviger natürlich verzichtbar - hier war noch eine Schnittstelle zu Google Maps oder Stand alone-Navis verlangt, weil Tyre keine gute App anbietet.)

Vielleicht nützliche Idee?

[Robin]

Hi Uli und Christian,

also ich habe jetzt bei den Wegpunkten die Anzeige der gesamt Km+Zeit eingefügt, dadurch weiß man zwar nicht direkt wie viel Zeit zwischen jedem Wegpunkt vergeht, aber mit minimalem Rechenaufwand ( :) ) sollte das klappen. Ist das so wie du es dir vorgestellt hast Christian?

> Auf diese Weise erhält man ein komplettes Roadbook mit Stationen und Uhrzeiten (das war das Thema des Eingasposts, oder?)

Im Eingangspost gieng es so wie ich das verstanden habe darum, direkt auf Kurviger zu jedem Wegpunkt eine Pausezeit anzugeben, diese würde dann direkt auf die Gesamtzeit addiert werden.

> Damit kann man diese Tabelle in Excel übernehmen - aber: nicht weiter "rechnen", weil Zeitabstand, addierte Zeit und Entfernung in einem Feld sind (was vermutlich leicht zu ändern wäre?)

Jap :). Ich weiß gerade so spontan gar nicht wieso ich das nicht von Anfang an so gemacht habe? Egal, schaus dir mal an, sollte jetzt passen?

Lg Robin

[Uli LH]

Jaaa - schon viel besser verarbeitbar. Super! :)

Allerdings - wenn ich noch weiter Ratschläge geben darf:

Excel meckert, wenn die Zahlen keine reinen Zahlen sind, kann also z.B. mit "0.99km" oder "1min" erst mal nichts anfangen bzw. interpretiert sie als Text - wenn man mit den Daten weiter rechnen will, wäre es besser, wenn die Einträge ohne Maßeinheit sind (die kann ja nur im Spaltenkopf stehen).

Aus Tyre lässt sich eine *.CSV-Tabelle exportieren, die man dann direkt in Excel öffnen kann - die sieht so aus wie in dem Beispiel-Screenshot; darauf kann man dann direkt auch kompliziertere Excel-Funktionen anwenden.

[Emux]

Application shows total distance per route instruction too.

I can add total time per route instruction if concept is finalized.

And I can add export to CSV if you find it useful.
Was requested for desktop Cruiser, I could transfer it in Kurviger too.

--
Emux

[Emux]

Having the units on headers would require common units for all rows.

Like going with Meters and Seconds for all of them.

--
Emux

[Robin]

Hi Uli,

> Allerdings - wenn ich noch weiter Ratschläge geben darf

Darfst du und werden dankend angenommen. Da hab ich natürlich gar nicht dran gedacht. Werde ich dir die Tage anpassen.

Hi Emux,

> I can add total time per route instruction if concept is finalized.

From my side it is, let's wait what Christian tells us, but I think it should be fine.

> And I can add export to CSV if you find it useful.

Sure, if that's easy and fast, this would be a nice addition. Would be an App feature for now though ;).

Best,

Robin

[Robin]

Hi Emux,

> Like going with Meters and Seconds for all of them.

Yes exactly, but only for the export not for the regular turn instruction. I think it should be straightforward to convert it to reasonable units in Excel.

Best,

Robin

[Christian Fenzl]

Mir gefällt's! Danke dir!

[Uli LH]

(Sorry for talking German before!)

CSV-Export would be very useful for ME - as I am quite familiar with Excel and use it for many different purposes. So I would appreciate that and would offer my Excel sheet for automatical design of roadbooks for groups with absolute times and some other features.

But of course this might not be first priority for most of the users here.

Anyway thank you for following these ideas here so immediately! :)

[Robin]

Hi Uli,

ok, I removed the format now for the export. This means that distance is meter, time is seconds. The table head will be updated later today. Hoffe jetzt passt alles :)?

Lg Robin

[Uli LH]

Hi Robin,

at first I want to send again a BIG compliment for reacting so quickly! YOU ARE GREAT! ;)

Yes, it's a big step to create complete roadbooks with time planning for groups. :)


Again a small question resp. hint:

The CSV export is only part of the app up to now, not of the browser version, or?

Because MS Excel is usually running not on the smartphone and the CSV is likely used in Excel on the pc, it may be another step to integrate the CSV export in the browser version too?

Best
Uli

[Uli LH]

Yes, just imported a first CSV into Excel successfully and just adapting it to my master table for designing roadbooks including time plans.

Will show an example asap.

Question: 

The CSV export function is not included in the browser version yet - am I right?

[Robin]

Hi Uli,

as I wrote earlier:

> > And I can add export to CSV if you find it useful.

> Sure, if that's easy and fast, this would be a nice addition. Would be an App feature for now though ;).

Right now I don't have a mechanism to export CSVs in the web version. It was easy to add it to the app, so we added it there, I understand that it would be very useful in the browser as well. Is there a reason why copy/paste does not work for you? In theory it should be possible to add it to the browser version as well, but I would assume that it would take quite some time as I don't have the mechanisms built in yet. So unless there is a good reason not to use copy/paste I would like to avoid the overhead :).

Best,

Robin

[Uli LH]

Hi Robin,

handling a CSV is a bit easier (row and column size has not to be arranged at example) than using copy&paste.

BUT: What you said is a good reason NOT to invest the efforts on your side!

All is fine as it is - and a big THANK YOU!!

Best,

Uli

[Uli LH]

Ok, I just tried to arrange my calculating Excel worksheet for Kurviger data input:

It looks like in the following screenshot.

You may:

1. copy& paste the Kurviger export data (or open the CSV file) in the worksheet,

2. decide when to start the route (time of day like 9:00 am),

3. decide at which waypoint(s) to have breaks and how long every one will be,

4. decide about the interval to which to round up the starting times after every break (at example 15 minutes, i.e. every time will be given rounded up to every 15 minutes)).

Then the worksheet tells you:

a) some basic data like expected end of the route and some other (lokk at the header of the worksheet),

b) the rounded up starting time after every break (which means, up to which time of the day everyone of the group or any latecomers have to arrive at this waypoint to join the group).

I can send the master Excel worksheet by email to everyone, who is interested.

Any suggestions for changes of the calculating worksheet are welcome!

Uli

[Uli LH]

[Robin]

Hi Uli,

thank you very much for the excellent post. I just tried to convert it into a Wiki entry. I hope this is OK for you? Could you check if the content is OK and if I linked to the correct worksheet. Feel free to modify the entry as you like. In the end I will also create a German translation, once we fixed the content and link it in the Wiki accordingly.

Best,

Robin

On Wednesday, July 5, 2017 at 10:33:43 PM UTC+2, Uli LH wrote:

[Uli LH]

Hi Robin,

thx for the compliment ;) I just try to give back a part of the huge gain I got by Kurviger the last weeks - it's a great work you are doing and it's an excellent software!

Of course it's ok for me - and I just started to prepare some more explanations what's the purpose of this table is and when and how to use it.

Will take a bit of time .... ;)

[Uli LH]

Why and how to use the computing MS Excel worksheet in combination with Kurviger?

Imagine the following situation:

You are planning a long day's route in a bigger group, let's say, from starting in South Germany near Füssen, crossing Austria and Italy by famous passes and ending near Bozen in South Tyrol (in the example at the Hotel Castel Latemar in the region of Bozen, well known to bikers)!

Problem is, that you know already, that the group will not ride ...
(in my case, with the roadster: drive, but this doesn't make any difference, so I go on calling it "ride")
... the whole route in a "corso" (parade, all members in a line):
Different members of the group ride their own style and velocity, some prefer to ride hard, some prefer to have more stops for taking pictures (or for "liquid emission") and so on.
And  additionally you know, that there will some Austrian friends will join the group only after the coffee break, and some others even after the lunch break, and so on.
So what you need is a Road Book, that not only gives the route, the waypoints and places of breaks, but also realistic (!) points in time, when all these latecomers will reliably catch the group.
That's where the table comes into play.

(First it may sound complicated, but once or twice done, it's quite easy to apply! Of course being a bit familiar with Excel may help, but is not really necessary.)

1. At first you plan the route by Kurviger of course by fixing waypoints as usual.
2. On the route you decide which waypoints will be places to have common breaks and which will be meeting points for the latecomers until a certain point of time.
3. You export this Kurviger route by the Kurviger export function as a CSV-file (Kurviger app) or by copy&paste (Kurviger browser version, by "Abbiegehinweise - Export Road Book").
4. You paste the CSV or the copied table into the offered Excel worksheet (best after right click by the Excel paste option "nur Daten - an Zielformatierung anpassen" to avoid importing problems like with the symbols), that means the 5 columns "II Beschreibung" to " VI Gesamt-Zeit". -
The worksheet will now compute automatically the columns VII-X as follows: the distances into the usual unit Kilometers and the times into Hours:Minutes.
6. Now you should decide at which day time you will start the trip, let's say 9:00 a clock (this time you have to enter in the red indicated field in the header of the worksheet.) -
The worksheet will now calculate the absolute day times for every waypoint instead of relative times, shown in the column XI.
7. Next you have to decide, how long the planned breaks will be, at example 0:30 Hours:Minutes for 2-3 coffee breaks during the trip and 1:30 Hours:Minutes for the lunch break, and insert every time periods for every planned break into the (red) column "XII Pausen" into the matching rows, at example "Zwischenziele" 5, 10, 12 (you may vary the length of the breaks with a look to the calculated total duration resp. the arrival time of the planned trip in the header of the worksheet, see below!) -
The worksheet will now calculate the day time for every waypoint depending from the starting time and all breaks before (columns XIII and XIV, which are usually hidden, because they are only calculating columns.)
(8. Because you usually round up the times for meeting time points, you may enter the interval for up rounding  in the header in the field indicated orange, if you want to change the value preset to 0:15 hours, every value is possible.)

(You MAY insert additional values in the fields "Name of the route", "file name", "Version" and "Date of version, but they are not necessary for the computed parts of the worksheet, although they may be helpful to keep the overview about several routes or versions or to archive them.)

9. NOW you find finally:
some main information in the header:
a) the total distance (in km, rounded up),
b) the arrival time (in Hour:Minute, rounded up),
c) the pure riding (driving) time,
d) the sum of planned breaks,
e) the total duration of the planned trip,

and
f) the intended additional information about the planned starting time of every meeting point in column XV!.

And NOW you may
- take the whole worksheet, or
- hide the rows and/or columns, which you don't need for the road book (in fact you only need the header and the columns II and XV in those rows of the waypoints which are intended as break and meeting points, see example in the screen shot,
and
- print it, or
- export it as a PDF file
and
- send it, together with the Kurviger GPX file, to all members of the group.

With this combined information, all members or latecomers of the trip group will have a chance to find again the group at fixed times and places (indeed provided that you all stay patient and wait at every meeting point until the departure time of the list!! :) )

(Questions and hits are always welcome!!)

[Screenshots following asap!]

[Uli LH]

[Uli LH]

Supplement:

Sometims you want to provie the members of the group wih more information, so they can see the distance and needed time from one "Zwischenziel" to the next and at which time they should pass a "Zwischenziel" at least to meet the group again in time at the end of the next planned break.

Of course the worksheet contains all that information; it's only a question which rows and columns you hide or show.
(Hiding or showing of rows and/or columns in excel is quite easy, if you know how to do.)

(By the way: The route showed as an example here we, i.e. a group of 8 Barchetta roadsters, drived really last weekend - which was for me a test of Kurviger V. 1.1.3 also - and it worked very well! :) And it was a very nice trip!!
Of course I can send the GPX as well as the Excel table to everyone by email, if interested)

[Uli LH]

[Emux]

Thanks Uli for all that work!

Could have also a spreadsheet English version?

--
Emux

[Robin]

Hi Uli,

thanks again for the great report! Sorry for my late reply, but I wanted to take the time to do this right.

I tried to add your new information as a usage example in the wiki. Having an English version of the spreadsheet would be nice, but that would be probably a lot of work ;).

Best,

Robin

[Robin]

So, jetzt habe ich den Text auch noch auf Deutsch übersetzt :)

[Uli LH]

Oh, I wanted to do this by myself asap ,,,, ;)

And of course translating the worksheet into English is not a great thing (as long as I would not have transform km to miles - or hours to centuries or so ) ... ;) - I will do as well asap, promised! :)

[Robin]

Thanks Uli :). Feel free to improve or update the Wiki as you like or where I might introduced an issue. 

[Uli LH]

Updating the wiki and my own website as well, I bnotieced, that I made a permanent mistake of wording: I mixed "Wegpunkt" and "Zwischenziel", but breaks are only planned at "Zwischenzielen", not at "Wegpunkten".

I already corrected this on my (German!) website and will do as well in the Kurviger Wiki - BUT: How do you translate "Zwischenziel" in Kurviger to English? "intermediate target"?

[Emux]

> How do you translate "Zwischenziel" in Kurviger to English? "intermediate target"?

Well the intermediate stops or when we place a yellow mark for changing the route, are what we mean "Via point".
In instructions so far appeared as "Stopover", but we change them to more common "Waypoint" term.

Note that from Kurviger 1.1.2 (see here):
"Waypoints are now "virtual": not participate in instructions & navigation guidance, to provide a more convenient user experience.
They still exist in route, so can drag / change / export them etc."

--
Emux

[Robin]

>  I mixed "Wegpunkt" and "Zwischenziel", but breaks are only planned at "Zwischenzielen", not at "Wegpunkten".

Yes sorry, I was already thinking forward :). Zwischenziel becomes Wegpunkt very soon. Right now in English we have stopover, but this will be changed to waypoint as well.

Best,

Robin

[Uli LH]

Oooops - this is even more irritating:

A "waypoint / Wegpunkt" is indicated as a yellow dot, but a "stopover / intermediate target / Zwischenziel" is shown a numbered balloon - or?

These are logically (and computatzional) different things too - or not???

[Emux]

On 10/07/2017 01:40 μμ, Uli LH wrote:

A "waypoint / Wegpunkt" is indicated as a yellow dot, but a "stopover / intermediate target / Zwischenziel" is shown a numbered balloon - or?

The yellow numbered markers are the waypoints, as set by user or via import process, before route calculation.

The yellow dots are different, they are the "turn instruction nodes" appearing after route calculation.
(also they can be turned on/off in settings)

--
Emux

[Uli LH]

Ok - that makes it more clear:

Then we have
"turn instruction nodes" (= in German "Abbiege-Hinweise", ok? Or another expression?)
and
"waypoints" = "Wegpunkte".

I will adapt my the Excel sheet qas well as the instructions to design a road book in the documentations to this wording, ok?

By the way: the Excel sheet is now in Germand and English, as proposed. :)

[Emux]

> "waypoints" = "Wegpunkte"

Correct.

> "turn instruction nodes" (= in German "Abbiege-Hinweise", ok? Or another expression?)

I think we have them as "Abbiege Punkte" in app.

Robin?

--
Emux

[Uli LH]

Correct: They are called "Abbiegepunkte".

My question concerns more the future wording, because Robin wrote "Zwischenziel becomes Wegpunkt very soon".

Up to now I distinguished between "Wegpunkt" and "Zwischenziel", according to recent Kurviger wording, and designing a rod book you use "Zwischenziele" for breaks only, of course.

But if you want to call "Zwischenziele" as "Wegpunkte" in future, you will have to plan breaks on "Wegpunkten" (which were indeed "Abbiegepunkte" up to presence).

Thas was the background of my remarks.

[Emux]

> But if you want to call "Zwischenziele" as "Wegpunkte" in future, you will have to plan breaks on "Wegpunkten" (which were indeed "Abbiegepunkte" up to presence).

Hmm why that?

"Abbiegepunkte" (turn instruction nodes) always are the points where a turn instruction appears.

"Wegpunkte" (waypoints) are the points where we may want a stop or to influence the route calculation (its shape).

They are not related, except that at waypoints, there may be turn instructions.
I think we nowhere mention the turn instructions nodes as waypoints?

e.g. if you open the Routing - Waypoints dialog, only the green+yellow+red markers appear.
The yellow circles appear in Routing - Route dialog, with the turn instructions list.

--
Emux

[Uli LH]

Hmmmmm - don't know yet where I got this from and don't find it again - perhaps only an older confusion of waypoints and instruction nodes in my mind? ;) SORRY! ;)

So we have at the presence:
"Zwischenziel" as terminus in the export data, when expoerted from kurviger.de,
but
"Wegpunkt", when exported as CSV by the app.

So I will use the double expression "Wegpunkt/Zwischenziel" in the German Excel sheet as well as in the German manuals, as long as this is the case and not standardized - ok?

(In English it is always only Waypoint - or?)

[Emux]

Having double expressions may not be a good idea, will confuse (and occupy more space).

Waypoints and Wegpunkte can be used everywhere - they should be.

If there are areas where we can improve more, then we can change them.

--
Emux

[Uli LH]

Accepted - on the one hand.

On the other hand if someone exports the CSV out of the app and inserts it in the Excel sheet, he/she will still find "Zwischenziel 1...n", and these are the only rows weher he/she will plan breaks.

So I will use the double expression in the Excel sheet as long as necessary, but in the documentation we may call it only "Wegpunkt / waypoint" -
is that ok for you?

[Emux]

> On the other hand if someone exports the CSV out of the app and inserts it in the Excel sheet, he/she will still find "Zwischenziel 1...n", and these are the only rows weher he/she will plan breaks.

And from the website now, the export has Zwischenziel 1..n in it.

That's current situation and the change we have in mind, should be active in server soon and will be Wegpunkt 1..n.

--
Emux

[Uli LH]

Ok! :)
Uli

[sky watcher]

hard good job, ULI !!!

[Uli LH]

Thx! :)